The Holy Spirit is God.

[Dutch41]

Hi Scott

Acts was generally attributed to Pauls travelling companion Luke (not apostle). I don't see how Luke has any credentials to make any call on what the Holy Spirit is. It is documented by many independent scholars that Paul's teaching did not match Jesus pbuh.

Bart D. Ehrman, perhaps the most authoritative living scholar of textual criticism, comments:

“Paul’s view was not universally accepted or, one might argue, even widely accepted …. Even more striking, Paul’s own letters indicate that there were outspoken, sincere, and active Christian leaders who vehemently disagreed with him on this score and considered Paul’s views to be a corruption of the true message of Christ …. One should always bear in mind that in this very letter of Galatians Paul indicates that he confronted Peter over just such issues (Gal. 2:11-14). He disagreed, that is, even with Jesus’ closest disciple on the matter.”

Ehrman, Bart D. 2003. Lost Christianities. Oxford University Press. Pp. 97-98.

Commenting on the views of some early Christians in the Pseudo-Clementine literature, Ehrman wrote:

“Paul has corrupted the true faith based on a brief vision, which he has doubtless misconstrued. Paul is thus the enemy of the apostles, not the chief of them. He is outside the true faith, a heretic to be banned, not an apostle to be followed.”

Ehrman, Bart D. 2003. Lost Christianities. Oxford University Press. P. 184.

Well first: I don't think that Ehrman is an authorithy in text critism. So for that I disagree with you.
The word apostle mean "one who send forth ".

I agree, that the message of Paul wan't fully accepted by all the Christians.. that is why the book of Act is written. But it was accepted by the 12 (Act 15)

But you don't have to made the mistake, that Paul and Peter disagree... in Gal 2:11-14. Actually.. Peter behaviour was hypcrite.. and that was why Paul got an argue with him.

First he eat with the gentils..(what was forbidden, but he did it before (Act 10-11)

Even Peter write in his letters about Paul.. that they had to listen and knowing what Paul write.. About his message.. And in this, he put the letters of Paul in the same as the Old Testament Scriptures. And he said this too: as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which there is something difficult to be understood; and which they who are ignorant and unstable, pervert, as they do also the rest of the scriptures, to their own destruction.

The writer Luc did an investigation..1 Forasmuch as many have taken in hand to set forth in order a declaration of those things which are most surely believed among us,
2 even as they were delivered unto us by those who from the beginning were eyewitnesses and ministers of the Word,
3 it seemed good to me also, having had perfect understanding of these things from the very first, to write unto thee in order, most excellent Theophilus,
4 that thou mightest know the certainty of those things wherein thou hast been instructed.

So in this case, Luc is very reliable.. (More as the hadith or the Quaran is )

 

[PBUH]

Since you are not a believer and not asking earnest questions about the true Christian faith, I will only engage you on a limited basis; but I initially feel compelled to address something regarding your posts in general.

You evidently think yourself well studied, but your understanding and usage of both the Hebrew and Greek language meanings and structures are extremely inadequate and often completely incorrect. Your above representation of "spirit" as "wind" is one such example of poor application.

Exegesis and eisegesis are diametrically opposed concepts of approaching the scriptural text. Your eisegetic mishandling of holy writ is fundamentally erroneous and wholly impugns your credibility. Superfluous and/or appropriated meanings are irrelavent; perception isn't reality. Scripture isn't a literary crowbar to wield in favor of whatever meaning someone wants to extract from scripture. One must receive FROM scripture, not superimpose UPON scripture.

Regardless what you do or don't believe, the language can't be "leveraged" to fit a view. It's not about what scripture CAN say if manipulated; it's about determining what is actually DOES say... inspired author TO intended recipients and FOR all audiences of all ages. Beyond actual etymology and syntax, there is then the issue of non-literal illustrative constructs. In Hebrew, the trees of the field didn't literally clap their hands. In English, it doesn't literally rain cats and dogs.

Instead of being an indoctrinated novice using language as a shotgun, you need to become personally proficient in these areas... or just put the gun down and let the trained marksmen shoot the target. If you can't give Strong's numbers and grammatical notations with appropriate commentary, stop "hacking" at the languages and pretending (both to yourself and others) to be an authority.

Hi PneumaPsucheSoma

Since you are not a believer and not asking earnest questions about the true Christian faith

I am a person earnestly searching for the truth. I am sorry if I am not good enough for your attention

You evidently think yourself well studied

I don't remember stating any such fact. I am searching for the truth.

So are you saying the word of God that attracted the poor and the sinners you need a degree in theology to understand ?

