The Israel of God

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unclefester

Guest
BYW - Don't you think that 'unclefester' is mature enough to deal with this issue when he is addressed personally? Maybe you don't feel he is intellectually adequate and spirtually fit to respond and defend his own faith. But if he is, then allow him the opportunity, unless he depends on you for these kind of things.
Just in case you're worried I missed this. Like water off a ducks back Red. My empathy for you is far greater than any anger you could hope to arouse. Your frustration is born out of your own stubbornness. Nothing new under the sun. Delve a bit into Darby and Scofield one of these days. See what the Spirit discerns for you.
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
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Just in case you're worried I missed this. Like water off a ducks back Red. My empathy for you is far greater than any anger you could hope to arouse. Your frustration is born out of your own stubbornness. Nothing new under the sun. Delve a bit into Darby and Scofield one of these days. See what the Spirit discerns for you.
just don't tell anybody you're more intellectually adequate than me < my phone is smarter than both of us put together, eh?

Redster will get it one day;)



CAR!
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
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The Israel of God
(Galatians 6:16)

by Michael Marlowe, Dec. 2004.

14 ἐμοὶ δὲ μὴ γένοιτο καυχᾶσθαι εἰ μὴ ἐν τῷ σταυρῷ τοῦ κυρίου ἡμῶν Ἰησοῦ Χριστοῦ, δι᾽ οὗ ἐμοὶ κόσμος ἐσταύρωται κἀγὼ κόσμῳ. 15 οὔτε γὰρ περιτομή τί ἐστιν οὔτε ἀκροβυστία, ἀλλὰ καινὴ κτίσις. 16 καὶ ὅσοι τῷ κανόνι τούτῳ στοιχήσουσιν, εἰρήνη ἐπ᾽ αὐτοὺς καὶ ἔλεος, καὶ ἐπὶ τὸν Ἰσραὴλ τοῦ θεοῦ.

14 But far be it from me to boast, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, through which the world hath been crucified unto me, and I unto the world. 15 For neither is circumcision anything, nor uncircumcision, but a new creation. 16 And as many as shall walk by this rule, peace be upon them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God.




The proper interpretation and translation of the last phrase in Galatians 6:16 has become a matter of controversy in the past century or so. Formerly it was not a matter of controversy. With few exceptions, "The Israel of God" was understood as a name for the Church here. [1] The καὶ ("and") which precedes the phrase ἐπὶ τὸν Ἰσραὴλ τοῦ θεοῦ ("upon the Israel of God") was understood as an explicative καὶ. This understanding of the grammar is reflected in the Revised Standard Version's "Peace and mercy be upon all who walk by this rule, upon the Israel of God," and in the New International Version's "even to the Israel of God." It is not necessary, however, to understand the καὶ as an explicative in order to get substantially the same sense. If it be regarded as an ordinary connective καὶ, as Marvin Vicent says, "The ὅσοι ['as many as'] will refer to the individual Christians, Jewish and Gentile, and Israel of God to the same Christians, regarded collectively, and forming the true messianic community." (Word Studies in the New Testament vol. 4, p. 180). So the rendering "and upon the Israel of God" (KJV and others) is acceptable enough, if it is not misunderstood. In any case, it seems clear that in this verse Paul cannot be pronouncing a benediction upon persons who are not included in the phrase "as many as shall walk by this rule" (the rule of boasting only in the cross). The entire argument of the epistle prevents any idea that here in 6:16 he would give a blessing to those who are not included in this group.

The phrase has become controversial because the traditional interpretation conflicts with principles of interpretation associated with Dispensationalism. Dispensationalists are interested in maintaining a sharp distinction between "Israel" and "the Church" across a whole range of theological matters pertaining to prophecy, ecclesiology, and soteriology. They are not comfortable with the idea that here Paul is using the phrase "Israel of God" in a sense that includes Gentiles, because this undermines their contention that "the Church" is always carefully distinguished from "Israel" in Scripture. This is a major tenet of dispensationalist hermeneutics. C.I. Scofield in his tract, Rightly Dividing the Word of Truth (New York, Loizeaux Brothers, 1888) wrote, "Comparing, then, what is said in Scripture concerning Israel and the Church, [a careful Bible student ] finds that in origin, calling, promise, worship, principles of conduct, and future destiny--all is contrast." Likewise Charles Ryrie in his book Dispensationalism Today (Chicago, 1965) explained that the "basic premise of Dispensationalism is two purposes of God expressed in the formation of two peoples who maintain their distinction throughout eternity." (pp. 44-45).

