The Israel of God

[BradC]

peacefulbeliever,
do you see what dispensationalism forces one to do?
you're now down to one single verse...clinging to that, as some sort of proof, that there will be a Millennium.
got anything else?

Dispensational truth does not force anything to be or to happen as you suggest. That is absurd and you are trying to manipulate a precious saint through humiliation. You are the one who is confounded about all this because of your premise. Dispensational truth assists the believer in understanding what God has done, is doing and will do with the world, the church and with Israel in this life and in the next life to come. That is a great thing and benefit for the believer to take hold of because without it the believer gets caught with lumping everything together without the important distinctions that the scriptures make from the time of Adam all the way through to the eternal state of the new heaven and earth and eternity.

You want Israel and the promises made to her out of the picture and the scriptures do not permit you to do that, so you have to kill and murder dispensational truth and discredit those who make those distinctions through the promises of God. You lump it all together because that is how you want it and understand it from your own doctrinal veiwpoint. You do not want to be associated with the kind of believer who identifies themselves with dispensational truth. That kind of leaven you exhibit is rooted in deceit. Anytime someone mentions scripture for which you have no sound explanation for, to coordinate with your understanding, you must discredit them and any dispensational understanding they have. That has nothing to do with coming to the knowledge of the truth. Many issues have been presented to you from many believers and sources on this site and you knock them down like bowling pins and all your cohorts who identify with you and your doctrine and clap their hands and say good job Zone, you have made us proud and we feel better about our position in these things.

Your false premise is this, 'YOU DO NOT LIKE NOR UNDERSTAND HOW GOD'S FAVOR COULD BE UPON SUCH A NATION AND PEOPLE (AS THE APPLE OF HIS EYE) WHO HAVE BEEN SO WICKED AND REBELLIOUS IN THEIR HEART AGAINST SUCH A MERCIFUL AND LOVING GOD AND FAITHFUL HUSBAND, WHO HAS DELIVERED THEM OVER AND OVER. HOW DARE THEY MAKE A CLAIM TO A LAND THEY CONSIDER TO BE THEIR POSSESSION AT THE EXCLUSION OF ALL OTHERS. THEY HAVE NO RIGHTS. THEY REJECTED THE MESSIAH AND CONTINUE TO DO SO AND HOW IT IS EVEN POSSIBLE FOR THEM TO BE RESTORED AS A NATION AND PEOPLE WHEN THEY LIVE IN SUCH UNBELIEF AND DISDAIN FOR OTHERS. THEY ARE NO BETTER THAN THE GENTILES SO WHY IS GOD FAVORING THEM AFTER ALL THESE YEARS HAVING ACCOMPLISHED SO MUCH WICKEDNESS WHICH INCLUDES CRUCIFYING THE SON OF GOD WHO THEY MOCKED, RIDICULED AND REJECTED.

 

[zone]

the beast is a world system that certainly has religious, military and financial branches. In satans kingdom there is no honor or trust, they will devour each other, look at them now always striving for a power grab.

there are differeng voews on the ten horns, I believe one has to look a the council of 300 and club of rome documents, trade treaties ushering in multi country unions, 10 nation states.

Revelation 17:16-18
And the ten horns that you saw, they and the beast will hate the prostitute. They will make her desolate and naked, and devour her flesh and burn her up with fire, for God has put it into their hearts to carry out his purpose by being of one mind and handing over their royal power to the beast, until the words of God are fulfilled. And the woman that you saw is the great city that has dominion over the kings of the earth.

so, in your world, Rome is the great prostitute.
and ten nation states are going to hate the Vatican and burn her with fire.
who is the beast - satan i guess.
because the ten horns are not the beast there.

is the prostitute and the woman the same entity - or are they two entities.

 

[Hizikyah]

the beast is a world system - scripture please.

Revelation 13:7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them. And authority was given him over all tribes, and peoples and languages, and nations.

religious, military and financial branches

- scripture

religious
Revelation 17:2 & 4, With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication; practiced idolatry and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication. "And upon her head was a name written: MYSTERY BABYLON THE GREAT THE MOTHER OF THE HARLOTS AND OF THE ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH."

a woman is a righteous religion and a whore or harlot is a adulterous religion. APOSTATE. This is ABCs.

military
Among MANY other verse:

Revelation 13:& 4 2 And they worshiped the dragon which gave power to the beast; and they worshiped the beast, saying: Who is like the beast? Who is able to make war with him?

financial

Revelation 18:3, "For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth have grown rich through the abundance of her delicacies."

In satans kingdom there is no honor or trust, they will devour each other, look at them now always striving for a power grab

- what does this have to do with Daniel...prove it. from the bible.

you really think daniyl and revelation are not connected, you are either lost or a deceiver. Only one new to the word would honestly think that.

Daniyl 7:7, After this I saw in the night visions, and behold, a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, and exceedingly strong; and it had great iron teeth; it devoured and broke in pieces, then trampled the residue with its feet. It was G6different from all the beasts that were before it; and it had ten horns."

