The Law of Moses Has Not Been Abolished

TimeTravler · Apr 24, 2017

The Law of Moses has not been abolished, because heaven and earth has not yet passed away, hence "unit heaven and earth pass away, not one jot or tittle will pass away from the Law..." and "whoever sets aside the least of the commands, will be called least...". Even Paul says, "we do not nullify the Law by this faith, but we uphold the Law". Let's start a discussion on these matters.

Has it already been fulfilled?

christig · Apr 24, 2017

TimeTravler said:

Read my last response in this thread.

TimeTravler · Apr 24, 2017

christig said:

What do you do till it is fulfilled?

Locutus · Apr 24, 2017

Of course all things have been fulfilled - you just need to accept what Jesus said:

Luk 21:22 (Young's) because these are days of vengeance, to fulfil all things that have been written.

Desertsrose · Apr 24, 2017

christig said:

Hi Chris,

Jesus said he didn't come to abolish the Law, but to fulfill it. So He fulfilled the law for us so that we don't come under the condemnation of the law because no one can fulfill every commandment and so we were all cursed. Jesus took our curse upon Him. Oh what lovingkindness!

All have sinned and fall short of God's glory. No one is righteous, no not one.Jesus has set us free from the curse of the law.For you were called to freedom, brethren; only do not turn your freedom into an opportunity for the flesh, but through love serve one another.

For the whole Law is fulfilled in one word, in the statement, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” But if you bite and devour one another, take care that you are not consumed by one another.But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not carry out the desire of the flesh.

For the flesh sets its desire against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; for these are in opposition to one another, so that you may not do the things that you please. But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the Law. Galatians 5:13-18

All of the Law and Prophets are fulfilled in two commands......Love God will all our heart, soul, mind and strength and love our neighbor as ourself.

Jesus said that love does no harm to His neighbor. We've been set free to serve one another in love.I love the Law. Along with David I could read Psalm 119........all of it and say yes and amen to everything he said.

It's what Christ has done for us that we're able to fulfill the righteous requirements of the Law, because He fulfilled every single one. And now that we're in Him and we've been crucified in Him, we now walk in newness of life in Him.

The Holy Spirit enables us to fulfill the righteousness requirements of the Law through the power of the Holy Spirit. But we're not under Law, we're under grace.

We've been set free, not only from the Law's penalty, but from our inability to obey the commands of God. In Him, we're now able to deny our carnal desires so that we can walk in obedience and in truth in the power of the Holy Spirit who lives in us.

Yahshua · Apr 24, 2017

Yahshua said:

The 1st Covenant
Made in Blood = Whichever party breaks it must die

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[TR]
[TD="align: center"]S |[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]--------Tables of Stone---------[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]| S[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]T |[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]{Letters Written in Stone}[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]| T[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]O |[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Law Of God = The Commandments[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]| O[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]N |[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]{Given Through Moses}[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]| N[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]E |[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]--------Tables of Stone---------[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]| E[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

-----

Israel Breaks The 1st Covenant
Transgression (golden calf)
Israel must die.

[All mankind sins = breaks God's commandments]
[All mankind deserves to die also.]

-----

Law of God (The Sacrifices) is ADDED

(because of "transgression" = "breaking the covenant")
Ministration of death (of animals) by Levite Priests
**Repentant person SEES the priest's work to cleanse his/her sins**

Can't really cleanse sins with animal's blood
Can't set a person "right" with God (i.e. make them "righteous")
Can't be justified by the work of this law.
This law is Insufficient; just a Placeholder to "prophesy of Christ"

Until the Promised Seed (Christ) would come to fulfill this law,
performing this law year after year only points to Christ ("tutors as a schoolmaster")

------

Once "ceremonially" clean, the person was expected to obey God's commands;
To not sin and fall under the law's judgment again
If they did, something would have to die once again

But the law of God was still on the outside in tablet/letter form
The Law wasn't in their hearts to want to do, so they would fail
Thus the law of sin and death

------

Christ Comes
Full of Grace (i.e. God's divine strength)
Full of truth (about God's law)

Christ obey's God's commandments all of his life
Christ dies
Christ resurrects
Christ ascends to heaven with his blood

------

The NEW Covenant
Made in Christ's Blood
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[TR]
[TD="align: center"]H |[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]--------Fleshy Tablets of the Heart---------[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]| H[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]E |[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]{Written by The Holy Spirit, based on love}[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]| E[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]A |[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Law Of God = The Commandments[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]| A[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]R |[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]{Given Through Moses, now on inside}[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]| R[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]T |[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]--------Fleshy Tablets of the Heart---------[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]| T[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