The Israel of God (Galatians 6:16) < click


etc etc

do we have this sorted out yet?


do we have this sorted out yet?:D
 

iamsoandso

Senior Member
Oct 6, 2011
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Isaiah,,65;18-25,,,,,,as in those who were on the other side of the flood,on the other side of Yellowstone,,,,,is this what you are explaining????,,,,
 

iamsoandso

Senior Member
Oct 6, 2011
8,048
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Isaiah,,65;18-25,,,,,,as in those who were on the other side of the flood,on the other side of Yellowstone,,,,,is this what you are explaining????,,,,
of the 6 members viewing 1 of the 2 using tor i am directly asking you,,,,,
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
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of the 6 members viewing 1 of the 2 using tor i am directly asking you,,,,,
Isaiah,,65;18-25,,,,,,as in those who were on the other side of the flood,on the other side of Yellowstone,,,,,is this what you are explaining????,,,,

i'm viewing at the moment but don't know what you are asking.
 

vic1980

Senior Member
Apr 25, 2013
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Isaiah,,65;18-25,,,,,,as in those who were on the other side of the flood,on the other side of Yellowstone,,,,,is this what you are explaining????,,,,
Isaiah 65

New Heavens and Earth

17For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.
18But be ye glad and rejoice for ever in that which I create: for, behold, I create Jerusalem a rejoicing, and her people a joy.
19And I will rejoice in Jerusalem, and joy in my people: and the voice of weeping shall be no more heard in her, nor the voice of crying.
20There shall be no more thence an infant of days, nor an old man that hath not filled his days: for the child shall die an hundred years old; but the sinner being an hundred years old shall be accursed.
21And they shall build houses, and inhabit them; and they shall plant vineyards, and eat the fruit of them.
22They shall not build, and another inhabit; they shall not plant, and another eat: for as the days of a tree are the days of my people, and mine elect shall long enjoy the work of their hands.
23They shall not labour in vain, nor bring forth for trouble; for they are the seed of the blessed of the LORD, and their offspring with them.
24And it shall come to pass, that before they call, I will answer; and while they are yet speaking, I will hear. 25The wolf and the lamb shall feed together, and the lion shall eat straw like the bullock: and dust shall be the serpent's meat. They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain, saith the LORD.

God Bless
 

iamsoandso

Senior Member
Oct 6, 2011
8,048
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Isaiah,,65;18-25,,,,,,as in those who were on the other side of the flood,on the other side of Yellowstone,,,,,is this what you are explaining????,,,,

i'm viewing at the moment but don't know what you are asking.
i as you understand that the largest part of the forum is in private,i was suggested that i made no comment.,,,i do trust you zone,but bells and whistles went off on my end,,,,,(watch the bottom of the screen,6 viewers,2 guest,,,,but all 6 members screen names at times do not appear),,,look up tor.

the post you quoted was to this one based on a comment they made in the thread,,,that is something discussed elsewhere and,,,well as we all know the content of other discussions are private,,,,,there is the other side of the flood,and the other side of ?,,,,if i say to much more it may seem offensive and i do not mean it offensive,,,,,,
 

Yahshua

Senior Member
Sep 22, 2013
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I'd like to discuss Zechariah's prophecy; to dig through it and see what we find. For full disclosure I also don't believe the current commonwealth of Israel is the Israel of God but a gentile state that's assumed the name. Also for full disclosure I loves me all peoplez; and I love the Hebrew culture and heritage and language. Those who are descendants of this modern commonwealth are indeed Jewish or Israeli (whichever the proper term is; don't mean to offend)...like I'm American. I'm simply saying they're not The Israel of God.

----

I think it would be best to step back to chapter 7 to summarize what's going on in context, since that's where Zechariah begins prophesying again.

Zech 7
13 “‘When I called, they did not listen; so when they called, I would not listen,’ says the Lord Almighty. 14 ‘I scattered them with a whirlwind among all the nations, where they were strangers. The land they left behind them was so desolate that no one traveled through it. This is how they made the pleasant land desolate.’”
As far as I understand this is God speaking to them after a remnant of Israel was allowed to return to their land from captivity. The proof of this is in God - through Zech - explaining that he scattered them after their disobedience to leave the land desolate.

Zech 8
3 This is what the Lord says: “I will return to Zion and dwell in Jerusalem. Then Jerusalem will be called the Faithful City, and the mountain of the Lord Almighty will be called the Holy Mountain.”

