The Natural Man

[Corban]

I'm not sure of your point ? you seem to be re stating what I'm saying . Unless I'm misunderstanding?

I tried to define "Natural" and "Spiritual". I had the impression that you made "Natural" and "unsaved" the same. An unsaved man is natural, but a Christian can be "Natural" and still be saved. He is just erroneously using the wrong source.

But tell me. You used these verses to bring up Calvin, and by default then, his opponent Arminius. But the verses you brought up don't address security or loss of salvation. Why bring them up? The "Natural man" is the whole human race who came from Adam. 1st Corinthians 15:44-47 makes every man who ever lived, except one, "Natural". And "Natural" you stay until resurrection.

44 "It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven."

 

[throughfaith]

How can a natural man receive Christ?

God chooses the natural man to save,like he chose me,...that’s how I came to believe...it was God who filled me with His Spirit,gave me the faith I have today.
How can the natural man believe....impossible.

Every believer still has the ' natural ' He also has the Spirit . The verse is talking about mature belivers v immature belivers . All belivers are carrying around the 'natural man 'until glorification.

 

[DiscipleA]

So how would you define "natural man?" An example might help, too.

 

[Nehemiah6]

Here we see this verse used to teach the Calvinstic idea of ' regeneration precedes faith ' And the T in TULIP .

That passage DOES NOT apply to the Gospel. There are deeper Gospel and Bible truths which must be understood by believers. Paul calls them "the deep things of God". But until and unless they have the Holy Spirit they will not understand spiritual things.

On the other hand the Gospel is meant to be (1)heard, (2)believed, and (3) obeyed by the unsaved (the natural men). And that is why we have Christ's command to preach the Gospel to every creature. All sinners can understand that (1) they are sinners, (2) there is a penalty for sins, (3) Christ died for their sins, and (4) Christ rose again for their justification.

 

[jackrosie]

Every believer still has the ' natural ' He also has the Spirit . The verse is talking about mature belivers v immature belivers . All belivers are carrying around the 'natural man 'until glorification.

I’m talking a natural man can’t believe the things of God,because they haven’t been saved.

Natural man is alienated from God...a born again is still in the flesh,but has recieved the Holy Spirit into their heart..a war goes on within us,flesh vs Spirit.

 

[Nehemiah6]

Every believer still has the ' natural ' He also has the Spirit .

That should be "every believer still has the "flesh" (the old Adamic sin nature). Thus the believer who walks after the flesh is "carnal". But every believer is "spiritual" if he or she walks in the Spirit.

NATURAL MAN ----> does not have the indwelling Holy Spirit

CARNAL MAN----> saved but walks after the flesh

SPIRITUAL MAN----> saved and walks after the Spirit

 

[DiscipleA]

See...you have two different opinions about the definition of "natural man." Let's work that out first.

 

[DiscipleA]

True, someone alienated from God won't believe the things of God (if/until they are reconciled.)

 

[DiscipleA]

Would an example of a natural man be Pharaoh of Egypt?

 

[jackrosie]

2 Corinthians 5:18

And all things are of God,who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation.

The natural man is dead..in sin.

 

[throughfaith]

I tried to define "Natural" and "Spiritual". I had the impression that you made "Natural" and "unsaved" the same. An unsaved man is natural, but a Christian can be "Natural" and still be saved. He is just erroneously using the wrong source.

But tell me. You used these verses to bring up Calvin, and by default then, his opponent Arminius. But the verses you brought up don't address security or loss of salvation. Why bring them up? The "Natural man" is the whole human race who came from Adam. 1st Corinthians 15:44-47 makes every man who ever lived, except one, "Natural". And "Natural" you stay until resurrection.

44 "It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven."

I believe we cann

That should be "every believer still has the "flesh" (the old Adamic sin nature). Thus the believer who walks after the flesh is "carnal". But every believer is "spiritual" if he or she walks in the Spirit.

