The Lord's Recovery aka The Local Church
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I should have posted this a while ago, but I just wanted to thank everyone for your contributions to this discussion. For those who followed my posts, you may have gathered that my intent for looking deeper into the teachings of The Local Church (TLC) came from the fact that my boyfriend attends this church, and my hearts desire was to determine if I could imagine attending this church should we possibly marry.
God, in His usual perfection, granted me the peace, guidance, and discernment that I needed.. at exactly the right time and in exactly the right way.
After meeting with my pastor, and finally with elders from TLC, I put down the research and just went to God in prayer.
The end result is that after seeking godly counsel, reading His Word, doing unbiased research, having fellowship with members of that church, as well as praying fervently, God made it abundantly clear to me that this church (at least the small one here in my hometown - I cannot speak for every single location) is a family of genuine born-again believers who love the Lord with all their hearts. Not a single member of the church (including my boyfriend's parents who attend localities back in Taiwan) got defensive at my questions. They welcomed my approach as Berean, and told me to never abandon that attitude.
In the end, all of my doubts and concerns were put into context and laid to rest. The minor differences that remained were in fact so superficial that they had no negative impact whatsoever on my faith or my willingness to attend that church should I marry my boyfriend. On all of the core elements of the Christian faith, and I can confidently say that I stand in full fellowship and agreement with these brothers and sisters.
I hope that if anyone else should stumble across this thread in the future, my discoveries and perspective will be helpful. It would be hypocritical of me to ask that anyone simply accept my findings as fact, so I ask that if anyone reading this is coming from a similar situation.. please turn to the Lord and ask Him for discernment. Pray, read His word, seek His will, and trust that He will not fail you.
God, in His usual perfection, granted me the peace, guidance, and discernment that I needed.. at exactly the right time and in exactly the right way.
After meeting with my pastor, and finally with elders from TLC, I put down the research and just went to God in prayer.
The end result is that after seeking godly counsel, reading His Word, doing unbiased research, having fellowship with members of that church, as well as praying fervently, God made it abundantly clear to me that this church (at least the small one here in my hometown - I cannot speak for every single location) is a family of genuine born-again believers who love the Lord with all their hearts. Not a single member of the church (including my boyfriend's parents who attend localities back in Taiwan) got defensive at my questions. They welcomed my approach as Berean, and told me to never abandon that attitude.
In the end, all of my doubts and concerns were put into context and laid to rest. The minor differences that remained were in fact so superficial that they had no negative impact whatsoever on my faith or my willingness to attend that church should I marry my boyfriend. On all of the core elements of the Christian faith, and I can confidently say that I stand in full fellowship and agreement with these brothers and sisters.
I hope that if anyone else should stumble across this thread in the future, my discoveries and perspective will be helpful. It would be hypocritical of me to ask that anyone simply accept my findings as fact, so I ask that if anyone reading this is coming from a similar situation.. please turn to the Lord and ask Him for discernment. Pray, read His word, seek His will, and trust that He will not fail you.
Being unable to question the teachings of witness lee is a major indidication they are a cult. I visited one of their churches once, and was invited to ask questions. When I did, everyone shouted me down. They are in fact a cult. One does not become a God as they teach. They match all the earmarks of being a cult.
who is Steve Gregg ?
Yes, I'm very familiar with "the Local Church." Several of my dearest friends attended there, and many were our "TGIF" (Thank God it's Friday) hangouts discussing doctrine between us. The Lord is sweet! I actually met and sat under Witness Lee's preaching on several occasions and went witnessing (no pun intended) with him and other saints.
The Local Church was started by Witness Lee, a Baptist from China. Both of his parents were also raised Baptist, and that whole family, Lee included, endured the struggles of the "underground church" in China. Lee eventually moved to the US and established a publishing company called "Living Streams Ministry" in Anaheim, CA. That's were I met him.
The Local Church's emphasis is, practically, godly living is a daily, gradual process. Yielding to one another as one would yield to Christ is readily preached and practiced among the saints. The Local Church is big on the brethren (adult men of the congregation) being equipped to protect, guide, teach and rule over all the sisters and younger men/boys. I always felt very safe among the saints there, and I always believed they genuinely cared for those visiting them as I would.
The Local Church are joyfully a cappella during worship; all sister 12 yrs and over wear head coverings; the saints understand and appreciate the value of courtship, and doctrine of the Local Church is pretty sound Baptist-flavor overall, except when it comes to Lee's famous "economy of God," which was confusing to me; at times contradicting, and the "eating of Christ," which I refuse to be true all together since the early 90's.