4 This is what the Lord Almighty says: “Once again men and women of ripe old age will sit in the streets of Jerusalem, each of them with cane in hand because of their age. 5 The city streets will be filled with boys and girls playing there.”

6 This is what the Lord Almighty says: “It may seem marvelous to the remnant of this people at that time, but will it seem marvelous to me?” declares the Lord Almighty.

13 Just as you, Judah and Israel, have been a curse[a] among the nations, so I will save you, and you will be a blessing. Do not be afraid, but let your hands be strong.”


Here God is declaring that Jerusalem will be restored to a measure of glory (as well as normalcy) which will seem amazing to the people but not really to God. The rest of the chapter explains the Temple to be built ("herod's"), and that the land will be fruitful...but what's interesting is Judah and Israel are identified here separately...there's even a distinction made between Judah, and Jerusalem (the land).

Recall that Ephraim was blessed by Jacob with the right to carry the name "Israel", and when the kingdom split Ephraim took the name "Kingdom of Israel" while Judah took the name "Kingdom of Judah".

Zech 8:22-23
22 And many peoples and powerful nations will come to Jerusalem [the land] to seek the Lord Almighty and to entreat him.”

23 This is what the Lord Almighty says: “In those days ten people from all languages and nations will take firm hold of one Jew by the hem of his robe and say, ‘Let us go with you, because we have heard that God is with you.’”
This is quite the prosperity prophesied for the remnant who returned...but note that this is still about the first return of God's people from captivity (before Herod's Temple and the time of Christ), not about a second return after Christ.

Zech 9
A mongrel people will occupy Ashdod,
and I will put an end to the pride of the Philistines.
7 I will take the blood from their mouths,
the forbidden food from between their teeth.
Those who are left will belong to our God
and become a clan in Judah
,
and Ekron will be like the Jebusites.
8 But I will encamp at my temple
to guard it against marauding forces.
Never again will an oppressor overrun my people,
for now I am keeping watch.
The prophecy continues explaining how the success of the the remnant will purify the land and those GENTILES who remain will become part of Judah...but still, as evident in verse 8, this is talking about the time of the 2nd Temple. And from verse 9-12 we're then given that famous bit of prophecy about Christ riding in on a donkey and how he will proclaim peace, as well as how the blood of the covenant will set captives free. Then Verse 13-17 speaks about Christ's second coming like flashes of lightning and how his people will shine like jewels in his land. Obviously this part hasn't happened yet, but note how we skip from his first coming to his second in just a few verses...so be aware this may happen again during later passages.

Zech 10

This chapter is more embellishment of the prophecy of the lord to come; It summarizes how the shepherds will first deceive the flock, and then how the Lord will come from Judah...

4 From Judah will come the cornerstone,
from him the tent peg,
from him the battle bow,
from him every ruler.
5 Together they[a] will be like warriors in battle
trampling their enemy into the mud of the streets.
They will fight because the Lord is with them,
and they will put the enemy horsemen to shame.
The last portion of the passage above (I believe) prophesies the Apostles & disciples of Christ who will trample and put their enemies to shame "like" warriors. Next verses 6-8 speak of the Ephraimites (the largest tribe of Israel, and the one's who bear the right to the name "Israel") and how they will *also* become "like" warriors and rejoice...So this means they've accepted the gospel too. They will also be gathered.

I will strengthen Judah
and save the tribes of Joseph.
I will restore them
because I have compassion on them.
They will be as though
I had not rejected them
,
for I am the Lord their God
and I will answer them.
7 The Ephraimites will become like warriors,
and their hearts will be glad as with wine.
Their children will see it and be joyful;
their hearts will rejoice in the Lord.
8 I will signal for them
and gather them in.
Surely I will redeem them;
they will be as numerous as before.

9 Though I scatter them among the peoples,
yet in distant lands they will remember me.
They and their children will survive,
and they will return.

10 I will bring them back from Egypt
and gather them from Assyria.
I will bring them to Gilead and Lebanon,
and there will not be room enough for them.
11 They will pass through the sea of trouble;
the surging sea will be subdued
and all the depths of the Nile will dry up.
Assyria’s pride will be brought down
and Egypt’s scepter will pass away.
12 I will strengthen them in the Lord
and in his name they will live securely,”
declares the Lord.
But Continuing from verses 9-12, the prophecy explains that the largest of tribe of Israel is still scattered by the time the "warriors" of Christ appear but that because of Christ's warriors that tribe will remember God while scattered. Again, like in chapter 9, the prophecy seems to skip to the end, evidence by the last verse; living securely in Christ's name (i.e. peace).

