The Israel of God

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Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
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is it?
a thousand is exactly 1,000, and it's in our future.

but 10 doesn't mean 10 - it's a world system.
you don't go for the 10 nations, but don't say what the ten is.

you got 10 popes lined up? when did that start?



it is you who is emulating the Great Harlot...how many times does Daniel cover the same kingdoms, Hizikyah?
how many times does Revelation do the same?

are all of Daniel's 70 weeks complete?
I already said atleadt 2 times what the ten are, Revelation 17:12, "And the ten horns which you saw are ten kings, which as yet have not received a kingdom; but receive authority as kings one hour with the beast."

modern politics are setting up 10 "nation states" aka unions, the world is being divided into 10 pieces.

and no not all 70 weeks are fulfilled, if they were Messiah would have already returned.

I know you teach all fulfilled , this doctrine was invented so the pope can "rule the kingdom as vicar of christ"
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
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we got one what to go, Hizikyah?

wait...what's this?

Revelation 17:3
"So he carried me away in the Spirit into the midst of godworshipers and I saw a woman sitting on a scarlet colored beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns."

the whore "rides" the beast, aka controls, but yes the beast (system) will turn on rome and destroy it.

:)

so, the popes are NOT the beast? who thought to change epochs and seasons?
or they are? (he is....he who? Constantine?)

was Constantine the beast who thought to change epochs and seasons?
then how is it the Papal beast rises up and destroys the Vatican Harlot?

which Pope thought to change epochs and seasons?
was he the Harlot or the beast?
ohh how well you misrepresent, I imagine to shipwreck those that are not learned.

The Sabbath Was Changed to Sunday!
But by who?

“Sunday is our mark or authority...the church is above the Bible, and this transference of Sabbath observance is proof of that fact.” Catholic Record of London, Ontario, September 1, 1923.

Exodus 31:13, "Speak also to the children of Israyl, saying; Surely My Sabbaths you shall keep, for they are a *sign between Me and you throughout your generations, that you may know that I am Yahweh
Who sanctifies you, and makes you holy."

*sign=Word #226, Hebrew Dictionary,Strong's Exhaustive Concordance,
meaning mark, token, sign, consent, flag, evidence of consent.

“Of course the Catholic Church claims that the change (Saturday Sabbath to Sunday) was her act...And the act is a mark of her ecclesiastical authority in religious things.” H.F. Thomas, Chancellor of Cardinal Gibbons

Ezekiyl 20:12, "Moreover, I also gave them My Sabbaths, to be a sign between Me and them, that they might know that I am Yahweh Who sanctifies them."

“Protestants...accept Sunday rather than Saturday as the day for public worship after the Catholic Church made the change...But the Protestant mind does not seem to realize that...In observing the Sunday, they are accepting the authority of the spokesman for the church, the Pope.” Our Sunday Visitor, February 15, 1950.

“Sunday is founded, not of scripture, but on tradition, and is distinctly a Catholic institution. As there is no scripture for the transfer of the day of rest from the last to the first day of the week, Protestants ought to keep their Sabbath on Saturday and thus leave Catholics in full possession of Sunday.” Catholic Record, September 17, 1893.

“It is always somewhat laughable, to see the Protestant churches, in pulpit and legislation, demand the observance of Sunday, of which there is nothing in their Bible.” Peter R. Kraemer, Catholic Church Extension Magazine, USA (1975), Chicago, Illinois, “Under the blessing of the Pope Pius XI”

Daniyl 7:25, "And he will speak great words against Yahweh, and will wear out; mentally attack to cause to fall away, the saints of Yahweh, and think to change times and Laws..."
"Times" is word # 2166 - Hebrew Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar - 1) a set time, time, season

Daniyl 8:12, "And a host was given him against the daily by reason of transgression, and it cast down the truth to the ground; and it practiced, and succeeded."

