The house of Israel

[obedienttogod]

I firmly believe that the only way that a person can understand anything about the doctrine that Jesus taught is if the Holy Spirit (one who reveals) reveals it to the bible student. God will not allow the truth to be revealed until the person has denied himself (his own intellect). The scriptures should be our only source of doctrinal information and not other men's writings and interpretations. I feel that your many degrees and dependence upon other men's interpretations of the scriptures is a deterrent to God allowing the truth of Christ's doctrine to be revealed to you. Jesus, himself, taught the apostles, except for Paul, and he did not go to the rest of the apostles to learn the doctrine of Christ, but went off to himself and was taught by the Holy Spirit.

When you see a SINNER visiting your church for the first time. And some point during the church service, this SINNER gets up and walks to the altar and gives their life to God. Did the SINNER have to believe they needed to be SAVED in order to go to the altar, or did the SINNER go to the altar because they saw other people going to the altar?

They went to the altar because THEY BELIEVED they needed Salvation. So at this point, the SINNER is believing there is a GOD. Can the SINNER physically see GOD? Can the SINNER audibly hear God? NO, they cannot!!

But they still believe they NEED GOD and His Salvation. The act to which made them stand up, walk to the altar, begin giving their life to God, is the act of FAITH.

They don't SEE God, HEAR God, have no real reason then to believe in God, but they do believe and act upon it. They did this by Faith believing there is a God who can SAVE them.

NO ONE is saved ACCIDENTLY, it's ALWAYS ON PURPOSE that someone gets SAVED. And THAT on purpose Salvation ONLY happens, when FAITH takes place.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

When you see a SINNER visiting your church for the first time. And some point during the church service, this SINNER gets up and walks to the altar and gives their life to God. Did the SINNER have to believe they needed to be SAVED in order to go to the altar, or did the SINNER go to the altar because they saw other people going to the altar?

They went to the altar because THEY BELIEVED they needed Salvation. So at this point, the SINNER is believing there is a GOD. Can the SINNER physically see GOD? Can the SINNER audibly hear God? NO, they cannot!!

But they still believe they NEED GOD and His Salvation. The act to which made them stand up, walk to the altar, begin giving their life to God, is the act of FAITH.

They don't SEE God, HEAR God, have no real reason then to believe in God, but they do believe and act upon it. They did this by Faith believing there is a God who can SAVE them.

NO ONE is saved ACCIDENTLY, it's ALWAYS ON PURPOSE that someone gets SAVED. And THAT on purpose Salvation ONLY happens, when FAITH takes place.

It sounds like you are saying that a person saves himself eternally. Is this what you are saying? The natural man described in 1 Cor 2:14 (by the way, have you even read 1 Cor 2:14? ) would never go into a church and go down front and ask to be saved. Saved from what? He would never ask to be forgiven of breaking a spiritual law that he cannot discern. The only faith that the natural man has is faith in the things of the world, which you have so graciously given us examples of. If a sinner comes into a church and asks forgiveness for his sins he has already been born again and given the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

When you see a SINNER visiting your church for the first time. And some point during the church service, this SINNER gets up and walks to the altar and gives their life to God. Did the SINNER have to believe they needed to be SAVED in order to go to the altar, or did the SINNER go to the altar because they saw other people going to the altar?

They went to the altar because THEY BELIEVED they needed Salvation. So at this point, the SINNER is believing there is a GOD. Can the SINNER physically see GOD? Can the SINNER audibly hear God? NO, they cannot!!

But they still believe they NEED GOD and His Salvation. The act to which made them stand up, walk to the altar, begin giving their life to God, is the act of FAITH.

They don't SEE God, HEAR God, have no real reason then to believe in God, but they do believe and act upon it. They did this by Faith believing there is a God who can SAVE them.

NO ONE is saved ACCIDENTLY, it's ALWAYS ON PURPOSE that someone gets SAVED. And THAT on purpose Salvation ONLY happens, when FAITH takes place.

I perceive that you do not understand exactly how depraved you, and all of us, are by nature. You will never understand the grace of God until you understand your depravity.

 

[obedienttogod]

I perceive that you do not understand exactly how depraved you, and all of us, are by nature. You will never understand the grace of God until you understand your depravity.

I understand my areas of weakness. I just don't let them define me in my actions, like you have, by boxing me in your attempt to manipulate me into seeing your point of view.