Zech 11
Verses 1-3 continue a declaration of victory (of sorts) from the prophecy, speaking of the fire that will burn the trees. This is the same poetic imagery in Malachi as well as similar words John the baptist used in Matthew 3:12. So this is clearly a prophecy of the Christ and the gospel.

But in verse 4 we get into details of a *flock* marked for slaughter (not just a lamb marked for slaughter). However, before reading the following passage, just notice that much of what Zechariah has detailed has been fulfilled in exact order: a remnant returning to the land, a 2nd temple, a measure of glory restored, many gentiles grafted into Judah, Christ's 1st appearance, the apostles and blood of covenant sets people free, that message spreading to those still scattered, but that message burning up those who are to be burned...and now we have a flock marked for slaughter...

Zech 11:4-8
4 This is what the Lord my God says: “Shepherd the flock marked for slaughter. 5 Their buyers slaughter them and go unpunished. Those who sell them say, ‘Praise the Lord, I am rich!’ Their own shepherds do not spare them. 6 For I will no longer have pity on the people of the land,” declares the Lord. “I will give everyone into the hands of their neighbors and their king. They will devastate the land, and I will not rescue anyone from their hands.”

7 So I shepherded the flock marked for slaughter, particularly the oppressed of the flock. Then I took two staffs and called one Favor and the other Union, and I shepherded the flock. 8 In one month I got rid of the three shepherds.
So there are also shepherds of the flock who take advantage of the sheep for monetary gain and say "praise the lord, I'm rich!". Also, God's patience has been spent on the people of the land and he gives them over to the other nations, with language eerily similar to Daniel 9's Abomination of Desolation. It would make sense if these are similar prophecies because it follows the same order of events.

Zech 11:8-17
The flock detested me ["we have no king but Cesar! Crucify Him!" (Daniel 9:26)], and I grew weary of them 9 and said, “I will not be your shepherd. Let the dying die, and the perishing perish. Let those who are left eat one another’s flesh.”

10 Then I took my staff called Favor and broke it (war continued til end and desolation determined; Daniel 9:26), revoking the covenant I had made with all the nations . 11 It was revoked on that day, and so the oppressed of the flock who were watching me knew it was the word of the Lord.

12 I told them, “If you think it best, give me my pay; but if not, keep it.” So they paid me thirty pieces of silver (Judas betrayal).

13 And the Lord said to me, “Throw it to the potter”—the handsome price at which they valued me! So I took the thirty pieces of silver and threw them to the potter at the house of the Lord.

14 Then I broke my second staff called Union, breaking the family bond between Judah and Israel.

15 Then the Lord said to me, “Take again the equipment of a foolish shepherd. 16 For I am going to raise up a shepherd over the land who will not care for the lost, or seek the young, or heal the injured, or feed the healthy, but will eat the meat of the choice sheep, tearing off their hooves.

17 “Woe to the worthless shepherd,
who deserts the flock!
May the sword strike his arm and his right eye!
May his arm be completely withered,
his right eye totally blinded!”
There's a LOT that is explained in this chapter that lends itself to the next chapter.

1. "The flock" rejected God (contrarily, scattered Ephraim did not...so we're talking about Judah).
2. Because of this the peace with other nations ends (wars).
3. Judah's betrayal and Judas' betrayal
4. The UNION between Judah and Israel is broken (and remember who rightfully carries the name "Israel")
5. A *wicked* shepherd was place OVER THE LAND (Jerusalem) that's partially blinded.

So what we have here is Punishment on the "flock" that rejected God (which we know is rejecting Christ). Those who rightfully carry the name Israel are also those who've accepted the gospel & king...but they're broken away from Judah. So Judah is not Israel from this point forward.

Now Zech 12
12 A prophecy: The word of the Lord concerning Israel.

The Lord, who stretches out the heavens, who lays the foundation of the earth, and who forms the human spirit within a person, declares: 2 “I am going to make Jerusalem [THE LAND] a cup that sends all the surrounding peoples reeling. Judah [a people separated from Israel] will be besieged as well as Jerusalem [THE LAND].

3 On that day, when all the nations of the earth are gathered against her, I will make Jerusalem [THE LAND] an immovable rock for all the nations. All who try to move it will injure themselves.