Revelation 17:12, "And the ten horns which you saw are ten kings, which as yet have not received a kingdom; but receive authority as kings one hour with the beast."

there are differeng voews on the ten horns - i do not care about views. scripture interprets scripture. if you do not know, say so.[/QUOTE]

I said that because I dont subscribe to the 10 european nations, IT IS A WORLD SYSTEM, cant be just europe.

Revelation 13:7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them. And authority was given him over all tribes, and peoples and languages, and nations.

Revelation 17:12, "And the ten horns which you saw are ten kings, which as yet have not received a kingdom; but receive authority as kings one hour with the beast."

I believe one has to look a the council of 300 and club of rome documents

- scripture please (Daniel and..or Revelation)

those documents are the plan to have the world divided into 10 unions. see above Scripture.

10 nation states

wheres the TEN from.
find all the Biblical references to the TEN (you think are some Revived Roman Empire).

if those TEN nation states are not exactly the TEN regions ruled by Imperial Rome in 1AD, or they are not TEN rulers from 1AD, get the passages that back up what you are saying.

Revelation 13:7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them. And authority was given him over all tribes, and peoples and languages, and nations.

Revelation 17:12, "And the ten horns which you saw are ten kings, which as yet have not received a kingdom; but receive authority as kings one hour with the beast."

a starting point:

pick ONE passage about the TEN that you think proves your point (revived roman Empire and or Catholic Church).

secondly: is the RC church the Whore and the Beast - yes or no.

which is the Beast, Hizikyah, and which is the Harlot.

Originally Posted by Hizikyah

1 Yahchanan (John) 2:18, "Little children, this is the last hour; and as you have heard that the Anti- Messiah will come, even now there are many Anti-Messiahs; by this we know that this is the last hour."

Revelation 13:18, "Here is wisdom: Let him who has understanding count the number of the beast; for it is the number of a man. And his number is 666."

Daniyl 8:11-13, "Yes, he magnified himself as high as the Prince of the host; and by him the daily sacrifices were taken away, and the place of the sanctuary was cast down. And a host was given him against the daily sacrifice by reason of transgression, and it cast down the truth to the ground; and it practiced, and succeeded. Then I heard one saint speaking, and another saint said to the one that spoke: How long will be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, the setting up of The Abomination of Desolation (Lord of Heaven), and the surrender of the sanctuary, and the host to be trampled underfoot?

as high as the Prince of the host that means as high as Yahshua this man calles himself. = Vicarius Filii Del

See the cheribims? he thinks he sitting on the mecry seat, that is the Most High's seat
2 Thessalonians 2:4, "Who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called gods or that is worshiped; so that he, as the Almighty, sits in the temple of Yahweh, showing himself that he is the Mighty One"

Originally Posted by Hizikyah

Revelation 17:4-5, "And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet color, and decked with gold, and precious stones, and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication. And upon her head was a name written: MYSTERY BABYLON THE GREAT THE MOTHER OF THE HARLOTS hAND OF THE iABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH."

Revelation 17:9, "And here is the mind which has wisdom: The seven heads are seven mountains on which the woman sits."

Revelation 13:6, "And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against Yahweh, to blaspheme His Name, and His House, and those who dwell in heaven."

"No 'Yahweh' in songs, prayers at Catholic Masses, Vatican rules"
catholicnews.com

Daniyl 7:25, "And he will speak great words against Yahweh, and will wear out; mentally attack to cause to fall away,
the saints of Yahweh, and think to change times and Laws"

"The Pope is of great authority and power that he can modify, explain, or interpret even divine laws... The Pope can modify divine law, since his power is not of man, but of God, and he acts as vicegerent of God upon earth." -Lucius Ferraris, Prompta Ribliotheca, "Papa," art. 2, translated.

“Sunday is our mark or authority...the church is above the Bible, and this transference of Sabbath observance is proof of that fact.” Catholic Record of London, Ontario, September 1, 1923.

which is the Beast, Hizikyah, and which is the Harlot.

Revelation 17:3 "So he carried me away in the Spirit into the midst of godworshipers and I saw a woman sitting on a scarlet colored beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns."

the whore "rides" the beast, aka controls, but yes the beast (system) will turn on rome and destroy it.

 

[Hizikyah]

we got one to go........................

 

[zone]

Dispensational truth does not force anything to be or to happen as you suggest.

it forced you to.
and you continue to try to bury it.

That is absurd and you are trying to manipulate a precious saint through humiliation.

who - you
you are a false teacher.

You are the one who is confounded about all this because of your premise. Dispensational truth assists the believer in understanding what God has done, is doing and will do with the world, the church and with Israel in this life and in the next life to come.

there is no Dispensational truth as you dish it out:

Paul had received by revelation a measure of grace according to God's purpose that he was to administer, dispense, oversee and manage in terms of its affairs, its doctrine and the building up of believers as a habitation of God through the Spirit.

This was to be done by faith and all under the stewardship of this grace that was given.

This was never offered to Israel nor was it a part of the commonwealth of Israel.

It was solely offered to the church as part of the manifold grace and wisdom of God according to God's purpose to reveal the mystery of Christ and the church.

It excluded Israel as a people and nation.....BradC

Dispensational truth assists the believer in understanding what God has done, is doing and will do with the world, the church and with Israel in this life and in the next life to come.

does it really.
Israel excluded from her own promises.
ya thats as clear as mud.