“I am going to propose a very plain and serious question to those who follow ‘the Bible and the Bible only’ to give their most earnest attention. It is this: Why don’t you keep holy the Sabbath day?... “The command of the Almighty God stands clearly written in the Bible in these words: ‘Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labor, and do all thy work; but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord thy God; in it thou shalt not do any work.’ Exodus 20:8-10...
“You will answer me, perhaps, that you do keep the Sabbath; for that you abstain from all worldly business and diligently go to church, and say your prayers, and read your Bible at home every Sunday of your lives...
“But Sunday is not the Sabbath day. Sunday is the first day of the week: the Sabbath day is the seventh day of the week. Almighty God did not give a commandment that men should keep holy one day in seven; but He named His own day, and said distinctly: ‘Thou shalt keep holy the seventh day’; and He assigned a reason for choosing this day rather than any other - a reason which belongs only to the seventh day of the week, and cannot be applied to the rest. He says, ‘For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea and all that in them is, and rested on the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it’, Exodus 20:11, Genesis 2:1-3. Almighty God ordered that all men should rest from their labor on the seventh day, because He too had rested on that day: He did not rest on Sunday, but on Saturday. On Sunday, which is the first day of the week, He began the work of creation; He did not finish it. It was on Saturday that He ‘ended His work which he had made: and God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it He had rested from all His work which God created and made.’ Genesis 2:2-3...
“Nothing can be more plain and easy to understand than all this; there is nobody who attempts to deny it. It is acknowledged by everybody that the day which Almighty God appointed to be kept holy was Saturday, not Sunday. Why do you then keep holy the Sunday and not Saturday?
“You will tell me that Saturday was the Jewish Sabbath, but that the Christian Sabbath has been changed to Sunday. Changed! But by whom? Who has the authority to change an express commandment of Almighty God? When God has spoken and said, ‘Thou shalt keep holy the seventh day’, who shall dare to say, ‘Nay, thou mayest work and do all manner of worldly business on the seventh day: but thou shalt keep holy the first day in its stead?’ This is a most important question, which I know not how you answer...
“You are a Protestant, and you profess to go by the Bible and the Bible only; and yet, in so important a manner as the observance of one day in seven as the holy day, you go against the plain letter of the Bible, and put another day in the place of that day which the Bible has commanded. The command to keep holy the seventh day is one of the Ten Commandments; you believe that the other nine are still binding. Who gave you authority to tamper with the fourth? If you are consistent with your own principles, if you really follow the Bible, and the Bible only you ought to be able to produce some portion of the New Testament in which this fourth commandment is expressly altered.” Excerpts from “Why Don’t You Keep Holy the Sabbath Day?”, pages 3-15 in The Clifton Tract, vol. 4, published by the Roman Catholic Church 1869.

“Written by the finger of God on two tables of stone, this Divine code (ten commandments) was received from the Almighty by Moses amid the thunders of Mount Sinai...Christ resumed these Commandments in the double precept of charity--love of God and of the neighbour; He proclaimed them as binding under the New Law in Matthew 19 and in the Sermon on the Mount (Matthew 5)...The (Catholic) Church, on the other hand, after changing the day of rest from the Jewish Sabbath, or seventh day of the week, to the first, made the Third Commandment refer to Sunday as the day to be kept holy as the Lord’s Day...He (God) claims one day out of the seven as a memorial to Himself, and this must be kept holy...”The Catholic Encyclopaedia, vol. 4, “The Ten Commandments”, 1908 edition by Robert Appleton Company; and 1999 Online edition by Kevin Knight, Imprimatur, John M. Farley, Archbishop of New York.
“Question: How prove you that the church had power to command feasts and holydays?
“Answer: By the very act of changing the Sabbath into Sunday, which Protestants allow of and therefore they fondly contradict themselves by keeping Sunday strictly, and breaking most other feasts commanded by the same church.
“Question: Have you any other way of proving that the church has power to institute festivals of precept?
“Answer: Had she not such power, she could not a done that in which all modern religionists agree with her; -she could not have substituted the observance of Sunday the first day of the week, for the observance of Saturday the seventh day of the week, a change for which there is no Scriptural authority.” Stephen Keenan, A Doctrinal Catechism On the Obedience Due to the Church, 3rd edition, Chapter 2, p. 174 (Imprimatur, John Cardinal McCloskey, Archbishop of New York).


“Perhaps the boldest thing, the most revolutionary change the Church ever did, happened in the first century. The holy day, the Sabbath, was changed from Saturday to Sunday. ‘The day of the Lord’ was chosen, not from any direction noted in the Scriptures, but from the (Catholic) Church’s sense of its own power...People who think that the Scriptures should be the sole authority, should logically become 7th Day Adventists, and keep Saturday holy.” St. Catherine Church Sentinel, Algonac, Michigan, May 21, 1995.


“Nowhere in the Bible is it stated that worship should be changed from Saturday to Sunday...Now the Church...instituted, by God’s authority, Sunday as the day of worship. This same Church, by the same divine authority, taught the doctrine of Purgatory long before the Bible was made. We have, therefore, the same authority for Purgatory as we have for Sunday.” Martin J. Scott, Things Catholics Are Asked About, 1927 edition, p. 136.



