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D
I don't understand what you mean. By calling him "it" and "an entity" are you saying he is not a person but some other kind of living being?
Wikipedia defines person this way: "A person (plural: persons or people; from Latin: persona, meaning "mask")[1] is a human being, or an entity that has certain capacities or attributes associated with personhood, for example, in a particular moral or legal context.[2] Such capacities or attributes can include agency, self-awareness, a notion of the past and future, and the possession of rights and duties, among others."
The deinition I find concise is a being which posesses intelligence, rationality and consciousness. This definition still squares well with wikipedia.
The Holy Spirit has a Mind and Knowledge (intelligence)
And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God. (Romans 8:27)
For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God. (1Corinthians 2:11)
The Holy Spirit Reasons (rationality)
For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things; (Acts 15:28)
The Holy Spirit is Self-Aware (consciousness)
As they ministered to the Lord, and fasted, the Holy Ghost said, Separate me Barnabas and Saul for the work whereunto I have called them. (Acts 13:2)
This should be sufficient to prove that the Holy Spirit is a Person. I don't believe a person has to be made human. Angels are persons, but they are not human.
Wikipedia defines person this way: "A person (plural: persons or people; from Latin: persona, meaning "mask")[1] is a human being, or an entity that has certain capacities or attributes associated with personhood, for example, in a particular moral or legal context.[2] Such capacities or attributes can include agency, self-awareness, a notion of the past and future, and the possession of rights and duties, among others."
The deinition I find concise is a being which posesses intelligence, rationality and consciousness. This definition still squares well with wikipedia.
The Holy Spirit has a Mind and Knowledge (intelligence)
And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God. (Romans 8:27)
For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God. (1Corinthians 2:11)
The Holy Spirit Reasons (rationality)
For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things; (Acts 15:28)
The Holy Spirit is Self-Aware (consciousness)
As they ministered to the Lord, and fasted, the Holy Ghost said, Separate me Barnabas and Saul for the work whereunto I have called them. (Acts 13:2)
This should be sufficient to prove that the Holy Spirit is a Person. I don't believe a person has to be made human. Angels are persons, but they are not human.
Daley how many PERSONS are the Holy Spirit? ONE! And if he is in 5000 men what then? Is he not STILL ONE person? One Spirit one soul ONE MAN!
Check out this Scripture and you will see the Holy Spirit is ONE Spirit and ONE SOUL in 5000 bodies on this day....
Acts 4:4... Howbeit many of them which heard the word believed; and the number of the men was about five thousand.
And then this happened .... Acts 4:31 and 32... And when they had prayed, the place was shaken where they were assembled together; and they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and they spake the word of God with boldness.
Act 4:32 And the multitude of them that believed were of one heart and of one soul:
Then to get the real miricle of this Eph 4 says.... here is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; Eph 4:5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism, Eph 4:6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all. Now that is the Holy Spirit as FATHER GOD IN US.... WOW!!!!
Check out this Scripture and you will see the Holy Spirit is ONE Spirit and ONE SOUL in 5000 bodies on this day....
Acts 4:4... Howbeit many of them which heard the word believed; and the number of the men was about five thousand.
And then this happened .... Acts 4:31 and 32... And when they had prayed, the place was shaken where they were assembled together; and they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and they spake the word of God with boldness.
Act 4:32 And the multitude of them that believed were of one heart and of one soul:
Then to get the real miricle of this Eph 4 says.... here is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; Eph 4:5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism, Eph 4:6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all. Now that is the Holy Spirit as FATHER GOD IN US.... WOW!!!!
hello there,
I see Holy Spirit as one person of God Trinity...
My logic is "Holy Spirit have a personality, therefore he is a person"
Holy Spirit speaks (specific messages, like a person)
1 Tim 4,1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the …..
Holy Spirit have characteristics like person have characteristics. We should keep in mind that Holy Spirit is same as Spirit of Christ or God Spirit (Lord Spirit)– same in those personal characteristics, same in the manifestation… or at least I see them as one
So Holy Spirit (spirit of Christ or/and God) .. we can recognize by
Liberty > Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. 2 Cor 3, 17
Glory > If ye be reproached for the name of Christ, happy are ye; for the spirit of glory and of God resteth upon you: on their part he is evil spoken of, but on your part he is glorified. 1 Pet. 4, 14
Grace > And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn Zach. 12, 10
Power, love and sound mind > For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind 2 Tim 1, 7
Truth > We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, …. 1 John 4, 6
Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. John 16, 13
Counsel, might, wisdom, understanding, knowledge and fear > And the spirit of the Lord shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the Lord Isaiah 11, 2
That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him: Eph 1, 17
Good > Teach me to do thy will; for thou art my God: thy spirit is good; lead me into the land of uprightness.