They also tend to "live together" as in "brother's training home" or "sister's training home" in which one or two married couples will board-in 2-4 single brothers or single sisters to train them up in the faith. Everybody is accountable to one another for the sake of "not bringing shame to the name of our Lord Jesus Christ," as Witness would say. I stopped mingling with the Local Church back in '96. Witness Lee passed away in '97, if I remember correctly.
What's funny is that about 10 years ago, I was at a Target parking lot returning the cart to its place when out-of-thin-air, a lady watching what I was doing, stops me and says, "You seem peaceful. Do you know God?" I, astonished, replied, "Yes, of course!"
So, the lady hands me a "Recovery Version" NT, which I immediately recognize to be a Living Streams Ministry NT that Witness Lee had published. LOL. I couldn't believe it!. I thanked her, and we both went our merry way. That NT has since been part of my library. The Lord is good.
If you have access to a "Local Church," yes, it's safe to fellowship with them as long as the intensions of your heart is to learn directly from the Holy Spirit of God. If you hear/see anything goofy you may not understand at the time, ask the leading saints or another sister to explain it to you. Then pray about it to allow God to have the last say in your heart.
Remember that there is no "perfect church," there are only imperfect sinners being refined and loved by a most Holy and Perfect God.
Hugs in Christ,
BPie
The Local Church was started by Witness Lee, a Baptist from China. Both of his parents were also raised Baptist, and that whole family, Lee included, endured the struggles of the "underground church" in China. Lee eventually moved to the US and established a publishing company called "Living Streams Ministry" in Anaheim, CA. That's were I met him.
The Local Church's emphasis is, practically, godly living is a daily, gradual process. Yielding to one another as one would yield to Christ is readily preached and practiced among the saints. The Local Church is big on the brethren (adult men of the congregation) being equipped to protect, guide, teach and rule over all the sisters and younger men/boys. I always felt very safe among the saints there, and I always believed they genuinely cared for those visiting them as I would.
The Local Church are joyfully a cappella during worship; all sister 12 yrs and over wear head coverings; the saints understand and appreciate the value of courtship, and doctrine of the Local Church is pretty sound Baptist-flavor overall, except when it comes to Lee's famous "economy of God," which was confusing to me; at times contradicting, and the "eating of Christ," which I refuse to be true all together since the early 90's.
They also tend to "live together" as in "brother's training home" or "sister's training home" in which one or two married couples will board-in 2-4 single brothers or single sisters to train them up in the faith. Everybody is accountable to one another for the sake of "not bringing shame to the name of our Lord Jesus Christ," as Witness would say. I stopped mingling with the Local Church back in '96. Witness Lee passed away in '97, if I remember correctly.
What's funny is that about 10 years ago, I was at a Target parking lot returning the cart to its place when out-of-thin-air, a lady watching what I was doing, stops me and says, "You seem peaceful. Do you know God?" I, astonished, replied, "Yes, of course!"
So, the lady hands me a "Recovery Version" NT, which I immediately recognize to be a Living Streams Ministry NT that Witness Lee had published. LOL. I couldn't believe it!. I thanked her, and we both went our merry way. That NT has since been part of my library. The Lord is good.
If you have access to a "Local Church," yes, it's safe to fellowship with them as long as the intensions of your heart is to learn directly from the Holy Spirit of God. If you hear/see anything goofy you may not understand at the time, ask the leading saints or another sister to explain it to you. Then pray about it to allow God to have the last say in your heart.
Remember that there is no "perfect church," there are only imperfect sinners being refined and loved by a most Holy and Perfect God.
Hugs in Christ,
BPie
29 Two or three prophets should speak, and the others should weigh carefully what is said. 30 And if a revelation comes to someone who is sitting down, the first speaker should stop. 31 For you can all prophesy in turn so that everyone may be instructed and encouraged. 32 The spirits of prophets are subject to the control of prophets. 33 For God is not a God of disorder but of peace—as in all the congregations of the Lord’s people.
34 Women[f] should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the law says. 35 If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church
In the Local Church I visited it was Choas.
34 Women[f] should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the law says. 35 If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church
In the Local Church I visited it was Choas.
I should have posted this a while ago, but I just wanted to thank everyone for your contributions to this discussion. For those who followed my posts, you may have gathered that my intent for looking deeper into the teachings of The Local Church (TLC) came from the fact that my boyfriend attends this church, and my hearts desire was to determine if I could imagine attending this church should we possibly marry.
God, in His usual perfection, granted me the peace, guidance, and discernment that I needed.. at exactly the right time and in exactly the right way.
After meeting with my pastor, and finally with elders from TLC, I put down the research and just went to God in prayer.
The end result is that after seeking godly counsel, reading His Word, doing unbiased research, having fellowship with members of that church, as well as praying fervently, God made it abundantly clear to me that this church (at least the small one here in my hometown - I cannot speak for every single location) is a family of genuine born-again believers who love the Lord with all their hearts. Not a single member of the church (including my boyfriend's parents who attend localities back in Taiwan) got defensive at my questions. They welcomed my approach as Berean, and told me to never abandon that attitude.
