The Natural Man

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

DiscipleA

Active member
Apr 17, 2020
160
39
28
Northeast Pennsylvania USA
#61
1 Cor 2:14
English Standard Version
The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
But the unbeliever does not welcome what comes from God's Spirit, because it is foolishness to him; he is not able to understand it since it is evaluated spiritually.
 
May 19, 2020
3,050
1,275
113
#62
It does not mean the natural man cannot believe the Gospel... it is not a proof text for total inability.

How can a natural man believe the Gospel....without being saved?
 
May 19, 2020
3,050
1,275
113
#63
1 Cor 2:14
English Standard Version
The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
But the unbeliever does not welcome what comes from God's Spirit, because it is foolishness to him; he is not able to understand it since it is evaluated spiritually.

Self explanatory......a non believer alienated from God...they are still in darkness and sin.
 
L

lenna

Guest
#64
It took time for me to really grasp this...ironically it was a deep study on the flaws of Calvinism that I really got it!!!
right

you can make scripture say just about anything if you go looking for 'topical' verses and choose the ones that seem to build up your ideas

the application is actually the opposite. if a Pastor gives a topical sermon, then their emphasis is on that topic and that is not the best way to study. fine if you want to look up God's faithfulness and other of His attributes, but even then you have to temper it with everything else we can read about God in what He has revealed to us in His word

that's one reason I really prefer a Bible study to an outlined 'sermon' in which only part of the equation is often presented, but I am not bashing that in particular as many are encouraged that way. people go home and think they have the whole story but they do not. I am sure the Pastor does not intend to conclude it that way, but people just often do not study on their own or even ask questions

I don't think we can overemphasize how important it is to keep the context which means what came before and what came after and that often be way more that a few verses
 
E

EleventhHour

Guest
#66
Actually that verse is pretty straight forward. A non-spiritual person doesn't accept spiritual things.
The natural man CAN believe the Gospel and this proof text does not support total inability.
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
1,593
113
#68
All of the above. A natural man has human wisdom and a spiritual man has divine revelation.
The Natural / Carnal Man = type one . What's that ? Its the believer .
type 2) the spiritual man / mature / . What's that ? its the believer.
Whats the difference? They are both believers but Type 1) is not able to understand ( yet ) the wisdom Paul speaks among type 2 ) .
Both 1 and 2 have the Holy Spirit but the mature is able to discern the wisdom ( the meat) whilst type 2 is struggling because they are behaving carnally and still swayed by worldy wisdom . This is evidenced in every church anyone visited at anytime ever ! . We see believers still on milk ,not able to understand the meat .
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
1,593
113
#70
Oh....
1 Cor 3:3
New American Standard Bible
for you are still fleshly. For since there is jealousy and strife among you, are you not fleshly, and are you not walking like mere men?

New King James Version
for you are still carnal. For where there are envy, strife, and divisions among you, are you not carnal and behaving like mere men?

Berean Study Bible
for you are still worldly. For since there is jealousy and dissension among you, are you not worldly? Are you not walking in the way of man?

New Living Translation
for you are still controlled by your sinful nature. You are jealous of one another and quarrel with each other. Doesn’t that prove you are controlled by your sinful nature? Aren’t you living like people of the world?

Contemporary English Version
because you are not yet spiritual. You are jealous and argue with each other. This proves you are not spiritual and you are acting like the people of this world.


Still talking about quarreling and arguing.
sarkikos
1¶And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual,( mature ) but as unto carnal( natural ) , even as unto babes in Christ.
2I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able.
3For ye are yet carnal:( natural ) for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?
4For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I am of Apollos; are ye not carnal? (natural )
Would an example of a natural man be Pharaoh of Egypt?
Not in the context of 1.cor 2.14 .
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
1,593
113
#71
So how would you define "natural man?" An example might help, too.
Natural man is a believer indeely
2 Corinthians 5:18

And all things are of God,who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation.

The natural man is dead..in sin.
The man without the Holy Spirit is lost.
 
