The Lord's Recovery aka The Local Church
- Thread starter Loveneverfails
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A
people get sucked in to any group where theres a great social life, they havnt got,
and where theres housing because they lack the discipline to manage on their own.
makes for a fine base for a cult type ministry. I started out as a new believer with
Watchman Knee(1973). Went from there into a worst charismatic cult. Mainly with those features.
many wont leave because of the personal/social ties, just like a junkie.
and where theres housing because they lack the discipline to manage on their own.
makes for a fine base for a cult type ministry. I started out as a new believer with
Watchman Knee(1973). Went from there into a worst charismatic cult. Mainly with those features.
many wont leave because of the personal/social ties, just like a junkie.
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While I agree to this to an uncertain extent, the clergy-laity system did present some problems or problems emerged out of it:
1: Two class system
2. ALL believers can prophesy: meaning all can bring scripture and give testimony of how it is applied, or has been applied, through our experiences for the edification of the body). The Church in General lost this concept do to the clergy-laity hierarchical system. The laity become pew sitters instead of active participants.
I think having 1 man in charge of a local church or as head pastor would be hard to prove as the proper order of Church government biblically. This one area of a few is where I think Witness Lee and the Local Church got it right, unfortunately WL didn't follow his own teaching, since he was the head of all of his church bodies and members.
1 Cor. 14:31 [SUP]31 [/SUP]For you can all prophesy one by one, that all may learn and all may be encouraged.
1: Two class system
2. ALL believers can prophesy: meaning all can bring scripture and give testimony of how it is applied, or has been applied, through our experiences for the edification of the body). The Church in General lost this concept do to the clergy-laity hierarchical system. The laity become pew sitters instead of active participants.
I think having 1 man in charge of a local church or as head pastor would be hard to prove as the proper order of Church government biblically. This one area of a few is where I think Witness Lee and the Local Church got it right, unfortunately WL didn't follow his own teaching, since he was the head of all of his church bodies and members.
1 Cor. 14:31 [SUP]31 [/SUP]For you can all prophesy one by one, that all may learn and all may be encouraged.
Thanks, Zone.
I suppose if you look at just what I've written, it does seem like I'm drawing things out indefinitely. However I actually gave myself a fixed amount of time to collect information. When I created this thread 3 weeks ago was the beginning of that time, and today is literally the last day because I'm meeting with my pastor tomorrow to go over my questions, concerns, and hopefully get another perspective. All the while I've been praying for clarity and discernment, but after meeting with my pastor I'll pray some more and hopefully be able to make up my mind ASAP. I've greatly appreciated all of the insight shared on this thread by everyone, but as someone posted here earlier, I will bring all this to God and let Him have the final say in my heart.
If anything, I am thankful for this experience because it's pushed me really deep into God's Word. Not that I don't normally read my Bible, but this has been an intense time of study for me and it's forced me to really examine why I believe what I believe.
I suppose if you look at just what I've written, it does seem like I'm drawing things out indefinitely. However I actually gave myself a fixed amount of time to collect information. When I created this thread 3 weeks ago was the beginning of that time, and today is literally the last day because I'm meeting with my pastor tomorrow to go over my questions, concerns, and hopefully get another perspective. All the while I've been praying for clarity and discernment, but after meeting with my pastor I'll pray some more and hopefully be able to make up my mind ASAP. I've greatly appreciated all of the insight shared on this thread by everyone, but as someone posted here earlier, I will bring all this to God and let Him have the final say in my heart.
If anything, I am thankful for this experience because it's pushed me really deep into God's Word. Not that I don't normally read my Bible, but this has been an intense time of study for me and it's forced me to really examine why I believe what I believe.
B
For the record, Witness Lee had a Methodist buddy by the name of Watchman Nee.
Watchman Nee was imprisoned by a communist government due to his faith and for being part of the underground church. He was sentence to 15 yrs, but actually stayed in prison for about 20 year until his death in 1972.
Also, for the record, Watchman Nee never set foot outside his home country of China.
Dear ones,
May our deepest desires include, not only to be found approved by God on that Day, but also to value and learn from the experiences of the saints gone before us. Just the fact that any Christian is wiling to serve God and Jesus Christ by preaching to fellow prisoners and guards is already beyond measure of what all of us have done combined.