4 On that day I will strike every horse with panic and its rider with madness,” declares the Lord. “I will keep a watchful eye over Judah, but I will blind all the horses of the nations. 5 Then the clans of Judah [a people separated from Israel] will say in their hearts, ‘The people of Jerusalem are strong, because the Lord Almighty is their God.' [i.e. a PROUD AND HAUGHTY heart]

6 “On that day I will make the clans of Judah [a people separated from Israel] like a firepot in a woodpile, like a flaming torch among sheaves [i.e. FIRE-STARTER]. They will consume all the surrounding peoples right and left, but Jerusalem [THE LAND] will remain intact in her place.
Remember that - as judgment from God - the land is given a wicked shepherd...over THE LAND. And the land will be a source of constant struggle. But notice verse 2...why would the prophecy say that BOTH the people of Judah "as well as" the land would be surrounded, instead of just saying the land would be surrounded? I strongly believe this somehow ties the the "wicked" shepherd over the land.

Remember who rightfully carries the name "Israel" at this point of the prophecy; Ephraim is still scattered by time of this prophecy even though they've received Christ with joy. This is a punishment of those who "detested" Christ (Zechariah 11:8). Also it says the clans that form Judah will be haughty and will start fires left and right.

Zech 12:7-9
7 “The Lord will save the dwellings of Judah first, so that the honor of the house of David and of Jerusalem’s [LAND] inhabitants may not be greater than that of Judah. 8 On that day the Lord will shield those who live in Jerusalem [THE LAND], so that the feeblest among them will be like David, and the house of David will be like God, like the angel of the Lord going before them. 9 On that day I will set out to destroy all the nations that attack Jerusalem [THE LAND].
The first thing to notice is that "the honor of the house David" and "Jerusalem's inhabitants" are completely contrasted from "Judah"...and the fact that the verse says "[so that the other groups] may not be *greater* than that of Judah" leads me to believe "the honor of the house of David" are those who've accepted Christ [i.e. possibly Ephraim. Even though David was of Judah, Christ has the throne of David], and "Jerusalem's inhabitants" are obviously non-Judah who still live in the land (by process of elimination).

So then Judah will be saved after a while...at which point, the nations will then be judged for attacking the land.

----

I think I'll stop here [I'm always so long worded lol].

So while not all of Zechariah 12 has been fulfilled (to BradC's credit), it appears these prophecies of Zechariah (up to and including chapter 12) actually prove The Jews are not the Israel of God (to the credit of Zone et. al), even though they may claim the name today.

Judah was broken off from "Israel" specifically for rejecting Christ, a wicked shepherd was placed over them, and the people and land were infiltrated to the point where they now start trouble with their neighbors...but this is temporary punishment, so Judah will be re-grafted back into "Israel" (Romans 11:25-32), some day. But mind you, it only needs to be a remnant of Judah that returns to God by accepting Christ and it'll still count (just like the first time a remnant returned).
 

iamsoandso

Senior Member
Oct 6, 2011
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Isaiah 65

New Heavens and Earth

17For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.
18But be ye glad and rejoice for ever in that which I create: for, behold, I create Jerusalem a rejoicing, and her people a joy.
19And I will rejoice in Jerusalem, and joy in my people: and the voice of weeping shall be no more heard in her, nor the voice of crying.
20There shall be no more thence an infant of days, nor an old man that hath not filled his days: for the child shall die an hundred years old; but the sinner being an hundred years old shall be accursed.
21And they shall build houses, and inhabit them; and they shall plant vineyards, and eat the fruit of them.
22They shall not build, and another inhabit; they shall not plant, and another eat: for as the days of a tree are the days of my people, and mine elect shall long enjoy the work of their hands.
23They shall not labour in vain, nor bring forth for trouble; for they are the seed of the blessed of the LORD, and their offspring with them.
24And it shall come to pass, that before they call, I will answer; and while they are yet speaking, I will hear. 25The wolf and the lamb shall feed together, and the lion shall eat straw like the bullock: and dust shall be the serpent's meat. They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain, saith the LORD.

God Bless
Joshua 24;15,,,,"the other side of the flood",,,,Isaiah 65;23,,,"for they the seed of the blessed of the lord",,,on the other side of the next destruction,,,,,,,,,,
 

iamsoandso

Senior Member
Oct 6, 2011
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yes to say it bluntly there is the Israel of god,,,,and there is the,,,"image of the Israel of god set up by men and the command of the same men to worship it",,,,,,,,,two Israel's,,,,one mankind set up and another god set up,,,,one set of mankind worships one and the other the other,,,,,,
 

iamsoandso

Senior Member
Oct 6, 2011
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lol,,,,and neither of the 2 can see that they were not suppose to worship either,,,,,,,,but only god,,,
 
Jan 19, 2013
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Ok. Just making sure. Sme people could easily misrepresent when you said "all" to mean all people, jew or gentile

First, The distinction I was addressing was between "spiritual" Israel in Ro 2 and "physical" Israel in Ro 11.