That is a great thing and benefit for the believer to take hold of because without it the believer gets caught with lumping everything together without the important distinctions that the scriptures make from the time of Adam all the way through to the eternal state of the new heaven and earth and eternity.

lumping everything together...that is what you call Gods SINGLE PURPOSE.

the important distinctions that the scriptures make from the time of Adam all the way through to the eternal state of the new heaven and earth and eternity.

Comparing, then, what is said in Scripture concerning Israel and the Church, [a careful Bible student] finds that in origin, calling, promise, worship, principles of conduct, and future destiny--all is contrast." - C.I. Scofield

the "basic premise of Dispensationalism is two purposes of God expressed in the formation of two peoples who maintain their distinction throughout eternity." - Charles Ryrie

You want Israel and the promises made to her out of the picture and the scriptures do not permit you to do that, so you have to kill and murder dispensational truth

You want Israel and the promises made to her out of the picture

Paul had received by revelation a measure of grace according to God's purpose that he was to administer, dispense, oversee and manage in terms of its affairs, its doctrine and the building up of believers as a habitation of God through the Spirit.

This was to be done by faith and all under the stewardship of this grace that was given.

This was never offered to Israel nor was it a part of the commonwealth of Israel.

It was solely offered to the church as part of the manifold grace and wisdom of God according to God's purpose to reveal the mystery of Christ and the church.

It excluded Israel as a people and nation.....BradC

discredit those who make those distinctions through the promises of God. You lump it all together because that is how you want it and understand it from your own doctrinal veiwpoint. You do not want to be associated with the kind of believer who identifies themselves with dispensational truth.

cant help ya. i have little sympathy - youve done it to yourself and refuse any help.
you can add the word truth to the word Dispensational - that does not make it truth.
it aint. its ridiculous.
you discredit yourself.

pretrib rapture being the perfect example.
severing Daniels 70th week where everything promised to Israel was accomplished; them then being called and save just like everyone else according to the Gospel you think Paul inserted for the Mystery Parenthesis Plan B Gap church.

That kind of leaven you exhibit is rooted in deceit. Anytime someone mentions scripture for which you have no sound explanation for, to coordinate with your understanding, you must discredit them and any dispensational understanding they have.

yawn.

That has nothing to do with coming to the knowledge of the truth. Many issues have been presented to you from many believers and sources on this site and you knock them down like bowling pins and all your cohorts who identify with you and your doctrine and clap their hands and say good job Zone, you have made us proud and we feel better about our position in these things.

grow up Red

Your false premise is this, 'YOU DO NOT LIKE NOR UNDERSTAND HOW GOD'S FAVOR COULD BE UPON SUCH A NATION AND PEOPLE (AS THE APPLE OF HIS EYE) WHO HAVE BEEN SO WICKED AND REBELLIOUS IN THEIR HEART AGAINST SUCH A MERCIFUL AND LOVING GOD AND FAITHFUL HUSBAND, WHO HAS DELIVERED THEM OVER AND OVER.

Paul had received by revelation a measure of grace according to God's purpose that he was to administer, dispense, oversee and manage in terms of its affairs, its doctrine and the building up of believers as a habitation of God through the Spirit.

This was to be done by faith and all under the stewardship of this grace that was given.

This was never offered to Israel nor was it a part of the commonwealth of Israel.

It was solely offered to the church as part of the manifold grace and wisdom of God according to God's purpose to reveal the mystery of Christ and the church.

It excluded Israel as a people and nation.....BradC

HOW DARE THEY MAKE A CLAIM TO A LAND THEY CONSIDER TO BE THEIR POSSESSION AT THE EXCLUSION OF ALL OTHERS. THEY HAVE NO RIGHTS. THEY REJECTED THE MESSIAH AND CONTINUE TO DO SO AND HOW IT IS EVEN POSSIBLE FOR THEM TO BE RESTORED AS A NATION AND PEOPLE WHEN THEY LIVE IN SUCH UNBELIEF AND DISDAIN FOR OTHERS. THEY ARE NO BETTER THAN THE GENTILES SO WHY IS GOD FAVORING THEM AFTER ALL THESE YEARS HAVING ACCOMPLISHED SO MUCH WICKEDNESS WHICH INCLUDES CRUCIFYING THE SON OF GOD WHO THEY MOCKED, RIDICULED AND REJECTED.

Isaiah 11:10–12
“Then in that day the nations will resort to the root of Jesse, Who will stand as a signal for the peoples; And His resting place will be glorious. Then it will happen on that day that the Lord will again recover the second time with His hand The remnant of His people, who will remain, From Assyria, Egypt, Pathros, Cush, Elam, Shinar, Hamath, And from the islands of the sea. And He will lift up a standard for the nations And assemble the banished ones of Israel, And will gather the dispersed of Judah From the four corners of the earth. ”

Jeremiah 29:10–14
“For thus says the LORD, ‘When seventy years have been completed for Babylon, I will visit you and fulfill My good word to you, to bring you back to this place. ‘For I know the plans that I have for you,’ declares the LORD, ‘plans for welfare and not for calamity to give you a future and a hope. ‘Then you will call upon Me and come and pray to Me, and I will listen to you. ‘You will seek Me and find Me when you search for Me with all your heart. ‘I will be found by you,’ declares the LORD, ‘and I will restore your fortunes and will gather you from all the nations and from all the places where I have driven you,’ declares the LORD, ‘and I will bring you back to the place from where I sent you into exile.’

