The King James Bible

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fredoheaven

Senior Member
Nov 17, 2015
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While I am totally committed to the accuracy of the KJV, it has puzzled me as to why that was not rendered as "heavens" (plural) even though the Hebrew is clearly plural, and theologically it also makes perfect sense. The Septuagint also corresponds to the KJV. I don't believe we have seen a good explanation for this anomaly.

haš·šā·ma·yim
הַשָּׁמַ֖יִם
the heavens


I would kindly refer to the both the critical scholars and the KJ translators that says haš·šā·ma·yim
הַשָּׁמַ֖יִם. as the heavens is true as it rendered in the other passages of the Bible but it would be also be truer using the same Hebrew text who we have evidently used the word in singular. If we look on the NASB word usage alone, that could not be an even! Assuming it is an even, and then the treatment is found in the context. Context determines the true rendering otherwise the Bible is full of contradiction but who will go with that?

Of course, I have already cited non bias sources including Strong. Here are the reasons why it must be heaven and not heavens in the particular text of Genesis 1:1

1. Because if it’s been rendered heavens is true at the beginning of creation then God would not have need of further creation of vast expanse of firmament/(use as plural meaning heavens) universe, galaxies or Milky ways which created until day 2.

2. According to William Rosenau, (google it) that such word in Hebrew, however, the plural form may identify size rather than number in certain contexts. Such a plural is called a "plural of extension or amplification"

3. Further, Gessenius, a critical scholar give us an example of the plural extension to some Hebraic expressions. Examples of (a): Plurals of local extension to denote localities in general, but especially level surfaces (the surface-plural), since in them the idea of a whole composed of innumerable separate parts or points is most evident, as שָׁמַ֫יִם‎(§88d) heaven (cf. also מְרוֹמִים‎ heights of heaven,

https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Gesenius'_Hebrew_Grammar/124._The_Various_Uses_of_the_Plural-form

So simple and short, the KJV is correct.

God bless
 

Joseppi

Senior Member
Jan 4, 2018
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Um, didn't Egbert rule all the English-speaking people in the 800s, for a time?
Like hundreds of years prior to James?
It is King James I.
Previously Scotland and England had division until Elizabeth died and King James IV of Scotland united them under his kingship.

The comtrn man's free use of the Holy Bible gave birth to a invigorated English language at all levels of society.
Until then the common man was dumbed down by the ecclesiastical powers.

The Lord God always blesses the nations that honor it and if you look around you'll see that every natiion against it suffers.

America is hated because we have the Holy Bible and honor it.
It frightens Satan greatly for he is a liar and can't abide truth.
 

fredoheaven

Senior Member
Nov 17, 2015
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The Holy Bible is the truth.
The ancient corrupt New Testament texts that were used to make a patchwork modern text that todays false bibles are translated from were found to be unused texts.
The were unused because the are obviously corrupt and no common man was stupid enough to want a copy.


The true text of the New Testament was copied in great numbers and that text appeared in Europe around the first millenium A.. D.
They appeared immediately after the surge in greek learning had arisen in the universities of Europe.
Once the common man received the Holy Bible the dark ages were indeed over and open warfare against the Holy Bible began.
God brought his Holy Bible to America in the care of the pilgrims and freedom in America was the result.
God has been preparing to evangelize the whole world by use of it since that time.
It can't be stopped because the Holy Ghost honors it and promotes its use.
This extended in the Philippines...Missionary movement flourished in the tiny islands of the Philippines using God's Holy Word for 300 years colinization of the Spaniards who brought the Religion of Catholcism.

Well. that's another story...

God bless
 
Dec 28, 2016
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The Holy languages been translated from the English into many languages.
Huh? The holy languages** were Hebrew and Greek with a little Aramaic in Daniel. English was not even a language during biblical times.

**I mean holy in the words of God were written in these languages, not that they were holy in and of themselves.
 

Joseppi

Senior Member
Jan 4, 2018
887
7
18
While I am totally committed to the accuracy of the KJV, it has puzzled me as to why that was not rendered as "heavens" (plural) even though the Hebrew is clearly plural, and theologically it also makes perfect sense. The Septuagint also corresponds to the KJV. I don't believe we have seen a good explanation for this anomaly.

haš·šā·ma·yim
הַשָּׁמַ֖יִם
the heavens


When God created the singular heaven he also created the earth in the manner in which it is described in verse 2.