Let's remember that our Lord Jesus Christ said that John, the Baptist, was the greatest man born to a woman, yet the least in the Kingdom of God is John, the Baptist. Interesting enough to me is that Jesus of Nazareth was also born to a woman, yet He did not estimate Himself to be greater than John, His cousin. Is that the sweetest, or is it most wonderful? ...just sayin'
BPie
Watchman Nee was imprisoned by a communist government due to his faith and for being part of the underground church. He was sentence to 15 yrs, but actually stayed in prison for about 20 year until his death in 1972.
Also, for the record, Watchman Nee never set foot outside his home country of China.
Dear ones,
May our deepest desires include, not only to be found approved by God on that Day, but also to value and learn from the experiences of the saints gone before us. Just the fact that any Christian is wiling to serve God and Jesus Christ by preaching to fellow prisoners and guards is already beyond measure of what all of us have done combined.
Let's remember that our Lord Jesus Christ said that John, the Baptist, was the greatest man born to a woman, yet the least in the Kingdom of God is John, the Baptist. Interesting enough to me is that Jesus of Nazareth was also born to a woman, yet He did not estimate Himself to be greater than John, His cousin. Is that the sweetest, or is it most wonderful? ...just sayin'
BPie
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B
Yes, some doctrinal stuff can get creepy before one understands is out-flat heresy. But I don't believe heresy is involved in this case.
From my experience with the Local Church, the "economy of God" was more of rhetoric of Witness' view of the function of the Holy Spirit of God in the congregation.
My personal view on the subject is simple: call the duck, "duck." I don't have a problem calling upon the Holy Spirit for help, guidance, mental capacity, etc. Consequently, Christians should be very much at peace acknowledging the presence of the Holy Spirit in fellow saints. (I know BananaPie is).
Frankly, by the grace of God, on occasions BananaPie has been honored to bow down below her knees in the presence of another believer speaking with the power of God in the Spirit of Truth. The Local Church lacks such understanding. To Witness Lee the "economy of God" is about "divine multiplication" or "divine dispensing among you." It's rhetoric.
I believe that they believe that the "economy of God" is God's current business deal with those who are saved, and by default, those outside the deal don't get to participate in the "economy of God." That's how I remember Witness' sermon. He'd go in circles at times. Other times, he was right on target explaining wonderful things in Scripture.
As for the "eating of Christ," The Local Church believes the same as the Catholic church regarding the Eucharist, minus the Catholic priest. LOL.
As a Reformed Baptist, I have never believed that the elements of the Eucharist are consumed as one would "eat" a carrot and "drink" milk. I believe "the wine" (or Welch's Concord Grape juice, for that matter LOL) remains wine, and "the bread" (or Matzah cracker) is still a cracker when I consume both during the remembrance of the Lord (or the Lord's table).
The Local Church teaches that the elements of the Eucharist, literally, turn into the flesh and blood of Jesus when consumed "in remembrance of Me (Jesus)." I don't believe that to be true because God is Spirit; the Lord Jesus has ascended into Heaven, and now sits at the right hand of God. Nothing upon Earth processed by a machine can "turn into" anything existing in the heavenly places. Hence, that's where my spirit could no longer partake with the Local Church.
"Behold how good and pleasant it is for brethren to dwell together in unity." Psalm 133
BPie
From my experience with the Local Church, the "economy of God" was more of rhetoric of Witness' view of the function of the Holy Spirit of God in the congregation.
My personal view on the subject is simple: call the duck, "duck." I don't have a problem calling upon the Holy Spirit for help, guidance, mental capacity, etc. Consequently, Christians should be very much at peace acknowledging the presence of the Holy Spirit in fellow saints. (I know BananaPie is).
Frankly, by the grace of God, on occasions BananaPie has been honored to bow down below her knees in the presence of another believer speaking with the power of God in the Spirit of Truth. The Local Church lacks such understanding. To Witness Lee the "economy of God" is about "divine multiplication" or "divine dispensing among you." It's rhetoric.