Isaiah 2:2
“Now it will come about that In the last days The mountain of the house of the LORD Will be established as the chief of the mountains, And will be raised above the hills; And all the nations will stream to it. ”

Hebrews 1
1God, after He spoke long ago to the fathers in the prophets in many portions and in many ways, 2in these last days has spoken to us in His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the world. 3And He is the radiance of His glory and the exact representation of His nature, and upholds all things by the word of His power. When He had made purification of sins, He sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high

Hebrews 12
But you have come to Mount Zion, to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem.

deal with it.

 

[zone]

Revelation 13:7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them. And authority was given him over all tribes, and peoples and languages, and nations.

religious
Revelation 17:2 & 4, With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication; practiced idolatry and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication. "And upon her head was a name written: MYSTERY BABYLON THE GREAT THE MOTHER OF THE HARLOTS AND OF THE ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH."

a woman is a righteous religion and a whore or harlot is a adulterous religion. APOSTATE. This is ABCs.

military
Among MANY other verse:

Revelation 13:& 4 2 And they worshiped the dragon which gave power to the beast; and they worshiped the beast, saying: Who is like the beast? Who is able to make war with him?

financial

Revelation 18:3, "For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth have grown rich through the abundance of her delicacies."

you really think daniyl and revelation are not connected, you are either lost or a deceiver. Only one new to the word would honestly think that.

Daniyl 7:7, After this I saw in the night visions, and behold, a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, and exceedingly strong; and it had great iron teeth; it devoured and broke in pieces, then trampled the residue with its feet. It was G6different from all the beasts that were before it; and it had ten horns."

Revelation 17:12, "And the ten horns which you saw are ten kings, which as yet have not received a kingdom; but receive authority as kings one hour with the beast."

there are differeng voews on the ten horns - i do not care about views. scripture interprets scripture. if you do not know, say so.

I said that because I dont subscribe to the 10 european nations, IT IS A WORLD SYSTEM, cant be just europe.

Revelation 13:7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them. And authority was given him over all tribes, and peoples and languages, and nations.

Revelation 17:12, "And the ten horns which you saw are ten kings, which as yet have not received a kingdom; but receive authority as kings one hour with the beast."

those documents are the plan to have the world divided into 10 unions. see above Scripture.

Revelation 13:7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them. And authority was given him over all tribes, and peoples and languages, and nations.

Revelation 17:12, "And the ten horns which you saw are ten kings, which as yet have not received a kingdom; but receive authority as kings one hour with the beast."

1 Yahchanan (John) 2:18, "Little children, this is the last hour; and as you have heard that the Anti- Messiah will come, even now there are many Anti-Messiahs; by this we know that this is the last hour."

Revelation 13:18, "Here is wisdom: Let him who has understanding count the number of the beast; for it is the number of a man. And his number is 666."

Daniyl 8:11-13, "Yes, he magnified himself as high as the Prince of the host; and by him the daily sacrifices were taken away, and the place of the sanctuary was cast down. And a host was given him against the daily sacrifice by reason of transgression, and it cast down the truth to the ground; and it practiced, and succeeded. Then I heard one saint speaking, and another saint said to the one that spoke: How long will be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, the setting up of The Abomination of Desolation (Lord of Heaven), and the surrender of the sanctuary, and the host to be trampled underfoot?

as high as the Prince of the host that means as high as Yahshua this man calles himself. = Vicarius Filii Del

see the cheribims? he thinks he sitting on the mecry seat, that is the Most High's seat

2 Thessalonians 2:4, "Who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called gods or that is worshiped; so that he, as the Almighty, sits in the temple of Yahweh, showing himself that he is the Mighty One"

17:4-5, "And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet color, and decked with gold, and precious stones, and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication. And upon her head was a name written: MYSTERY BABYLON THE GREAT THE MOTHER OF THE HARLOTS hAND OF THE iABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH."

Revelation 17:9, "And here is the mind which has wisdom: The seven heads are seven mountains on which the woman sits."

Revelation 13:6, "And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against Yahweh, to blaspheme His Name, and His House, and those who dwell in heaven."

Daniyl 7:25, "And he will speak great words against Yahweh, and will wear out; mentally attack to cause to fall away,
the saints of Yahweh, and think to change times and Laws,

Revelation 17:3 "So he carried me away in the Spirit into the midst of godworshipers and I saw a woman sitting on a scarlet colored beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns."

the whore "rides" the beast, aka controls, but yes the beast (system) will turn on rome and destroy it.

now that we've cleaned up this post - let's see what you have done.

(in the future, if you refuse to use the texts, our discussion is over)

Revelation 13:7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them. And authority was given him over all tribes, and peoples and languages, and nations.

