The Israel of God
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H
I will not defend the garbage of Scofield and Ryrie nor the false "faith only" gospel message of the present day Disp.s. But what John Hagee say against Pres, Bush and others in power, is a real concern for America. If Amer. forsakes Israel, the curse of God will continue upon America. the churches that supported slavery in early Amer. cursed our country into the civil war, the churches that supported Hitter cursed Germany. We can not deny God's program for His Jewish nation and get away with it , God is cursing USA. I only support Israel's right to exist as a nation, but not the things that the secular or orthodox Jews do. I only finanically support the evangelism to bring the Gospel to the Jews, the elect of Israel, "the Israel of God" and Gentiles all over the world. The Bible tells of the terribles things God is going to bring upon future Israel, but that is not our falt, that is God's curse,We are not to promote it. I support Israel, not Russia and Iran. etc., We know, our support for Israel's rights will be a losing battle until Jesus sets up His Kingdom of Peace on earth for them and the whole world for 1,000 yrs.; without the kingdom of God come to earth, God would be a lair, He has promised it to the whole world. Love to all, espectially upon the Church of Christ. Hoffco
Pope Francis and the Old Covenant
The Apostolic Exhortation Evangelii Gaudium
By John Vennari
On Tuesday November 26, Pope Francis released his Apostolic Exhortation Evangelii Gaudium, “On the Proclamation of the Gospel in Today’s World”. It is a ponderous text of more than 51,000 words.
The document is guided by the new orientation of Vatican II, though it bears the personal stamp of Francis. For now, we will focus on one section of the Exhortation that deals today’s religion of Judaism.
Within the context of exhorting Catholics ever deeper into the ecumenical program, Pope Francis says: “We hold the Jewish people in special regard because their covenant with God has never been revoked, for ‘the gifts and the call of God are irrevocable’ (Rom 11:29). The Church, which shares with Jews an important part of the Sacred Scriptures, looks upon the people of the covenant and their faith as one of the sacred roots of her own Christian identity (cf. Rom 11:16-18). As Christians, we cannot consider Judaism as a foreign religion; nor do we include the Jews among those called to turn from idols and to serve the true God (cf. 1 Thes 1:9). With them, we believe in the one God[1] who acts in history, and with them we accept his revealed word.”[2]
There is no mention of any need for conversion to Christ and His Church.
Pope Francis effectively continues the program initiative by the Council, and brought to fruition by Popes John Paul II and Benedict XVI that the Old Covenant has not been superseded by the New. This is a novel concept that runs contrary to Sacred Scripture and to the perennial magisterium of the Church.
Pope Francis and the Old Covenant | None | Catholic Family News
....
their covenant with God has never been revoked
we cannot consider Judaism as a foreign religion
nor do we include the Jews among those called to turn from idols and to serve the true God
the Old Covenant has not been superseded by the New.
...
current entry on wikipedia...i would expect this to be updated:
Dual-covenant theology is a Christian view of the Old Covenant which holds that Jews may simply keep the "Law of Moses", because of the "everlasting covenant" (Genesis 17:13) between Abraham and God expressed in the Hebrew Bible, whereas Gentiles (those not Jews or Jewish proselytes) must convert to Christianity or alternatively accept the Seven Laws of Noah to be assured of a place in the World to Come.
Many forms of Christianity, especially Conservative Protestants, consider this view to be heresy. Alternative Christian views are that the "Law of Moses" has been superseded or abrogated. According to the Catechism of the Catholic Church, no. 1967, "The Law of the Gospel "fulfills," refines, surpasses, and leads the Old Law to its perfection."
Dual-covenant theology - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
What is the dialectic? It is something that is not easy to understand
when the concept is new to a person.
In the dialectic as seen by Hegel, there is first the thesis and then
its opposition, the anti-thesis, and finally the synthesis.
This opposition can be seen also as absolute truth or absolute
morality being the thesis, and emotional attachments to relationships
the anti-thesis. The synthesis in Transformational Marxism is a
victory for feelings, for relationships over absolute truth and
absolute morality.
The absolute truth given to us in scripture by God the Holy Spirit is
fact. But facts, as the thesis in a debate, can threaten people's
relationships. And people have strong feelings about their
relationships. Many Christians have strong feelings toward their
churches, their pastors and priests, and have loved ones in their
congregations.