L

lenna

Guest
#72
I don't know why people will assume they cannot be wrong when they try to interpret or even just understand the Bible

the net is loaded with articles that will tell you how to study scripture and some are better than others. here is a simple and concise article from 'Got Questions' that explains why a cursory reading or picking and choosing scripture out of context is both wrong and even harmful

Question: "What is the proper way to study the Bible?"

Answer: Knowing how to study the Bible is important, because determining the meaning of Scripture is one of the most important tasks a believer has in this life. God does not tell us that we must simply read the Bible. We must study it and handle it correctly (2 Timothy 2:15). Studying the Scriptures is hard work. A cursory or brief scanning of Scripture can sometimes yield very wrong conclusions. Therefore, it is crucial to understand several principles for determining the correct meaning of Scripture.

First, the one who would study the Bible must pray and ask the Holy Spirit to impart understanding, for that is one of His functions. “But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come” (John 16:13). Just as the Holy Spirit guided the apostles in the writing of the New Testament, He also guides us in the understanding of Scripture. The Bible is God’s book, and we need to ask Him what it means. If you are a Christian, the author of Scripture—the Holy Spirit—dwells inside you, and He wants you to understand what He wrote.

Second, to study the Bible properly, we cannot pull a verse out of the verses that surround it and try to determine the meaning of the verse outside of the context. We should always read the surrounding verses and chapters to discern the context. While all of Scripture comes from God (2 Timothy 3:16; 2 Peter 1:21), God used men to write it down. These men had a theme in mind, a purpose for writing, and a specific issue they were addressing. To study the Bible, we should understand the background of the book we are studying: it’s helpful to know who wrote the book, to whom it was written, when it was written, and why it was written. Also, we should take care to let the text speak for itself. Sometimes people will assign their own meanings to words in order to get the interpretation they desire.

Third, to study the Bible properly, we should not think of ourselves as totally independent in our analysis of the text. It is arrogant to think that we cannot gain understanding through the lifelong work of others who have studied Scripture. Some people, in error, approach the Bible with the idea that they will depend on the Holy Spirit alone and they will discover all the hidden truths of Scripture. Christ, in the giving of the Holy Spirit, has given people with spiritual gifts to the body of Christ. One of these spiritual gifts is that of teaching (Ephesians 4:11–12; 1 Corinthians 12:28). These teachers are given by the Lord to help us to correctly understand and obey Scripture. It is always wise to study the Bible with other believers, assisting each other in understanding and applying the truth of God’s Word.

So, in summary, the proper way to study the Bible is to prayerfully and humbly rely on the Holy Spirit to give us understanding; study verses in their context, recognizing that the Bible explains itself; and respect the efforts of other Christians, past and present, who have also sought to properly study the Bible. Remember, God is the author of the Bible, and He wants us to understand it.
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
1,593
113
#73
You don't need a big explanation to understand the spiritual man is the mature believer.
And the ' natural man ' is the immature believer . Carnal and ' natural man are the same ( its a synonym) . They are immature believers .
 

DiscipleA

Active member
Apr 17, 2020
160
39
28
Northeast Pennsylvania USA
#74
The Natural / Carnal Man = type one . What's that ? Its the believer .
See post #55. A carnal man is a fleshly, worldly, still controlled by your sinful nature, not yet spiritual man.

Not in the context of 1.cor 2.14 .
Pharaoh was an unbeliever. He didn't accept the things of the spirit. And he had like...10 chances.
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
1,593
113
#75
I have explained the natural man is alienated from God....he can’t be regenerated until God chooses to save him,once we are saved,we are still in the flesh,but we have the Spirit of Christ....
We continue to die to our old self.our own sinful nature.
We will always have this body of death , we still have the " natural man ' . The Goal is ' the spiritual man '
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
1,593
113
#76
See post #55. A carnal man is a fleshly, worldly, still controlled by your sinful nature, not yet spiritual man.