HIM WHO? the pope? let's see.
since the request was for SCRIPTURE, not PICTURE, that's what we will use.

religious
Revelation 17:2 & 4, With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication; practiced idolatry and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication. "And upon her head was a name written: MYSTERY BABYLON THE GREAT THE MOTHER OF THE HARLOTS AND OF THE ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH."

okay...so the Vatican is the Harlot according to this, right?
and this is it's leader: The Pope...the pope is the BEAST, and the harlot is the RC - right?

Revelation 13:7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them. And authority was given him over all tribes, and peoples and languages, and nations.

a woman is a righteous religion and a whore or harlot is a adulterous religion. APOSTATE. This is ABCs.

agree.
so, your premise is, Revelation is referring to an apostate woman, an adulterous woman, who was once in relationship with God, but prostituted herself....and is the RC church.

military
Among MANY other verse:

Revelation 13:& 4 2 And they worshiped the dragon which gave power to the beast; and they worshiped the beast, saying: Who is like the beast? Who is able to make war with him?

alright...so the Vatican is the Great Harlot; the Pope is the Beast; and people worship the Pope because satan the Dragon gave him power over the nations, and made them all worship the Pope (the beast); saying - who is able to make war with the Pope?

because the pope hold the military power.

financial

Revelation 18:3, "For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth have grown rich through the abundance of her delicacies."

so were are back to the RC Church being the WOMAN, the Harlot.
she has all the wealth, and all the nations on earth have grown rich through the abundance of the vaticans delicacies.
i presume they are today's bankers?

you really think daniyl and revelation are not connected, you are either lost or a deceiver. Only one new to the word would honestly think that.

i never said they weren't connected.
you just have no clue how.

you're the babe here...so watch your mouth.

Daniyl 7:7, After this I saw in the night visions, and behold, a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, and exceedingly strong; and it had great iron teeth; it devoured and broke in pieces, then trampled the residue with its feet. It was G6different from all the beasts that were before it; and it had ten horns."

now that we think we've established the Harlot is the Vatican; and the pope is the Beast.....we swing over to Daniel and try to make it future too.

okay...let's see.

the fourth beast. ROME. check.

BEFORE PROCEEDING any further: was the fourth beast in Daniel's vision Imperial Rome of CHRIST'S FIRST ADVENT or not?

....i'm snipping the remainder of this post, and pasting it following.

cont.......

if you come back with pictures, i'm not cleaning it up again to get to the scriptures.
if your ideas don't work by scripture, don't bother.

 

[zone]

continuing from Hizikyah's post.....i'll come back to this Hizikyah.
in the meantime, you HAVE TO deal with this: 10

where'd you get the TEN from?

I said that because I dont subscribe to the 10 european nations, IT IS A WORLD SYSTEM, cant be just europe.

Daniyl 7:7, After this I saw in the night visions, and behold, a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, and exceedingly strong; and it had great iron teeth; it devoured and broke in pieces, then trampled the residue with its feet. It was G6different from all the beasts that were before it; and it had ten horns.".

Revelation 17:12, "And the ten horns which you saw are ten kings, which as yet have not received a kingdom; but receive authority as kings one hour with the beast."

there are differeng voews on the ten horns - i do not care about views. scripture interprets scripture. if you do not know, say so.

I said that because I dont subscribe to the 10 european nations, IT IS A WORLD SYSTEM, cant be just europe.

Revelation 13:7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them. And authority was given him over all tribes, and peoples and languages, and nations.

Revelation 17:12, "And the ten horns which you saw are ten kings, which as yet have not received a kingdom; but receive authority as kings one hour with the beast."

those documents are the plan to have the world divided into 10 unions. see above Scripture.

Revelation 13:7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them. And authority was given him over all tribes, and peoples and languages, and nations.

Revelation 17:12, "And the ten horns which you saw are ten kings, which as yet have not received a kingdom; but receive authority as kings one hour with the beast."

1 Yahchanan (John) 2:18, "Little children, this is the last hour; and as you have heard that the Anti- Messiah will come, even now there are many Anti-Messiahs; by this we know that this is the last hour."

Revelation 13:18, "Here is wisdom: Let him who has understanding count the number of the beast; for it is the number of a man. And his number is 666."

Daniyl 8:11-13, "Yes, he magnified himself as high as the Prince of the host; and by him the daily sacrifices were taken away, and the place of the sanctuary was cast down. And a host was given him against the daily sacrifice by reason of transgression, and it cast down the truth to the ground; and it practiced, and succeeded. Then I heard one saint speaking, and another saint said to the one that spoke: How long will be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, the setting up of The Abomination of Desolation (Lord of Heaven), and the surrender of the sanctuary, and the host to be trampled underfoot?

as high as the Prince of the host that means as high as Yahshua this man calles himself. = Vicarius Filii Del

see the cheribims? he thinks he sitting on the mecry seat, that is the Most High's seat

2 Thessalonians 2:4, "Who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called gods or that is worshiped; so that he, as the Almighty, sits in the temple of Yahweh, showing himself that he is the Mighty One"

17:4-5, "And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet color, and decked with gold, and precious stones, and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication. And upon her head was a name written: MYSTERY BABYLON THE GREAT THE MOTHER OF THE HARLOTS hAND OF THE iABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH."

