the human soul, what is it?

[prove-all]

Man Is Mortal
“And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath [air] of life;
and man became a living soul” (Genesis 2:7).

Man, formed from material dust of the ground, upon breathing air, became a living soul
It does not say man is, or has, an immortal soul. What was formed from material ground became a soul.

The word “soul” is translated from Hebrew, the word nephesh. The Hebrew nephesh merely means a breathing animal
animals are called nephesh in: Genesis 1:20, “moving creature” (Hebrew, nephesh); Genesis 1:21,
“great whales, and every living creature” (Hebrew, nephesh); Genesis 1:24, “living creature” (Hebrew, nephesh).

The translators in translating into the English language used the English word “creature
but in Genesis 2:7 they translated the same nephesh into the English word “soul”—man became a “living soul” (nephesh).

The word nephesh literally means “life of animals,” referring to physical life and not spirit
Therefore the soul is physical, composed of matter, and can die.

Satan’s lie to mother Eve that man is immortal and cannot die.

In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground;
for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return

the spirit in man

- this is not Gods holy spirit it's mans, or Holy ghost

1 The burden of the word of the Lord for Israel, saith the Lord, which stretcheth forth the heavens,
and layeth the foundation of the earth, and formeth the spirit of man within him.

- science calls it youre concience, they can't see, or feel, or understand it

8 But there is a spirit in man: and the inspiration of the Almighty giveth them understanding.

- it's what imparts thought, it seperates mans brain from animals

7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

- a recording of youre life returns to God, without youre body it knows nothing and it's not immortal or alive by itself
this spirit in man, combined with Gods Holy spirit makes man complete

 

[Atwood]

Re: Soul = Person, Life: Functional, Not Metaphysical Term

Well put. This is a pretty complex area when talking about whether there are two or three. The Bible says there are two, then says there are three.

An interesting discourse, Allin.
I haven't found it necessary to find that 2 = 3 in the Bible! For example the oneness of God and the threeness of God do not address the same matter (one essence, 3 persons). Calling the Holy Spirit 7 Spirits does seem strange in Revelation, though it has explanation from Isaiah 11
2 And the Spirit of Jehovah shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of Jehovah.

I don't know of any Bible passage that enumerates the parts of man using the number 3.

As to the creation of man, what do you think of the relationship of nishmah to ruach? Probably many who read that interpret nishmah as spirit, though it is not ruach. Do they overlap in meaning? For example, Gen 7:22 on the flood says:

"all in whose nostrils was the breath [nishmah] of the spirit [ruach] of life, of all that was on the dry land, died [mētu]."
I note that a Hebrew lexicon claims that nishmah may (also) refer to spirit. And of course it is well-known that ruach may mean breath, wind, or spirit.

‏כל אשר נשמת רוח חיים באפיו מכל אשר בחרבה מתו​

 

[The_highwayman]

1 Thess 5.23 settles this issue:


[SUP]23 [/SUP]And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[Atwood]

1 Thess 5.23 settles this issue:


[SUP]23 [/SUP]And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

How does it settle the issue? The text does not claim to give a comprehensive list of the metaphysical parts of man.

"Having therefore these promises, beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all defilement of flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God."

What about defilement of soul? If defilement of flesh & spirit is cleansed does that result in perfect holiness?

Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbor as thyself.

So then there are 4 parts? Body, heart, soul, & mind -- make it 5 assuming that spirit was accidentally left out?


"Because Christ also suffered for sins once, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God; being put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit;"

So if the flesh was dead, but the spirit alive, what happened to the soul?


"piercing even to the dividing of soul and spirit, of both joints and marrow, and quick to discern the thoughts and intents of the heart."

Are there 4 parts here? body, soul, spirit, & heart?

Methinks that before one dogmatizes on this subject, one needs to carefully look at all the passages on nephesh and psyche in the scripture. Can a dead body be called a dead nephesh? It also wouldn't hurt to consult with those who have the spiritual gift of teaching including major systematic theologies (Strong, Chafer, Hodge, Shedd)

 

[dcontroversal]

No offence dude, but you should quit watching reruns of the Matrix.......Uploads our mind you say? HAHAHH WOW!

