The Message

zone · Nov 29, 2012

i read these anecdotes all the time.
how do you know you were called to preach the gospel at 19?
someone told you?

"reading my mail" << charismatic buzz-term

see, you come from an entirely new thing happening the church. it's deception.
that's what you do not understand.

perhaps we'll get to it later today.
i question your calling if you do not understand this issue.

zone

zone · Nov 29, 2012

Peterson's New Age antichristian book The Message should be our first clue.

eternally-gratefull · Nov 29, 2012

I wonder why no one has shown why we would have prophets that would add to the word of God. If someone is plainly telling us what the word already says, they are not a prophet, but a teacher, if someone is saying something which can not be backed up by scripture. I would run like heck because we have no way to test them, and anyone can say something and call it prophesy.

As far as someone interrupting a church service proclaiming to have received a message from God. Nonsense! God is not going to interrupt a teaching and give a message in the middle of it. God is not the author of confusion. He already has the pastor (if he is a pastor from god) teaching the flock a message which needs to be taught, you think God is going to interrupt that?

as for prophesies concerning America? why would God do this? God has not dealt with nation states since Israel. Yes, in the last days god is going to send two prophets. but God already told us who they are and where they will be so we already have warning of these two. so no one would argue about them. but what reason is there for prophesy today? we already have the word.!!

as far as God laying on your heart to give someone a message about something in their life. this is not prophesy, this is just God using one person to speak to another.

zone · Nov 29, 2012

eternally-gratefull said:

I wonder why no one has shown why we would have prophets that would add to the word of God. If someone is plainly telling us what the word already says, they are not a prophet, but a teacher, if someone is saying something which can not be backed up by scripture. I would run like heck because we have no way to test them, and anyone can say something and call it prophesy.

As far as someone interrupting a church service proclaiming to have received a message from God. Nonsense! God is not going to interrupt a teaching and give a message in the middle of it. God is not the author of confusion. He already has the pastor (if he is a pastor from god) teaching the flock a message which needs to be taught, you think God is going to interrupt that?

as for prophesies concerning America? why would God do this? God has not dealt with nation states since Israel. Yes, in the last days god is going to send two prophets. but God already told us who they are and where they will be so we already have warning of these two. so no one would argue about them. but what reason is there for prophesy today? we already have the word.!!

as far as God laying on your heart to give someone a message about something in their life. this is not prophesy, this is just God using one person to speak to another.

EG.....what happened to this:

Hebrews 5:14
But solid food is for the mature, for those who have their powers of discernment trained by constant practice to distinguish good from evil.

where does the ability to discern come from?

osmosis?

or study under the Spirit?

bank tellers learn about counterfeit by handling real money.

eternally-gratefull · Nov 29, 2012

zone said:

I agree. Israel had no prophet for a few hundred years after Micah, Because the OT prophesies and/or message had been complete. there was nothing else to add.

We were told right before messiah came, there would be another prophet. He had a reason. And he came for that reason which was foretold.

What is different about now? is not the NT message complete? what else is there to say that we are not already told in the NT scripture? Would it not be like those few hundred years, where there is silence, up until the end, when God said their would be prophets again?? yet they were foretold?

BarlyGurl · Nov 29, 2012

bank tellers learn about counterfeit by handling real money.[/QUOTE]

The problem is... only bank tellers are bank tellers... and the counterfeit realm regarding christianity is vast... we need each other. Stay off that highhorse Zone... here I made some tea... join me?

zone · Nov 29, 2012

BarlyGurl said:

Tell me about how we need the counterfeiters in the church BarlyGurl.
sure.
cream, no sugar.

zone · Nov 29, 2012

eternally-gratefull said:

pretty straight-forward.
one day of reading the history of this movement (and preparing to repent and be forgiven) is all that's required to get past the smoke and mirrors.

the NT was being revealed. it was.
now we read it and The Spirit works.
anything else is apostasy

Stephen63 · Nov 29, 2012

zone said:

a prophecy class?
what's that?

good so far.
what's that got to do with people claiming to be 'a spokesman for God' today?