I believe that they believe that the "economy of God" is God's current business deal with those who are saved, and by default, those outside the deal don't get to participate in the "economy of God." That's how I remember Witness' sermon. He'd go in circles at times. Other times, he was right on target explaining wonderful things in Scripture.
As for the "eating of Christ," The Local Church believes the same as the Catholic church regarding the Eucharist, minus the Catholic priest. LOL.
As a Reformed Baptist, I have never believed that the elements of the Eucharist are consumed as one would "eat" a carrot and "drink" milk. I believe "the wine" (or Welch's Concord Grape juice, for that matter LOL) remains wine, and "the bread" (or Matzah cracker) is still a cracker when I consume both during the remembrance of the Lord (or the Lord's table).
The Local Church teaches that the elements of the Eucharist, literally, turn into the flesh and blood of Jesus when consumed "in remembrance of Me (Jesus)." I don't believe that to be true because God is Spirit; the Lord Jesus has ascended into Heaven, and now sits at the right hand of God. Nothing upon Earth processed by a machine can "turn into" anything existing in the heavenly places. Hence, that's where my spirit could no longer partake with the Local Church.
"Behold how good and pleasant it is for brethren to dwell together in unity." Psalm 133
BPie
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I never knew the Local Church viewed the Eucharist as the Catholics do. I always thought to "eat of Christ" was figurative for immersing yourself in all that the Lord is through bible study, meditation, praise n worship, and prayer as our enjoyment and complete satisfaction as our life's sustenance.
I never found a church that is gospel all the way! I love my church and I have one small glass of wine every night before I go to bed. My church says that by doing that, I can not be an official member. Part of joining is taking a vow not to drink any alcohol, and they also say that even Christ had some wine so it is OK. Go figure!
At the same time, I find it incomprehensible that almost all churches say that if you decide to add a day to day routine as part of worship, especially if it had been suggested by God in His training of the Hebrews, it makes you a heathen. And they back this up with scripture. Christ said you can even pray and fast in the wrong way, but Christ never said not to pray and fast. Paul said not to make these things the mark of your faith and for judgment, but he never said don't ever make everyday things part of worship. Paul said you should be strong enough in your love and faith it can be without including any routine in it, and we should keep that in mind. But if we do use it, Paul never said that was wrong. I use a routine of washing hands as I get up in the morning as part of my prayer for forgiveness and cleanliness to start my day. If I went to a church where this was taught as a good practice the entire main line church would be up in arms.
So I look for a church that knows that God sent Christ as our savior. Then to see if they truly love Him. I give up on finding the perfect church.
At the same time, I find it incomprehensible that almost all churches say that if you decide to add a day to day routine as part of worship, especially if it had been suggested by God in His training of the Hebrews, it makes you a heathen. And they back this up with scripture. Christ said you can even pray and fast in the wrong way, but Christ never said not to pray and fast. Paul said not to make these things the mark of your faith and for judgment, but he never said don't ever make everyday things part of worship. Paul said you should be strong enough in your love and faith it can be without including any routine in it, and we should keep that in mind. But if we do use it, Paul never said that was wrong. I use a routine of washing hands as I get up in the morning as part of my prayer for forgiveness and cleanliness to start my day. If I went to a church where this was taught as a good practice the entire main line church would be up in arms.
So I look for a church that knows that God sent Christ as our savior. Then to see if they truly love Him. I give up on finding the perfect church.
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I should have posted this a while ago, but I just wanted to thank everyone for your contributions to this discussion. For those who followed my posts, you may have gathered that my intent for looking deeper into the teachings of The Local Church (TLC) came from the fact that my boyfriend attends this church, and my hearts desire was to determine if I could imagine attending this church should we possibly marry.
God, in His usual perfection, granted me the peace, guidance, and discernment that I needed.. at exactly the right time and in exactly the right way.
After meeting with my pastor, and finally with elders from TLC, I put down the research and just went to God in prayer.
The end result is that after seeking godly counsel, reading His Word, doing unbiased research, having fellowship with members of that church, as well as praying fervently, God made it abundantly clear to me that this church (at least the small one here in my hometown - I cannot speak for every single location) is a family of genuine born-again believers who love the Lord with all their hearts. Not a single member of the church (including my boyfriend's parents who attend localities back in Taiwan) got defensive at my questions. They welcomed my approach as Berean, and told me to never abandon that attitude.
