The image of the beast might not be a statue.

[mj007]

Lol a demonically possessed android?

I think it's very simple if you think about it;

A computer is devoid and incapable of love. A computer is devoid of spiritual capacity and capability. A computer can only be built to synthesize thought like the thought of man, it can never be programmed to have real empathy or compassion, only synthesized.

The most dangerous human beings are those who can be programmed to act in exactly the same way. A suicide bomber is programmed to be as such.

But which is more dangerous, a computer than you can program to kill people and will never ever question it, or a person who might possibly question the morality of it?

Is it loving to create a fake human? Or are such things more about power and control? They certainly always fall into the hands of those who will use it for power and control, and already are.

Interesting that the English has it add up to 666. I have seen sites that have the Hebrew add it up to 666 as well.

I'm not totally convinced that the "beast" will be a demonically possessed android, especially AFTER it suffers it's mortal wound, but it certainly looks to me that man's manipulation with "knowledge" via computers, is going to be instrumental in the evil one's plan.

The well known APPLE icon, that really started the explosion of personal computing, has a rainbow colored apple WITH a bite taken out of it.

I don't know how this clear finger poking into God's Eye, can be missed.

 

[Willie-T]

I think, in general, that many times we severely limit the vast scope of things the Bible is showing us because of our narrow thinking, thereby restricting ourselves to the "literal" descriptions expressed....... especially in the Book of Revelation.

I certainly am opposed to all the imaginative inventions we often conjure out of our minds, and prefer to read simply what is written, rather than incorporate all sorts of wild presumptions into God's word. But, I also believe we are expected to use the brains God gave us.

I have actually heard people say that Satan's persistent opposition to the church (The Beast) is going to be a real African lion, running around, gobbling up people.

 

[Willie-T]

Interesting that the English has it add up to 666. I have seen sites that have the Hebrew add it up to 666 as well.

I'm not totally convinced that the "beast" will be a demonically possessed android, especially AFTER it suffers it's mortal wound, but it certainly looks to me that man's manipulation with "knowledge" via computers, is going to be instrumental in the evil one's plan.

The well known APPLE icon, that really started the explosion of personal computing, has a rainbow colored apple WITH a bite taken out of it.

I don't know how this clear finger poking into God's Eye, can be missed.

If this were true, and you actually believed it (which I don't think you do) the natural question to be posed would be... "Then why are you people who believe this, typing on a computer right this minute?" In fact, "Why do you even own one?"

 

[PennEd]

If this were true, and you actually believed it (which I don't think you do) the natural question to be posed would be... "Then why are you people who believe this, typing on a computer right this minute?" In fact, "Why do you even own one?"

Well there's really a couple different questions here. What I believe. What I think are speculative possibilities. And why would I "use" a device ultimately purposed for evil.

So the core Gospel message is something I fully believe and never compromise on. We both know what that is.

I have certain thoughts, leanings, and opinions on a whole range of Biblical issues. End times, and prophecy is no exception. I'd like people to see things my way, but I'd rather be dead wrong on all of it then let it cause any strife between my brothers and sisters in Christ. (Not suggesting you are slightly doing that, just in general).

I take the Bible seriously, I know you do as well but I use that word because if I say "literally" I open up a big messy can of worms.LOL

Scripture uses MANY different types of figures of speech. Analogies, parables, similitudes, sarcasm, metaphors, and more.

The trick is to figure out what is literal, and what is a figure of speech. My general rule of thumb is that unless Scripture is clear on it being a figure of speech, I should take it at face value.
For instance, were thee literally 2 people that were created to promulgate the whole human race, or is that just figurative?
There are scores and scores of decisions like that we have to make. Things like a giant boat holding all the world's animals, a sea spreading open and the ground being dry and then closing up after the last person crossed, a talking donkey, a man in the belly of a whale 3 days being vomited to shore. There are those that want to make Christ's resurrection a metaphor. (not saying you)

So a lot of times the author will say "like unto" something. That would be a clear indication that this is meant as an analogy of something else. Gotta go back to work> I'll finish in a bit.

 

[Ahwatukee]

[SUP]"[/SUP]And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority." (Revelation 13:2 KJV)

Just a question Nehemiah. Do you actually believe that a statue can speak and cause people to be killed? (Verse 15 as you quoted)

Greetings Unobtrusive,

First of all in order to come to a right conclusion we must look at all of the details in the context.

Rev.19:20 states that after Christ returns to the earth to end the age, the beast along with the false prophet (the two of them) will be captured and thrown alive into the lake of fire. This would demonstrate that both the beast and the false prophet are beings, entities, persons. That said, the image, based on the word eikon, will be an exact representation of the beast. And as Nehemiah6 pointed out, the word infers and idolatrous statue which again, will be in the exact likeness of the beast.

Now, here is my take on what John could have witnessed in his vision. Today we have robots that look very human and that can also carry on a conversation with you, their eyebrows move, as well as lips and are able to make facial expressions. John says that the false prophet will be able to "give life to the image so that it was able to speak."