When truth conflicts with feelings, the feelings are the anti-thesis.
Among the movements within American psychology of the fifties and
sixties that the Transformational Marxism led by the professors of the
German Frankfurt School made use of was the self psychology of Carl R.
Rogers and A.H. Maslow. Carl Rogers taught that feelings are most
important, and are more important than knowing or cognitive
competence. Rogers always referred his clients back to "what do you
feel?"
When the feelings of relationships with theologies, with
denominations, churches and people in these structures conflict with
the facts of scripture, then the dialectic process of argument against
the facts often begins.
Here is an example of a possible use of the dialectic to argue against
some of Paul's doctrines as part of his revelation given him by the
risen Christ (Acts 26: 15-18).
John Darby, the father of the man made theology called
dispensationalism, said that the
"Church has sought to settle itself here, but it has no place on the
earth... [Though] making a most constructive parenthesis, it forms no
part of the regular order of God's earthly plans, but is merely an
interruption of them to give a fuller character and meaning to
them..."
John. N. Darby, 'The Character of Office in The Present Dispensation'
Collected Writings., Eccl. I, Vol. I, p. 94.
.......
the "Church has sought to settle itself here, but it has no place on the earth... [Though] making a most constructive parenthesis, it [the Church] forms no part of the regular order of God's earthly plans, but is merely an interruption."
cont.
when the concept is new to a person.
In the dialectic as seen by Hegel, there is first the thesis and then
its opposition, the anti-thesis, and finally the synthesis.
This opposition can be seen also as absolute truth or absolute
morality being the thesis, and emotional attachments to relationships
the anti-thesis. The synthesis in Transformational Marxism is a
victory for feelings, for relationships over absolute truth and
absolute morality.
The absolute truth given to us in scripture by God the Holy Spirit is
fact. But facts, as the thesis in a debate, can threaten people's
relationships. And people have strong feelings about their
relationships. Many Christians have strong feelings toward their
churches, their pastors and priests, and have loved ones in their
congregations.
When truth conflicts with feelings, the feelings are the anti-thesis.
Among the movements within American psychology of the fifties and
sixties that the Transformational Marxism led by the professors of the
German Frankfurt School made use of was the self psychology of Carl R.
Rogers and A.H. Maslow. Carl Rogers taught that feelings are most
important, and are more important than knowing or cognitive
competence. Rogers always referred his clients back to "what do you
feel?"
When the feelings of relationships with theologies, with
denominations, churches and people in these structures conflict with
the facts of scripture, then the dialectic process of argument against
the facts often begins.
Here is an example of a possible use of the dialectic to argue against
some of Paul's doctrines as part of his revelation given him by the
risen Christ (Acts 26: 15-18).
John Darby, the father of the man made theology called
dispensationalism, said that the
"Church has sought to settle itself here, but it has no place on the
earth... [Though] making a most constructive parenthesis, it forms no
part of the regular order of God's earthly plans, but is merely an
interruption of them to give a fuller character and meaning to
them..."
John. N. Darby, 'The Character of Office in The Present Dispensation'
Collected Writings., Eccl. I, Vol. I, p. 94.
.......
the "Church has sought to settle itself here, but it has no place on the earth... [Though] making a most constructive parenthesis, it [the Church] forms no part of the regular order of God's earthly plans, but is merely an interruption."
cont.
John Darby, the father of the man made theology called
dispensationalism, said that the
"Church has sought to settle itself here, but it has no place on the
earth... [Though] making a most constructive parenthesis, it forms no
part of the regular order of God's earthly plans, but is merely an
interruption of them to give a fuller character and meaning to
them..."
John. N. Darby, 'The Character of Office in The Present Dispensation'
Collected Writings., Eccl. I, Vol. I, p. 94.
"Them" are all physical Israel. The church, for Darby exists to "give
fuller character and meaning to all physical Israel." Darby, known as
the Father of dispensationalism, thought that the purpose of the
Christian church, the ekklesia as a meeting, assembly or congregation
of Israel reborn in Christ, the Israel of God, made into The Body of
Christ like the Catholic capital C Church, was to honor all physical
Israel. The dispensationalists say that God's people the Jews are
earthy. They are involved in physical and literal things, like the
blood sacrifice of animals, a literal bloodline from Abraham,
circumcision, and a physical temple building.