 

[Atwood]

Re: Soul = Person, Life: Functional, Not Metaphysical Term

Correction to the below, the Hebrew word in Gen 2:7 נשמה is vocalized as n∂shamah, not nishmah.

An interesting discourse, Allin.
I haven't found it necessary to find that 2 = 3 in the Bible! For example the oneness of God and the threeness of God do not address the same matter (one essence, 3 persons). Calling the Holy Spirit 7 Spirits does seem strange in Revelation, though it has explanation from Isaiah 11
2 And the Spirit of Jehovah shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of Jehovah.

I don't know of any Bible passage that enumerates the parts of man using the number 3.

As to the creation of man, what do you think of the relationship of nishmah to ruach? Probably many who read that interpret nishmah as spirit, though it is not ruach. Do they overlap in meaning? For example, Gen 7:22 on the flood says:

"all in whose nostrils was the breath [nishmah] of the spirit [ruach] of life, of all that was on the dry land, died [mētu]."
I note that a Hebrew lexicon claims that nishmah may (also) refer to spirit. And of course it is well-known that ruach may mean breath, wind, or spirit.

‏כל אשר נשמת רוח חיים באפיו מכל אשר בחרבה מתו​

 

[seed_time_harvest]

Spirit,Soul and Body<-------click​

 

[peacefulbeliever]

Seeing Adam did not have a soul without his body prior to his creation, this passage is just stressing the fact that he is human and not an angel or spirit.

It is stressing that Adam became a living person . . . . formed from the dust of the ground - he was just a form but when God breathed into him the breath of life - he became a living person, i.e. soul.

 

[Sec]

1 Thess 5.23 settles this issue:


[SUP]23 [/SUP]And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

no, it just illustrates the ignorance of Paul about what the Holy spirit was. Even Jesus did not understand it, He thought of god as His real father, but He thought of the Holy Spirit, as His mother. the holy spirit is not a being, it is used by god just as we use radio waves, TV waves, cell phones, and remote controls. If I had not had experience with those modern day items i wouldn't understand it either. For instance, suppose there could be a way to take 2 cell phones back 3,000 years, and have them work. If someone heard someone speaking to them from the cell phone, they would naturally think that the cell phone, was a person. same problem with the Holy
Spirit.

 

[Allin]

Dude , Jesus knew what they were thinking and the Father already knew what they would do. Jesus said I do nothing accept what I see my Father do. David said and I think also Jeremiah that while I was in the womb you knew me.

I make sure not to speak about things I haven't learned about. Jesus knew what they were thinking because God revealed it to Him by the Holy Spirit. The thoughts He addresses are not 'thoughts of the head'. He never said, "Why do you think in your heads..." He was addressing thoughts of the heart which are vastly different from thoughts you think in your head. Head thoughts are your conscious mind; you know you are thinking. Heart thoughts are your subconscious mind where you emotions, beliefs, feelings, convictions, and prejudices lie. If Jesus knew their thoughts (i.e. if He knew them), it wasn't just because God knew them before they were born as He said to Jeremiah; it was because God was revealing to Jesus in the moment what these people were thinking (feeling, the attitudes of their hearts). This is how the prophets in the OT knew people's hearts (God revealed it to them in the moment) and is also how the apostles, after Jesus left, knew people's hearts. Just two examples of this in Acts:

1. When Ananias pretended to bring all the money from his sale before the apostles, Peter said to him, "Ananias, why has satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit...Why have you conceived this thing in your heart" (Acts 5:3-4).

2. Simon the sorcerer in Samaria became 'saved'... but his heart still desired fame. (He wasn't thinking in his head consciously, "I want to have this authority to call down the Holy Spirit"; he was thinking/desiring it in his heart.) When he asked Peter and John to give him the power (authority) to call down the Spirit to fill people, then Peter saw this hidden area of his heart. Here is Peter's rebuke to him in which you will note that Peter not only discerns Simon's heart but also discerns God's will for Simon (all this happened in the moment, not because Peter somehow knew Simon whom he'd just met): "Your money perish with you, because you thought that the gift of God could be purchased with money! You have neither part nor portion in this matter, for your heart is not right in the sight of God. Repent, therefore, of this your wickedness, and pray God if perhaps the thought of your heart may be forgiven you. For I see that you are poisoned by bitterness and bound by iniquity" (A8:20-23).