That said, I believe that with our current technology, that the image may be the outer container being in the exact representation of the beast which houses a computer system, which could process all of the transactions of the mark of the beast. When John says that the image speaks, he may have been hearing a computer generated voice and thereby attributing life to it. For example, if John was able to hear a GPS giving instructions, he might attribute it to being alive. After all, he would hear it speaking.

I also believe that the abomination of Dan.9:27 and Matt.24:15, are synonymous with the image of the beast in Revelation. I believe that it could be this image that is set up in the holy place in the middle of the seven years within the temple.

This of course is all speculation on my part, as there is no way to verify that. But I think that it is a good possibility.

 

[Alertandawake]

I have even entertained the thought that our technology was possibly no different than it was before the flood during the time of Noah.

I have at times wondered this myself if in the days of Noah before the flood if there was some kind of advanced society like there is today. It is a possibility. Let us look at today's society and where we are headed, and looking at scripture in comparison, I am seeing our current time period very much like the days of Noah.

 

[mj007]

I think the reference is to artificially intelligent computers, not computers as tools. However, in the computer world of communication like we communicate here, there is a big difference to real world interaction. One of us could be an AI and how would we know the difference? Many people talk predictably online.

The most predictable machine like thing online about the way people communicate, they very rarely talk about love, or want to engage directly with it as 'present', like God is always present (and God is Love).

If this were true, and you actually believed it (which I don't think you do) the natural question to be posed would be... "Then why are you people who believe this, typing on a computer right this minute?" In fact, "Why do you even own one?"

 

[PennEd]

Well there's really a couple different questions here. What I believe. What I think are speculative possibilities. And why would I "use" a device ultimately purposed for evil.

So the core Gospel message is something I fully believe and never compromise on. We both know what that is.

I have certain thoughts, leanings, and opinions on a whole range of Biblical issues. End times, and prophecy is no exception. I'd like people to see things my way, but I'd rather be dead wrong on all of it then let it cause any strife between my brothers and sisters in Christ. (Not suggesting you are slightly doing that, just in general).

I take the Bible seriously, I know you do as well but I use that word because if I say "literally" I open up a big messy can of worms.LOL

Scripture uses MANY different types of figures of speech. Analogies, parables, similitudes, sarcasm, metaphors, and more.

The trick is to figure out what is literal, and what is a figure of speech. My general rule of thumb is that unless Scripture is clear on it being a figure of speech, I should take it at face value.
For instance, were thee literally 2 people that were created to promulgate the whole human race, or is that just figurative?
There are scores and scores of decisions like that we have to make. Things like a giant boat holding all the world's animals, a sea spreading open and the ground being dry and then closing up after the last person crossed, a talking donkey, a man in the belly of a whale 3 days being vomited to shore. There are those that want to make Christ's resurrection a metaphor. (not saying you)

So a lot of times the author will say "like unto" something. That would be a clear indication that this is meant as an analogy of something else. Gotta go back to work> I'll finish in a bit.

OK.It's a little longer than "a Bit" LOL

So now to address using a computer, a device I believe will be, and is, instrumentally used for evil.

Well, we live in a completely fallen reality. The whole of creation groans under the weight of the fall. Everything from our food and water, to our governments are tainted, and impure from this fall. But we're here. We have to live and use the broken things of this world every day.
We can choose to use them for God's purposes. Things like money, food and technology to spread His Gospel. Which, at the end of the day, is the ONLY thing that matters to build His Eternal Kingdom.

So yeah, I use computers. Is it really such a stretch to think that THE anti-christ could be a computer/human/demonic hybrid?

Do you really think it's a coincidence that Apple chose a rainbow colored apple, with a bite taken out of it as it's moniker?

It is beyond staggering to me to think of the incredible power, and the very short time it has exploded, that we hold in the palm of our hand!

I can know virtually ANY fact, watch how to perform ANY task, communicate with someone 12,000 miles away, and countless other activities, in a split second, merely by talking into something the size of a deck of cards! It's crazy!

TRULY having the tree of knowledge.

It seems so clear to me. But, as I've said, I depend on the Blood of Christ for salvation, and not end times interpretation.

 

[dcontroversal]

I think that the dragon gives power to the beast.

And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him? (Revelation 13:4 KJV)

And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads. (Revelation 12:3 KJV)

And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads (plural) the name of blasphemy. (Revelation 13:1 KJV)

As we can see, both the dragon and the beast have the same power.

Obviously the source of the beast's power is the dragon (Satan)

 

[dcontroversal]

I have at times wondered this myself if in the days of Noah before the flood if there was some kind of advanced society like there is today. It is a possibility. Let us look at today's society and where we are headed, and looking at scripture in comparison, I am seeing our current time period very much like the days of Noah.

Originally Posted by unobtrusive

I have even entertained the thought that our technology was possibly no different than it was before the flood during the time of Noah.


