The Law of Moses Has Not Been Abolished
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This isn't so, how many times must I explain to you people that SHADOW law is not observed literally? Do you not understand that SHADOW law FORESHADOWS realities, and it is in fulfilling those realities that the shadow law is fulfilled? This is why Paul states, that it is of no avail to observe festivals, sabbaths, circumcisions, new moons, etc.... because these are all shadow commands. Whereas all other commands, that are not shadows, MUST still be obeyed. You guys completely disregard the entire law because of the shadow laws, and that is an error! I have a study on this here, Why the Law Is Not Abolished, Yet Circumcision, Festivals, Sacrifices, Sabbaths, Foods Are No Longer Observed | Wisdom of God
2 Corinthians 3
You are either still under the condemnation of the Law or you have been set free from that condemnation by faith in the Lord Jesus Christ.
Being set free from the condemnation of the Law doesn't mean we are perfect like our Father in Heaven is Perfect. Which is what you are claiming. We have this sincere desire as Christians. But it has not happened yet. We can't live perfectly, according to the Law, by our own understanding or our own power. The only time we come close is when we aren't aware of it and are being influenced by the Holy Spirit.
Galatians 5:3-5
[FONT="]3 For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.[/FONT]
[FONT="]4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.[/FONT]
[FONT="]5 For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.
Galatians 5:3 is re-iterating that if you are trying to be righteous according to what the Law says then you are a debtor to do the whole thing, and be Perfect like your Father in Heaven is Perfect. If you truly have a spiritual understanding of the Law then you know you aren't perfectly righteous according to your own understanding and work.
There is only one way to be perfectly righteous. And that is by the declaration and Power of the Lord Jesus Christ.
Its like being humble. If you declare you are perfect, you aren't. Maybe you were, before you said it.[/FONT]
You are either still under the condemnation of the Law or you have been set free from that condemnation by faith in the Lord Jesus Christ.
Being set free from the condemnation of the Law doesn't mean we are perfect like our Father in Heaven is Perfect. Which is what you are claiming. We have this sincere desire as Christians. But it has not happened yet. We can't live perfectly, according to the Law, by our own understanding or our own power. The only time we come close is when we aren't aware of it and are being influenced by the Holy Spirit.
Galatians 5:3-5
[FONT="]3 For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.[/FONT]
[FONT="]4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.[/FONT]
[FONT="]5 For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.
Galatians 5:3 is re-iterating that if you are trying to be righteous according to what the Law says then you are a debtor to do the whole thing, and be Perfect like your Father in Heaven is Perfect. If you truly have a spiritual understanding of the Law then you know you aren't perfectly righteous according to your own understanding and work.
There is only one way to be perfectly righteous. And that is by the declaration and Power of the Lord Jesus Christ.
Its like being humble. If you declare you are perfect, you aren't. Maybe you were, before you said it.[/FONT]
That isn't so, because becoming perfect is the work of the holy spirit, and you thus fulfill,
"whoever is born of God cannot sin, it is impossible" and "whoever is in him does not sin" and "you have been set free from sin" and "have perfected in perpetuity those who are sanctified". Perfection is only attained by baptism of the holy spirit, for you yourself cannot make yourself before, not even if you wanted to and try as hard as you can, because you still have the sinful nature within you that the baptism of the holy spirit removes, hence "circumcision of the heart". I have a study on this here Repentance and Sin No More, Perfection and Born of the Spirit | Wisdom of God .
"whoever is born of God cannot sin, it is impossible" and "whoever is in him does not sin" and "you have been set free from sin" and "have perfected in perpetuity those who are sanctified". Perfection is only attained by baptism of the holy spirit, for you yourself cannot make yourself before, not even if you wanted to and try as hard as you can, because you still have the sinful nature within you that the baptism of the holy spirit removes, hence "circumcision of the heart". I have a study on this here Repentance and Sin No More, Perfection and Born of the Spirit | Wisdom of God .
There are spiritual and moral principles within the Mosaic Covenant that are enduring but most of what you mentioned above aren't even enduring spiritual and moral principles.
Regarding divorce and remarriage, the Mosaic Covenant was much more lax than Christ's commandments on the Sermon on the Mount. Moses gave the law of divorcement because of the carnal nature of the Israelites. The Mosaic Covenant allowed men to divorce their wives for conditions other than sexual immorality or abandonment. Deuteronomy 24 outlines this, and it's evident that the Mosaic Covenant allowed remarriage of the woman, which is not the same view as Jesus later espoused. Therefore the Mosaic Law was not the perfect statement of God's will; it was a dim flicker of God's holiness compared to Jesus, who is the fuller revelation of God's holiness.
Regarding divorce and remarriage, the Mosaic Covenant was much more lax than Christ's commandments on the Sermon on the Mount. Moses gave the law of divorcement because of the carnal nature of the Israelites. The Mosaic Covenant allowed men to divorce their wives for conditions other than sexual immorality or abandonment. Deuteronomy 24 outlines this, and it's evident that the Mosaic Covenant allowed remarriage of the woman, which is not the same view as Jesus later espoused. Therefore the Mosaic Law was not the perfect statement of God's will; it was a dim flicker of God's holiness compared to Jesus, who is the fuller revelation of God's holiness.