Revelation 17:9, "And here is the mind which has wisdom: The seven heads are seven mountains on which the woman sits."

Revelation 13:6, "And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against Yahweh, to blaspheme His Name, and His House, and those who dwell in heaven."

Daniyl 7:25, "And he will speak great words against Yahweh, and will wear out; mentally attack to cause to fall away,
the saints of Yahweh, and think to change times and Laws,

Revelation 17:3 "So he carried me away in the Spirit into the midst of godworshipers and I saw a woman sitting on a scarlet colored beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns."

the whore "rides" the beast, aka controls, but yes the beast (system) will turn on rome and destroy it.

 

[Hizikyah]

continuing from Hizikyah's post.....i'll come back to this Hizikyah.
in the meantime, you HAVE TO deal with this: 10

where'd you get the TEN from?

I see why you have the doctrine you do, first there is no 1000 years, even though it says it minimum 4 times, and now no 10 when it was in my post you quoted a number of times.

Daniyl 7:7, After this I saw in the night visions, and behold, a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, and exceedingly strong; and it had great iron teeth; it devoured and broke in pieces, then trampled the residue with its feet. It was different from all the beasts that were before it; and it had ten horns.".

Revelation 17:12, "And the ten horns which you saw are ten kings, which as yet have not received a kingdom; but receive authority as kings one hour with the beast."

 

[zone]

I see why you have the doctrine you do, first there is no 1000 years, even though it says it minimum 4 times, and now no 10 when it was in my post you quoted a number of times.

Daniyl 7:7, After this I saw in the night visions, and behold, a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, and exceedingly strong; and it had great iron teeth; it devoured and broke in pieces, then trampled the residue with its feet. It was different from all the beasts that were before it; and it had ten horns.".

Revelation 17:12, "And the ten horns which you saw are ten kings, which as yet have not received a kingdom; but receive authority as kings one hour with the beast."

YOU SAID:
there are differeng voews on the ten horns

I SAID:
i do not care about views. scripture interprets scripture. if you do not know, say so.

YOU SAID:
I said that because I dont subscribe to the 10 european nations, IT IS A WORLD SYSTEM, cant be just europe.

now you quote scripture.

please tell me - using Scripture to identify the TEN TOES; TEN KINGS; TEN HORNS.

you said it's a world system
but you got all those 10s to deal with.

what and who are they.

Daniyl 7:7, After this I saw in the night visions, and behold, a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, and exceedingly strong; and it had great iron teeth; it devoured and broke in pieces, then trampled the residue with its feet. It was different from all the beasts that were before it; and it had ten horns."

was the fourth beast in Daniel's vision Imperial Rome of CHRIST'S FIRST ADVENT or not?

Daniel 2
Daniel Interprets the Dream
31“You saw, O king, and behold, a great image. This image, mighty and of exceeding brightness, stood before you, and its appearance was frightening. 32The head of this image was of fine gold, its chest and arms of silver, its middle and thighs of bronze, 33its legs of iron, its feet partly of iron and partly of clay. 34As you looked, a stone was cut out by no human hand, and it struck the image on its feet of iron and clay, and broke them in pieces. 35Then the iron, the clay, the bronze, the silver, and the gold, all together were broken in pieces, and became like the chaff of the summer threshing floors; and the wind carried them away, so that not a trace of them could be found. But the stone that struck the image became a great mountain and filled the whole earth.

36“This was the dream. Now we will tell the king its interpretation. 37You, O king, the king of kings, to whom the God of heaven has given the kingdom, the power, and the might, and the glory, 38and into whose hand he has given, wherever they dwell, the children of man, the beasts of the field, and the birds of the heavens, making you rule over them all—you are the head of gold. 39Another kingdom inferior to you shall arise after you, and yet a third kingdom of bronze, which shall rule over all the earth. 40And there shall be a fourth kingdom, strong as iron, because iron breaks to pieces and shatters all things. And like iron that crushes, it shall break and crush all these. 41And as you saw the feet and toes, partly of potter’s clay and partly of iron, it shall be a divided kingdom, but some of the firmness of iron shall be in it, just as you saw iron mixed with the soft clay. 42And as the toes of the feet were partly iron and partly clay, so the kingdom shall be partly strong and partly brittle. 43As you saw the iron mixed with soft clay, so they will mix with one another in marriage,c but they will not hold together, just as iron does not mix with clay. 44And in the days of those kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that shall never be destroyed, nor shall the kingdom be left to another people. It shall break in pieces all these kingdoms and bring them to an end, and it shall stand forever, 45just as you saw that a stone was cut from a mountain by no human hand, and that it broke in pieces the iron, the bronze, the clay, the silver, and the gold. A great God has made known to the king what shall be after this. The dream is certain, and its interpretation sure.”

....

in the days of those kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom

are the 10 toes different from the ten horns/kings?
is the setting up of the kingdom future? because it says IN THE DAYS OF THOSE KINGS.
the fourth beast (kingdom) was either Imperial Rome, and existed when Jesus came the first time, or you have a giant GAP; the toes and kings of the fourth beast somehow became the popes, and the stone that struck the toes has not yet come.

which is it?