Psalms 143, 10
Judgment and strength > And for a spirit of judgment to him that sitteth in judgment, and for strength to them that turn the battle to the gate. Isaiah 28, 6 (in here Isaiah actually talking about God, but, I think its usable for HS too)
These are those personals characteristics. I mean characteristics of Holy Spirit.
That's the way how I see it.
sorry for en
be blessed
I see Holy Spirit as one person of God Trinity...
My logic is "Holy Spirit have a personality, therefore he is a person"
Holy Spirit speaks (specific messages, like a person)
1 Tim 4,1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the …..
Holy Spirit have characteristics like person have characteristics. We should keep in mind that Holy Spirit is same as Spirit of Christ or God Spirit (Lord Spirit)– same in those personal characteristics, same in the manifestation… or at least I see them as one
So Holy Spirit (spirit of Christ or/and God) .. we can recognize by
Liberty > Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. 2 Cor 3, 17
Glory > If ye be reproached for the name of Christ, happy are ye; for the spirit of glory and of God resteth upon you: on their part he is evil spoken of, but on your part he is glorified. 1 Pet. 4, 14
Grace > And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn Zach. 12, 10
Power, love and sound mind > For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind 2 Tim 1, 7
Truth > We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, …. 1 John 4, 6
Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. John 16, 13
Counsel, might, wisdom, understanding, knowledge and fear > And the spirit of the Lord shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the Lord Isaiah 11, 2
That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him: Eph 1, 17
Good > Teach me to do thy will; for thou art my God: thy spirit is good; lead me into the land of uprightness.
Psalms 143, 10
Judgment and strength > And for a spirit of judgment to him that sitteth in judgment, and for strength to them that turn the battle to the gate. Isaiah 28, 6 (in here Isaiah actually talking about God, but, I think its usable for HS too)
These are those personals characteristics. I mean characteristics of Holy Spirit.
That's the way how I see it.
sorry for en
be blessed
D
Eph 4:4-6 doesn't say the Father is the Holy Spirit. It says there is one body and one Spirit, but that isn't saying the body of Christ is the Spirit; it also says there is one Lord and one baptism, but that doesn't mean the Lord is baptism itself. Similarly, it says there is one Spirit and one God and Father, but that doesn't mean the one Spirit is the Father.
John 14:26 says the Father SENDS the Holy Spirit, so the Spirit is another person from the Father.
Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is not forgiven, but blasphemy against the Son is forgiven, so the Spirit is not the Son either. (Matt 12:31-32)
So the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are three persons, but all of them are "IN' us. The Holy Spirit has the same ability as the Father to be everywhere at the same time because he is God, he is omnipresent. Three persons, one Being.
John 14:26 says the Father SENDS the Holy Spirit, so the Spirit is another person from the Father.
Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is not forgiven, but blasphemy against the Son is forgiven, so the Spirit is not the Son either. (Matt 12:31-32)
So the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are three persons, but all of them are "IN' us. The Holy Spirit has the same ability as the Father to be everywhere at the same time because he is God, he is omnipresent. Three persons, one Being.
When indoctrination talks, it says such things as: Father, Son and Holy Spirit are three persons.
Sometimes indoctrination is the worst wall to get through. Folks will defend it to the last.
If we say we believe in a trinity, then we are also saying that there is more than one spirit in the Godhead...
1) One spirit for Father
2) Another spirit for Holy Spirit
And, which implies that God did not see them other two persons, when he looked around and then said...
Isaiah 45:6 That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the LORD, and there is none else.
Isaiah 45:21 Tell ye, and bring them near; yea, let them take counsel together: who hath declared this from ancient time? who hath told it from that time? have not I the LORD? and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me.
John 14:8-9 Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us. Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?
John 8:24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.
John 8:27 They understood not that he spake to them of the Father.
In the Old Testament we know about the Tabernacle made of badger skins. It was not much to look at, but was inside that made all the difference. In housed the Eternal spirit, Yhwh. Now turning to the New Testament we read about a more perfect tabernacle...
Hebrews 9:11 But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building;
So then, is Jesus actually the Father manifested in the flesh?
1 Timothy 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.
Jesus said to the Jews that if you don't believe that I am "he", you will die in your sin. A few verses down we see that "he" is the father. Jesus is the father incarnate. He said to Philip that when you seen me you seen the father. Also in Isaiah 6:9 the son is the everlasting father.
Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
The above scripture (isaiah 9:6) says that the child born is both the father and the son (Prince of Peace).