-----

Law of God (The Sacrifices) is TAKEN AWAY

Ministration of Spirit fulfilled by Melchizedek Priest (Christ)
**Repentant person CAN NOT SEE Christ's work to cleanse his/her sins**
**Because he's in heaven and not in a temple we can see**
**So THIS IS THE WORK of CHRIST THE REPENTANT PERSON MUST HAVE FAITH IN**
**Therefore to continue to work THIS law (The sacrifices) is to reject Christ's work**
**And place oneself back under it's judgment**

Christ cleans sinful heart with his blood
Christ sets a person "right" with God (i.e. make them "righteous")
Christ justifies the believer
Christ allows access to God's throne for mercy
Christ dispenses his grace (i.e. God's divine strength) to believer
Christ begins writing God's law (i.e. commandments) on believer's heart

------

Once actually clean, the person must obey God's commands;
To not sin and fall under the law's judgment again
But if they do, they have an advocate to whom they can confess their sin
**And be forgiven & cleansed once again**

The law of God is now being written on the inside in Spirit form
The Law now on their hearts to want to do
With the divine strength (i.e. grace) from Christ to do it
Thus the law of Spirit and life

----

This is the patience of the saints...

Keep the Commandments of God

Have faith in Christ

DustyRhodes · Apr 24, 2017

Love Fulfills the Law
[SUP]8 [/SUP]Let no debt remain outstanding, except the continuing debt to love one another, for whoever loves others has fulfilled the law. [SUP]9 [/SUP]The commandments, “You shall not commit adultery,” “You shall not murder,” “You shall not steal,” “You shall not covet,”[SUP][[/SUP][SUP]a[/SUP][SUP]][/SUP] and whatever other command there may be, are summed up in this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.”[SUP][[/SUP][SUP]b[/SUP][SUP]][/SUP] [SUP]10 [/SUP]Love does no harm to a neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.
Romans 13

Christ of no value
5 It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Stand firm, then, and do not let yourselves be burdened again by a yoke of slavery.
[SUP]2 [/SUP]Mark my words! I, Paul, tell you that if you let yourselves be circumcised, Christ will be of no value to you at all. [SUP]3 [/SUP]Again I declare to every man who lets himself be circumcised that he is obligated to obey the whole law. [SUP]4 [/SUP]You who are trying to be justified by the law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace

seed_time_harvest · Apr 24, 2017

christig said:

All the law and the prophets hang on one word,love.In order to relate to GOD,we have to be perfect as our father In heaven Is perfect.The only way to be In right standing before GOD without CHRIST would be keep GOD's perfect standard of righteousness (the law)perfectly,and since all come short of the glory of GOD, the only way Is faith In GOD's WORD.

So then since no man could keep the law, how would the law have been kept?

GOD provided grace.

What Im saying Is JESUS Is the only way,the truth and the life.

GOD will only accept perfection.JESUS,the vine,we are the branches receiving nourishment from the vine displaying the spiritual fruit,we establish the law.

christig · Apr 24, 2017

Desertsrose said:

How can you say you've been "set free... from our inability to obey the commands of God" if you are obviously still disobeying the law (for you think the law is abolished)? To be set free from sin,

You have been set free from sin and have become slaves to righteousness. (Romans 6:18 [NIV])

Means to be set free from your sinful nature that causes you to disobey the law,

In Him you were also circumcised in the putting off of your sinful nature… (Colossians 2:11 [BSB])

Which only happens by the baptism of the holy spirit,

In Him you were also circumcised… with the circumcision performed by Christ and not by human hands. (Colossians 2:11 [BSB])

Which then causes you to walk perfectly before God, and obey the Law which you yourself were not able to,

And I will put my Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes and be careful to obey my rules. (Ezekiel 36:27 [ESV])

We know that every one being engendered of God does not sin; but the one engendered of God keeps himself, and the wicked one does not touch him. (I John 5:18 [ABP])

for everyone born of God overcomes the world. This is the victory that has overcome the world, even our faith. (1 John 5:4 [NIV])

Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. (1 John 3:9 [KJV])

No one who abides in Him sins; no one who sins has seen Him or knows Him. (1 John 3:6 [NASB])

But rest assured, you are very far from the baptism of the holy spirit, if you think the very law that reveals all this is sin is abolished. You will never receive the holy spirit if you actually think that.

I have a study on this here Repentance and Sin No More, Perfection and Born of the Spirit | Wisdom of God .

seed_time_harvest · Apr 25, 2017

Grandpa said:

The Law of Moses is not abolished. Its just not for Christians. Its for people who haven't come to faith in Christ.(Galatians 3:24-26)

For those who have come to faith in Christ it is abolished. We get something better. The Holy Spirit.