Lewis S. Chafer, follower of C.I. Scofield and founder of Dallas
Theological Seminary, insists that dispensationalism:
"... has changed the Bible from being a mass of more or less conflicting
writings into a classified and easily assimilated revelation of both
the earthly and heavenly purposes of God, which reach on into eternity
to come.."
Lewis. S. Chafer, ‘Dispensationalism,’ Bibliotheca Sacra, 93 (October
1936), 410, 416, 446-447
cont.....
dispensationalism, said that the
"Church has sought to settle itself here, but it has no place on the
earth... [Though] making a most constructive parenthesis, it forms no
part of the regular order of God's earthly plans, but is merely an
interruption of them to give a fuller character and meaning to
them..."
John. N. Darby, 'The Character of Office in The Present Dispensation'
Collected Writings., Eccl. I, Vol. I, p. 94.
"Them" are all physical Israel. The church, for Darby exists to "give
fuller character and meaning to all physical Israel." Darby, known as
the Father of dispensationalism, thought that the purpose of the
Christian church, the ekklesia as a meeting, assembly or congregation
of Israel reborn in Christ, the Israel of God, made into The Body of
Christ like the Catholic capital C Church, was to honor all physical
Israel. The dispensationalists say that God's people the Jews are
earthy. They are involved in physical and literal things, like the
blood sacrifice of animals, a literal bloodline from Abraham,
circumcision, and a physical temple building.
Lewis S. Chafer, follower of C.I. Scofield and founder of Dallas
Theological Seminary, insists that dispensationalism:
"... has changed the Bible from being a mass of more or less conflicting
writings into a classified and easily assimilated revelation of both
the earthly and heavenly purposes of God, which reach on into eternity
to come.."
Lewis. S. Chafer, ‘Dispensationalism,’ Bibliotheca Sacra, 93 (October
1936), 410, 416, 446-447
cont.....
Lewis S. Chafer, follower of C.I. Scofield and founder of Dallas
Theological Seminary, insists that dispensationalism: "... has
changed the Bible from being a mass of more or less conflicting
writings into a classified and easily assimilated revelation of both
the earthly and heavenly purposes of God, which reach on into eternity
to come.."
Lewis. S. Chafer, ‘Dispensationalism,’ Bibliotheca Sacra, 93 (October
1936), 410, 416, 446-447
...
So, Chafer tells us that the man made theology called
dispensationalism made scripture into an "easily assimilated" system.
And since this man made theology is easier to understand and remember
than the complexity of scripture, with some disagreements between
teachings under thd Old Covenant with doctrines in the New Testament.
But in simplifying the doctrines of scripture, John Darby, C.I.
Scofield and Lewis S. Chafer themselves decided that physical Israel
remains God's chosen people, a man made doctrine that does not accept
or understand the transformation of physical Israel into an Israel
reborn in Jesus Christ (John 3: 1-7).
Charles Ryrie writes in his book, Dispensationalism Today (Moody,
1965, pp. 44, 45):
"The dispensationalist believes that throughout the ages God is
pursuing two distinct purposes: one related to the earth with earthly
people and earthly objectives involved which is Judaism; while the
other is related to heaven with heavenly people and heavenly
objectives involved, which is Christianity’ . . . This is probably the
most basic theological test of whether or not a man is a
dispensationalist, and it is undoubtedly the most practical and
conclusive. A man who fails to distinguish Israel and the Church will
inevitably not hold to dispensational distinctives; and the one who
does, will."
....
"throughout the ages God is pursuing two distinct purposes: one related to the earth with earthly people and earthly objectives involved which is Judaism; while the other is related to heaven with heavenly people and heavenly objectives involved, which is Christianity"
cont...
Theological Seminary, insists that dispensationalism: "... has
changed the Bible from being a mass of more or less conflicting
writings into a classified and easily assimilated revelation of both
the earthly and heavenly purposes of God, which reach on into eternity
to come.."
Lewis. S. Chafer, ‘Dispensationalism,’ Bibliotheca Sacra, 93 (October
1936), 410, 416, 446-447
...
So, Chafer tells us that the man made theology called
dispensationalism made scripture into an "easily assimilated" system.