Galatians 3:23-26
[FONT="]23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.[/FONT]
[FONT="]24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.[/FONT]
[FONT="]25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.[/FONT]
[FONT="]26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
All of that, that you list, is a carnal of understanding of what you think the Law says. You think that the literal following of that is what helps your righteousness.
We are set free from the condemnation of the law. Its because we are not following our carnal understanding of what we think it says. We rely on Christ 100% for any and all Righteousness that we receive as His Gift.[/FONT]
[FONT="]23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.[/FONT]
[FONT="]24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.[/FONT]
[FONT="]25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.[/FONT]
[FONT="]26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
All of that, that you list, is a carnal of understanding of what you think the Law says. You think that the literal following of that is what helps your righteousness.
We are set free from the condemnation of the law. Its because we are not following our carnal understanding of what we think it says. We rely on Christ 100% for any and all Righteousness that we receive as His Gift.[/FONT]
What gets me about the lawyers is how they expect us to believe that the ministration of death has somehow turned into the ministration of life in Christ:
2 Co 3:7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:
And that while being married to Christ they are also married to Moses:
Rom 7:4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.
And that the Law of Moses is the Law of Christ:
Gal 6:2 Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ.
2 Co 3:7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:
And that while being married to Christ they are also married to Moses:
Rom 7:4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.
And that the Law of Moses is the Law of Christ:
Gal 6:2 Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ.
The Law is not the perfect statement of God's will? Are you not aware that the scriptures themselves declare in a Psalm,
"Your law is perfect...."
Perhaps you should reconsider your own words, before you call the Law of God "not perfect", and then toss out commands founds therein, and calling them "aren't even during spiritual and moral principles". Somehow contraception, which goes against the intention of God for a man and his wife to procreate is not a moral principle? Common now.
"Your law is perfect...."
Perhaps you should reconsider your own words, before you call the Law of God "not perfect", and then toss out commands founds therein, and calling them "aren't even during spiritual and moral principles". Somehow contraception, which goes against the intention of God for a man and his wife to procreate is not a moral principle? Common now.
Hi Chris, The thing is that we all do get it. Is the Law contrary to the promises of God? May it never be. But the law is not able to impart life. If it did, righteousness would be based on the law. But it's not.
So we are not under the law, but under grace. We have the fulfillment of the promise given to Abraham by faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe.
Before Jesus came to fulfill the law, the law was our tutor.......the law introduced us to Jesus Christ so that we're justified by faith and not by the law.
And now that we're saved, we obey the law through Christ and through the power of the Holy Spirit. We are now empowered through the new life in Christ to carry out the righteous requirements of the law through the Holy Spirit.
We've been taken out of the care of the Law, because the law can only show us our sin. We are now placed under the care of grace through faith in Jesus our Lord and Savior. And because we're under grace, we can now produce the fruits of righteousness through obedience.
So we are not under the law, but under grace. We have the fulfillment of the promise given to Abraham by faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe.
Before Jesus came to fulfill the law, the law was our tutor.......the law introduced us to Jesus Christ so that we're justified by faith and not by the law.
And now that we're saved, we obey the law through Christ and through the power of the Holy Spirit. We are now empowered through the new life in Christ to carry out the righteous requirements of the law through the Holy Spirit.
We've been taken out of the care of the Law, because the law can only show us our sin. We are now placed under the care of grace through faith in Jesus our Lord and Savior. And because we're under grace, we can now produce the fruits of righteousness through obedience.
I will admit I didn't read all your thread so that is why I assumed you were a typical "lawkeeper". My apologies for that, although I still disagree with your view that irrelevant commandments within Torah still apply.
So, regarding your website, are you an Arian? Do you claim Jesus was a created being?
Here's what it says:
"And also why he is called “only son”, because Jesus Christ was the only being directly created by the Father, as opposed to all other beings who were indirectly created by God through the speech of Jesus Christ"
If so, I'll say goodbye to you now, because you likely won't be around too much longer. Those who espouse views other than the Trinity and are teaching them here are usually gone in short order.
Regarding your use of I John 5:7-8, are you aware that modern translations acknowledge your point, and do not use the Textus Receptus as their basis? It was added based on the Latin Vulgate, and the only evidence was a 14th century Greek manuscript. So, it's not relevant to bring that up, as it is only a KJV/Textus Receptus issue. Your argument only is applicable to KJV only people.
I am assuming this is your site:
The Deception of the Teaching of the Trinity | Wisdom of God
So, regarding your website, are you an Arian? Do you claim Jesus was a created being?
Here's what it says:
"And also why he is called “only son”, because Jesus Christ was the only being directly created by the Father, as opposed to all other beings who were indirectly created by God through the speech of Jesus Christ"
If so, I'll say goodbye to you now, because you likely won't be around too much longer. Those who espouse views other than the Trinity and are teaching them here are usually gone in short order.