In the end, all of my doubts and concerns were put into context and laid to rest. The minor differences that remained were in fact so superficial that they had no negative impact whatsoever on my faith or my willingness to attend that church should I marry my boyfriend. On all of the core elements of the Christian faith, and I can confidently say that I stand in full fellowship and agreement with these brothers and sisters.
I hope that if anyone else should stumble across this thread in the future, my discoveries and perspective will be helpful. It would be hypocritical of me to ask that anyone simply accept my findings as fact, so I ask that if anyone reading this is coming from a similar situation.. please turn to the Lord and ask Him for discernment. Pray, read His word, seek His will, and trust that He will not fail you.
God, in His usual perfection, granted me the peace, guidance, and discernment that I needed.. at exactly the right time and in exactly the right way.
After meeting with my pastor, and finally with elders from TLC, I put down the research and just went to God in prayer.
The end result is that after seeking godly counsel, reading His Word, doing unbiased research, having fellowship with members of that church, as well as praying fervently, God made it abundantly clear to me that this church (at least the small one here in my hometown - I cannot speak for every single location) is a family of genuine born-again believers who love the Lord with all their hearts. Not a single member of the church (including my boyfriend's parents who attend localities back in Taiwan) got defensive at my questions. They welcomed my approach as Berean, and told me to never abandon that attitude.
In the end, all of my doubts and concerns were put into context and laid to rest. The minor differences that remained were in fact so superficial that they had no negative impact whatsoever on my faith or my willingness to attend that church should I marry my boyfriend. On all of the core elements of the Christian faith, and I can confidently say that I stand in full fellowship and agreement with these brothers and sisters.
I hope that if anyone else should stumble across this thread in the future, my discoveries and perspective will be helpful. It would be hypocritical of me to ask that anyone simply accept my findings as fact, so I ask that if anyone reading this is coming from a similar situation.. please turn to the Lord and ask Him for discernment. Pray, read His word, seek His will, and trust that He will not fail you.
I
For the record, Witness Lee had a Methodist buddy by the name of Watchman Nee.
Watchman Nee was imprisoned by a communist government due to his faith and for being part of the underground church. He was sentence to 15 yrs, but actually stayed in prison for about 20 year until his death in 1972.
Also, for the record, Watchman Nee never set foot outside his home country of China.
Dear ones,
May our deepest desires include, not only to be found approved by God on that Day, but also to value and learn from the experiences of the saints gone before us. Just the fact that any Christian is wiling to serve God and Jesus Christ by preaching to fellow prisoners and guards is already beyond measure of what all of us have done combined.
Let's remember that our Lord Jesus Christ said that John, the Baptist, was the greatest man born to a woman, yet the least in the Kingdom of God is John, the Baptist. Interesting enough to me is that Jesus of Nazareth was also born to a woman, yet He did not estimate Himself to be greater than John, His cousin. Is that the sweetest, or is it most wonderful? ...just sayin'
BPie
Watchman Nee was imprisoned by a communist government due to his faith and for being part of the underground church. He was sentence to 15 yrs, but actually stayed in prison for about 20 year until his death in 1972.
Also, for the record, Watchman Nee never set foot outside his home country of China.
Dear ones,
May our deepest desires include, not only to be found approved by God on that Day, but also to value and learn from the experiences of the saints gone before us. Just the fact that any Christian is wiling to serve God and Jesus Christ by preaching to fellow prisoners and guards is already beyond measure of what all of us have done combined.
Let's remember that our Lord Jesus Christ said that John, the Baptist, was the greatest man born to a woman, yet the least in the Kingdom of God is John, the Baptist. Interesting enough to me is that Jesus of Nazareth was also born to a woman, yet He did not estimate Himself to be greater than John, His cousin. Is that the sweetest, or is it most wonderful? ...just sayin'
BPie
C
Hello Loveneverfails,
This Thread is sometimes ago, not sure what is your decision. But maybe i can be of help to understand the history.
Let me explain some of my 15 years experience associated with the Lord's Recovery(LR), both as a serving one and normal partaker of divine life.