Nice smoke and mirrors but you actually did not state anything. The wind of God is the term used in later translations of the bible. It is not my translation. So you can stop the personal attacks on my credibility. I would assume that people who are knowledgeable in Hebrew than you and I would have written this ?

 

[Scotth1960]

Hi PneumaPsucheSoma



I am a person earnestly searching for the truth. I am sorry if I am not good enough for your attention



I don't remember stating any such fact. I am searching for the truth.

So are you saying the word of God that attracted the poor and the sinners you need a degree in theology to understand ?

Nice smoke and mirrors but you actually did not state anything. The wind of God is the term used in later translations of the bible. It is not my translation. So you can stop the personal attacks on my credibility. I would assume that people who are knowledgeable in Hebrew than you and I would have written this ?

Dear PBUH, If you are searching for the truth, then you are searching for Jesus Christ, for JESUS CHRIST IS THE TRUTH. "Jesus said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me". JOHN 14:6 NASB.

That much is clear. To deny that Christ is to make Christ a liar, and no prophet of God. To accept Him as a prophet of God, one must accept that He said He is God. Christ said, "Before Abraham was, I AM".
He also said, "Except you believe that I AM He, you shall die in your sins." Therefore the Pharisees sought to stone Him, because He, a man, made Himself equal with God. In Erie Scott

 

[PBUH]

Dear PBUH, If you are searching for the truth, then you are searching for Jesus Christ, for JESUS CHRIST IS THE TRUTH. "Jesus said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me". JOHN 14:6 NASB.

That much is clear. To deny that Christ is to make Christ a liar, and no prophet of God. To accept Him as a prophet of God, one must accept that He said He is God. Christ said, "Before Abraham was, I AM".
He also said, "Except you believe that I AM He, you shall die in your sins." Therefore the Pharisees sought to stone Him, because He, a man, made Himself equal with God. In Erie Scott

Hi Scott

Of course I believe we need to follow all the example of Jesus pbub. Unfortunately the example of Paul is followed.

How, then, is one to assess the overall impact of Muhammad on human history? Like all religions, Islam exerts an enormous influence upon the lives of its followers. It is for this reason that the founders of the world's great religions all figure prominently in this book. Since there are roughly twice as many Christians as Moslems in the world, it may initially seem strange that Muhammad has been ranked higher than Jesus. There are two principal reasons for that decision. First, Muhammad played a far more important role in the development of Islam than Jesus did in the development of Christianity. Although Jesus was responsible for the main ethical and moral precepts of Christianity (insofar as these differed from Judaism), St. Paul was the main developer of Christian theology, its principal proselytizer, and the author of a large portion of the New Testament. Muhammad, however, was responsible for both the theology of Islam and its main ethical and moral principles. In addition, he played the key role in proselytizing the new faith, and in establishing the religious practices of Islam. Moreover, he is the author of the Moslem holy scriptures, the Koran, a collection of certain of Muhammad's insights that he believed had been directly revealed to him by Allah. Most of these utterances were copied more or less faithfully during Muhammad's lifetime and were collected together in authoritative form not long after his death. The Koran therefore, closely represents Muhammad's ideas and teachings and to a considerable extent his exact words. No such detailed compilation of the teachings of Christ has survived. Since the Koran is at least as important to Moslems as the Bible is to Christians, the influence of Muhammad through the medium of the Koran has been enormous. It is probable that the relative influence of Muhammad on Islam has been larger than the combined influence of Jesus Christ and St. Paul on Christianity.

The 100, a Ranking of the Most Influential Persons in History
by Michael H. Hart

..... explaining why he did not rank Jesus pbuh higher as the most influential person in history. He stated Pauls influence is greater but Jesus pbuh appears higher than Paul only because he founded Christianity. The infiuence of Jesus pbuh on christians is not as strong as it should.

 

[PneumaPsucheSoma]

Hi PneumaPsucheSoma
I am a person earnestly searching for the truth.

No. If you were earnestly searching for THE truth, you would be finding the Lord Jesus Christ. He who seeks shall surely find (Matt. 7:7, Luke 11:9). Jesus IS truth (John 14:6, John 8:32). You are declaring and promoting A perceived deceived "truth" of superimposing an idolatrous god and prophet onto the one true God and Savior of holy scripture.

THE truth is that Islam is a henotheistic religion that has repackaged itself into monotheism and masqueraded as a parallel to the Hebrew Echad. As one of a pleroma of gods, Allah the moon god was chosen out of the many gods as the deity of the ancestral tribe of M---d. Ultimately, the remainder of the pleroma was ignored and Allah was presented as the one true God and equated to the YHVH of the OT.