(why so many people dare to claim they are mediators for God today is beyond me).

could you refer me to any modern anointed spokesmen for God by name please?
i would like to look at their words.

thank you.

and?
what are you trying to make Mr. Easton say?
re-read it.
nothing you posted thus far supports continuation of those offices.
nothing.

okay.
is this the part where we begin to play loose with the word prophet?

the shell game....

yes. of course

a "gift" is "abused" to the point of being ridiculous, but that is not evidence that the "gift" being "abused" is fake.

no, i'm sorry....if you can offer any (ANY) prophecies from people you consider anointed spokesmen for God (in the very same way the Biblical prophets and apostles were - otherwise you have a new breed)

alright.
personal direction from the Spirit for the believer? great! AMEN. we all experience that.

this does not in any way shape or form make anyone a called and inspired prophet equal in authority to those who received and complied our scriptures.

this logic is dangerous and deceitful.

right.
but you still have to show that what goes on today and is called "prophecy" is what Paul was describing.
you can't, and it is not.

AMEN.
and now we have our scriptures, which are just as inspired, and we have the Spirit Who is the same Spirit.
so why do we keep overthrowing the foundation already laid?

this is very serious business, and it is strange fire.

is that the best you can do?

offer up the most authentic prophecies uttered today please. let me see them.

yes. the shell game.
no, according to one form of the word.
we love and need our preachers.
they are fallible men who preach from the infallible Word (revealed infallibly to fallible but inspired and authoritative men and recorded forever for us)

please offer up one single man today who you believe is as authoritative as Paul or any of the prophets in the NT.
i need to see their writing.

you should be careful with your loose handling of the term and office of prophet.

is this what you would recommend for someone today who thinks they're hearing new revelation from God?:

"What is the School of the Prophets?

The School of the Prophets is a ministerial school of development for those who are called to any aspect of prophetic ministry, and especially targets those who are called to or desire a deeper understanding of the prophetic office.

Through the delineation of the prophetic component found throughout scripture, the validity of the prophetic ministry for today is clearly determined to dispel the inordinate degree of unbelief, skepticism and prejudice which permeates the Body of Christ.

There are four levels of PROPHETIC MINISTRY that are widely used and excepted throughout Apostolic and Prophetic Ministries today."

School of Prophecy

anyone getting involved in this stuff is headed for certain apostasy. these groups will tell us that anything less than a 100% accuracy rate is normal today.

they play dialectical games with words and passages.

God is not calling prophets today.

Acts 2 is OVER. Done.
Finished. we now read about the MIRACLE.
the gap deception which places Pentecost in our day, or drums up some kind of renewal is deception from hell.
this is so easy to refute. yet people refuse to face it.
too far into it, too much repenting to do when they have to admit they've been deceived and or deceiving.

anyone claiming new revelation is adding to scripture and comes under the Rev 22 curse.
and yet it is so alluring to so many.

what's that got to do with today?

does your Bible end like mine?. when was the last time you read what it says?
the answer to this issue is here:

Revelation 22
Jesus Is Coming
6And he said to me, “These words are trustworthy and true. And the Lord, the God of the spirits of the prophets, has sent his angel to show his servants what must soon take place.”

7“And behold, I am coming soon. Blessed is the one who keeps the words of the prophecy of this book.”

8I, John, am the one who heard and saw these things. And when I heard and saw them, I fell down to worship at the feet of the angel who showed them to me, 9but he said to me, “You must not do that! I am a fellow servantd with you and your brothers the prophets, and with those who keep the words of this book. Worship God.”

10And he said to me, “Do not seal up the words of the prophecy of this book, for the time is near. 11Let the evildoer still do evil, and the filthy still be filthy, and the righteous still do right, and the holy still be holy.”