“Question - Which is the Sabbath day?
“Answer - Saturday is the Sabbath day.
“Question - Why do we observe Sunday instead of Saturday?
“Answer - We observe Sunday instead of Saturday because the Catholic Church, in the Council of Laodicea (A.D. 364), transferred the solemnity from Saturday to Sunday.” Peter Geiermann, C.S.S.R., The Convert’s Catechism of Catholic Doctrine, p. 50, 3rd edition, 1957.




“Is Saturday the seventh day according to the Bible and the Ten Commandments? I answer yes. Is Sunday the first day of the week and did the Church change the seventh day - Saturday - for Sunday, the first day? I answer yes. Did Christ change the day’? I answer no!”
“Faithfully yours, J. Card. Gibbons.” James Cardinal Gibbons, Archbishop of Baltimore, Md. (1877-1921), in a signed letter.





Daniel 7:25 Amplified Bible (AMP)
25 And he shall speak words against the Most High [God] and shall wear out the saints of the Most High and think to change the time [of sacred feasts and holy days] and the law; and the saints shall be given into his hand for a time, two times, and half a time [three and one-half years].
“Question. - How prove you that the Church hath power to command feasts and holy days?“Answer. - By the very act of changing Sabbath into Sunday which Protestants allow of; and therefore they fondly contradict themselves, by keeping Sunday strictly, and breaking most other feasts commanded by the same Church.
“Question. - How prove you that?
“Answer. - Because by keeping Sunday, they acknowledge the Church’s power to ordain feasts, and to command them under sin: and by not keeping the rest by her commanded, they again deny, in fact, the same power.” An Abridgment of the Christian Doctrine, composed by Henry Tuberville, p. 58.


“Some theologians have held that God likewise directly determined the Sunday as the day of worship in the New Law, that He Himself has explicitly substituted the Sunday for the Sabbath. But this theory is now entirely abandoned. It is now commonly held that God simply gave His Church the power to set aside whatever day or days she would deem suitable as Holy Days. The (Roman Catholic) Church chose Sunday, the first day of the week, and in the course of time added other days as holy days.” John Laux, A Course in Religion for Catholic High Schools and Academies, 1936 edition, vol. 1, p. 51.

“Question. What warrant have you for keeping Sunday preferably to the ancient sabbath which was Saturday?
“Answer. We have for it the authority of the Catholic church and apostolic tradition.
“Question. Does the Scripture anywhere command the Sunday to be kept for the Sabbath?
“Answer. The Scripture commands us to hear the church (St.Matt.18:17; St. Luke 10:16), and to hold fast the traditions of the apostles. 2 Thess 2:15. But the Scripture does not in particular mention this change of the Sabbath. (Yes it actually does, Daniyl 7:25, "And he will speak great words
against Yahweh, and will wear out; mentally attack to cause to fall away,
the saints of Yahweh, and think to change times and Laws.")



“Protestantism, in discarding the authority of the (Roman Catholic) Church, has no good reasons for its Sunday theory, and ought logically to keep Saturday as the Sabbath.” John Gilmary Shea, American Catholic Quarterly Review, January 1883.


“The Catholic church for over one thousand years before the existence of a Protestant, by virtue of her divine mission, changed the day from Saturday to Sunday...The Protestant World at its birth found the Christian Sabbath too strongly entrenched to run counter to its existence; it was therefore placed under the necessity of acquiescing in the arrangement, thus implying the (Catholic) Church’s right to change the day, for over three hundred years. The Christian Sabbath is therefore to this day, the acknowledged offspring of the Catholic Church as spouse of the Holy Ghost, without a word of remonstrance from the Protestant World.” James Cardinal Gibbons in the Catholic Mirror, September 23, 1983.

“They [the Protestants] deem it their duty to keep the Sunday holy. Why? Because the Catholic Church tells them to do so. They have no other reason...The observance of Sunday thus comes to be an ecclesiastical law entirely distinct from the divine law of Sabbath observance...The author of the Sunday law...is the Catholic Church.” Ecclesiastical Review, February 1914.

“The Sunday...is purely a creation of the Catholic Church.”American Catholic Quarterly Review, January 1883.


“Sunday...is the law of the Catholic Church alone...” American Sentinel (Catholic), June 1893.