Allah is a mythological god from a pantheon of many mythological gods, and all of them are idolatrous cultural substitutes for the true Deity of the one true Almighty God. Allah is no God, and no "prophet" of Allah is a prophet. There is no praise due the non-God Allah or the non-prophet M---d.

Even in henotheistic idolatry, Allah the moon god was only a reflective luminary of the sun god. There's intense irony there, since the Logos is the true light that lighteth the world. The best Allah the moon god's idolatrous followers can do is use the Word to try and deflect enough light to have something to shine.

You try to make the Father into Allah, the Parakletos into M---d, and Jesus into a subordinate prophet to M---d. You serve a mythological non-existent god that you have superimposed onto scripture, trying to draw the life that is the light of men... the Word.

You seek not THE truth; you seek to promote A wanna-be truth. Allah isn't just an over-exalted one-of-many god pretending to be God... Allah doesn't exist! And M---d was a false prophet of that non-existent pretend god. There is no praise due his name.

I am sorry if I am not good enough for your attention

I made no reference to comparative goodness between us or anyone else. You are not seeking or asking, you are declaring and promoting. It is virtually always a waste of time to deal such a one.

I don't remember stating any such fact. I am searching for the truth.

You didn't have to state it; it is your narrow insistence on marginal understandings as adamant truth that strongly implies this. You are NOT searching for THE truth at all. Allah is a fictional god among many fictional gods, and is NOT interchangeable for the one true and living God.

So are you saying the word of God that attracted the poor and the sinners you need a degree in theology to understand ?

No. So leave the deep theology and etymology to others 'til you respond to the Gospel by faith and abort your futile attempt to merge an imaginary god with the one true Living God.

Nice smoke and mirrors but you actually did not state anything. The wind of God is the term used in later translations of the bible. It is not my translation.

No smoke. No mirrors. The overwhelmingly universal primary meaning of Ruach (H7307) and Pneuma (G4151) is Spirit. It/they mean(s) to blow; of breath. It can mean anything which passes quickly, the air put in motion by divine breath. The most basic meaning is air in motion, and may be inhaled, exhaled, on the lips, in the nostrils, etc. Also used of the divine, miraculous power by which inanimate things move or are given vitality of life. The element of life in a person.

Can it mean wind or breeze or a few other related things in certain contexts? Yes. Is that the primary literal or metaphorical meaning? No, not in the least.

So you can stop the personal attacks on my credibility.

I'm not attacking; I'm refuting and debunking ignorance and contentious manipulation and posturing with pseudo-knowledge. You have no credibility. You promote a non-existent god and its false prophet as God and the Holy Spirit, whole subordinating Jesus Christ as secondary to this wish-I-was-a-wanna-be prophet.

I would assume that people who are knowledgeable in Hebrew than you and I would have written this ?

Your language research is abysmally lacking. You evidently assume many things... like that Allah exists.

 

[Dutch41]

Hi Scott

Of course I believe we need to follow all the example of Jesus pbub. Unfortunately the example of Paul is followed.

How, then, is one to assess the overall impact of Muhammad on human history? Like all religions, Islam exerts an enormous influence upon the lives of its followers. It is for this reason that the founders of the world's great religions all figure prominently in this book. Since there are roughly twice as many Christians as Moslems in the world, it may initially seem strange that Muhammad has been ranked higher than Jesus. There are two principal reasons for that decision. First, Muhammad played a far more important role in the development of Islam than Jesus did in the development of Christianity. Although Jesus was responsible for the main ethical and moral precepts of Christianity (insofar as these differed from Judaism), St. Paul was the main developer of Christian theology, its principal proselytizer, and the author of a large portion of the New Testament. Muhammad, however, was responsible for both the theology of Islam and its main ethical and moral principles. In addition, he played the key role in proselytizing the new faith, and in establishing the religious practices of Islam. Moreover, he is the author of the Moslem holy scriptures, the Koran, a collection of certain of Muhammad's insights that he believed had been directly revealed to him by Allah. Most of these utterances were copied more or less faithfully during Muhammad's lifetime and were collected together in authoritative form not long after his death. The Koran therefore, closely represents Muhammad's ideas and teachings and to a considerable extent his exact words. No such detailed compilation of the teachings of Christ has survived. Since the Koran is at least as important to Moslems as the Bible is to Christians, the influence of Muhammad through the medium of the Koran has been enormous. It is probable that the relative influence of Muhammad on Islam has been larger than the combined influence of Jesus Christ and St. Paul on Christianity.