Regarding your use of I John 5:7-8, are you aware that modern translations acknowledge your point, and do not use the Textus Receptus as their basis? It was added based on the Latin Vulgate, and the only evidence was a 14th century Greek manuscript. So, it's not relevant to bring that up, as it is only a KJV/Textus Receptus issue. Your argument only is applicable to KJV only people.
I am assuming this is your site:
The Deception of the Teaching of the Trinity | Wisdom of God
The 10 commandments were called the ministry of condemnation and of death by Paul. We can trust the life of Christ in us to live godly in this world.
The grace of God "teaches" now in the New Covenant how to deny ungodliness and to live sensibly, righteous and godly in this present age - NOT the law of Moses. Titus 2:11-12
The 10 commandments are called the "letter that kills" and the "ministry of death" - The New Covenant is called the "ministry of the Spirit" that brings Life.
The 10 commandments were called "the ministry of condemnation" - the New Covenant is called "the ministry of righteousness." This is Christ's righteousness given to us that believe.
2 Corinthians 3:6-9 (NASB)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] who also made us adequate as servants of a new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.
[SUP]7 [/SUP] But if the ministry of death, in letters engraved on stones, came with glory, so that the sons of Israel could not look intently at the face of Moses because of the glory of his face, fading as it was,
[SUP]8 [/SUP] how will the ministry of the Spirit fail to be even more with glory?
[SUP]9 [/SUP] For if the ministry of condemnation has glory, much more does the ministry of righteousness abound in glory.
The law of Moses including the 10 commandments are like an x-ray machine - they show up things that are wrong but the x-ray machine has no power to "fix it".
It just reveals what is wrong. It's the same here for Christ Himself and His life in our new hearts is the only thing that can "fix us" with a transformed live.
The grace of God "teaches" now in the New Covenant how to deny ungodliness and to live sensibly, righteous and godly in this present age - NOT the law of Moses. Titus 2:11-12
The 10 commandments are called the "letter that kills" and the "ministry of death" - The New Covenant is called the "ministry of the Spirit" that brings Life.
The 10 commandments were called "the ministry of condemnation" - the New Covenant is called "the ministry of righteousness." This is Christ's righteousness given to us that believe.
2 Corinthians 3:6-9 (NASB)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] who also made us adequate as servants of a new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.
[SUP]7 [/SUP] But if the ministry of death, in letters engraved on stones, came with glory, so that the sons of Israel could not look intently at the face of Moses because of the glory of his face, fading as it was,
[SUP]8 [/SUP] how will the ministry of the Spirit fail to be even more with glory?
[SUP]9 [/SUP] For if the ministry of condemnation has glory, much more does the ministry of righteousness abound in glory.
The law of Moses including the 10 commandments are like an x-ray machine - they show up things that are wrong but the x-ray machine has no power to "fix it".
It just reveals what is wrong. It's the same here for Christ Himself and His life in our new hearts is the only thing that can "fix us" with a transformed live.
The word "Torah" or "Law" refers to more than just the Mosaic Covenant. And, the Mosaic Covenant made accomodations to the carnality of the Israelites. I gave one example regarding divorce and remarriage. Torah allowed the woman to remarry in Deuteronomy 24, but the Sermon on the Mount did not allow remarriage except under specific conditions due to "the hardness of your heart".
Additionally, I would distinguish between God's Law and the Mosaic Covenant. Both use the word "Torah" but in some instances, Torah only refers to the Mosaic Covenant. In other instances, it's referring to the entire word of God, and all of God's revelation of himself in writing. At any rate, "perfect" doesn't mean continually applicable. You yourself are acknowledging that there are completed elements that were shadows and types. "Perfect" does not mean complete, either..for instance, drunkenness or drug addiction is not mentioned in Torah...there is a commandment regarding priests becoming drunk, but not the normal Israelite.
Additionally, I would distinguish between God's Law and the Mosaic Covenant. Both use the word "Torah" but in some instances, Torah only refers to the Mosaic Covenant. In other instances, it's referring to the entire word of God, and all of God's revelation of himself in writing. At any rate, "perfect" doesn't mean continually applicable. You yourself are acknowledging that there are completed elements that were shadows and types. "Perfect" does not mean complete, either..for instance, drunkenness or drug addiction is not mentioned in Torah...there is a commandment regarding priests becoming drunk, but not the normal Israelite.
The Torah actually revealed the intention of God for marriage to be for life, hence why the Torah itself declares, and "the two shall become one flesh", which is why Jesus Christ said, in "the beginning it was not so", and the beginning was declared in the Torah. Yet in contrast to the OLD covenant, of which the Torah came THROUGH, the new NEW covenant, which came THROUGH the OLD, goes back to the original intention declared in the Torah, that remarriage is forbidden. The Law is indeed perfect and complete, but the Law itself does not deliver, for it points to the one who does, and it is Jesus Christ. So at some point, after having understanding of the Torah, you must come to the belief of Jesus Christ, and subsequently receive the baptism of the holy spirit, or all you have are just words of the Torah, for even Jesus Christ said, "you search the scriptures thinking that in them you have aeonial life, but they speak of me".