12“Behold, I am coming soon, bringing my recompense with me, to repay everyone for what he has done. 13I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end.”

14Blessed are those who wash their robes,e so that they may have the right to the tree of life and that they may enter the city by the gates. 15Outside are the dogs and sorcerers and the sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and everyone who loves and practices falsehood.

16“I, Jesus, have sent my angel to testify to you about these things for the churches. I am the root and the descendant of David, the bright morning star.”

17The Spirit and the Bride say, “Come.” And let the one who hears say, “Come.” And let the one who is thirsty come; let the one who desires take the water of life without price.

18I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: if anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book, 19and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God will take away his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book.

20He who testifies to these things says, “Surely I am coming soon.” Amen. Come, Lord Jesus!

21The grace of the Lord Jesus be with all.f Amen.

respectfully determined,
zone.

It's not what I see here that causes me to reply, but what I don't see. I don't see a single Scripture you have used to prove your point. Perhaps some of the other readers can help you by supplying you with the Scriptures that state in no uncertain terms that the office of Prophet has ceased. That's all I'm asking. This is the Bible Discussion Forum. Please use your Bible to prove what you say. No Scripture, no proof. Without Scripture, any argument is just a bunch of blah blah blah blah blah. I won't believe anyone's argument without Scripture to back it.

1still_waters · Nov 29, 2012

*waves*
Hi Twofeet!

I don't really have a wall of text for you to scale.

So just waving HI!

*waves*

zone · Nov 29, 2012

Stephen63 said:

do i get more than 10 minutes?

i'm making breakfast.
in the meantime, if you could produce those prophetic writings, it would go a long way to furthering this convo.
we can look at scriptures.
zone.

1still_waters · Nov 29, 2012

Hey folks, I haven't read this entire thread.....

BUT IF...

Certain people are now turning it into a discussion on prophets and the NAR, and the like, and this post didn't originally have anything to do with that...

ummm...errm...

Can you please take said discussion and make a new thread on it?

Please!

From what Twofeet says, she really didn't introduce a certain topic into the ecosystem of this said thread.

BarlyGurl · Nov 29, 2012

zone said:

OH... we soooo don't need the counterfeiters... I meant... we need each other for discerning the vastness regarding the variety of forms it can take.

for example... i have never heard of the NAR and some other mentions in this thread.
Is Fresh Goat's milk OK? It's 4% butterfat...

Stephen63 · Nov 29, 2012

zone said:

could you refer me to any modern anointed spokesmen for God by name please?
i would like to look at their words.

thank you.

Not every prophet wrote down their prophecies. Personal prophecies are not to be written down, they are to be told to the person involved.
While I do not claim it for personal glory, through my years as a minister I have prophesied to over a dozen people. Being a mouthpiece for God does not always mean telling people that a certain thing is going to come to pass. It can also be God's warning or instruction to them about their personal life.
Not every prophet in Scripture spoke on the teachings of Scripture itself. If you thought that's all prophets did, you're sadly mistaken. Note the Scriptures:

Acts 21:8-11 8 And the next day we that were of Paul's company departed, and came unto Caesarea: and we entered into the house of Philip the evangelist, which was one of the seven; and abode with him. 9 And the same man had four daughters, virgins, which did prophesy. 10 And as we tarried there many days, there came down from Judaea a certain prophet, named Agabus. 11 And when he was come unto us, he took Paul's girdle, and bound his own hands and feet, and said, Thus saith the Holy Ghost, So shall the Jews at Jerusalem bind the man that owneth this girdle, and shall deliver him into the hands of the Gentiles.
Acts 21:3-4 3 Now when we had discovered Cyprus, we left it on the left hand, and sailed into Syria, and landed at Tyre: for there the ship was to unlade her burden. 4 And finding disciples, we tarried there seven days: who said to Paul through the Spirit, that he should not go up to Jerusalem.
in Luke chapter 2, Simeon and Anna prophesied to Jesus's parents

All through Scripture, the majority of the prophets prophesied to individuals as well as nations. What they prophesied about was personal to them, whether blessing, or judgment. Actually, very little was done by prophets on the order of teaching.

okay.
is this the part where we begin to play loose with the word prophet?

the shell game....
It is you it does not know the office of a prophet. The majority of prophecies in the Old Testament were judgments against individuals or nations that angered God. In the New Testament, many of them were forth telling of things to come, as well as warnings.