The 100, a Ranking of the Most Influential Persons in History
by Michael H. Hart

..... explaining why he did not rank Jesus pbuh higher as the most influential person in history. He stated Pauls influence is greater but Jesus pbuh appears higher than Paul only because he founded Christianity. The infiuence of Jesus pbuh on christians is not as strong as it should.

I think you are right.. the influence of the koran and the muslims is more influence than the Jesus or the Bible.

Why??? Look at the M.E. Look at the fear from the Koran. Look at the fear for the extremist. Can I go further?

Yes,.. Look here in Europe.. about domestic violance.. in the life from woman. Look at the honour revange.

Is there more? The influence of the koran and Mohammed isn't possitive.

The teaching from Jesus,.. is love.. the teaching from Paul is love and forgiven.. The most powerful message. But it is difficult.. Because.. people don't want to be loved. Hate and self judging is always a better message.

During the dark ages.. the Catholic church, didn't tell the message of Love.. During the wars.. the church didn't tell the the message of Jesus. So,.. you are right... the influence from Islam is more, ...

But Micheal Hart said.. Mohammed is the author of the Koran. Well as Muslim, you know it isn't true. And who is Micheal Hart to say this? What is the really influence from the Bible at the society? And the Koran? In how many languages is the Koran translated..
And the Bible.. How many Christians are there? And how many muslims? What is the mission of Jesus.. what is it from Mohammed.. How many wonders can you find in the Koran about Jesus? And how many about Mohammed. How was the birth of Jesus? How was it from Mohammed...

But the topic isn't about influence.. it is about.. the Holy Spirit is He God, or is Gabriel.. called the holy Spirit.

For that.. we can compare the Bible with the Koran.. and I think it is really interesting.. to do it..
Or is the Gabriel from the islam a demon..
--

We can look:

The Biblei
In the Holy Gost is the name of YHWH.. (Heb 3)
7 Wherefore, even as the Holy Spirit saith, To-day if ye shall hear his voice,
8 Harden not your hearts, as in the provocation, Like as in the day of the trial in the wilderness,
9 Where your fathers tried me by proving me, And saw my works forty years.
10 Wherefore I was displeased with this generation, And said, They do always err in their heart: But they did not know my ways;
11 As I sware in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest.

Compare this with Ex 17:7.

Here we can the Spirit is omnipresent
Psalms 139:7 Where shall I go from your spirit? or where shall I flee from your presence?
Ephesians 2:17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were near.
Ephesians 2:18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit to the Father.
1 Corinthians 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one

Creation is by Him
Genesis 1:2 And the earth was waste and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep: and the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
Job 26:13 By his Spirit the heavens are garnished; His hand hath pierced the swift serpent.
Psalms 104:30 Thou sendest forth thy Spirit, they are created;

The Holy Gost is the Parakletos, or... what we can say..
He is the comforter
John 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

Just some of the Biblical arguments.

What does the Koran teaching about the Holy Gost:
Well.. He is Gabriel Like Kor 16:102 incomparing 2:97

He is a creation,... and a creation who made some crazy...

We know that Soera 96:1-3 are the first verses actually from the Koran.
And what said the hadith saying about the first revelation of Mohammed with Gabriel?

His wife Aisha said that she heard this from Mohammed: That his hart was bounsing, his body was shaking. And Gabriel was very pressing: Read.. he said... and Mohammed said.. I can't read.. read said Gabriel again and Mohammed said.. I don't know how..

Read said Gabriel again.. and he took Mohammed and pressed him with violance..
And than Mohammed read the first verses of the book.

Mohammed was so scared.. so scared.. he didn't know it was an angel of Allah. No, he run back to his wife Khadija and he said.. cover me, cover me. And it was the uncle of his wife who said.. well you are a prophet.. and his uncle was a member of the ebonites.. a sect.

(for the notes you can read: the correct book of Bukhari vol 9, and vol 1 book 1 nr 3 book 87 and the correct book of Muslim book 1, nr 301)

It is interesting to read... and to understand. This is not the Gabriel who revealed to Daniel, and to Zacharia and to Maria... because the different is.. the Gabriel from the Bible is gentle.. not pressing ful

 

[PBUH]

No. If you were earnestly searching for THE truth, you would be finding the Lord Jesus Christ. He who seeks shall surely find (Matt. 7:7, Luke 11:9). Jesus IS truth (John 14:6, John 8:32). You are declaring and promoting A perceived deceived "truth" of superimposing an idolatrous god and prophet onto the one true God and Savior of holy scripture.