If you must consult the Greek Lexicon or Strong's Concordance, please do so. Almost all Peter's words there are saying in present tense, "I am looking and seeing inside your heart and what you are thinking (desiring) in there." Most poisons are known to work from the inside, not on the outside. Peter was seeing the poison of bitterness (rebellion against God) in Simon and his continued bondage to sin. (This is a very good passage, by the way, for people who think that if you are saved, you can't have parts of you still in the grip or bondage of satan and sin.) In the same way that Peter (and later Paul (Acts 13)) was present tense looking into and seeing the heart (not reading the mind) of Simon, Jesus also in the moment saw into and so perceived (not heard but understood, acquired, apprehended) the thoughts (attitudes) of the people around Him. He was able to call the religious sons of satan not because He past tense knew they would kill Him but because He was present tense looking into their hearts. This is hard to miss in His bold words against them: "Why do you not understand My speech? Because you are not able to listen to My word (hardened hearts). You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do (note: present tense). He was a murderer form the beginning" (Jn. 8:43-44).

I only talk about what I know, Kerry. Rather than assuming that I'm wrong, you should probably heed the saying: "If you don't know, you better ax somebody."

 

[Allin]

Re: Soul = Person, Life: Functional, Not Metaphysical Term

An interesting discourse, Allin.
I haven't found it necessary to find that 2 = 3 in the Bible! For example the oneness of God and the threeness of God do not address the same matter (one essence, 3 persons). Calling the Holy Spirit 7 Spirits does seem strange in Revelation, though it has explanation from Isaiah 11
2 And the Spirit of Jehovah shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of Jehovah.

I don't know of any Bible passage that enumerates the parts of man using the number 3.

As to the creation of man, what do you think of the relationship of nishmah to ruach? Probably many who read that interpret nishmah as spirit, though it is not ruach. Do they overlap in meaning? For example, Gen 7:22 on the flood says:

"all in whose nostrils was the breath [nishmah] of the spirit [ruach] of life, of all that was on the dry land, died [mētu]."
I note that a Hebrew lexicon claims that nishmah may (also) refer to spirit. And of course it is well-known that ruach may mean breath, wind, or spirit.

‏כל אשר נשמת רוח חיים באפיו מכל אשר בחרבה מתו​

I never consult the extra-biblical books (Lexicon, Concordance, etc.) partly because I have enough in my head already but mostly because I learn differently from a lot of people. As Elihu said, "I am young in years, and you are very old; therefore, I was afraid and dared not declare my opinion to you. I said, 'Age should speak, and the multitude of years should teach wisdom.' But there is a spirit in man, and the breath of the Almighty gives him understanding. Great men are not always wise, nor do the aged always understand justice" (Job 32:6-9). I have found this to be true. So, I don't know by translation what nismach and ruach mean (well, I do, but I don't study it). I do know that the word 'spirit' has different meanings and if we lean on the translations alone, we must remember that the Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek couldn't have specific words for every single specific thing (just like not every emotion has a name though most do). All earthly language is limited when delving into spiritual things. Jesus used parables (spiritual language) because Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek weren't enough even back then.

You said, "I don't know of any Bible passage that enumerates the parts of man using the number 3." The passage that immediately came to mind for me is this one: "May God Himself, the God of peace, sanctify you through and through. May your whole spirit, soul, and body be kept blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ" (1Thess. 5:23). And yes, as much as it goes counter to what we're used to, in the spirit, mathematics are no longer what we're accustomed to. Physics and quantum physics are a good example of this. In spiritual things, one can actually one hundred, and two can be three. This cannot be explained except spiritually so I won't even try. The Bible talks about seven Spirits of God; that is not what Isa. 11 is talking about as so many try to stretch six character traits into seven Spirits but fail. It's a different world of things with different language. We're not going to understand it with our natural minds which all Christians still have.