The Lord's Recovery is started by Witness Lee after Watchman Nee (started Local Churches in China) pass away in 1972.
Local Church and Lord's Recovery is not a Cult. Reason is most of all their practices are biblical apostle teachings on New Testament.
[Why many others came to accuse the Lord's Recovery as cult was due to the fact Witness Lee accuse denomination as degraded and mostly ignorant of his mistakes and remains protective of his son Philip, of sexual misconduct. Both Taiwan and especially Church in Anahaim US was devastated during his time.]
Taiwan, those members in 1970/80s experience their Young People, 85% left during the scandal. And then also Church in Anahaim, more than 90% left with majority of the Elders/saints. Division is everywhere is his excuse.
Witness Lee(WL) was a visionary person, who happens to pick up the ministry from Watchman Nee. I came to know WL group due to Watchman Nee book "The Normal Christian Life.
I've read all WL Life-Study Books, and he was a well gifted writer. But he has a weakness, revenge writings on those who went against him including his son-in-law.
I still do have family members who is Full-Time Workers in the Lord's Recovery. Sometimes i ask how is everything.
My reason to explain this, i left this LR due to the trust broken. I serve to build churches, not to tear down(Jezebel). I took care/served two Lord's Table groups.
My advise if you've decided to join them is don't favour any parties (blended brothers/concern brothers) or play politics. Enjoy HIM! Praise HIM! Church life is to dispense HIM.
I have high regards to their biblical truths (90%) and hymns singing, not their walk the talk. Very much divine teachings. This was the age of the Church in Laodicea. All of us was hoping for the Church of Philadelphia, it was long before exist.
Regards in Christ Name.
ChristLover
This Thread is sometimes ago, not sure what is your decision. But maybe i can be of help to understand the history.
Let me explain some of my 15 years experience associated with the Lord's Recovery(LR), both as a serving one and normal partaker of divine life.
The Lord's Recovery is started by Witness Lee after Watchman Nee (started Local Churches in China) pass away in 1972.
Local Church and Lord's Recovery is not a Cult. Reason is most of all their practices are biblical apostle teachings on New Testament.
[Why many others came to accuse the Lord's Recovery as cult was due to the fact Witness Lee accuse denomination as degraded and mostly ignorant of his mistakes and remains protective of his son Philip, of sexual misconduct. Both Taiwan and especially Church in Anahaim US was devastated during his time.]
Taiwan, those members in 1970/80s experience their Young People, 85% left during the scandal. And then also Church in Anahaim, more than 90% left with majority of the Elders/saints. Division is everywhere is his excuse.
Witness Lee(WL) was a visionary person, who happens to pick up the ministry from Watchman Nee. I came to know WL group due to Watchman Nee book "The Normal Christian Life.
I've read all WL Life-Study Books, and he was a well gifted writer. But he has a weakness, revenge writings on those who went against him including his son-in-law.
I still do have family members who is Full-Time Workers in the Lord's Recovery. Sometimes i ask how is everything.
My reason to explain this, i left this LR due to the trust broken. I serve to build churches, not to tear down(Jezebel). I took care/served two Lord's Table groups.
My advise if you've decided to join them is don't favour any parties (blended brothers/concern brothers) or play politics. Enjoy HIM! Praise HIM! Church life is to dispense HIM.
I have high regards to their biblical truths (90%) and hymns singing, not their walk the talk. Very much divine teachings. This was the age of the Church in Laodicea. All of us was hoping for the Church of Philadelphia, it was long before exist.
Regards in Christ Name.
ChristLover
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L
Your "red flags" include your impression that those meeting with the local churches follow the teachings of their "founding fathers." You did not mention what "teachings" you have a problem with, but from my experience, all of the teachings are directly from the Bible. You can hardly read a sentence without stumbling over Scripture references several times. EVERYTHING is backed up by Scripture. The teachings point you to Scripture, and suddenly you see what has been there for 2,000 years, but no one has really noticed. If you accept what the Bible says, are you following a man, or are you following the Bible? It is not the man who is not questioned; it is the Scripture that is not questioned.