THE truth is that Islam is a henotheistic religion that has repackaged itself into monotheism and masqueraded as a parallel to the Hebrew Echad. As one of a pleroma of gods, Allah the moon god was chosen out of the many gods as the deity of the ancestral tribe of M---d. Ultimately, the remainder of the pleroma was ignored and Allah was presented as the one true God and equated to the YHVH of the OT.

Allah is a mythological god from a pantheon of many mythological gods, and all of them are idolatrous cultural substitutes for the true Deity of the one true Almighty God. Allah is no God, and no "prophet" of Allah is a prophet. There is no praise due the non-God Allah or the non-prophet M---d.

Even in henotheistic idolatry, Allah the moon god was only a reflective luminary of the sun god. There's intense irony there, since the Logos is the true light that lighteth the world. The best Allah the moon god's idolatrous followers can do is use the Word to try and deflect enough light to have something to shine.

You try to make the Father into Allah, the Parakletos into M---d, and Jesus into a subordinate prophet to M---d. You serve a mythological non-existent god that you have superimposed onto scripture, trying to draw the life that is the light of men... the Word.

You seek not THE truth; you seek to promote A wanna-be truth. Allah isn't just an over-exalted one-of-many god pretending to be God... Allah doesn't exist! And M---d was a false prophet of that non-existent pretend god. There is no praise due his name.



I made no reference to comparative goodness between us or anyone else. You are not seeking or asking, you are declaring and promoting. It is virtually always a waste of time to deal such a one.



You didn't have to state it; it is your narrow insistence on marginal understandings as adamant truth that strongly implies this. You are NOT searching for THE truth at all. Allah is a fictional god among many fictional gods, and is NOT interchangeable for the one true and living God.



No. So leave the deep theology and etymology to others 'til you respond to the Gospel by faith and abort your futile attempt to merge an imaginary god with the one true Living God.



No smoke. No mirrors. The overwhelmingly universal primary meaning of Ruach (H7307) and Pneuma (G4151) is Spirit. It/they mean(s) to blow; of breath. It can mean anything which passes quickly, the air put in motion by divine breath. The most basic meaning is air in motion, and may be inhaled, exhaled, on the lips, in the nostrils, etc. Also used of the divine, miraculous power by which inanimate things move or are given vitality of life. The element of life in a person.

Can it mean wind or breeze or a few other related things in certain contexts? Yes. Is that the primary literal or metaphorical meaning? No, not in the least.



I'm not attacking; I'm refuting and debunking ignorance and contentious manipulation and posturing with pseudo-knowledge. You have no credibility. You promote a non-existent god and its false prophet as God and the Holy Spirit, whole subordinating Jesus Christ as secondary to this wish-I-was-a-wanna-be prophet.



Your language research is abysmally lacking. You evidently assume many things... like that Allah exists.

Hi PneumaPsucheSoma

You are strict in what you believe and have no tolerance for anyone that believes differently. No problemo.

As stated in the Quran

What is your religion is yours and what is mine is mine.

Ok you brought up old chestnut that old Allah is a moon God.

You seem to be into languages . You might get a kick out of this.

The word "ALLAH" is made-up of the following two syllables.
"AL" and "ILAH". AL means THE; ILAH means GOD.
The two together simply means "THE GOD" (without partner).

In the end Allah is just Arabic for God. You will find Allah used to describe God in the Arabic bible.Does this mean Arabic Christians worship moon gods ?

"Among His Signs are the Night and the Day and the Sun and Moon. Prostrate (adore) not to the Sun and the Moon but prostrate to Allah, Who created them, if it is Him ye wish to serve."
Holy Qur'an 41:37

I pray that God opens your heart to the truth.

 

[PBUH]

I think you are right.. the influence of the koran and the muslims is more influence than the Jesus or the Bible.

Why??? Look at the M.E. Look at the fear from the Koran. Look at the fear for the extremist. Can I go further?

Yes,.. Look here in Europe.. about domestic violance.. in the life from woman. Look at the honour revange.

Is there more? The influence of the koran and Mohammed isn't possitive.

The teaching from Jesus,.. is love.. the teaching from Paul is love and forgiven.. The most powerful message. But it is difficult.. Because.. people don't want to be loved. Hate and self judging is always a better message.

During the dark ages.. the Catholic church, didn't tell the message of Love.. During the wars.. the church didn't tell the the message of Jesus. So,.. you are right... the influence from Islam is more, ...

But Micheal Hart said.. Mohammed is the author of the Koran. Well as Muslim, you know it isn't true. And who is Micheal Hart to say this? What is the really influence from the Bible at the society? And the Koran? In how many languages is the Koran translated..
And the Bible.. How many Christians are there? And how many muslims? What is the mission of Jesus.. what is it from Mohammed.. How many wonders can you find in the Koran about Jesus? And how many about Mohammed. How was the birth of Jesus? How was it from Mohammed...