And since this man made theology is easier to understand and remember
than the complexity of scripture, with some disagreements between
teachings under thd Old Covenant with doctrines in the New Testament.
But in simplifying the doctrines of scripture, John Darby, C.I.
Scofield and Lewis S. Chafer themselves decided that physical Israel
remains God's chosen people, a man made doctrine that does not accept
or understand the transformation of physical Israel into an Israel
reborn in Jesus Christ (John 3: 1-7).
Charles Ryrie writes in his book, Dispensationalism Today (Moody,
1965, pp. 44, 45):
"The dispensationalist believes that throughout the ages God is
pursuing two distinct purposes: one related to the earth with earthly
people and earthly objectives involved which is Judaism; while the
other is related to heaven with heavenly people and heavenly
objectives involved, which is Christianity’ . . . This is probably the
most basic theological test of whether or not a man is a
dispensationalist, and it is undoubtedly the most practical and
conclusive. A man who fails to distinguish Israel and the Church will
inevitably not hold to dispensational distinctives; and the one who
does, will."
....
"throughout the ages God is pursuing two distinct purposes: one related to the earth with earthly people and earthly objectives involved which is Judaism; while the other is related to heaven with heavenly people and heavenly objectives involved, which is Christianity"
cont...
This is probably the most basic theological test of whether or not a man is a dispensationalist, and it is undoubtedly the most practical and conclusive.
A man who fails to distinguish Israel and the Church will inevitably not hold to dispensational distinctives; and the one who does, will."
- Charles Ryrie Dispensationalism Today (Moody, 1965, pp. 44, 45):
A man who fails to distinguish Israel and the Church will inevitably not hold to dispensational distinctives; and the one who does, will."
- Charles Ryrie Dispensationalism Today (Moody, 1965, pp. 44, 45):
J. Dwight Pentecost is another dispensationalist theologian who in his
book Things To Come ( 1965) says
"The church and Israel are two distinct groups with whom God has a divine plan.
The church is a mystery, unrevealed in the Old Testament. This mystery
program must be completed before God can resume His program with
Israel and bring it to completion. These considerations all arise from
a literal method of interpretation."
(page 193, J. Dwight Pentecost, Things To Come, Zondervan, 1965).
Charles C. Ryrie (born 1925) says:
"basic promise of Dispensationalism is two purposes of God expressed
in the formation of two peoples who maintain their distinction
throughout eternity." Charles C. Ryrie, Dispensationalism Today,
1966, pp.44-45.
In his book, Dispensationalism (1966), Charles Ryrie says
"The essence of Dispensationalism, then, is the distinction between Israel
and the church." (page 3, "Dispensationalism")
"The nature of the church is a crucial point of difference between
classic, or normative, dispensationalism and other doctrinal systems.
Indeed, ecclesiology, or the doctrine of the church, is the touchstone
of dispensationalism(and also of pretribulationalism)."
(page 123, Charles Ryrie Dispensationalism (Chicago: Moody Press,
[1966], 1995)
cont...
"The essence of Dispensationalism, then, is the distinction between Israel and the church." (page 3, "Dispensationalism")
book Things To Come ( 1965) says
"The church and Israel are two distinct groups with whom God has a divine plan.
The church is a mystery, unrevealed in the Old Testament. This mystery
program must be completed before God can resume His program with
Israel and bring it to completion. These considerations all arise from
a literal method of interpretation."
(page 193, J. Dwight Pentecost, Things To Come, Zondervan, 1965).
Charles C. Ryrie (born 1925) says:
"basic promise of Dispensationalism is two purposes of God expressed
in the formation of two peoples who maintain their distinction
throughout eternity." Charles C. Ryrie, Dispensationalism Today,
1966, pp.44-45.
In his book, Dispensationalism (1966), Charles Ryrie says
"The essence of Dispensationalism, then, is the distinction between Israel
and the church." (page 3, "Dispensationalism")
"The nature of the church is a crucial point of difference between
classic, or normative, dispensationalism and other doctrinal systems.
Indeed, ecclesiology, or the doctrine of the church, is the touchstone
of dispensationalism(and also of pretribulationalism)."
(page 123, Charles Ryrie Dispensationalism (Chicago: Moody Press,
[1966], 1995)
cont...