I stated that the Israel of Ro 2 and 11 were the same, both were physical.

Secondly, I stated that all men, both Jew and Gentile, are unrighteous (Ro 3:10), apart from faith in Christ.

 
Jan 19, 2013
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Vehement hatred for a dead man that you don't even know and if this dead man was alive today you would swear by your own breath that he is evil and of the devil and you would be warning everyone, everywhere to beware. That is what you have done here and everyone who has departed from the truth has done the same. Everyone knows that you hate the man and will print anything you can get your hands on to discredit him. You will be judged in the same measure you judge, it shall be meted back to you again and that means two fold. Here is a dead man you are laying charges against that he can't answer for. You have that privilege to answer back but you take it away from him because he is dead. You are a scoffer.
This falls somewhat short of Biblical demonstration of any error.

Do you see the absurdity of your statement?
Because someone is dead, what they wrote is not to be challenged?

Death does not remove anyone from analysis and criticism of what they wrote.
No defense by the deceased is needed, what he wrote speaks for itself.
 
B

BradC

Guest
This falls somewhat short of Biblical demonstration of any error.

Do you see the absurdity of your statement?
Because someone is dead, what they wrote is not to be challenged?

Death does not remove anyone from analysis and criticism of what they wrote.
No defense by the deceased is needed, what he wrote speaks for itself.
Wake up Elin, the criticism is not just against what the man wrote but its the man. You can't separate the man from the words of a man anymore than you can separate God from his own word. By our words we will either be condemned or justified, and that is talking about the person who made the proclamations and declaration in word or in doctrine. Zone knows it and she is an example of it. Some of you need to study the doctrine of words and how they relate to the tongue that speaks forth what proceeds from the heart.
 
Jan 19, 2013
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Professing Christians are departing from the faith in many different ways all the time. They are being seduced away by denominational teachings, through the ways of the world they are drawn to, with doctrines of literal demons (devils) who utilize a systematic approach
Translate: who says the word of God is consistent, that God does not contradict himself?

Rather, consistency is a sign of demonic doctrine.

through the information they have gathered and categorized knowing and becoming familiar with the weaknesses, appetite and desires of the flesh, the tendencies of the adamic carnal mind through the fall and how people respond in their emotions to subjective stimuli that they constantly project.
Translate: and if it is consistent and in accordance with the Scriptures, then it is definitely of the appetite and desires of the flesh.

For the more unsystematic, inconsistent with Scripture and absurd it is, the more we know it is the truth of God.

So. . .how is that for standing God's truth on its head in favor of a lie (2Th 2:11)?
 
Jan 19, 2013
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Physician ... heal thyself. At a minimum, you and everybody else owes it to themselves (and to the very Word of God) to investigate the origins of the heresy(s) taught thru the teachings of Nelson Darby, Cyrus Scofield and a few others. Many spend more time researching the history of an automobile before purchasing it than they do the Word of God. And don't tell me or Zone ... or Sarah or Elin that you already have. Because we know that you haven't from the very nonsense you espouse on these threads. Seek the truth and you will find it. You are without excuse Brad.
Amen. . .and again, I say Amen. . .to that!
 
B

BradC

Guest
Pot, meet kettle. . .
When anyone moves away from sound doctrine that have done so with a foolish heart and with unbelief I have never moved away from any of the doctrine I have been taught by the Spirit in the local assembly and body of Christ. Forty years going strong in the grace and soundness of the doctrine of Christ, and there are some on this site that are dying to reveal some form of sin they believe to be part of my life to discredit me and make others think evil. You think you have the goods, go ahead and spill your guts and see if your own tongue turns against you. As far as some of you go, you have changed your doctrine and made yourself a prey to being moved and twisted away from the faith and that would be a fall from grace and truth. When a believer does that, it is very difficult to win them back and they get very arrogant and obstinate with the new doctrine they now have submitted themselves to. They have persuaded themselves with this new understanding against the truth and have incapacitated themselves from the mercy and grace of God that is given to those who are meek and lowly. Have fun with your new understanding and where it leads you.