In the end, all of my doubts and concerns were put into context and laid to rest. The minor differences that remained were in fact so superficial that they had no negative impact whatsoever on my faith or my willingness to attend that church should I marry my boyfriend. On all of the core elements of the Christian faith, and I can confidently say that I stand in full fellowship and agreement with these brothers and sisters.
I hope that if anyone else should stumble across this thread in the future, my discoveries and perspective will be helpful. It would be hypocritical of me to ask that anyone simply accept my findings as fact, so I ask that if anyone reading this is coming from a similar situation.. please turn to the Lord and ask Him for discernment. Pray, read His word, seek His will, and trust that He will not fail you.
God, in His usual perfection, granted me the peace, guidance, and discernment that I needed.. at exactly the right time and in exactly the right way.
After meeting with my pastor, and finally with elders from TLC, I put down the research and just went to God in prayer.
The end result is that after seeking godly counsel, reading His Word, doing unbiased research, having fellowship with members of that church, as well as praying fervently, God made it abundantly clear to me that this church (at least the small one here in my hometown - I cannot speak for every single location) is a family of genuine born-again believers who love the Lord with all their hearts. Not a single member of the church (including my boyfriend's parents who attend localities back in Taiwan) got defensive at my questions. They welcomed my approach as Berean, and told me to never abandon that attitude.
In the end, all of my doubts and concerns were put into context and laid to rest. The minor differences that remained were in fact so superficial that they had no negative impact whatsoever on my faith or my willingness to attend that church should I marry my boyfriend. On all of the core elements of the Christian faith, and I can confidently say that I stand in full fellowship and agreement with these brothers and sisters.
I hope that if anyone else should stumble across this thread in the future, my discoveries and perspective will be helpful. It would be hypocritical of me to ask that anyone simply accept my findings as fact, so I ask that if anyone reading this is coming from a similar situation.. please turn to the Lord and ask Him for discernment. Pray, read His word, seek His will, and trust that He will not fail you.
Do you think you will become a human God?
This is a glaring example of a cult in action.
"
CONSUMER ALERT:
Pleae note: In January, 2003, Jim Moran, who operated Light Of Truth Ministries - a site critical of The Local Church, which is a cult of Christianity - died of a massive heart attack.
It now turns out that since Jim died without leaving a will The Local Church has managed to gain control over Jim's files, computer records and domain names.
This means that any information currently posted under the domain names thelocalchurch.org, ltm.org, biblesforamericaexposed.org, and recoveryversionexposed.org is now provided by The Local Church - the cult whose teachings and actions Jim Moran worked hard to expose.
Hopefully, the material produced by Jim Moran will soon be placed online again. Links to Jim's former sites have been adjusted. (If you had a link to Jim Moran's website, make sure you delete or change it. Otherwise, people are inadvertently misdirected to the cult's site).
Note: The Local Church (specifically, "The Church in Fullerton") has posted lies about the late Jim Moran's former website - which they claim they have 'lawfully acquired' (including "all of the copyrights, trade names, and trademarks to Mr. Moran's works, including this website").
The Local Church in Fullerton wrote:
We ask that no part of Mr. Moran's site or any of the articles, publications, postings, materials or other works of authorship be used in any way without the express written permission of The Church in Fullerton.
[...]
Defamation:
Due to the factual misrepresentations, innuendo and false impressions contained in the materials previously posted on this website, parties desiring to use those materials are cautioned to exercise care not to mislead readers or to damage reputations. Careful verification of the accuracy and fairness of such quoted materials is required.
Source: (CAUTION: we believe that comments made by the Local Church regarding the late Jim Moran and his former website can not be trusted)
It should be noted that Apologetics Index has not (yet) received any official legal communication from the Local Church. We only received an email from someone with an aol.com address, claiming to represent The Church in Fullerton. We have no way of verifying whether that person does indeed represent the Local Church, or whether the email address belongs to a 13-year old pimple-faced boy with a poor sense of humor.
The "Church in Fullerton" and any other Local Church entity is hereby put on notice that Apologetics Index will continue to quote Jim Moran's material under fair use clauses of international and local (Netherlands) copyright laws. Jim Moran's site also included materials provided by third parties, and the copyright to such third-party material was not transfered to the Local Church.
Though it claims otherwise, the Local Church has shown itself to be unable to deal with legitimate criticism in a biblical, Christian manner. (See, for example, this article)
Since it appears that the Local Church does not value free speech, we have for some time advised interested researchers to download any and all information authored and/or posted by Jim Moran to their local computers.