"The essence of Dispensationalism, then, is the distinction between Israel and the church." (page 3, "Dispensationalism")
.....
This mystery program must be completed before God can resume His program with Israel and bring it to completion.
like......WHO BELIEVES THIS STUFF???????
Kingdom (Temple Sacrifices Levitical Priesthood David's Throne) POSTPONED....UNTIL FURTHER NOTICE.
meanwhile God had to have SOMETHING TO DO....oh...how about A MYSTERY CHURCH I never thought of before now?
SOUNDS GOOD SON - LET'S DO IT.
i'll gather you a MYSTERY GENTILE CHURCH GAP AGE BRIDE....then when that's over, I'LL GET MY EARTHLY ISRAELITE WIFE BACK.
and we'll all go our SEPARATE WAYS THROUGHOUT ETERNITY.
Last edited:
cont....
In classical dispensationalism God has two groups of people, all physical Israel, who remain the chosen people, and the ekklesia, the meeting, the assembly, which William Tyndale consistently translated as congregation, and not as church.
The classical dispensationalists - John Darby, C.I. Scofield, and Lewis S. Chafer - insist that "Israel" in scripture always means physical Israel, the literal descendants of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. Israel, for the dispensationalists cannot mean anything other than all physical Israel. And the dispensationalists do not separate the remnant of physical Israel, which Hebrews 11 identifies as being a small number who had faith, from the various forms of false doctrines and false practices of physical Israel, including Talmudic Judaism, and the religion of the Pharisees of Christ's time.
- An Example of the Use of the Dialectic Argument Against Scripture, Bernard Pyron
......
The sages of the Talmud see a direct link between themselves and the Pharisees, and historians generally consider Pharisaic Judaism to be the progenitor of Rabbinic Judaism, that is normative, mainstream Judaism after the destruction of the Second Temple. All mainstream forms of Judaism today consider themselves heirs of Rabbinic Judaism and, ultimately, the Pharisees.
Pharisees - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
......
Within the context of exhorting Catholics ever deeper into the ecumenical program, Pope Francis says:
“We hold the Jewish people in special regard because their covenant with God has never been revoked, for ‘the gifts and the call of God are irrevocable’ (Rom 11:29). The Church, which shares with Jews an important part of the Sacred Scriptures, looks upon the people of the covenant and their faith as one of the sacred roots of her own Christian identity (cf. Rom 11:16-18).
As Christians, we cannot consider Judaism as a foreign religion; nor do we include the Jews among those called to turn from idols and to serve the true God (cf. 1 Thes 1:9). With them, we believe in the one God[1] who acts in history, and with them we accept his revealed word.”[2]
Pope Francis and the Old Covenant | None | Catholic Family News
.......
English Babylonian Talmud
Halakhah.com Babylonian Talmud Online in English
......
The Talmud (Babylonian edition) records other sins of "Jesus the Nazarene":
He and his disciples practiced sorcery and black magic, led Jews astray into idolatry, and were sponsored by foreign, gentile powers for the purpose of subverting Jewish worship (Sanhedrin 43a).
He was sexually immoral, worshipped statues of stone (a brick is mentioned), was cut off from the Jewish people for his wickedness, and refused to repent (Sanhedrin 107b; Sotah 47a).
He learned witchcraft in Egypt and, to perform miracles, used procedures that involved cutting his flesh—which is also explicitly banned in the Bible (Shabbos 104b).
The Seven Noahide Laws
Who Was Jesus?
......
Dual-covenant theology is a Christian view of the Old Covenant which holds that Jews may simply keep the "Law of Moses", because of the "everlasting covenant" (Genesis 17:13) between Abraham and God expressed in the Hebrew Bible, whereas Gentiles (those not Jews or Jewish proselytes) must convert to Christianity or alternatively accept the Seven Laws of Noah to be assured of a place in the World to Come.
Dual-covenant theology - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
NO THANKS.
In classical dispensationalism God has two groups of people, all physical Israel, who remain the chosen people, and the ekklesia, the meeting, the assembly, which William Tyndale consistently translated as congregation, and not as church.