NATURAL MAN ----> does not have the indwelling Holy Spirit

CARNAL MAN----> saved but walks after the flesh

SPIRITUAL MAN----> saved and walks after the Spirit

I agree that

That should be "every believer still has the "flesh" (the old Adamic sin nature). Thus the believer who walks after the flesh is "carnal". But every believer is "spiritual" if he or she walks in the Spirit.

NATURAL MAN ----> does not have the indwelling Holy Spirit

CARNAL MAN----> saved but walks after the flesh

SPIRITUAL MAN----> saved and walks after the Spirit

Would you say the 'Spiritual man 'mentioned above is simply the mature believer ?

 

[throughfaith]

2 Corinthians 5:18

And all things are of God,who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation.

The natural man is dead..in sin.

There's no mention of 'natural man ' in that verse?

 

[throughfaith]

I tried to define "Natural" and "Spiritual". I had the impression that you made "Natural" and "unsaved" the same. An unsaved man is natural, but a Christian can be "Natural" and still be saved. He is just erroneously using the wrong source.

But tell me. You used these verses to bring up Calvin, and by default then, his opponent Arminius. But the verses you brought up don't address security or loss of salvation. Why bring them up? The "Natural man" is the whole human race who came from Adam. 1st Corinthians 15:44-47 makes every man who ever lived, except one, "Natural". And "Natural" you stay until resurrection.

44 "It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven."

No I don't read in 1 cor 2.14 Paul is referring to a lost man .

 

[DiscipleA]

You don't need a big explanation to understand the spiritual man is the mature believer.

 

[jackrosie]

There's no mention of 'natural man ' in that verse?

But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God,for they are foolishness to him,nor can he know them,because they are spiritually discerned.
1 Corinthians 2:14

 

[tantalon]

The "natural man" is anyone not having his or her spirit regenerated. After this conversion, the indwelling Holy Spirit teaches, corrects and guides that person into spiritual truths. 1Cor. 2: 11-16. Thus, the "natural man" is that person who is NOT regenerated. Do not confuse the "flesh nature" within our bodies that remain even after regeneration of the believer. This flesh nature remains so as to determine OUR CHOICE OF ACTIONS, in which we grow spiritually or stagnate. Salvation is a done deal when converted, but SANCTIFICATION goes until we die or Jesus comes.

 

[throughfaith]

That should be "every believer still has the "flesh" (the old Adamic sin nature). Thus the believer who walks after the flesh is "carnal". But every believer is "spiritual" if he or she walks in the Spirit.

NATURAL MAN ----> does not have the indwelling Holy Spirit

CARNAL MAN----> saved but walks after the flesh

SPIRITUAL MAN----> saved and walks after the Spirit

I m seeing Natural and Carnal man same thing . Immature believer.

Spiritual man is the mature believer.
I think it would be a non sequitur in vese 14 to suddenly be referring to a lost man not able to understand the mature wisdom .

 

[throughfaith]

The "natural man" is anyone not having his or her spirit regenerated. After this conversion, the indwelling Holy Spirit teaches, corrects and guides that person into spiritual truths. 1Cor. 2: 11-16. Thus, the "natural man" is that person who is NOT regenerated. Do not confuse the "flesh nature" within our bodies that remain even after regeneration of the believer. This flesh nature remains so as to determine OUR CHOICE OF ACTIONS, in which we grow spiritually or stagnate. Salvation is a done deal when converted, but SANCTIFICATION goes until we die or Jesus comes.

How have you concluded from the text that the natural man is unregenerated? Especially as the ' spiritual man refers to the mature believer?

 

[throughfaith]

But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God,for they are foolishness to him,nor can he know them,because they are spiritually discerned.
1 Corinthians 2:14

This verse ,yes. How have you concluded that the ' natural man ' is unregenerated in the text ? especially as the' spiritual man' is referring to the mature believer?

 

[jackrosie]

This verse ,yes. How have you concluded that the ' natural man ' is unregenerated in the text ? especially as the' spiritual man' is referring to the mature believer?

I have explained the natural man is alienated from God....he can’t be regenerated until God chooses to save him,once we are saved,we are still in the flesh,but we have the Spirit of Christ....
We continue to die to our old self.our own sinful nature.