But the topic isn't about influence.. it is about.. the Holy Spirit is He God, or is Gabriel.. called the holy Spirit.

For that.. we can compare the Bible with the Koran.. and I think it is really interesting.. to do it..
Or is the Gabriel from the islam a demon..
--

We can look:

The Biblei
In the Holy Gost is the name of YHWH.. (Heb 3)
7 Wherefore, even as the Holy Spirit saith, To-day if ye shall hear his voice,
8 Harden not your hearts, as in the provocation, Like as in the day of the trial in the wilderness,
9 Where your fathers tried me by proving me, And saw my works forty years.
10 Wherefore I was displeased with this generation, And said, They do always err in their heart: But they did not know my ways;
11 As I sware in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest.

Compare this with Ex 17:7.

Here we can the Spirit is omnipresent
Psalms 139:7 Where shall I go from your spirit? or where shall I flee from your presence?
Ephesians 2:17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were near.
Ephesians 2:18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit to the Father.
1 Corinthians 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one

Creation is by Him
Genesis 1:2 And the earth was waste and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep: and the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
Job 26:13 By his Spirit the heavens are garnished; His hand hath pierced the swift serpent.
Psalms 104:30 Thou sendest forth thy Spirit, they are created;

The Holy Gost is the Parakletos, or... what we can say..
He is the comforter
John 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

Just some of the Biblical arguments.

What does the Koran teaching about the Holy Gost:
Well.. He is Gabriel Like Kor 16:102 incomparing 2:97

He is a creation,... and a creation who made some crazy...

We know that Soera 96:1-3 are the first verses actually from the Koran.
And what said the hadith saying about the first revelation of Mohammed with Gabriel?

His wife Aisha said that she heard this from Mohammed: That his hart was bounsing, his body was shaking. And Gabriel was very pressing: Read.. he said... and Mohammed said.. I can't read.. read said Gabriel again and Mohammed said.. I don't know how..

Read said Gabriel again.. and he took Mohammed and pressed him with violance..
And than Mohammed read the first verses of the book.

Mohammed was so scared.. so scared.. he didn't know it was an angel of Allah. No, he run back to his wife Khadija and he said.. cover me, cover me. And it was the uncle of his wife who said.. well you are a prophet.. and his uncle was a member of the ebonites.. a sect.

(for the notes you can read: the correct book of Bukhari vol 9, and vol 1 book 1 nr 3 book 87 and the correct book of Muslim book 1, nr 301)

It is interesting to read... and to understand. This is not the Gabriel who revealed to Daniel, and to Zacharia and to Maria... because the different is.. the Gabriel from the Bible is gentle.. not pressing ful

Hi Dutch41

I find your English to be very good.

It is interesting to read... and to understand. This is not the Gabriel who revealed to Daniel, and to Zacharia and to Maria... because the different is.. the Gabriel from the Bible is gentle.. not pressing ful

Gabriel is an angel of God. He acts as God wanted him to act.

We believe Gabriel to be one of the two angels present in Lots house before Sodom was destroyed.

 

[PneumaPsucheSoma]

Hi PneumaPsucheSoma

You are strict in what you believe and have no tolerance for anyone that believes differently. No problemo.

As stated in the Quran

What is your religion is yours and what is mine is mine.

Ok you brought up old chestnut that old Allah is a moon God.

You seem to be into languages . You might get a kick out of this.

The word "ALLAH" is made-up of the following two syllables.
"AL" and "ILAH". AL means THE; ILAH means GOD.
The two together simply means "THE GOD" (without partner).

In the end Allah is just Arabic for God. You will find Allah used to describe God in the Arabic bible.Does this mean Arabic Christians worship moon gods ?

"Among His Signs are the Night and the Day and the Sun and Moon. Prostrate (adore) not to the Sun and the Moon but prostrate to Allah, Who created them, if it is Him ye wish to serve."
Holy Qur'an 41:37

I pray that God opens your heart to the truth.

God opened my heart to truth, which is why I make sure the lies about Allah being synonomous with the one true God.

The early Persian Christians' use of "Allah" is part of the smoke and mirrors for the moon-god masquerading as The God by using that same name in different guise.

I know what AL ILAH means. You can call anyone and anything you want by that name; it doesn't equate a god as THE God. The Persian Christians were correct. Islam and M----d are idolatrous usurpers of the name of the one true God.

A camel is more God than the M----d Allah.