 

[Hizikyah]

stumblin and bumblin and fumblin!

 

[Hizikyah]

Daniyl even says 10 horns, yes toes and horns are the same.

Scripture doesnt specify their location BUT does say "receive authority as kings one hour with the beast" and seeing as this is a world ruling system Revelation 13:7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them. And authority was given him over all tribes, and peoples and languages, and nations. It will rule the whole earth UNTIL return of Messiah.

Daniyl 7:7, After this I saw in the night visions, and behold, a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, and exceedingly strong; and it had great iron teeth; it devoured and broke in pieces, then trampled the residue with its feet. It was different from all the beasts that were before it; and it had ten horns.".

Revelation 17:12, "And the ten horns which you saw are ten kings, which as yet have not received a kingdom; but receive authority as kings one hour with the beast."

Zonestantine, we debate alot but you are acting extra delusional today? Are you feeling ok?

 

[Hizikyah]

was the fourth beast in Daniel's vision Imperial Rome of CHRIST'S FIRST ADVENT or not?

the statue had iron legs and feet mixed, iron and clay...

Daniyl 2:33 His legs were of iron, and his feet were part iron and part clay.

the beast had a wound and did live...

Revelation 13:3, "And I saw one of his heads, as it were, wounded to death. And his deadly wound was healed; and all the world"

this mixing of iron and clay is a continuation of the same system, the IRON remains.

this is basic day one stuff here how can you be so....idk what to say here, off? deceptive? playing possum? concealing evil? IDK?

 

[zone]

the statue had iron legs and feet mixed, iron and clay...

Daniyl 2:33 His legs were of iron, and his feet were part iron and part clay.

the beast had a wound and did live...

Revelation 13:3, "And I saw one of his heads, as it were, wounded to death. And his deadly wound was healed; and all the world"

this mixing of iron and clay is a continuation of the same system, the IRON remains.

this is basic day one stuff here how can you be so....idk what to say here, off? deceptive? playing possum? concealing evil? IDK?

this is rubbish. you're making it up.

let's see what the bible says about when the days of those kings (it says in the days of one of those kingdoms - the fourth) was, and what struck the toes.

unless you're one who is trying to make the fourth Kingdom into a Fifth (which is not Christ's but the pope's)

WHEN DID THE GOD OF HEAVEN SAY HE SET UP HIS KINGDOM?
and what kings of the earth WAS HE TALKING ABOUT Hizikyah?

we're using scripture only.
let's see if we can find the kings and the toes of that fourth kingdom:

Psalm 2
The Reign of the LORD’s Anointed
1 Why do the nations ragea
and the peoples plot in vain?
2 The kings of the earth set themselves,
and the rulers take counsel together,
against the LORD and against his Anointed, saying,
3 “Let us burst their bonds apart
and cast away their cords from us.”

4 He who sits in the heavens laughs;
the Lord holds them in derision.
5 Then he will speak to them in his wrath,
and terrify them in his fury, saying,
6 “As for me, I have set my King
on Zion, my holy hill.”

7 I will tell of the decree:
The LORD said to me, “You are my Son;
today I have begotten you.
8 Ask of me, and I will make the nations your heritage,
and the ends of the earth your possession.
9 You shall breakb them with a rod of iron
and dash them in pieces like a potter’s vessel.”

10 Now therefore, O kings, be wise;
be warned, O rulers of the earth.
11 Serve the LORD with fear,
and rejoice with trembling.
12 Kiss the Son,
lest he be angry, and you perish in the way,
for his wrath is quickly kindled.
Blessed are all who take refuge in him.

let's see if The LORD mentions the pope:


Acts 4
23When they were released, they went to their friends and reported what the chief priests and the elders had said to them. 24And when they heard it, they lifted their voices together to God and said, “Sovereign Lord, who made the heaven and the earth and the sea and everything in them, 25who through the mouth of our father David, your servant,c said by the Holy Spirit,

“‘Why did the Gentiles rage,
and the peoples plot in vain?
26 The kings of the earth set themselves,
and the rulers were gathered together,
against the Lord and against his Anointed’


27for truly in this city there were gathered together against your holy servant Jesus, whom you anointed, both Herod and Pontius Pilate, along with the Gentiles and the peoples of Israel, 28to do whatever your hand and your plan had predestined to take place. 29And now, Lord, look upon their threats and grant to your servantse to continue to speak your word with all boldness, 30while you stretch out your hand to heal, and signs and wonders are performed through the name of your holy servant Jesus.” 31And when they had prayed, the place in which they were gathered together was shaken, and they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and continued to speak the word of God with boldness.

...


“‘Why did the Gentiles rage [ROMANS]
and the peoples plot in vain? [APSTOTATE SOMEBODY - THE HARLOT]
The kings of the earth set themselves, [ROMANS]
and the rulers were gathered together, [APSTOTATE SOMEBODY - THE HARLOT]
against the Lord and against his Anointed’
[/B]

for truly in this city [JERUSALEM] there were gathered together against your holy servant Jesus, whom you anointed, both [COLOR="#0000CD"]Herod and Pontius Pilate, along with the Gentiles and the peoples of Israel[/COLOR]


where's the POPE and the revived roman empire?

isn't that the 4th kingdom there?
OVERCOME BY THE ONE GOD SET UP?