 

[obedienttogod]

It sounds like you are saying that a person saves himself eternally. Is this what you are saying? The natural man described in 1 Cor 2:14 (by the way, have you even read 1 Cor 2:14? ) would never go into a church and go down front and ask to be saved. Saved from what? He would never ask to be forgiven of breaking a spiritual law that he cannot discern. The only faith that the natural man has is faith in the things of the world, which you have so graciously given us examples of. If a sinner comes into a church and asks forgiveness for his sins he has already been born again and given the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.

No, God is the ONE who can save anyone/anything.

But if we never believe in God or that God is capable of saving us, it won't matter what God is capable of doing.

On the other hand, if we believe in God, we are receptive of what He is capable of. But the scriptures are very specific and clear, NO FAITH = NO BELIEF. When BELIEF happens = FAITH.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

No, God is the ONE who can save anyone/anything.

But if we never believe in God or that God is capable of saving us, it won't matter what God is capable of doing.

On the other hand, if we believe in God, we are receptive of what He is capable of. But the scriptures are very specific and clear, NO FAITH = NO BELIEF. When BELIEF happens = FAITH.

How do you harmonize John 12: 47 with your statement?

 

[obedienttogod]

How do you harmonize John 12: 47 with your statement?

47 And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.


First of all, I understand that the purpose during when Yeshua was on Earth, was simply to introduce us to the Gospel and to become our Sacrificial Lamb. This is an act of God's Love for His Creation. And clearly 2,000 years later, the world is STILL in the presence of God's Love.

But once the Great Tribulation is over, the sun darkens, the moon turns to blood, Yeshua will return like lighting stretching from the East to the West, He will send His angels to gather the Elect (This is all found in Matthew 24, with similar passages found in Mark, Luke, and the Book of Acts), then He will create WAR in the Valley of Megiddo (Armageddon), this current Earth will no longer exist, a new Earth and New Jerusalem will takes its place, 1,000 years will pass, the Adversary will be released one last time, then God will permanently cast the Adversary into the Lake of Fire along with the Beast, False Prophet, the Grave and Death, and then the entire demonic cast. And the final act will take place before the Great White Throne Judgement, where it is then judgement will fall upon every lost soul before being cast themselves into the Lake of Fire.

So verse 47 is not complicated at all, when we understand, there will be an appointed set time for Judgement!! And when Yeshua lived on planet Earth, the appointed time for Judgement, was obviously not then.

 

[Guojing]

I perceive that you do not understand exactly how depraved you, and all of us, are by nature. You will never understand the grace of God until you understand your depravity.

Ahh I sense the concept of "total depravity" in your mind now!

 

[ForestGreenCook]

47 And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.


First of all, I understand that the purpose during when Yeshua was on Earth, was simply to introduce us to the Gospel and to become our Sacrificial Lamb. This is an act of God's Love for His Creation. And clearly 2,000 years later, the world is STILL in the presence of God's Love.

But once the Great Tribulation is over, the sun darkens, the moon turns to blood, Yeshua will return like lighting stretching from the East to the West, He will send His angels to gather the Elect (This is all found in Matthew 24, with similar passages found in Mark, Luke, and the Book of Acts), then He will create WAR in the Valley of Megiddo (Armageddon), this current Earth will no longer exist, a new Earth and New Jerusalem will takes its place, 1,000 years will pass, the Adversary will be released one last time, then God will permanently cast the Adversary into the Lake of Fire along with the Beast, False Prophet, the Grave and Death, and then the entire demonic cast. And the final act will take place before the Great White Throne Judgement, where it is then judgement will fall upon every lost soul before being cast themselves into the Lake of Fire.

So verse 47 is not complicated at all, when we understand, there will be an appointed set time for Judgement!! And when Yeshua lived on planet Earth, the appointed time for Judgement, was obviously not then.

Christ is reigning as King and husband of his kingdom on earth ever sense he set up his church when he was on earth. The church, which is his kingdom on earth is referenced by many different names through out the scriptures such as; The kingdom pf God, the New Jerusalem, the Church in the wilderness, The church of God, the Kingdom of heaven, the Church of Christ, and more. God is judging his elect through his chastening as they live their lives here on earth. They will not be judged at the last day, but will be told "enter ye in, you good and faithful servants". God does not chasten the wicked here on earth but will judge them at the last day and condemn them to hell.

 

[garee]

How do you harmonize John 12: 47 with your statement?

How would John 12: 47 fit into what you are trying to harmonize?

 

[garee]

Ahh I sense the concept of "total depravity" in your mind now!