The classical dispensationalists - John Darby, C.I. Scofield, and Lewis S. Chafer - insist that "Israel" in scripture always means physical Israel, the literal descendants of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. Israel, for the dispensationalists cannot mean anything other than all physical Israel. And the dispensationalists do not separate the remnant of physical Israel, which Hebrews 11 identifies as being a small number who had faith, from the various forms of false doctrines and false practices of physical Israel, including Talmudic Judaism, and the religion of the Pharisees of Christ's time.
- An Example of the Use of the Dialectic Argument Against Scripture, Bernard Pyron
......
The sages of the Talmud see a direct link between themselves and the Pharisees, and historians generally consider Pharisaic Judaism to be the progenitor of Rabbinic Judaism, that is normative, mainstream Judaism after the destruction of the Second Temple. All mainstream forms of Judaism today consider themselves heirs of Rabbinic Judaism and, ultimately, the Pharisees.
Pharisees - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
......
Within the context of exhorting Catholics ever deeper into the ecumenical program, Pope Francis says:
“We hold the Jewish people in special regard because their covenant with God has never been revoked, for ‘the gifts and the call of God are irrevocable’ (Rom 11:29). The Church, which shares with Jews an important part of the Sacred Scriptures, looks upon the people of the covenant and their faith as one of the sacred roots of her own Christian identity (cf. Rom 11:16-18).
As Christians, we cannot consider Judaism as a foreign religion; nor do we include the Jews among those called to turn from idols and to serve the true God (cf. 1 Thes 1:9). With them, we believe in the one God[1] who acts in history, and with them we accept his revealed word.”[2]
Pope Francis and the Old Covenant | None | Catholic Family News
.......
English Babylonian Talmud
Halakhah.com Babylonian Talmud Online in English
......
The Talmud (Babylonian edition) records other sins of "Jesus the Nazarene":
He and his disciples practiced sorcery and black magic, led Jews astray into idolatry, and were sponsored by foreign, gentile powers for the purpose of subverting Jewish worship (Sanhedrin 43a).
He was sexually immoral, worshipped statues of stone (a brick is mentioned), was cut off from the Jewish people for his wickedness, and refused to repent (Sanhedrin 107b; Sotah 47a).
He learned witchcraft in Egypt and, to perform miracles, used procedures that involved cutting his flesh—which is also explicitly banned in the Bible (Shabbos 104b).
The Seven Noahide Laws
Who Was Jesus?
......
Dual-covenant theology is a Christian view of the Old Covenant which holds that Jews may simply keep the "Law of Moses", because of the "everlasting covenant" (Genesis 17:13) between Abraham and God expressed in the Hebrew Bible, whereas Gentiles (those not Jews or Jewish proselytes) must convert to Christianity or alternatively accept the Seven Laws of Noah to be assured of a place in the World to Come.
Dual-covenant theology - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
NO THANKS.
H
We all owe Zones a debt of thanks for reminding us our the terrible errors of the Dispensationists; the worst of these errors ,for me, is their false "faith only" salvation. This error has created the present apostacy of the Fundamental churches. But the A-mill camp must rethink their position of God's nation ,the Jewish nation, Israel, iin His Story, history. And the present day reality of the geo-political relationships of countries as God is lining them up for the return of Christ. And the Dist. camp,Pre-trib. rapturists, are going to be very embaressed as the temple gets built and they are here on earth. LOL BUT, this is only my humble opinion.LOL love to all Hoffco
Revelation 20
7When the thousand years are completed, Satan will be released from his prison, 8and will come out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together for the war; the number of them is like the sand of the seashore. 9And they came up on the broad plain of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city, and fire came down from heaven and devoured them
1) what IF this happens within THIS "dispensation" (the so-called church age)?
2) who are the saints?
3) what is the beloved city?
if you don't have a pretrib rapture removing christians....you have a problem addressing who the saints are.
7When the thousand years are completed, Satan will be released from his prison, 8and will come out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together for the war; the number of them is like the sand of the seashore. 9And they came up on the broad plain of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city, and fire came down from heaven and devoured them
1) what IF this happens within THIS "dispensation" (the so-called church age)?
2) who are the saints?
3) what is the beloved city?
if you don't have a pretrib rapture removing christians....you have a problem addressing who the saints are.
What has been set forth is of extreme importance in understanding OT scripture and how anointed , God ordained men like Paul explains it. The stories, ordinances , statues and covenants and people and things associated there with all have a deeper and spiritual meaning that will be grasped by the spiritually taught. The feast of the passover had a deeper spiritual meaning 1 Cor 5:7
7Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us:
The us, the Spiritual Israel..