4 He who sits in the heavens laughs;
the Lord holds them in derision.
5 Then he will speak to them in his wrath,
and terrify them in his fury, saying,
6 “As for me, I have set my King
on Zion, my holy hill.”


where is Zion, His Holy Mountain?
who is KING RIGHT NOW?

 

[zone]

the statue had iron legs and feet mixed, iron and clay...

Daniyl 2:33 His legs were of iron, and his feet were part iron and part clay.

the beast had a wound and did live...

Revelation 13:3, "And I saw one of his heads, as it were, wounded to death. And his deadly wound was healed; and all the world"

this mixing of iron and clay is a continuation of the same system, the IRON remains.

this is basic day one stuff here how can you be so....idk what to say here, off? deceptive? playing possum? concealing evil? IDK?

Revelation 11:8
Their bodies will lie in the public square of the great city--which is figuratively called Sodom and Egypt--where also their Lord was crucified.

was Jesus crucified in Rome, Hizikyah?
why is Jerusalem called Sodom and Egypt?

 

[zone]

this is basic day one stuff

is it?
a thousand is exactly 1,000, and it's in our future.

but 10 doesn't mean 10 - it's a world system.
you don't go for the 10 nations, but don't say what the ten is.

you got 10 popes lined up? when did that start?

here how can you be so....idk what to say here, off? deceptive? playing possum? concealing evil? IDK?

it is you who is emulating the Great Harlot...how many times does Daniel cover the same kingdoms, Hizikyah?
how many times does Revelation do the same?

are all of Daniel's 70 weeks complete?

 

[zone]

stumblin and bumblin and fumblin!

get back to me on it.

 

[zone]

we got one to go........................

we got one what to go, Hizikyah?

wait...what's this?

Revelation 17:3
"So he carried me away in the Spirit into the midst of godworshipers and I saw a woman sitting on a scarlet colored beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns."

the whore "rides" the beast, aka controls, but yes the beast (system) will turn on rome and destroy it.



so, the popes are NOT the beast? who thought to change epochs and seasons?
or they are? (he is....he who? Constantine?)

was Constantine the beast who thought to change epochs and seasons?
then how is it the Papal beast rises up and destroys the Vatican Harlot?

which Pope thought to change epochs and seasons?
was he the Harlot or the beast?

 

[peacefulbeliever]

peacefulbeliever,
do you see what dispensationalism forces one to do?
you're now down to one single verse...clinging to that, as some sort of proof, that there will be a Millennium.
got anything else?

My point wasn't for the Millennium nor against the Millennium; don't believe I even mentioned the Millennium - the argument stands that these verses are speaking of the new heaven and new earth - my point - How can it be when there is still death and sin? The fact is it's there written but being totally ignored and I am accused of reading something that's not there.

so, at least I am not ignoring what is written in the context to fit my doctrine.

 

[peacefulbeliever]

It wouldn't so bad except it's taken out of context and forced to say something it doesn't say. And it's being forced to say there will be DEATH in the new heavens and new earth which CONTRADICTS other scripture that says there will be no more death.

Taken out of context? I read it just as it is written within the context - Does it or does it not mention dying? Does it or does it not mention "sinners"? Exactly what I was pointing out to you THE CONTRADICTION. . . .

1 Peter 3

13 But according to his promise we are waiting for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells.

Revelation 21

Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and the sea was no more. And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Behold, the dwelling place of God is with man. He will dwell with them, and they will be his people, and God himself will be with them as their God. He will wipe away every tear from their eyes, and death shall be no more, neither shall there be mourning, nor crying, nor pain anymore, for the former things have passed away.” And he who was seated on the throne said, “Behold, I am making all things new.” Also he said, “Write this down, for these words are trustworthy and true.”


​

(By the way John is quoting Isaiah 65:17 so John is clarifying that passage and he specifically says there will be NO MORE DEATH)​

"He will wipe away every tear from their eyes, and death shall be no more" . . . . if you will read it is not a direct quote. This is quoted: Isaiah 65:17 - "the former shall not be remembered, nor come to mind" and v19 - "and the voice of weeping shall be no more heard in her, nor the voice of crying". Is "mourning" mentioned in Isaiah 65? Which is what you tried to bring in earlier but it's not stated in Isaiah 65 because Isaiah 65 has "death" but here "no death".
​

 

[Hizikyah]

Revelation 11:8
Their bodies will lie in the public square of the great city--which is figuratively called Sodom and Egypt--where also their Lord was crucified.

was Jesus crucified in Rome, Hizikyah?
why is Jerusalem called Sodom and Egypt?

Yeremyah 23:15, "Therefore, this is what Yahweh of hosts says concerning these prophets; Behold, I will feed them with wormwood, and make them drink the water of gall; for from the prophets of Yerusalem profaneness has gone out into all the land."

How was Rome founded? 2 twins suckled a she wolf? Nope. Yet there is no reliable history of its founding.....certianly Yerusalem plays a large role in mystery babylon....