Yes total . Depraved of the faith that comes when he gives us a new spirit to believe. Depraved of faith previously having none, and a depraved of new spirit that will never die by which we can believe. Without it no man could please God.

 

[obedienttogod]

Christ is reigning as King and husband of his kingdom on earth ever sense he set up his church when he was on earth. The church, which is his kingdom on earth is referenced by many different names through out the scriptures such as; The kingdom pf God, the New Jerusalem, the Church in the wilderness, The church of God, the Kingdom of heaven, the Church of Christ, and more. God is judging his elect through his chastening as they live their lives here on earth. They will not be judged at the last day, but will be told "enter ye in, you good and faithful servants". God does not chasten the wicked here on earth but will judge them at the last day and condemn them to hell.

But YOUR ANSWER actually DOES NOT reflect the VERSE you asked about. The verse spoke about those refusing the Gospel. Well, if they die still that refusal, they will be JUDGED for it when the GWTJ takes place.

See, this is why you are hard to talk with.

You present a VERSE about refusing to read and belief what yeshua said on Earth, and then instead of answering it in accordance to context, you go off on the opposite tangent.

You are once again trying to manipulate me.

DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND THAT YOU HAVE A SERIOUS MENTAL PROBLEM?

 

[JGIG]

Those who believe in Christ become the elect.

One is not 'elect' in order to believe in Christ.

Christ did the Work of the Cross, the Resurrection, the Ascension, and sits as the Perfect, Permanent High Priest for all who choose to believe in Him \0/ !

You may be considering two or three concepts which all need to be viewed through the lens of the Work of Christ:

1. Who is Israel (there is a 'Two House' or 'Lost Tribes' false doctrine out there which may be influencing you)
2. The concept of election
3. The concept of predestination

I find the following series to be a very thorough, Scriptural treatment of Israel, Gentiles, election, and predestination:

https://andrewfarley.org/videos/the-predestination-puzzle/


-JGIG

The scriptures alone should be our only source of doctrinal information and not the interpretations of men, therefore I did not view your video and do not read other men's interpretations. The scriptures say (1 Cor 2:14) that the natural man cannot discern spiritual things, such as believing in Jesus, until God regenerates (Eph 2) him and gives him the indwelling of the Holy Spirit in which spiritual faith is a fruit of (Gal 5)

I didn't suppose that you would - but offered it anyway, if not for you, for the reader who is open to interpretations other than yours .

And I agree, by the way; Scripture alone should be our only source of doctrinal information. We are all human, however, and your personal interpretation is no less an 'interpretation of men' than anyone else's.

I would exhort you in the contextual use of the Scriptures, and to always Always ALWAYS interpret Scripture through the lens of the Work of Christ:

1. Who Christ is (God in the flesh)
2. What He came to do (Work of the Cross, the Resurrection, the Ascension, and His Perfect, Permanent High Priesthood)
3. What that actually accomplished, and
4. Who we who have received Christ are in Him
   

That is why we must test everything in Christ and be so very careful that we use Scripture properly (1 Thes. 5:21, 2 Tim. 3:16-17, 1 Tim. 1:8-11, 2 Pet. 1:20).

We must also be careful to remain teachable, because not you, not I, not anyone - has it all perfectly right.

Grace and peace to you,
-JGIG

 

[ForestGreenCook]

I didn't suppose that you would - but offered it anyway, if not for you, for the reader who is open to interpretations other than yours .

And I agree, by the way; Scripture alone should be our only source of doctrinal information. We are all human, however, and your personal interpretation is no less an 'interpretation of men' than anyone else's.

I would exhort you in the contextual use of the Scriptures, and to always Always ALWAYS interpret Scripture through the lens of the Work of Christ:

1. Who Christ is (God in the flesh)
2. What He came to do (Work of the Cross, the Resurrection, the Ascension, and His Perfect, Permanent High Priesthood)
3. What that actually accomplished, and
4. Who we who have received Christ are in Him

That is why we must test everything in Christ and be so very careful that we use Scripture properly (1 Thes. 5:21, 2 Tim. 3:16-17, 1 Tim. 1:8-11, 2 Pet. 1:20).

We must also be careful to remain teachable, because not you, not I, not anyone - has it all perfectly right.

Grace and peace to you,
-JGIG

I do agree that I am lacking in understanding all of God's will as portrayed in the scriptures, but he has revealed some truths to me. Thanks for your input.