You're right, I have no tolerance for a cult that falsely claims their god is God; while the tenets of their false-faith don't represent the one true God, all the while readying the knife for throats of true Christians.

AL ILAH is part of the word-game masquerade.

I'm in no way promoting lovelessness. I'm warning other Christians not to be caught unawares by the lies of Satan and Islam.

I'll refer to the Islamic god ad allah or a----h henceforth. That reserves the honor of Allah as the Persian Christian expression of the one true God.

 

[Scotth1960]

First, I think you'll find it unusual that I'm from a Protestant background, but found the truth of the Spirit and left behind the error of Filioque, Original Sin, Calvinism AND Arminianism, etc.

Since scripture nowhere utilizes the creedal term "person" in regards to the Father or the Spirit, it can't be a sin against the truth of scripture to disaffirm that part of a doctrinal formulation of man, orthodoxy or otherwise. I affirm that the Son is the express image (charakter G5481) of his substance (hupostasis G5287), the fullness (pleroma G4138) of the Godhead (Theotes G2320) bodily (somatikos G4985).

The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are one substance. I disaffirm the extra-biblical term "person", except in reference to the Incarnate Word as the son of man with a rational soul. God is not "person(s)" of any quantity. It is the single prevailing deficiency in orthodoxy. A word (person) is not THE Word.

If you go to my last post in the Trinity versus Oneness thread, you'll see what I affirm and more. There's also a brief question for you.

Could you repeat your last post in the Trinity versus Oneness three here? And also repeat your brief question. Thank you. Your background seems similar to me. I am a person who was Protestant, I deny the Filiqoue, I deny original sin, I deny the Calvinism vs. Arminian debate. But unlike you, I guess, I affirm the Trinity belief. Take care.

 

[PneumaPsucheSoma]

Could you repeat your last post in the Trinity versus Oneness three here? And also repeat your brief question. Thank you. Your background seems similar to me. I am a person who was Protestant, I deny the Filiqoue, I deny original sin, I deny the Calvinism vs. Arminian debate. But unlike you, I guess, I affirm the Trinity belief. Take care.

Hi, Scott-

Because of Business and Ministry, I spend most of my time mobile and iPhone-bound. I'm not sure I can copy and paste. It's post #908.

Please don't mistake my firmness and assurance for lovelessness. I'm contending for the faith, not being personal. The forum doesn't convey intensity very well; it is usually perceived as anger, arrogance, or delusion or whatever.

 

[DanuckInUSA]

Trinity makes sense to me.

 

[PneumaPsucheSoma]

Trinity makes sense to me.

Yeah, 1.5+ millenia of orthodox dogma and default indoctrination with punitive repercussions tends to produce that end result.

Divine Siamese Triplets makes sense because it's what you were taught. People believe what they know, not vice versa.

 

[PBUH]

God opened my heart to truth, which is why I make sure the lies about Allah being synonomous with the one true God.

The early Persian Christians' use of "Allah" is part of the smoke and mirrors for the moon-god masquerading as The God by using that same name in different guise.

I know what AL ILAH means. You can call anyone and anything you want by that name; it doesn't equate a god as THE God. The Persian Christians were correct. Islam and M----d are idolatrous usurpers of the name of the one true God.

A camel is more God than the M----d Allah.

You're right, I have no tolerance for a cult that falsely claims their god is God; while the tenets of their false-faith don't represent the one true God, all the while readying the knife for throats of true Christians.

AL ILAH is part of the word-game masquerade.

I'm in no way promoting lovelessness. I'm warning other Christians not to be caught unawares by the lies of Satan and Islam.

I'll refer to the Islamic god ad allah or a----h henceforth. That reserves the honor of Allah as the Persian Christian expression of the one true God.

Hi PneumaPsucheSoma

Allah is the God of Ishmael and Abraham pbut. The Ishmaelites prayed to one God. At the time of Amr Ibn Lahiyy it was fashionable in Persia to pray to idols. Amr Ibn Lahiyy introduced an Idol Hubal as an intermediate to pray to God (sounds similar to the catholic story). Eventually they stop being intermediates and became Gods. (sound similar to the Hindu story) Hubal the first idol introduced became the moon God. People that like to attack Islam like to muddy the water and suggest that Allah was the moon God. Allah was the God of Ishmael and Abraham pbuh.

The last thing Satan would want is for someone to come along and tell them get rid of all these idols and go back to only praying to Allah the God of Abraham and Ishmael. It seems counter productive.