“Sunday is a Catholic institution and its claim to observance can be defended only on Catholic principles...From beginning to end of Scripture there is not a single passage that warrants the transfer of weekly public worship from the last day of the week to the first.” Catholic Press, Sydney, Australia, August 1900.

“It is well to remind the Presbyterians, Baptists, Methodists, and all other Christians, that the Bible does not support them anywhere in their observance of Sunday. Sunday is an institution of the Roman Catholic Church, and those who observe the day observe a commandment of the Catholic Church.” Priest Brady, in an address reported in The News, Elizabeth, New Jersey, March 18, 1903.

“From this we may understand how great is the authority of the church in interpreting or explaining to us the commandments of God - an authority which is acknowledged by the universal practice of the whole Christian world, even of those sects which profess to take the holy Scriptures as their sole rule of faith, since they observe as the day of rest not the seventh day of the week demanded by the Bible, but the first day. Which we know is to be kept holy, only from the tradition and teaching of the Catholic church.” Henry Gibson, Catechism Made Easy, #2, 9th edition, vol. 1, p. 341-342.

“.’ AnI have repeatedly offered $1,000 to anyone who can prove to me from the Bible alone that I am bound to keep Sunday holy. There is no such law in the Bible. It is a law of the holy Catholic Church alone. The Bible says, ‘Remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy.’ The Catholic Church says: ‘No. By my divine power I abolish the Sabbath day and command you to keep holy the first day of the week and lo! The entire civilized world bows down in a reverent obedience to the command of the holy Catholic Church.” father T. Enright, C.S.S.R. of the Redemptoral College, Kansas City, in a lecture at Hartford,



Kansas, February 18, 1884, printed in History of the Sabbath, p. 802.

“The (Roman Catholic) Church changed the observance of the Sabbath to Sunday by right of the divine, infallible authority given to her by her founder, Jesus Christ. The Protestant claiming the Bible to be the only guide of faith, has no warrant for observing Sunday.” The Catholic Universe Bulletin, August 14, 1942, p. 4.


“Regarding the change from the observance of the Jewish Sabbath to the Christian Sunday, I wish to draw your attention to the facts:
“1) That Protestants, who accept the Bible as the only rule of faith and religion, should by all means go back to the observance of the Sabbath. The fact that they do not, but on the contrary observe the Sunday, stultifies them in the eyes of every thinking man.
“2) We Catholics do not accept the Bible as the only rule of faith. Besides the Bible we have the living Church, the authority of the Church, as a rule to guide us. We say, this Church, instituted by Christ to teach and guide man through life, has the right to change the ceremonial laws of the Old Testament and hence, we accept her change of the Sabbath to Sunday. We frankly say, yes, the Church made this change, made this law, as she made many other laws, for instance, the Friday abstinence, the unmarried priesthood, the laws concerning mixed marriages, the regulation of Catholic marriages and a thousand other laws...


“The arguments...are firmly grounded on the word of God, and having been closely studied with the Bible in hand, leave no escape for the conscientious Protestant except the abandonment of Sunday worship and the return to Saturday, commanded by their teacher, the Bible, or, unwilling to abandon the tradition of the Catholic Church, which enjoins the keeping of Sunday, and which they have accepted in direct opposition to their teacher, the Bible, consistently accept her (the Catholic Church) in all her teachings. Reason and common sense demand the acceptance of one or the other of these alternatives: either Protestantism and the keeping holy of Saturday, or Catholicism and the keeping holy of Sunday. Compromise is impossible.” James Cardinal Gibbons, in Catholic Mirror, December 23, 1893.


And if you don't believe the Catholic Churchis is the beast spoken of in Daniyl and Revelation:


Daniyl 7:25, "And he will speak great words against Yahweh, and will wear out; mentally attack to cause to fall away, the saints of Yahweh, and think to change times and Laws."


Clearly changed the Sabbath and more

Daniyl 8:12, "And a host was given him against the daily by reason of transgression, and it cast down the truth to the ground; and it practiced, and succeeded."


Daniyl 7:19-21, "Then I would know the truth of the fourth beast, which was different from all the others, exceedingly dreadful, whose teeth were of iron, and his claws of bronze; which devoured, broke in pieces, and trampled the residue with his feet; And of the ten horns that were on his
head, and of the other horn which came up, before gwhom three fell--the horn that had eyes, and a mouth that spoke very great things, whose look was more stout; more mighty and imposing, than his fellows. I beheld, and the same horn made war with the saints, and prevailed against them."