The question is then asked, how can the son be the father incarnate? The spirit in the Old Testament, the spirit that spoke to Moses (the only spirit of God, because if we say you have two (2) spirits, one for father and one for Holy Spirit, then we have a serious problem). The spirit of God overshadowed Mary, she concieved a seed, and God, able to be everywhere simultaneously (omnipresent), both inhabits that seed and remains in heaven. She gives birth and we have spirit become flesh.
In discovering the Omnipresence of God, we read:
Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost. Then Joseph her husband, being a just man, and not willing to make her a publick example, was minded to put her away privily. But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost. And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins. Now all this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us. (Matthew 1:18-23)
Now, Jesus, being God in the flesh, is both man and God. As a man he hungered and thirsted and prayed. As a man he fasted for 40 days. As a man he shed that redeeming blood for us. Now, as God he did miracles and forgave sin. When Jesus prayed, this was his humanity praying to his deity (don't we also claim to have the Holy Spirit and don't we pray to God, whom by-the-way is in us. We read in 1Corinthians 3:16 "Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?") After his time on earth, paying the sin debt and reconciling the world unto himself, by way of the cross, he must leave so that he may return as the Comforter (the Holy Ghost) which will guide us into all truth. But through all of this, he remained that one God that can be in all places simultaneously and take on any form that he chooses, even the form of a burning bush while talking to Moses.
The omnipresence of God has him both coming out of the water at the baptism of John, and simultaneously descending like a dove (which was a sign unto John), while speaking from heaven in Matthew 3:17, which was a perfect example of how our one true God can multitask. God does not jump out of one person in Mexico to go and jump into another saved person in France, He is in all saved people at the same time, and was in all three places at that baptism while still being the one omnipresent Spirit who is in heaven.
In John 3:13 we have Jesus essentially saying to Nicodemus, I am both in heaven and simultaneously standing right here talking with you...
And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven. (John 3:13)
God bless!
Endtimes
Sometimes indoctrination is the worst wall to get through. Folks will defend it to the last.
If we say we believe in a trinity, then we are also saying that there is more than one spirit in the Godhead...
1) One spirit for Father
2) Another spirit for Holy Spirit
And, which implies that God did not see them other two persons, when he looked around and then said...
Isaiah 45:6 That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the LORD, and there is none else.
Isaiah 45:21 Tell ye, and bring them near; yea, let them take counsel together: who hath declared this from ancient time? who hath told it from that time? have not I the LORD? and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me.
John 14:8-9 Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us. Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?
John 8:24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.
John 8:27 They understood not that he spake to them of the Father.
In the Old Testament we know about the Tabernacle made of badger skins. It was not much to look at, but was inside that made all the difference. In housed the Eternal spirit, Yhwh. Now turning to the New Testament we read about a more perfect tabernacle...
Hebrews 9:11 But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building;
So then, is Jesus actually the Father manifested in the flesh?
1 Timothy 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.
Jesus said to the Jews that if you don't believe that I am "he", you will die in your sin. A few verses down we see that "he" is the father. Jesus is the father incarnate. He said to Philip that when you seen me you seen the father. Also in Isaiah 6:9 the son is the everlasting father.
Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
The above scripture (isaiah 9:6) says that the child born is both the father and the son (Prince of Peace).
The question is then asked, how can the son be the father incarnate? The spirit in the Old Testament, the spirit that spoke to Moses (the only spirit of God, because if we say you have two (2) spirits, one for father and one for Holy Spirit, then we have a serious problem). The spirit of God overshadowed Mary, she concieved a seed, and God, able to be everywhere simultaneously (omnipresent), both inhabits that seed and remains in heaven. She gives birth and we have spirit become flesh.
In discovering the Omnipresence of God, we read:
Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost. Then Joseph her husband, being a just man, and not willing to make her a publick example, was minded to put her away privily. But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost. And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins. Now all this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us. (Matthew 1:18-23)
Now, Jesus, being God in the flesh, is both man and God. As a man he hungered and thirsted and prayed. As a man he fasted for 40 days. As a man he shed that redeeming blood for us. Now, as God he did miracles and forgave sin. When Jesus prayed, this was his humanity praying to his deity (don't we also claim to have the Holy Spirit and don't we pray to God, whom by-the-way is in us. We read in 1Corinthians 3:16 "Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?") After his time on earth, paying the sin debt and reconciling the world unto himself, by way of the cross, he must leave so that he may return as the Comforter (the Holy Ghost) which will guide us into all truth. But through all of this, he remained that one God that can be in all places simultaneously and take on any form that he chooses, even the form of a burning bush while talking to Moses.