I personally believe this to be the case and possibly more advanced than we are today....Solomon said there is nothing new under the sun, that which is GOING to be has already been.....God destroyed the old world by water and buried most ancient cities an technologies at he bottom of the oceans and seas of the world....Civilizations have come and gone and disappeared off the face of the earth, EVEN with modern technology most will admit we could not build the Pyramid of Giza....Cities in Pakistan and India show signs of vitrification and ancient texts speaks to men making war fro the air with terrible weapons of fire....we see Hieroglyphs of two headed dogs and all sorts of anomalies genetically that is and today we see some of the same things being done through genetic manipulation and surgery....I believe it is entirely possible and even probable that before the flood and maybe even throughout history that society was as advanced as we are now and through war or decreed destruction like the flood these societies were removed from the earth....for hose who will cite Daniel and knowledge being increased....that implies in our day and does not deal with what has been......

Not that this can be a good source, but I have heard of friends who know navy seals that state that the bottom of the oceans are filled with technology, cities etc. that cannot be explained.....

just saying.....

 

[Ahwatukee]

I have at times wondered this myself if in the days of Noah before the flood if there was some kind of advanced society like there is today. It is a possibility. Let us look at today's society and where we are headed, and looking at scripture in comparison, I am seeing our current time period very much like the days of Noah.

Good day Alerandawake,

Regarding that there was some kind of advanced society, I would disagree and that because of the following:

"But you, Daniel, keep this prophecy a secret; seal up the book until the time of the end, when many will rush here and there, and knowledge will increase.”

Regarding the end-times, the angel tells Daniel that in those days that knowledge will increase and which it most definitely has and in a very short period of time and will continue to do so. That knowledge would increase would infer that it was previously not at that level.

We must also remember that Satan and the other fallen angels, have greater intelligence and mathematical abilities far above the most intelligent men on the earth. For example, if there are such things as UFO's, which can make 90 degree turns on a dime while moving at unbelievable speeds and without having any kind of engine sound, then I would suggest that these are the creations of fallen angels and that for the purpose of deceiving mankind. Therefore, anything in the past that has been recovered, would not be from a past civilization, but from angelic technology.

 

[unobtrusive]

Originally Posted by unobtrusive

I have even entertained the thought that our technology was possibly no different than it was before the flood during the time of Noah.


I personally believe this to be the case and possibly more advanced than we are today....Solomon said there is nothing new under the sun, that which is GOING to be has already been.....God destroyed the old world by water and buried most ancient cities an technologies at he bottom of the oceans and seas of the world....Civilizations have come and gone and disappeared off the face of the earth, EVEN with modern technology most will admit we could not build the Pyramid of Giza....Cities in Pakistan and India show signs of vitrification and ancient texts speaks to men making war fro the air with terrible weapons of fire....we see Hieroglyphs of two headed dogs and all sorts of anomalies genetically that is and today we see some of the same things being done through genetic manipulation and surgery....I believe it is entirely possible and even probable that before the flood and maybe even throughout history that society was as advanced as we are now and through war or decreed destruction like the flood these societies were removed from the earth....for hose who will cite Daniel and knowledge being increased....that implies in our day and does not deal with what has been......

Not that this can be a good source, but I have heard of friends who know navy seals that state that the bottom of the oceans are filled with technology, cities etc. that cannot be explained.....

just saying.....

The way I understand it is that the clothes Jesus wore had no seams. That's high tech for that day and age as far as I'm concerned.

"Then the soldiers, when they had crucified Jesus, took his garments, and made four parts, to every soldier a part; and also his coat: now the coat was without seam, woven from the top throughout." (John 19:23)

 

[Alertandawake]

Technologically speaking, and going by the description of the relevant sections that describes the image of the beast, and going by Rev 19.20, and looking at the robot technology today, a robot replica can easily fit the description.

Looking at what scientists can do today with DNA splicing, genetic alteration, then the description of man-beasts like a centaur and a minotaur certainly fit the description of advance genetic cross breeding of some kind.

Let us be blunt, today many people put their trust into computers, that is the reality of today. Computers are a great tool, but it is the too much reliance on computers that is the problem today.

 

[MarcR]

[SUP]"[/SUP]And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority." (Revelation 13:2 KJV)

Just a question Nehemiah. Do you actually believe that a statue can speak and cause people to be killed? (Verse 15 as you quoted)

I believe that Rv 13:2 is speaking of a man. The language of Rv 13:2 is figurative. Similar figurative language is applied to Jesus when He is refered to as a lion or as a lamb, or with a sword coming out of his mouth.

The image in any case is not the beast and is likely a statue.

If Balam's donkey was able to converse with him, a speaking statue is not so far fetched.

 

[Ahwatukee]

I believe that Rv 13:2 is speaking of a man. The language of Rv 13:2 is figurative. Similar figurative language is applied to Jesus when He is refered to as a lion or as a lamb, or with a sword coming out of his mouth.

The image in any case is not the beast and is likely a statue.

If Balam's donkey was able to converse with him, a speaking statue is not so far fetched.

Good day MarcR,

Regarding the image of the beast speaking and being attributed with being alive, please see post #25