Foxe's Book of Martyrs historically records the Romans killing 11 of the 12 apostles, including Kepha (Peter), and beheading Shaul (Paul). It is estimated to have killed 50million to 1 billion all toghther, now you know where they got all those skulls for the catacombs.


Revelation 13:5-6, "And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things, and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to wmake war for forty-two moons; months. And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against Yahweh, to blaspheme His Name, and His House, and those who dwell in heaven."


Pope says not to use the Name of Yaweh: Vatican Says No 'Yahweh' In Songs, Prayers At Catholic Masses - Music & Dance - Entertainment - Catholic Online
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
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Zonestantine, we debate alot but you are acting extra delusional today? Are you feeling ok?
i feel fine.

could you possible go through Daniel chapter by chapter and give me an outline of the story.
match it to the other prophets too - who were either in Babylon, or prophesied about it.

that was literal Babylon...but that empireat the time looked like this:



head of gold: Babylon



chest and arms of silver: Media-Persian



belly and thighs of brass: Greek



legs and feet of iron and clay: Rome...and Apsotate Israel - together (Psalm 2; Acts 4).





then what...some other King was set up. in the days of those kings up there - in ROME, NAMELY IN JUDEA.....the God of heaven set His King on Zion.





if you have a gap or a revival of that fourth kingdom, prove it.
thanks very much, Hizikyah.
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
11,634
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same questions over and over, i already answered these, yes there is a continuaton iron legs to iron and clay feet, and this kingdom reigns until the return of messiah, so find out who the iron legs are (ROME) and you will know who the iron and clay are.

3 And I saw one of his heads, as it
were, wounded to death. And his deadly
wound was healed; and all the world
wondered; followed, after the beast.

33 His legs were of iron, and his feet
were part iron and part clay.
34 You watched while a stone, which
was cut out without hands, struck the
image on its feet of iron and clay, and
broke them into pieces.
35 Then the iron, the clay, the bronze,
the silver, and the gold were broken to
pieces at the same time, and became like
the chaff on the summer threshing floors;
and the wind carried them away, so that
no trace of them could be found; and the
stone that struck the image became a
great mountain, and filled the whole
earth
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
11,634
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i ahve answered you over and over let me ask you a 2 questions....

do you teach that we are no longer to follow the Law written in the "OT"?
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
ohh how well you misrepresent, I imagine to shipwreck those that are not learned.

The Sabbath Was Changed to Sunday!
But by who?

Daniyl 7:25, "And he will speak great words against Yahweh, and will wear out; mentally attack to cause to fall away, the saints of Yahweh, and think to change times and Laws."


Clearly changed the Sabbath and more

Daniyl 8:12, "And a host was given him against the daily by reason of transgression, and it cast down the truth to the ground; and it practiced, and succeeded."


Daniyl 7:19-21, "Then I would know the truth of the fourth beast, which was different from all the others, exceedingly dreadful, whose teeth were of iron, and his claws of bronze; which devoured, broke in pieces, and trampled the residue with his feet; And of the ten horns that were on his
head, and of the other horn which came up, before gwhom three fell--the horn that had eyes, and a mouth that spoke very great things, whose look was more stout; more mighty and imposing, than his fellows. I beheld, and the same horn made war with the saints, and prevailed against them."

Foxe's Book of Martyrs historically records the Romans killing 11 of the 12 apostles, including Kepha (Peter), and beheading Shaul (Paul). It is estimated to have killed 50million to 1 billion all toghther, now you know where they got all those skulls for the catacombs.


Revelation 13:5-6, "And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things, and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to wmake war for forty-two moons; months. And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against Yahweh, to blaspheme His Name, and His House, and those who dwell in heaven."


Pope says not to use the Name of Yaweh: Vatican Says No 'Yahweh' In Songs, Prayers At Catholic Masses - Music & Dance - Entertainment - Catholic Online
so, the Pope only had 42 months.
or is that future. if so what`s all that stuff from the past.

i told you - if you want to talk about the RC thing, lets do it.
but stop doing what you are doing - its nonsense...and very poor handling of the text.