Abiding in Christ, by faith, produces the fruit that the Law Commands. That is how Christians do not nullify the law but uphold it. (Romans 10:3-6)

Well said.

seed_time_harvest · Apr 25, 2017

Tommy379 said:

for we are GOD's workmanship created In CHRIST unto good works that was before ordained that we should walk In them.

Rondonmon · Apr 25, 2017

christig said:

All was fulfilled on the Cross. It was like a saying we have to today....Pick one of many. Jesus wasn't saying the Law will not pass away when he dies, unless the Heavens or earth passes away. That would make no sense.

He says my words ARE TRUE, before my words fail, Heaven and earth will pass away. Not one part of the Law will pass away until all is fulfilled. On the Cross, Jesus said, IT IS FINISHED !! There is now NO LAW, we are under Grace.

All is fulfilled in Christ Jesus. Read Galatians chapter 3 and you will quit thinking in this manner.

FreeNChrist · Apr 25, 2017

"He has abolished the Law with its commandments and ordinances, that He might create in Himself one new humanity in place of the two, thus making peace" Ephesians 2:15

Yahshua · Apr 25, 2017

Ephesians 2:10-16

Good works are ordained by God (i.e. called "Ordinances")

10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

In times past, one was "in the flesh" (i.e. without Christ; without hope, without God)

11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;

12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:

But in Christ both Gentile and Israel are brought together

13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.

14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;

Having abolished in his flesh THE HOSTILITY [TOWARDS]...having slain THE OPPOSITION [TO] the law of commandments in ordinances.

15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;

16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:

---

The flesh is at war with God and refuses to submit to God's law (Romans 8:7)

But Christ abolished that enmity in his flesh

Creating a new man at peace with God

For we are God's work created in Christ to do the good works God ordains

christig · Apr 25, 2017

FreeNChrist said:

He didn't "abolish" the Law, he "nullified" the Law, go check the Strong's if you don't believe me. How did he nullify the Law? By making it of no effect, for works of Law do not grant deliverance, but sanctification of the holy spirit through belief in Jesus Christ does, of which you are then delivered of the bondage of sin that the Law was not able to. And so, by becoming circumcised of the heart, which is done at the baptism of the holy spirit, which is to be rid of your sinful nature, you are then caused, by the spirit, to walk perfectly in accordance to the Law. This of course, is only possibly if you have actually received the holy spirit. Only 144,000 people will be sealed with the holy spirit.

I have these studies, along with scriptures,
The True Identity of the 144,000 of the Book of Revelation | Wisdom of God
Repentance and Sin No More, Perfection and Born of the Spirit | Wisdom of God

seed_time_harvest · Apr 25, 2017

Tommy379 said:

If we are GOD's workmanship created In CHRIST unto good works that was preordained that we should walk In them,don't you think that that means we will be equipped by GOD and since man could not keep the law we should give GOD all the credit and just display the spiritual fruit naturally and not be thinking that GOD did the work and I helped?

Grace Is Grace and not work.

FreeNChrist · Apr 25, 2017

christig said:

He didn't "abolish" the Law, he "nullified" the Law, go check the Strong's if you don't believe me. How did he nullify the Law? By making it of no effect, for works of Law do not grant deliverance, but sanctification of the holy spirit through belief in Jesus Christ does, of which you are then delivered of the bondage of sin that the Law was not able to. And so, by becoming circumcised of the heart, which is done at the baptism of the holy spirit, which is to be rid of your sinful nature, you are then caused, by the spirit, to walk perfectly in accordance to the Law. This of course, is only possibly if you have actually received the holy spirit. Only 144,000 people will be sealed with the holy spirit.

I have these studies, along with scriptures,
The True Identity of the 144,000 of the Book of Revelation | Wisdom of God
Repentance and Sin No More, Perfection and Born of the Spirit | Wisdom of God

Well, that's just all wrong.

christig · Apr 25, 2017

FreeNChrist said:

I wouldn't expect someone who thinks that the law is abolished to have any understanding in other matters related to perfection, circumcision of the heart, freedom from sin, and baptism of the holy spirit.

gb9 · Apr 25, 2017

christig said:

I could be wrong, but normally when the ( symbolic ) 144,000 gets brought up, it is usually the watchtower

if ya'll don't know what the watchtower is, i'll give you a hint- j.w.

christig · Apr 25, 2017

gb9 said:

Not particularly. I am not a JW, I am a messianic Jew. Although they are in error in various matters, they are correct about the 144,000.

The Law of Moses Has Not Been Abolished

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