God is not calling prophets today.

Acts 2 is OVER. Done.
Finished. we now read about the MIRACLE.
the gap deception which places Pentecost in our day, or drums up some kind of renewal is deception from hell.
this is so easy to refute. yet people refuse to face it.
too far into it, too much repenting to do when they have to admit they've been deceived and or deceiving.

This is incorrect. You cannot prove it with Scripture, and neither can anyone else. Neither is it my fault that you're a cessationist. Saying such things is in itself teaching false doctrine. When did God say it is over? Did someone reveal this to you?

anyone claiming new revelation is adding to scripture and comes under the Rev 22 curse.
and yet it is so alluring to so many.

Revelation 22
Jesus Is Coming
6And he said to me, “These words are trustworthy and true. And the Lord, the God of the spirits of the prophets, has sent his angel to show his servants what must soon take place.”

7“And behold, I am coming soon. Blessed is the one who keeps the words of the prophecy of this book.”

8I, John, am the one who heard and saw these things. And when I heard and saw them, I fell down to worship at the feet of the angel who showed them to me, 9but he said to me, “You must not do that! I am a fellow servantd with you and your brothers the prophets, and with those who keep the words of this book. Worship God.”

10And he said to me, “Do not seal up the words of the prophecy of this book, for the time is near. 11Let the evildoer still do evil, and the filthy still be filthy, and the righteous still do right, and the holy still be holy.”

12“Behold, I am coming soon, bringing my recompense with me, to repay everyone for what he has done. 13I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end.”

14Blessed are those who wash their robes,e so that they may have the right to the tree of life and that they may enter the city by the gates. 15Outside are the dogs and sorcerers and the sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and everyone who loves and practices falsehood.

16“I, Jesus, have sent my angel to testify to you about these things for the churches. I am the root and the descendant of David, the bright morning star.”

17The Spirit and the Bride say, “Come.” And let the one who hears say, “Come.” And let the one who is thirsty come; let the one who desires take the water of life without price.

18I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: if anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book, 19and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God will take away his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book.

This is inaccurate, to say the least. The curse is given upon the person who adds or takes away from the book of Revelation. That's why it says, " this book". If you cannot accurately handle this Scripture spoken plainly, I'm very doubtful about what you have to say about the rest. Besides, a revelation is not designed to add to Scripture. Revelation means to unveil , to reveal. When a person is called in to the ministry, that is a personal revelation only to them. When the preacher preaches an inspired message, the Holy Spirit has inspired, or revealed the need to him of that congregation to receive that message. In many cases, such sermons are revelations just for that congregation. Such inspiration, being Spirit led, is prophetic in nature.

zone · Nov 29, 2012

i noticed Still's instruction, so this'll be the last post in this thread.
but perhaps another

Stephen63 said:

yes this old standby.
separate one book from the whole.

rather daring, but very popular with the prophetic crowd.

do we really suppose Jesus meant to say 'y'all can add to or take away from any other book, but not Revelation...'?

Stephen63 said:

then i guess we're not talking about prophet 'prophets'.
(but we really were).

bye for now.

peterT · Nov 29, 2012

zone said:

How would you know?

There have been no accurate records kept since the Bible.

Well some accurate records have been kept of the false prophets, as for God sending His prophets they would be dead and not spoken about and there would be no record.

How do you know who God as used as a prophet in the last 2000 years

How do you know?