EXAMPLE:

Daniel 7:25 Amplified Bible (AMP)
25 And he shall speak words against the Most High [God] and shall wear out the saints of the Most High and think to change the time [of sacred feasts and holy days] and the law; and the saints shall be given into his hand for a time, two times, and half a time [three and one-half years].

so, the horrible awful pope actually only does all this in 3.5 years...right:confused:

you think the SATURDAY SABBATH is everything your salvation hinges on....;)

tell me: who is this:

Daniel 11
"The king will do as he pleases. He will exalt and magnify himself above every god and will say unheard-of things against the God of gods. He will be successful until the time of wrath is completed, for what has been determined must take place.

HEROD

there. i gave you that answer.

now go back in Daniels history and find out who this was (he came BEFORE HEROD)...if you cant, STOP MAKING STUFF UP.

Daniyl 7:25,
"And he will speak great words against Yahweh, and will wear out; mentally attack to cause to fall away, the saints of Yahweh, and think to change times and Laws."
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
11,634
372
0
so, the Pope only had 42 months.
or is that future. if so what`s all that stuff from the past.

i told you - if you want to talk about the RC thing, lets do it.
but stop doing what you are doing - its nonsense...and very poor handling of the text.

EXAMPLE:

Daniel 7:25 Amplified Bible (AMP)
25 And he shall speak words against the Most High [God] and shall wear out the saints of the Most High and think to change the time [of sacred feasts and holy days] and the law; and the saints shall be given into his hand for a time, two times, and half a time [three and one-half years].

so, the horrible awful pope actually only does all this in 3.5 years...right:confused:

you think the SATURDAY SABBATH is everything your salvation hinges on....;)

tell me: who is this:

Daniel 11
"The king will do as he pleases. He will exalt and magnify himself above every god and will say unheard-of things against the God of gods. He will be successful until the time of wrath is completed, for what has been determined must take place.

HEROD

there. i gave you that answer.

now go back in Daniels history and find out who this was (he came BEFORE HEROD)...if you cant, STOP MAKING STUFF UP.

Daniyl 7:25,
"And he will speak great words against Yahweh, and will wear out; mentally attack to cause to fall away, the saints of Yahweh, and think to change times and Laws."
you are teaching the exact doctrine invented by jesuit priest

preparing the world for the anti-Messiah

if all that we already fulfilled the Messiah would have already returned
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
The Israel of God
(Galatians 6:16)

by Michael Marlowe, Dec. 2004.

14 ἐμοὶ δὲ μὴ γένοιτο καυχᾶσθαι εἰ μὴ ἐν τῷ σταυρῷ τοῦ κυρίου ἡμῶν Ἰησοῦ Χριστοῦ, δι᾽ οὗ ἐμοὶ κόσμος ἐσταύρωται κἀγὼ κόσμῳ. 15 οὔτε γὰρ περιτομή τί ἐστιν οὔτε ἀκροβυστία, ἀλλὰ καινὴ κτίσις. 16 καὶ ὅσοι τῷ κανόνι τούτῳ στοιχήσουσιν, εἰρήνη ἐπ᾽ αὐτοὺς καὶ ἔλεος, καὶ ἐπὶ τὸν Ἰσραὴλ τοῦ θεοῦ.

14 But far be it from me to boast, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, through which the world hath been crucified unto me, and I unto the world. 15 For neither is circumcision anything, nor uncircumcision, but a new creation. 16 And as many as shall walk by this rule, peace be upon them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God.




The proper interpretation and translation of the last phrase in Galatians 6:16 has become a matter of controversy in the past century or so. Formerly it was not a matter of controversy. With few exceptions, "The Israel of God" was understood as a name for the Church here. [1] The καὶ ("and") which precedes the phrase ἐπὶ τὸν Ἰσραὴλ τοῦ θεοῦ ("upon the Israel of God") was understood as an explicative καὶ. This understanding of the grammar is reflected in the Revised Standard Version's "Peace and mercy be upon all who walk by this rule, upon the Israel of God," and in the New International Version's "even to the Israel of God." It is not necessary, however, to understand the καὶ as an explicative in order to get substantially the same sense. If it be regarded as an ordinary connective καὶ, as Marvin Vicent says, "The ὅσοι ['as many as'] will refer to the individual Christians, Jewish and Gentile, and Israel of God to the same Christians, regarded collectively, and forming the true messianic community." (Word Studies in the New Testament vol. 4, p. 180). So the rendering "and upon the Israel of God" (KJV and others) is acceptable enough, if it is not misunderstood. In any case, it seems clear that in this verse Paul cannot be pronouncing a benediction upon persons who are not included in the phrase "as many as shall walk by this rule" (the rule of boasting only in the cross). The entire argument of the epistle prevents any idea that here in 6:16 he would give a blessing to those who are not included in this group.