The omnipresence of God has him both coming out of the water at the baptism of John, and simultaneously descending like a dove (which was a sign unto John), while speaking from heaven in Matthew 3:17, which was a perfect example of how our one true God can multitask. God does not jump out of one person in Mexico to go and jump into another saved person in France, He is in all saved people at the same time, and was in all three places at that baptism while still being the one omnipresent Spirit who is in heaven.
In John 3:13 we have Jesus essentially saying to Nicodemus, I am both in heaven and simultaneously standing right here talking with you...
And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven. (John 3:13)
God bless!
Endtimes
D
The triune God is speaking in Isaiah 45:21, and when he looked around he (or shall I say "they") saw no one else. The reason why the Son can speak in exclusive terms as if he were the entire trinity is because he is part of the same being as the Father and the Holy Spirit. One can speak on behalf of all.
God is not three spirits. He is just one omnipresent Spirit, but with three minds or centers of consciousness. So they are three individual persons, but only one Spirit.
Now Jesus says blasphemy against the Son will be forgiven, but not against the Spirit. (Matt 12:31-32) This makes no sense unless Jesus and the Holy Spirit are two separate persons. Neither does it make sense to claim this is a matter of his divinity versus his humanity, because then we would have to interpret the word "Son" as a reference to his humanity, when claiming to be the Son of the Father is the very thing that indicated his deity, and that's why the Jews wanted to kill him. (John 5:18)
Yes, we can pray to the Holy Spirit who is within us, that doesn't mean we are talking to ourselves. But to say that the human Jesus was praying to his own divinity would be saying that Jesus was praying to himself. This is ridiculous.
In John 5:30 Jesus said he did not come to do his own will, but the will of his Father. Now if Jesus is the Father, would not the Father's will be his will? If Jesus is the Father, and is come to do the Father's will, is he not come to do his own will? That would be like saying, this was the Father in the flesh, claiming that he did not come to do his own will, but came to do his own will...??? Why would Jesus go through all this trouble to make his two natures seem like two different people when he could simply say "I have not come to obey my flesh, but rather my spirit"? Romans 8 is a good chapter that illustrates similar language about minding the flesh vesus minding the spirit.
Even long before Jesus took on human nature, John 1:1 says that the Word was WITH God, indicating two persons. How can one person be WITH himself?
At least you acknowledge that the Holy Spirit is a person. Amen to that.
God is not three spirits. He is just one omnipresent Spirit, but with three minds or centers of consciousness. So they are three individual persons, but only one Spirit.
Now Jesus says blasphemy against the Son will be forgiven, but not against the Spirit. (Matt 12:31-32) This makes no sense unless Jesus and the Holy Spirit are two separate persons. Neither does it make sense to claim this is a matter of his divinity versus his humanity, because then we would have to interpret the word "Son" as a reference to his humanity, when claiming to be the Son of the Father is the very thing that indicated his deity, and that's why the Jews wanted to kill him. (John 5:18)
Yes, we can pray to the Holy Spirit who is within us, that doesn't mean we are talking to ourselves. But to say that the human Jesus was praying to his own divinity would be saying that Jesus was praying to himself. This is ridiculous.
In John 5:30 Jesus said he did not come to do his own will, but the will of his Father. Now if Jesus is the Father, would not the Father's will be his will? If Jesus is the Father, and is come to do the Father's will, is he not come to do his own will? That would be like saying, this was the Father in the flesh, claiming that he did not come to do his own will, but came to do his own will...??? Why would Jesus go through all this trouble to make his two natures seem like two different people when he could simply say "I have not come to obey my flesh, but rather my spirit"? Romans 8 is a good chapter that illustrates similar language about minding the flesh vesus minding the spirit.
Even long before Jesus took on human nature, John 1:1 says that the Word was WITH God, indicating two persons. How can one person be WITH himself?
At least you acknowledge that the Holy Spirit is a person. Amen to that.
That's well said. I've struggled with anger issues with God (still dealing with them), but I've always felt bad when especially the Holy Spirit is neglected as a member of the Godhead. As great as the mystery is, God is in Three Persons with many more facets. In us, He illustrates this through our body, soul, spirit and the different parts of each one individually which still makes up one individual with three beings (or states of being) and many more parts within each of those three parts. It's a pretty cool mystery. Some Messianic Jews who've done a lot of research go further to say that the Hebrew and Aramaic show the Holy Spirit as female. Now, I'm not on board with that (though both male and female did come from one God); but I know that learning eternal mysteries (hidden, hard to comprehend) and things for all eternity... starts now. Isa. 6 is another good example of God as More Than One but still One: "Who shall I send, and who will go for Us?"
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