How do you know who has cried agents a city sent by God, or cried agents a church say the Catholic Church back in the dark ages and has died for their faith who God had sent..

Also the disciples were prophets and known as firstfruits and the 144000 are firstfruits and that’s still to come.

James 1:18 Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures
Romans 8:23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit.

peterT · Nov 29, 2012

Yes God already spoke his word concerning most things, but what he hasn’t spoken is direction and direction in the great tribulation which is still to come. Which street to go down and which street not to go down, where to hide and where not to hide, where’s safe and were is not safe, the best places to preach and were not to preach. This would be prophecy and you would need a miner prophet to lead Gods people.

For we don’t all die in the great tribulation.

17Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

unclefester · Nov 29, 2012

1still_waters said:

I like Twofeet. I honestly do. Early on, I found her wit and sense of humour endearing. I still do. But I can't "Amen" this post. Has anybody else noticed that God's Holy Spirit is not mentioned even once in this entire article ? Not once. I realize that this piece is an article on "prophets" ... but what was a prophet if not one who spoke the very Words of God thru His Holy Spirit ... and one who helped lay the very foundation of Christ's church some two-thousand years ago ? A tad unsettling, to say the least. Far too much credence given to "the work of the prophet" ... and far too little recognition given to the role and work of God's Holy Spirit .... whose job it was and still is to convict us of our sins unto repentance in the saving knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. No ... I can't relate to this authors words. She doesn't speak for me ... nor for many of my friends in Christ, I'm certain. Annnnyways ..... same ole ... same ole.

I have used many different bibles to study from over the years, I even have a German bible from my time spent working with young people in Austria. Although I do not use the Message bible to study from, every now I read something from there that really sums things up in modern day terms. Im just loving this introduction to the prophets, I couldn't have worded it better myself and it still stands so very true today.Prophets were never excepted back in them days, only years after did people realise who they were.But their message is still very much the same today.

" Over a period of several hundred years, the Hebrew people gave birth to an extraordinary number of prophets- men and women distinguished by the power and skill with which they presented the reality of God. They delivered Gods commands and promises and living presence to communities and nations who had been living on god-fantasies and god-lies.

Everyone more or less believes in God. But most of us do our best to keep God on the margins of our lives or. failing that, refashion God to suit our conveniences. Prophets insist that God is sovereign center, not off in the wings awaiting our beck and call. And the prophets insist we deal with God as God reveals himself. not as we imagine Him to be.

These men and women woke people up to the sovereign presence of god in their lives. They yelled, they wept, they rebuked, they soothed, they challenged, they comforted. They used words with power and imagination, whether blunt or subtle.

Prophets train us in the discerning the difference between the ways of this world and the ways of the gospel, keeping us present IN THE PRESENCE OF GOD.

We dont read very many pages into the Prophets before realizing that there was nothing easy going about them. Prophets were not popular figures. They never achieved celebrity status. They were decidedly uncongenial to the temperaments and dispositions of the people with whom they lived. And the centuries have not mellowed them. Its understandable that we should have a difficult time coming to terms with them. They are not particularly sensitive to our feelings. They have very modest, should we say, relationship skills. We like leaders, especially religious leaders, who understand our problems, leaders with a touch of glamour, leaders who look good on TV. The hard rock reality is that prophets don't fit into our way of life. For a people who are accustomed to "fitting God" into THEIR lives or as we like to say, "making room for God", the Prophets are hard to take or easy to dismiss. The God of whom the prophet speaks is far too large to fit into our lives. If we want anything to do with God, we have to fit into Him.

The Prophets are not "reasonable" accommodating themselves to what makes sense to us. They are not diplomatic, tactfully negotiating an agreement that allows us a "say" in the outcome. What they do is haul us unceremoniously into reality far too large to be accounted for but our explanations and expectations. They plunge us into mystery, immense and staggering.