The phrase has become controversial because the traditional interpretation conflicts with principles of interpretation associated with Dispensationalism. Dispensationalists are interested in maintaining a sharp distinction between "Israel" and "the Church" across a whole range of theological matters pertaining to prophecy, ecclesiology, and soteriology. They are not comfortable with the idea that here Paul is using the phrase "Israel of God" in a sense that includes Gentiles, because this undermines their contention that "the Church" is always carefully distinguished from "Israel" in Scripture. This is a major tenet of dispensationalist hermeneutics. C.I. Scofield in his tract, Rightly Dividing the Word of Truth (New York, Loizeaux Brothers, 1888) wrote, "Comparing, then, what is said in Scripture concerning Israel and the Church, [a careful Bible student ] finds that in origin, calling, promise, worship, principles of conduct, and future destiny--all is contrast." Likewise Charles Ryrie in his book Dispensationalism Today (Chicago, 1965) explained that the "basic premise of Dispensationalism is two purposes of God expressed in the formation of two peoples who maintain their distinction throughout eternity." (pp. 44-45).

The Israel of God (Galatians 6:16) < click
Hizikyah - this is the subject of this thread.
move your Revived Roman Empire; Jesus Kingdom wasnt the Fifth and Final Kingdom silliness to a new thread.
then you post all the pics and Catholic stuff you want. i will join you

it still has ZERO to do with Daniel or Rev.
no more derailing this thread with all that stuff.
you dont - like the other who post their GAP stuff - believe Jesus is King of kings and Lord of lords...i get it.

MORE GAP STUFF.
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
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you are teaching the exact doctrine invented by jesuit priest

preparing the world for the anti-Messiah

if all that we already fulfilled the Messiah would have already returned
ah....start your own thread.
i will join you there.
you can tell me about Da Antichrist Pope.

this was Herod:

Daniel 11
"The king will do as he pleases. He will exalt and magnify himself above every god and will say unheard-of things against the God of gods. He will be successful until the time of wrath is completed, for what has been determined must take place.

quit being lazy and using cult sites and LOOK IT UP
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
11,634
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Hizikyah - this is the subject of this thread.
move your Revived Roman Empire; Jesus Kingdom wasnt the Fifth and Final Kingdom silliness to a new thread.
then you post all the pics and Catholic stuff you want. i will join you

it still has ZERO to do with Daniel or Rev.
no more derailing this thread with all that stuff.
you dont - like the other who post their GAP stuff - believe Jesus is King of kings and Lord of lords...i get it.

MORE GAP STUFF.
before you kick me off your thread for answering your questions:

i ahve answered you over and over let me ask you a 2 questions....

do you teach that we are no longer to follow the Law written in the "OT"?
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
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1) before you kick me off your thread for answering your questions:

2) i ahve answered you over and over let me ask you a 2 questions....

3) do you teach that we are no longer to follow the Law written in the "OT"?
1) i am not kicking you off.....just trying to stick more to the OP (though your gap stuff is related, it`s not the Dispenesationalism the OP is concerned with - Israel (Plan A - postponed) Church (Plan B - mystery parenthesis)

2) you have not addressed the question using scripture. you cant - so you use all that other stuff.

3) are you sacrificing animals; living in booths; going to Jerusalem for the feasts.
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
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1) i am not kicking you off.....just trying to stick more to the OP (though your gap stuff is related, it`s not the Dispenesationalism the OP is concerned with - Israel (Plan A - postponed) Church (Plan B - mystery parenthesis)

2) you have not addressed the question using scripture. you cant - so you use all that other stuff.

3) are you sacrificing animals; living in booths; going to Jerusalem for the feasts.
you may disagree with me but i didnt use Scripture, really?

and you didnt answer my question, nevermind.
 
Dec 26, 2012
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Taken out of context? I read it just as it is written within the context - Does it or does it not mention dying? Does it or does it not mention "sinners"? Exactly what I was pointing out to you THE CONTRADICTION. . . .
"He will wipe away every tear from their eyes, and death shall be no more" . . . . if you will read it is not a direct quote. This is quoted: Isaiah 65:17 - "the former shall not be remembered, nor come to mind" and v19 - "and the voice of weeping shall be no more heard in her, nor the voice of crying". Is "mourning" mentioned in Isaiah 65? Which is what you tried to bring in earlier but it's not stated in Isaiah 65 because Isaiah 65 has "death" but here "no death".
There is NO WEEPING AND CRYING How can there be death? People weep and cry when people die. Or are they somehow going to have no emotions at all?