If Paul was writing only about unbelievers here, he could not have followed it by rebuking the Corinthians for being 'carnal-minded': "These things we also speak, not in words which man's wisdom teaches (not with earthly language) but which the Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual (explaining spiritual things with spiritual language). But the carnal man does not receive (cannot hold on to) the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him (to him they are complete nonsense); nor can he know them (can't approve or apprehend or hold on to them), because they are spiritually discerned (apprehended, grasped only by the renewed spirit in a Christian, not by his natural mind)" (1Cor. 2:13-14). Paul is addressing the carnal mind in people, primarily the Christians he is addressing. He proves this: right after talking spiritual vs. carnal, Paul follows immediately by saying to the Corinthians, "I, brethren, could not speak to you as to spiritual people but as to carnal, as to babes in Christ. I fed you with milk and not solid food; for until now you were unable to receive it, and even now you are still unable, for you are still carnal" (1Cor. 3:1-3). Carnal Christians can't grasp spiritual things, because they are still thinking with their natural minds as Christians do who are still in baby stage. The natural mind is not bad here (most people think the Bible is down on the carnal mind but there, again, is another word or term that has more than one meaning); it just is unable to learn or understand the things of God. Man, I sure hope that makes sense. My fingers hurt typing all this.

 

[Kerry]

Dang, I didn't know that I was that smart. to have a collegiate break down my three sentences into 3 paragraphs. Keep looking and maybe in five sentences you can publish a book.

 

[GaryA]

My Two Cents (The myth of "head" vs "heart" knowledge, post #83)

 

[GaryA]

My Two Cents (The myth of "head" vs "heart" knowledge, post #83)

Or, better yet...

My Two Cents (The myth of "head" vs "heart" knowledge, post #108)

( Sorry I didn't give the better link on the previous post. )

 

[The_highwayman]

no, it just illustrates the ignorance of Paul about what the Holy spirit was. Even Jesus did not understand it, He thought of god as His real father, but He thought of the Holy Spirit, as His mother. the holy spirit is not a being, it is used by god just as we use radio waves, TV waves, cell phones, and remote controls. If I had not had experience with those modern day items i wouldn't understand it either. For instance, suppose there could be a way to take 2 cell phones back 3,000 years, and have them work. If someone heard someone speaking to them from the cell phone, they would naturally think that the cell phone, was a person. same problem with the Holy
Spirit.

It is better to be of a quiet spirit and be thought a fool, that open your mouth and remove all doubt.

 

[Allin]

Dang, I didn't know that I was that smart. to have a collegiate break down my three sentences into 3 paragraphs. Keep looking and maybe in five sentences you can publish a book.

The area of the soul is vast enough; doctors and psychologists often admit they don't know everything about just the mental arena. The realm of the spirit is much more vast. We don't need any more books; we need more effect. When knowledge applied has effect, then it is real knowledge; but if it is applied and has no effect, then it is just learning. I prefer real knowledge to learning; effect is very important in our times.

 

[Allin]

My Two Cents (The myth of "head" vs "heart" knowledge, post #83)

The poster wrote:

"head knowledge" is based on the "intellect" of the mind.
"heart knowledge" is based on the "feelings"/"desires" of the heart.

In the Bible, the usage of the words 'heart' and 'soul' have [somewhat] different meanings, depending on the context of scripture.

However - in most cases, if not all, where the idea of "thoughts of the heart" is represented -- it is referring to the feelings/desires of the heart --- mostly, desires (intents) of the heart.

That's right on. Thoughts in the head and thoughts in the heart are as different as the conscious mind is from the subconscious mind but can be linked as 'both minds' are linked. The head (conscious) thinks with words; the heart (subconscious) thinks by feeling, believing, desiring, discriminating.

 

[Dan58]

You're soul is you, your body, characteristics, and persona. Your spirit is the intellect of your soul. jmo

 

[RickyZ]

My impression has been that you have a body, you have a spirit, and your soul is formed by the interface of the two. That is why when your body dies your soul "passes" too, but as your spirit is reunited with your new body, so then your soul will be restored as well.

 

[TruthisPower]

Its your body there are 52 scriptures i believe in the bible about soul read them and be a master on this subject

If i wanted i could kill your soul