As a quick example, consider "eating Christ." Jesus was born in Bethlehem, which means "house of bread," He was laid in a trough (a place for animal food), and He said, "I am the living bread that came down out of heaven" (Jn. 6:51). He also said, Eat me, and you will live because of Me" (Jn. 6:57). Have you ever seen the matter of eating Jesus? Has anyone ever preached that to you? And yet there it is in the Bible. I didn't see it until Lee pointed it out. All I can say is "Amen, HOW do I eat You, Lord?" [Note: Catholics think "the flesh profits" something with transubstantiation, contrary to the Lord's word in Jn. 6:63]
It has not been considered "absolutely necessary" for 2,000 years and yet Jesus said that we must eat Him to live because of Him. So, which should we change, our practice or the Lord's word?
Who the "founding fathers" are is a complicated issue. Watchman Nee saw that all Christians are one, and that there should be no divisions among us except where we practically happen to be. Witness Lee brought Nee's vision to the west and worked it out. However, they didn't invent something new, as they say themselves, "We are standing on the shoulders of those who have gone before us." Drawing on the entire history of Christianity and the entire Bible, they put together the whole vision of what the Bible is about. If that sounds far-fetched, consider, what does Paul mean when he says, "Making known to us the mystery of His will according to His good pleasure, which He purposed in Himself" (Eph. 1:9) What is God's "good pleasure?" What is "the mystery of His will?"
Has anyone ever told you what God's good pleasure is? Just a hint, it is not salvation. What were we created for? Salvation was just to bring us back onto the track of accomplishing God's will, which is according to His good pleasure. The key question is, What is God's will? What is His will for Himself which impelled Him to "stretch forth the heavens, lay the foundation of the earth, and form the spirit of man within him" (Zech. 12:1). The answer to that question is what unlocks the Bible and puts all the puzzle pieces together. That answer is what Nee and Lee discovered, and it has been hiding in the Bible in plain sight all along.
As a quick example, consider "eating Christ." Jesus was born in Bethlehem, which means "house of bread," He was laid in a trough (a place for animal food), and He said, "I am the living bread that came down out of heaven" (Jn. 6:51). He also said, Eat me, and you will live because of Me" (Jn. 6:57). Have you ever seen the matter of eating Jesus? Has anyone ever preached that to you? And yet there it is in the Bible. I didn't see it until Lee pointed it out. All I can say is "Amen, HOW do I eat You, Lord?" [Note: Catholics think "the flesh profits" something with transubstantiation, contrary to the Lord's word in Jn. 6:63]
It has not been considered "absolutely necessary" for 2,000 years and yet Jesus said that we must eat Him to live because of Him. So, which should we change, our practice or the Lord's word?
Who the "founding fathers" are is a complicated issue. Watchman Nee saw that all Christians are one, and that there should be no divisions among us except where we practically happen to be. Witness Lee brought Nee's vision to the west and worked it out. However, they didn't invent something new, as they say themselves, "We are standing on the shoulders of those who have gone before us." Drawing on the entire history of Christianity and the entire Bible, they put together the whole vision of what the Bible is about. If that sounds far-fetched, consider, what does Paul mean when he says, "Making known to us the mystery of His will according to His good pleasure, which He purposed in Himself" (Eph. 1:9) What is God's "good pleasure?" What is "the mystery of His will?"
Has anyone ever told you what God's good pleasure is? Just a hint, it is not salvation. What were we created for? Salvation was just to bring us back onto the track of accomplishing God's will, which is according to His good pleasure. The key question is, What is God's will? What is His will for Himself which impelled Him to "stretch forth the heavens, lay the foundation of the earth, and form the spirit of man within him" (Zech. 12:1). The answer to that question is what unlocks the Bible and puts all the puzzle pieces together. That answer is what Nee and Lee discovered, and it has been hiding in the Bible in plain sight all along.
2 Peter 1:20-21
20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.
KJV
This would seem to indicate that a claim of exclusivity would be cultic; whether it comes from the RCC, COC, or Lord's Recovery.
20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.
KJV
This would seem to indicate that a claim of exclusivity would be cultic; whether it comes from the RCC, COC, or Lord's Recovery.