Their words and visions penetrate the illusions with which we cocoon ourselves from reality. We humans have an enormous capacity for denial and for self-deceit. We incapacitate ourselves from dealing with the consequences of sin, for facing judgement, for embracing truth. Then the prophets step in and help us to first recognise and then enter the new life God has for us, the life that hole in God opens up.

They dont explain God. They shake us out of the old conventional habits and small-mindedness, of trivializing god-gossip, and set us on our feet in wonder and obedience and worship. If we insist on understanding them before we live into them , we will NEVER GET IT.

Basically, the prophets did 2 things. They worked to get people to accept the worst as Gods judgement-not religious catastrophe or a political disaster, but judgement. If what seems like the worst turns out to be Gods judgement, it can be embraced, not denied or avoided, for Gods good and intends our salvation.So. judgement, while certainly not what we human beings anticipate in our planned future, can never be the worst that can happen. It is the best, for it is the work of God to set the world, and us, right.

And the Prophets worked to get people who were beaten down to open themselves up to hope in God's future. In the wreckage of exile and death and humiliation and sin, the prophet ignited hope, opening up lives to the new work of salvation that God is about at all times and ever where.

One of the bad habits that we pick up early in our lives is separating things and people into secular and sacred. We assume that the secular is what we are more or less in charge of our jobs, our time, our entertainment, our government, our social relations. The sacred is what God has charge of: worship and the bible, heaven and hell, church and prayers.

We then contrive to set aside a sacred place for God, designed, we say, to honer God but really intended to keep God in His place, leaving us free to have the final say about everything else that goes on.

Prophets will have none of this.They contend that EVERYTHING, absolutely EVERYTHING, takes place on sacred ground. God has something to say about EVERY aspect of our lives. The way we feel and act in this so-called privacy of our own hearts and homes, the way we make our money and the way we spend it, the politics we embrace, the wars we fight, the catastrophes we endure, the people we hurt and the people we help. NOTHING is hidden from the scrutiny of God, nothing is exempt from the rule of God, nothing escapes the purposes of God. Holy, Holy, Holy.

Prophets make it IMPOSSIBLE to evade God or make detours around God. Prophets insists on receiving God in every nook and cranny of life.

For a Prophet, God....is more real.......than the next door neighbour."

There is defiantly a misunderstanding of prophets when people think all they are there for is to "foretell the future"[/SIZE]

Abiding · Nov 29, 2012

twofeet said:

If you look back over this thread. It was not me that brought prophecy into it, in fact, if you see my last statement on my post I said that's NOT what they are all about. I gave that other post to Zone as she was baiting to pull someone to pieces. Interesting, as when it comes to things like this I am very careful not to judge too quickly as prophecies can take MANY years before coming to fruition...a guess that comes back to man kind expecting everything to fit into his/her own way of thinking and time scale.

Red33, you said that many feel the need to make these kind of prophecies that always pronounce some kind of doom and gloom upon the church and the body of Christ.........God gives choices, are they never attached with " if you repent I will do this, but if you dont I will do that? " Or do people not listen to the repentance bit and only focus on the doom and gloom?

And Stilly...we now how the FULL revelation...when you got time please explain the book of revelation in full detail for me. Ive been dying to undertsand that book in its fullness

And abiding, who are you saying doesnt know scripture welll? Some may not be able to quote chapter and verse as you do but doesnt mean to say they do not know their bible and the power contained. For example, lets say you was feeling down one day because you had given up hope on someone or something, and I encouraged NOT to give up, the Bible says we should be FAITHFUL in prayer, pray without ceasing....do I know where those scriptures are...no....do I know the power of them, yes.Things change rapidly when those scriptures are applied because I KNOW my God and what He can do.

Wendy Alek, who you posted. ... . .This happens all the time. Deosnt make you a prophet.

schoolofyoungprophet · Nov 29, 2012

Check this out in full its only few min,the reasion why i left charismatic movement 7 years ago
Wretched with Todd Friel - False Prophet Called Out! - YouTube

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