Verse 2 describes the esrth as a lump of watery clay fit for the Potter's use when the right time came.
Until then the angel dwelt with God until in the process of time the Luciferian rebelliin against the word of God began.
Once the rebellion began (not the open warfare of Revelation 12) then God establish law as the legal means by which all truth would be manifest in good order.
The earth wad created as the legal means by which all truth is established by God.
God sent his only begotten Son in a body of earth to establish the truth and authority of. God on earth.
And once Jesus arose from the dead and ascended into heaven he was legally proven holy and righteous according to law,.even by his blood.
And with his blood the temple in heaven was cleansed.
Jesus then ascended the throne of God according to his worthiness. (as revealed in the book of the Revelation)

By this means Jesus became Lord of Heaven and earth thus uniting all creation.
 

Joseppi

Senior Member
Jan 4, 2018
887
7
18
Huh? The holy languages** were Hebrew and Greek with a little Aramaic in Daniel. English was not even a language during biblical times.

**I mean holy in the words of God were written in these languages, not that they were holy in and of themselves.
Neither Greek nor Hebrew nor English nor any language is holy or special in anyway.
As for translstion the Holy Ghist proved to the church at Pentecost that God can easily translates into any and all languages instantaeneously.

What was difficult was finding men of faith to do the work of completing and publishing God's written word in book form in obedience to the unction of the Holy Ghost.
 
Dec 28, 2016
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Neither Greek nor Hebrew nor English nor any language is holy or special in anyway.
As for translstion the Holy Ghist proved to the church at Pentecost that God can easily translates into any and all languages instantaeneously.

What was difficult was finding men of faith to do the work of completing and publishing God's written word in book form in obedience to the unction of the Holy Ghost.
Do you believe the KJV translators were inspired as they translated the KJV?
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
37,844
13,558
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It is King James I.
Previously Scotland and England had division until Elizabeth died and King James IV of Scotland united them under his kingship.

The comtrn man's free use of the Holy Bible gave birth to a invigorated English language at all levels of society.
Until then the common man was dumbed down by the ecclesiastical powers.

The Lord God always blesses the nations that honor it and if you look around you'll see that every natiion against it suffers.

America is hated because we have the Holy Bible and honor it.
It frightens Satan greatly for he is a liar and can't abide truth.
Previous to James IV i was under the impression that the Scots spoke Gaelic, not English. Such that practically every king of Anglo Saxony prior to him was presiding over 'all the English-speaking people in the world'
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
37,844
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Also you got a pretty wrong idea about why the world hates America

In general it is for reasons that are closer to do with being very much not Christian in word and deed as a nation. You'd think England would be hated all the more if what you say is true.
 

Joseppi

Senior Member
Jan 4, 2018
887
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There is much more going on than doubtful men suppose.

We have no need of helps to correct the corruption found in the modern unauthorized bibles.
None of us can by any means improve the Holy Bible nor present by intense laboring in Greek or Hebrew any revelation not already in plain English.

Nor shall the Holy Bible ever fail to establish the truth of God in us and set the record straight if we are faithful to truth.

Without the Holy Bible we will fail to understand end times prophecy.

Do not remain ignorant of what is written in the Holy Bible.
And take heed and realize that Satan is attempting to dumb us down at all costsatBe wsry for the end is fast approaching.

Let your eye be single and the lamp of God your only light.
 
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Joseppi

Senior Member
Jan 4, 2018
887
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Do you believe the KJV translators were inspired as they translated the KJV?
They were kept under the fear of King James I, and so they were not perfect men.
Their own preface reveals that they were not fully aware of what the Holy Ghost was doing.
Their notes were lost and the matter is simply closed.
What we have is what God has delivered into our hands.
The Holy Bible is the evidence of who wrote it.
 

Lucy-Pevensie

Senior Member
Dec 20, 2017
9,386
5,725
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It is King James I.
Previously Scotland and England had division until Elizabeth died and King James IV of Scotland united them under his kingship.