Other things like the altar, the priesthood, the sacrifices, laver and incense and other items under the OT all have a deeper spiritual meaning that is to be conveyed to God's Covenant People living under the NT..
Lets look at some examples : The altar Ex 27:1
1And thou shalt make an altar of shittim wood, five cubits long, and five cubits broad; the altar shall be foursquare: and the height thereof shall be three cubits.
This was a type and prefigured the spiritual altar of the New Covenant Heb 13:10
10We have an altar[Christ], whereof they have no right to eat which serve the tabernacle.
The Laver of washing Ex 30:18-21
18Thou shalt also make a laver of brass, and his foot also of brass, to wash withal: and thou shalt put it between the tabernacle of the congregation and the altar, and thou shalt put water therein.
19For Aaron and his sons shall wash their hands and their feet thereat:
20When they go into the tabernacle of the congregation, they shall wash with water, that they die not; or when they come near to the altar to minister, to burn offering made by fire unto the LORD:
21So they shall wash their hands and their feet, that they die not: and it shall be a statute for ever to them, even to him and to his seed throughout their generations.
The laver typifies the once and for all washing of regeneration as well as the continual washing or cleansing in our daily lives from the defilement of sin..
I of course could go on, but the point is to show that OT history typifies and finds it's fulfillment in the NT, that goes for the People as well 86
7Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us:
The us, the Spiritual Israel..
Other things like the altar, the priesthood, the sacrifices, laver and incense and other items under the OT all have a deeper spiritual meaning that is to be conveyed to God's Covenant People living under the NT..
Lets look at some examples : The altar Ex 27:1
1And thou shalt make an altar of shittim wood, five cubits long, and five cubits broad; the altar shall be foursquare: and the height thereof shall be three cubits.
This was a type and prefigured the spiritual altar of the New Covenant Heb 13:10
10We have an altar[Christ], whereof they have no right to eat which serve the tabernacle.
The Laver of washing Ex 30:18-21
18Thou shalt also make a laver of brass, and his foot also of brass, to wash withal: and thou shalt put it between the tabernacle of the congregation and the altar, and thou shalt put water therein.
19For Aaron and his sons shall wash their hands and their feet thereat:
20When they go into the tabernacle of the congregation, they shall wash with water, that they die not; or when they come near to the altar to minister, to burn offering made by fire unto the LORD:
21So they shall wash their hands and their feet, that they die not: and it shall be a statute for ever to them, even to him and to his seed throughout their generations.
The laver typifies the once and for all washing of regeneration as well as the continual washing or cleansing in our daily lives from the defilement of sin..
I of course could go on, but the point is to show that OT history typifies and finds it's fulfillment in the NT, that goes for the People as well 86
H
Sorry sister Zone your "roots" are showing, your emotions "feelings" are not fully trained by God's word, in that you have rejected the parts of the Bible which don't fit in to your "program". As, most, theologians ,you are rejecting the "dual" nature of the "truth" of the Bible. God is the "absolute" therefore His word is absolute for as long as He wants them to be binding upon man. The truth about God is absolute. But the "realative" truth He gives us to go by, is only binding for "Time". When the New Heavens and earth come, God will have a new set of "absolutes" for us to live by. Dialectic thinking is what the Bible is all about. The bad "feelings" "fightings" Christians have are based on their failure to see and accept the dualality of Bible truth. The Bible is full of "paradoxes" and "anti-thesis". Most go, Love to all.