Such information, posted by various parties at a number of web sites could previously be found using this Google search
Google also caches copies of web pages, but Jim Moran's cached files disappeared soon after the Local Church took possession of his research material.
For a while, Apologetics Index offered interested researchers a copy of Google's cached versions of Jim Moran's site, which we downloaded from Google on April 2 and 11, 2003. Now that other sites throughout the world have taken down Jim's original writings, we will remove them from our servers in the Netherlands as well.
It should be noted that various cults have a history of using and abusing the legal system in order to try and hide any and all material that is critical of their theology and/or behavior. Rather than honestly and intelligently discussing the issues at hand, they resort to censorship. Information control is one of the warning signs of cultic behavior.
Apologetics Index, on the other hand, consistently links to information from a variety of perspectives, and from various resources - including the cults, sects, religions, movements and/or organizations it discusses.
With this is mind, we suggest you study the research resources provided in this entry. It includes fair use quotes, as well as links to pro- and contra information on the Local Church. (Incidentally, lawyer types and information-controllers may want to read this site's disclaimer)."
https://www.apologeticsindex.org/l40.html#consumeralert
"
CONSUMER ALERT:
Pleae note: In January, 2003, Jim Moran, who operated Light Of Truth Ministries - a site critical of The Local Church, which is a cult of Christianity - died of a massive heart attack.
It now turns out that since Jim died without leaving a will The Local Church has managed to gain control over Jim's files, computer records and domain names.
This means that any information currently posted under the domain names thelocalchurch.org, ltm.org, biblesforamericaexposed.org, and recoveryversionexposed.org is now provided by The Local Church - the cult whose teachings and actions Jim Moran worked hard to expose.
Hopefully, the material produced by Jim Moran will soon be placed online again. Links to Jim's former sites have been adjusted. (If you had a link to Jim Moran's website, make sure you delete or change it. Otherwise, people are inadvertently misdirected to the cult's site).
Note: The Local Church (specifically, "The Church in Fullerton") has posted lies about the late Jim Moran's former website - which they claim they have 'lawfully acquired' (including "all of the copyrights, trade names, and trademarks to Mr. Moran's works, including this website").
The Local Church in Fullerton wrote:
We ask that no part of Mr. Moran's site or any of the articles, publications, postings, materials or other works of authorship be used in any way without the express written permission of The Church in Fullerton.
[...]
Defamation:
Due to the factual misrepresentations, innuendo and false impressions contained in the materials previously posted on this website, parties desiring to use those materials are cautioned to exercise care not to mislead readers or to damage reputations. Careful verification of the accuracy and fairness of such quoted materials is required.
Source: (CAUTION: we believe that comments made by the Local Church regarding the late Jim Moran and his former website can not be trusted)
It should be noted that Apologetics Index has not (yet) received any official legal communication from the Local Church. We only received an email from someone with an aol.com address, claiming to represent The Church in Fullerton. We have no way of verifying whether that person does indeed represent the Local Church, or whether the email address belongs to a 13-year old pimple-faced boy with a poor sense of humor.
The "Church in Fullerton" and any other Local Church entity is hereby put on notice that Apologetics Index will continue to quote Jim Moran's material under fair use clauses of international and local (Netherlands) copyright laws. Jim Moran's site also included materials provided by third parties, and the copyright to such third-party material was not transfered to the Local Church.
Though it claims otherwise, the Local Church has shown itself to be unable to deal with legitimate criticism in a biblical, Christian manner. (See, for example, this article)
Since it appears that the Local Church does not value free speech, we have for some time advised interested researchers to download any and all information authored and/or posted by Jim Moran to their local computers.
Such information, posted by various parties at a number of web sites could previously be found using this Google search
Google also caches copies of web pages, but Jim Moran's cached files disappeared soon after the Local Church took possession of his research material.
For a while, Apologetics Index offered interested researchers a copy of Google's cached versions of Jim Moran's site, which we downloaded from Google on April 2 and 11, 2003. Now that other sites throughout the world have taken down Jim's original writings, we will remove them from our servers in the Netherlands as well.
It should be noted that various cults have a history of using and abusing the legal system in order to try and hide any and all material that is critical of their theology and/or behavior. Rather than honestly and intelligently discussing the issues at hand, they resort to censorship. Information control is one of the warning signs of cultic behavior.
Apologetics Index, on the other hand, consistently links to information from a variety of perspectives, and from various resources - including the cults, sects, religions, movements and/or organizations it discusses.
With this is mind, we suggest you study the research resources provided in this entry. It includes fair use quotes, as well as links to pro- and contra information on the Local Church. (Incidentally, lawyer types and information-controllers may want to read this site's disclaimer)."
https://www.apologeticsindex.org/l40.html#consumeralert