The comtrn man's free use of the Holy Bible gave birth to a invigorated English language at all levels of society.
Until then the common man was dumbed down by the ecclesiastical powers.

The Lord God always blesses the nations that honor it and if you look around you'll see that every natiion against it suffers.

America is hated because we have the Holy Bible and honor it.
It frightens Satan greatly for he is a liar and can't abide truth.
Joseppi, the history of my people goes back far more than 400 years, as does the English language.
You seem to have ignored previous posts on the matter and believe only a narrative that you want to believe despite facts.
 

Lucy-Pevensie

Senior Member
Dec 20, 2017
9,386
5,725
113
Also you got a pretty wrong idea about why the world hates America

In general it is for reasons that are closer to do with being very much not Christian in word and deed as a nation. You'd think England would be hated all the more if what you say is true.
We are hated. Everyone hates us including our own government.
 

Joseppi

Senior Member
Jan 4, 2018
887
7
18
Joseppi, the history of my people goes back far more than 400 years, as does the English language.
You seem to have ignored previous posts on the matter and believe only a narrative that you want to believe despite facts.
I am not aware of my ignoring posts.
However, there are off topic posts usually derogatory or comments about I have no comment about.
 

Joseppi

Senior Member
Jan 4, 2018
887
7
18
Also you got a pretty wrong idea about why the world hates America

In general it is for reasons that are closer to do with being very much not Christian in word and deed as a nation. You'd think England would be hated all the more if what you say is true.
The world, the flesh and the devil are against God. The evidence is everywhere. The love and righteousness they have is false. And the history they tell is propoganda. They promote unbelief in God and give him only lip service.
Its another topic altogether.
 

Lucy-Pevensie

Senior Member
Dec 20, 2017
9,386
5,725
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I am not aware of my ignoring posts.
However, there are off topic posts usually derogatory or comments about I have no comment about.
Pages ago I spoke about the history of the English language. There was nothing derogatory. (or off topic) It's a familiar subject to me.
If you are closed off to conversation it isn't the fault of others. I stated quite clearly several pages ago that I am Not on a campaign to stop people reading the KJV of the Bible. I am calling it The Bible am I not? It's people like you who are making derogatory comments concerning plain English translations. Calling them corrupt. Then you expect no one to defend them.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
25,487
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... Of course, I have already cited non bias sources including Strong.
For the record, Strong is NOT unbiased. Strong built his concordance/dictionary on the usage of words in the KJV, not in the original languages. When it comes to comparing one translation against another, there could not be a more biased source of information!
 

hornetguy

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2016
7,115
1,745
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Genesis 1: KJV
1 "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth."

This is correct.. At the time God created The Heaven ( not the heavens that being the universe stars and such) and the earth.. So all there was was Heaven and earth.. Later God created the ""heavens" meaning the sun and moon and stars... So the KJV is correct.. :)
Oh, darn it..... now I have to go be saved again.......:rolleyes:

on second thought, I might have to just go atheist on you guys.... my faith is shaken to the core.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
37,844
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We are hated. Everyone hates us including our own government.
how much of that do you think is "because the British read the kjv" ? or even "because nationally they act like Christ" ?

i'm still thinking, little of it. probably the opposite. as far as i am aware, America is hated for her lascivious materialism, vanity, imperialism and greed. yes, also, for being gracious toward Israel ((among moslems)) but what does any of that have to do with kjv?

is England hated for the same things? 'lion of Tarshish' and 'her young lions'
 

Lucy-Pevensie

Senior Member
Dec 20, 2017
9,386
5,725
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how much of that do you think is "because the British read the kjv" ? or even "because nationally they act like Christ" ?

i'm still thinking, little of it. probably the opposite. as far as i am aware, America is hated for her lascivious materialism, vanity, imperialism and greed. yes, also, for being gracious toward Israel ((among moslems)) but what does any of that have to do with kjv?

is England hated for the same things? 'lion of Tarshish' and 'her young lions'
Hatred of Western civilisation is pure jealousy, nothing more. The pretence that we are the epitome of evil is just an excuse to plunder. We haven't done any worse than any other big empire and far better than some. Those that hate us are certainly in no fit position to be casting the first stone. I'm sure it has nothing to do with the KJV expressly. Judeo-Christian heritage does play a large part though.