Hoffco, with all the love of Christ, that's a bunch of crap! Old Covenant Israel up and unto Jesus Christ was the anointed Covenant that man could approach Almighty God. But all through the Old Testament this Covenant was shown over and over as a type of Messiah, or Christ, (there is no more type and shadow of Old Covenant Israel after Messiah in the Old Testament). The Adamic Covenant, The Noahic Covenant, The Samsonic Covenant, and on and on.....! Then God begins to fulfill His Scripture and, Jesus is born of a virgin, the son of God, and the son of man; lives 33 years, 3 and 1/2 in ministry, dies and fulfills the Feast Year of the Lord in 30ad; and the Mosaic Covenant of Old Covenant Israel begins to be abolished between 30ad to 70ad. In the same 40 year period of 30ad to 70ad, a New Covenant to GOD is ESTABLISHED in CHRIST JESUS! Old Covenant Israel was the Church or Light in the Wilderness, New Covenant Israel or the Church founded at Pentecost in Christ Jesus; is now the Church or Light that is set upon a hill to draw all unto that Light! There is no more, any such thing as Jew or Gentile, they do not exist, according to God's Word, in the New Testament! This is how one can know the lie from the truth: Anyone who says there is now, in the 21st century, a distinction being made in the New Testament Church, between Jews and/or Gentiles, they are liars! The Apostle Paul was a Jew; the Apostle Peter was a Jew; the Apostle John was a Jew; they established New Covenant Israel; it is the house that is set upon the foundation of the faithful of Old Covenant Israel! It is the 2nd phase of Covenant Israel that is set upon Mt Zion in the Type and shadow of David's Tabernacle; where there were no outer or inner court, but all could come freely and worship God. The Light or Church that was set upon a hill! There is no more covenant, or Word, by where man can be saved! God is not going to resurrect the Whore of the unfaithful of Old Covenant Israel, His adulteress wife, who He had stoned to death and was cut off, and cast out of the Kingdom of God! They have been offered however, the same olive branch, unto God, as the rest of us, and that is Jesus Christ and Him Crucified; their long lost Messiah! We can never know God in any form out side of God's Covenants; New Covenant Israel is the Israel of God. There are no more righteous lineage of Old Covenant Israel except Jesus Christ! Can you not understand this?! There may be a New Jewish State of Israel in the 21st Century, but, they are of the lineage of those who were cast out, and cut off from the Kingdom of God. And yes they may still be grafted back into Israel through the preaching of the Gospel: But there is no more righteous lineage that connects them back to 30 or 70ad; therefore they are no longer of the chosen people of God; and this tells us there will be no special 7 year period set aside for them; to reestablish something that Jesus Himself, fulfilled in Himself! I could go on and on, and I have jumped over a lot of things; but if you cannot see that the righteous line from Adam stopped with Jesus, in that He fulfilled the Law and the Prophets by 70ad, and His fulfilling of the Feast Year of the Lord in 30ad. There is no lineage that connects any future resurrection of Old Covenant Israel; There is no more sacrifice to be made, there is no more Jew or Gentile in God's Kingdom, all of the was established before 70ad. many blessings
who are you talking to? i'll reply anyhow.
put some paragraph breaks in your writing if possible.
okay
ya....
okay
i agree.
also, anyone claiming there is any distinction OUTSIDE the church are liars....lost is lost. Gospel to jew and greek...FULL STOP.
agree
right.
that's what the Bible says very simply, in black and white (and red)
but they don't read that - they read paperback novels.
agree.
the 7 year period is a tortured excision of Daniel's (FULFILLED) 70TH WEEK - the very one Messiah came and lived and died and rose in - where He is erased from History, His work denied and that week is dragged forward thousands of years to be fulfilled by SATAN.
oh ya....that's Biblical (not).
they believe in LITERAL fulfillment of prophecies....except that one - where they need the PROPHETIC CLOCK to stop - so there is "TIME for" God to save gentiles.
k...that's baby talk junk...but anyway.
well ProphetExcalibur....what are you - JESUIT?
LOL.
good post
put some paragraph breaks in your writing if possible.
okay
ya....
okay
i agree.
also, anyone claiming there is any distinction OUTSIDE the church are liars....lost is lost. Gospel to jew and greek...FULL STOP.
agree
right.
that's what the Bible says very simply, in black and white (and red)
but they don't read that - they read paperback novels.
agree.
the 7 year period is a tortured excision of Daniel's (FULFILLED) 70TH WEEK - the very one Messiah came and lived and died and rose in - where He is erased from History, His work denied and that week is dragged forward thousands of years to be fulfilled by SATAN.
oh ya....that's Biblical (not).
they believe in LITERAL fulfillment of prophecies....except that one - where they need the PROPHETIC CLOCK to stop - so there is "TIME for" God to save gentiles.
k...that's baby talk junk...but anyway.
well ProphetExcalibur....what are you - JESUIT?
LOL.
good post