The Hebrew word that is translated as weeping is
בְּ כִ י
bki which in the Hebrew interlinear Bible is translated as lamentation which comes from lament

lament - Merriam Webster




  • [SUP]1[/SUP]la·ment

    verb \lə-ˈment\: to express sorrow, regret, or unhappiness about something


    intransitive verb
    : to mourn aloud :

    transitive verb
    1
    : to express sorrow, mourning, or regret for often demonstratively : mourn

    2
    : to regret strongly




It's pretty straight forward,mourning sure is stated in Isaiah 65. Again John is explaining the meaning of those verses. Scripture defines scripture.
 
B

BradC

Guest
fulfilled.



fulfilled



:)

Hebrews 12
1Therefore, since we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses, let us also lay aside every weight, and sin which clings so closely, and let us run with endurance the race that is set before us, 2looking to Jesus, the founder and perfecter of our faith, who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is seated at the right hand of the throne of God.

A Kingdom That Cannot Be Shaken
18For you have not come to what may be touched, a blazing fire and darkness and gloom and a tempest 19and the sound of a trumpet and a voice whose words made the hearers beg that no further messages be spoken to them. 20For they could not endure the order that was given, “If even a beast touches the mountain, it shall be stoned.” 21Indeed, so terrifying was the sight that Moses said, “I tremble with fear.” 22But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to innumerable angels in festal gathering, 23and to the assemblya of the firstborn who are enrolled in heaven, and to God, the judge of all, and to the spirits of the righteous made perfect, 24and to Jesus, the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood that speaks a better word than the blood of Abel.

25See that you do not refuse him who is speaking. For if they did not escape when they refused him who warned them on earth, much less will we escape if we reject him who warns from heaven. 26At that time his voice shook the earth, but now he has promised, “Yet once more I will shake not only the earth but also the heavens.” 27This phrase, “Yet once more,” indicates the removal of things that are shaken—that is, things that have been made—in order that the things that cannot be shaken may remain. 28Therefore let us be grateful for receiving a kingdom that cannot be shaken, and thus let us offer to God acceptable worship, with reverence and awe, 29for our God is a consuming fire.
if only you were fulfilled, it would be a totally different situation with you on this site.
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
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if only you were fulfilled, it would be a totally different situation with you on this site.
:) Brad, is there anything about Dispensationalism (the version with the pretrib and eternal distinction and whatnot) that you are having any second thoughts about.

is there anything that doesnt make sense to you.

is your claim that the Church and all she is was never promised to Israel really solid ground...do you not see anything at all faulty in it.
 
B

BradC

Guest
I have never had a second thought about it in almost 40 years (saved @19), with affirmation after affirmation, but you keep lumping me into your 'dipsie' mold. When the Holy Spirit makes an impress of truth upon the heart it never leaves nor is it altered because the Spirit does it. There is always greater understanding but the premise never changes because it is part of the foundation of the faith that we have been given. I do not have a problem with any of it and never have. Sorry, I can't accommodate you on that one.
 
Jan 19, 2013
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I have never had a second thought about it in almost 40 years (saved @19), with affirmation after affirmation, but you keep lumping me into your 'dipsie' mold. When the Holy Spirit makes an impress of truth upon the heart it never leaves nor is it altered because the Spirit does it. There is always greater understanding but the premise never changes because it is part of the foundation of the faith that we have been given. I do not have a problem with any of it and never have. Sorry, I can't accommodate you on that one.
There you have it. . .
 

ChosenbyHim

Senior Member
Sep 19, 2011
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There is absolutely no bible verse (not one) that supports a pre-tribulation rapture or a future 1,000 year reign. So why not say farewell to this doctrine, ChosenbyHim?

Yes there are Scriptures for the Pre-trib. Rapture.


Starfield,

God does not have to spell everything out for us. He commanded us to study (2 Timothy 2:15). The more you study the King James Bible, which is God's perfect and holy word, the more you will see how it indeed teaches a Pre-trib. Rapture.


And there are also Scriptures that teach that the Lord Jesus Christ will reign over the kingdoms of this world for 1, 000 years. Read Revelation 20 without trying to allegorize it. Also read Psalm 2, Isaiah 2, 11, and 65, Malachi 4, and Matthew 5-7.
 
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