Concerning holding a knife to the throat of Christians. The noted historian De Lacy O'Leary wrote:

In his book Islam at the Crossroads, p.8.]
History makes it clear however, that the legend of fanatical Muslims sweeping through the world and forcing Islam at the point of the sword upon conquered races is one of the most fantastically absurd myths that historians have ever repeated.

I have encountered people similar to yourself that are .... well energetic in their belief. You have some hatred there ..... You will probably deny it.

What is your understanding of Jesus second most important command ?

Do you believe all your future sins are forgiven ?

 

[PneumaPsucheSoma]

Hi PneumaPsucheSoma

Allah is the God of Ishmael and Abraham pbut. The Ishmaelites prayed to one God. At the time of Amr Ibn Lahiyy it was fashionable in Persia to pray to idols. Amr Ibn Lahiyy introduced an Idol Hubal as an intermediate to pray to God (sounds similar to the catholic story). Eventually they stop being intermediates and became Gods. (sound similar to the Hindu story) Hubal the first idol introduced became the moon God. People that like to attack Islam like to muddy the water and suggest that Allah was the moon God. Allah was the God of Ishmael and Abraham pbuh.

The last thing Satan would want is for someone to come along and tell them get rid of all these idols and go back to only praying to Allah the God of Abraham and Ishmael. It seems counter productive.

Concerning holding a knife to the throat of Christians. The noted historian De Lacy O'Leary wrote:

In his book Islam at the Crossroads, p.8.]
History makes it clear however, that the legend of fanatical Muslims sweeping through the world and forcing Islam at the point of the sword upon conquered races is one of the most fantastically absurd myths that historians have ever repeated.

I have encountered people similar to yourself that are .... well energetic in their belief. You have some hatred there ..... You will probably deny it.

What is your understanding of Jesus second most important command ?

Do you believe all your future sins are forgiven ?

No need for me to further comment on your fraudulent reference to Ishmael's God being the one true God of Abraham. You do not worship that one true God.

The second commandment is to love your neighbor as yourself. I would say all the same things to myself in strong stern love.

The first commandment you violate by masquerading and substituting your god and false prophet.

Don't address your perception of my fulfillment of the 2nd unless/until you fulfill the 1st by renouncing your idolatry and professing faith in Jesus Christ.

 

[PBUH]

No need for me to further comment on your fraudulent reference to Ishmael's God being the one true God of Abraham. You do not worship that one true God.

The second commandment is to love your neighbor as yourself. I would say all the same things to myself in strong stern love.

The first commandment you violate by masquerading and substituting your god and false prophet.

Don't address your perception of my fulfillment of the 2nd unless/until you fulfill the 1st by renouncing your idolatry and professing faith in Jesus Christ.

So much hatred. It will consume you in the end.

Have a good day PneumaPsucheSoma

 

[Scotth1960]

^ Agreed. ^

You are 2/3 of your way to the whole truth about the Father Son and Spirit. You confess that the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are one God, yes? The Father is God. The Son is God. The Holy Spirit is God. You just, and I don't know why, deny they are persons. Is this correct? Why do you reject the word persons? What's wrong with that?

 

[PneumaPsucheSoma]

You are 2/3 of your way to the whole truth about the Father Son and Spirit. You confess that the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are one God, yes? The Father is God. The Son is God. The Holy Spirit is God. You just, and I don't know why, deny they are persons. Is this correct? Why do you reject the word persons? What's wrong with that?

You have that inverted. You are 2/3 of the way to the truth.

God is not Divine Siamese Triplets.

Seriously... God doesn't have but one Divine mind. The Theoanthropos had a mind of His rational soul, but God as a whole does not have multiple minds. Persons each have a mind.

 

[PneumaPsucheSoma]

So much hatred. It will consume you in the end.

Have a good day PneumaPsucheSoma

I don't hate you. This isn't personal.

I despise your idolatry and attempts at deception or delusion... whichever it is.

 

[Scotth1960]

Yeah, 1.5+ millenia of orthodox dogma and default indoctrination with punitive repercussions tends to produce that end result.

Divine Siamese Triplets makes sense because it's what you were taught. People believe what they know, not vice versa.

People know what they believe. Without faith, it is impossible to please God. The Word doesn't say, "Without knowledge, it is impossible to please God". Knowledge puffs up. We know only by obeying God, not by concepts alone. The more we obey the more we truly grow. I think however you are just saying stuff that makes a case for your need not to say just what comes to mind. The Siamese quote is just completely off the wall, and out of place in a serious conversation. But God forgive you. Anyway, I need to lighten up. I have said things very much worse than what you wrote. So I need forgiveness a lot. Anyway, may God forgive and save us all. We all need God's mercy in Christ. God save us. Amen.