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after decades devouring watchman nee's books by cfp- christian fellowship publishers,
it was very distressing to read some of the same titles printed by lsm. they are not the same, and the changes are not good.
online, i think the links are posted elsewhere in this thread, is enough available to show why to be very cautious if not avoid the lsm. as for a local church, i was in one that was delightful and true in serving jesus according to his word,
and one i looked into going to, thinking it would be as good, but they refused to have any care for poor people (and had 'lessons' from witness lee or lsm that they said described why not to help the poor).
nee was very good , one of the few known world wide, servants of jesus/ disciple/ believer/ teacher.
lee and lsm were not. each individual local church may or may not be.
one big difference - nee lived and taught the personal relationship with jesus - all in line with SCRIPTURE.
lee and lsm taught doctrine/ formal religion/ without necessarily any relationship with Jesus.
the good news - nee's original books are still available, the christian fellowship publishers editions from decades ago.
more good news - hopefully if you find a local church, per se, it will be like the true living delightful church i saw years before the one that had no care for the poor. pray constantly and stay in scripture, always trusting God through Jesus, no matter where you are or go.
more good news - the fastest growing churches in the world are in communist china, underground, house churches (not local churches) , from watchman nee's discipleship training --- all springing up "independent" of one another, with JESUS as the HEAD and LEADER of the assembly and GOD'S WORD as the test of everything.
more good news - there's likewise world wide in most countries similar parts of the body of christ on earth growing 'spontaneously' (not related to nee or his teachings) , as it is written in Malachi, with people talking to one another about GOD and JESUS and the WORD OF GOD AS THE STANDARD --- no manmade doctrines, no heresy, no shadow, no "other gospel" , no greed(this is one of the biggest surprises to find, and one of the best 'markers') , no pride, and so on --- i.e. already being purified for christs return, the bride of christ, true believers following Jesus as in the book of Acts and Ephesians and Revelation and Philippians.... i.e. as the BIBLE says; not manmade things and ways....
always living, each day, as GOD leads by grace in Jesus.
it was very distressing to read some of the same titles printed by lsm. they are not the same, and the changes are not good.
online, i think the links are posted elsewhere in this thread, is enough available to show why to be very cautious if not avoid the lsm. as for a local church, i was in one that was delightful and true in serving jesus according to his word,
and one i looked into going to, thinking it would be as good, but they refused to have any care for poor people (and had 'lessons' from witness lee or lsm that they said described why not to help the poor).
nee was very good , one of the few known world wide, servants of jesus/ disciple/ believer/ teacher.
lee and lsm were not. each individual local church may or may not be.
one big difference - nee lived and taught the personal relationship with jesus - all in line with SCRIPTURE.
lee and lsm taught doctrine/ formal religion/ without necessarily any relationship with Jesus.
the good news - nee's original books are still available, the christian fellowship publishers editions from decades ago.
more good news - hopefully if you find a local church, per se, it will be like the true living delightful church i saw years before the one that had no care for the poor. pray constantly and stay in scripture, always trusting God through Jesus, no matter where you are or go.
more good news - the fastest growing churches in the world are in communist china, underground, house churches (not local churches) , from watchman nee's discipleship training --- all springing up "independent" of one another, with JESUS as the HEAD and LEADER of the assembly and GOD'S WORD as the test of everything.
more good news - there's likewise world wide in most countries similar parts of the body of christ on earth growing 'spontaneously' (not related to nee or his teachings) , as it is written in Malachi, with people talking to one another about GOD and JESUS and the WORD OF GOD AS THE STANDARD --- no manmade doctrines, no heresy, no shadow, no "other gospel" , no greed(this is one of the biggest surprises to find, and one of the best 'markers') , no pride, and so on --- i.e. already being purified for christs return, the bride of christ, true believers following Jesus as in the book of Acts and Ephesians and Revelation and Philippians.... i.e. as the BIBLE says; not manmade things and ways....
always living, each day, as GOD leads by grace in Jesus.
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The word ecclesia (assembly)<----where the word church is applied is viewed under the banner of a LOCAL, VISIBLE, CALLED OUT ASSEMBLY (chruch) covented together to fulfill the marching orders as given in Matthew 28......................So, not sure why you think there is something unique about a LOCAL CHURCH as the local church has been operating ever since Jesus called OUT his first two disciples.......!
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