Pharaoh was an unbeliever. He didn't accept the things of the spirit. And he had like...10 chances.
in the context of 1 cor 3 . The Carnal believer is unable to understand the wisdom Paul speaks among the mature .
Pharaoh was resistant to God and hardened his own heart ,before God further hardened his heart . Romans 1 explains this also .
 

DiscipleA

Active member
Apr 17, 2020
160
39
28
Northeast Pennsylvania USA
#77
I don't know why people will assume they cannot be wrong when they try to interpret or even just understand the Bible

the net is loaded with articles that will tell you how to study scripture and some are better than others. here is a simple and concise article from 'Got Questions' that explains why a cursory reading or picking and choosing scripture out of context is both wrong and even harmful

Question: "What is the proper way to study the Bible?"

Answer: Knowing how to study the Bible is important, because determining the meaning of Scripture is one of the most important tasks a believer has in this life. God does not tell us that we must simply read the Bible. We must study it and handle it correctly (2 Timothy 2:15). Studying the Scriptures is hard work. A cursory or brief scanning of Scripture can sometimes yield very wrong conclusions. Therefore, it is crucial to understand several principles for determining the correct meaning of Scripture.

First, the one who would study the Bible must pray and ask the Holy Spirit to impart understanding, for that is one of His functions. “But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come” (John 16:13). Just as the Holy Spirit guided the apostles in the writing of the New Testament, He also guides us in the understanding of Scripture. The Bible is God’s book, and we need to ask Him what it means. If you are a Christian, the author of Scripture—the Holy Spirit—dwells inside you, and He wants you to understand what He wrote.

Second, to study the Bible properly, we cannot pull a verse out of the verses that surround it and try to determine the meaning of the verse outside of the context. We should always read the surrounding verses and chapters to discern the context. While all of Scripture comes from God (2 Timothy 3:16; 2 Peter 1:21), God used men to write it down. These men had a theme in mind, a purpose for writing, and a specific issue they were addressing. To study the Bible, we should understand the background of the book we are studying: it’s helpful to know who wrote the book, to whom it was written, when it was written, and why it was written. Also, we should take care to let the text speak for itself. Sometimes people will assign their own meanings to words in order to get the interpretation they desire.

Third, to study the Bible properly, we should not think of ourselves as totally independent in our analysis of the text. It is arrogant to think that we cannot gain understanding through the lifelong work of others who have studied Scripture. Some people, in error, approach the Bible with the idea that they will depend on the Holy Spirit alone and they will discover all the hidden truths of Scripture. Christ, in the giving of the Holy Spirit, has given people with spiritual gifts to the body of Christ. One of these spiritual gifts is that of teaching (Ephesians 4:11–12; 1 Corinthians 12:28). These teachers are given by the Lord to help us to correctly understand and obey Scripture. It is always wise to study the Bible with other believers, assisting each other in understanding and applying the truth of God’s Word.

So, in summary, the proper way to study the Bible is to prayerfully and humbly rely on the Holy Spirit to give us understanding; study verses in their context, recognizing that the Bible explains itself; and respect the efforts of other Christians, past and present, who have also sought to properly study the Bible. Remember, God is the author of the Bible, and He wants us to understand it.
Way off topic. It's easy enough to accuse someone of taking scriptures out of context or not knowing the Bible, but that's just an accusation with no suggestion to any alternative idea.
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
1,593
113
#78
1 cor 2:14
New International Version
The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit.

New Living Translation
But people who aren’t spiritual can’t receive these truths from God’s Spirit. It all sounds foolish to them and they can’t understand it, for only those who are spiritual can understand what the Spirit means.

English Standard Version
The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned.

Christian Standard Bible
But the person without the Spirit does not receive what comes from God's Spirit, because it is foolishness to him; he is not able to understand it since it is evaluated spiritually.

Good News Translation
Whoever does not have the Spirit cannot receive the gifts that come from God's Spirit. Such a person really does not understand them, and they seem to be nonsense, because their value can be judged only on a spiritual basis.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
But the unbeliever does not welcome what comes from God's Spirit, because it is foolishness to him; he is not able to understand it since it is evaluated spiritually.
ahh the hall of shame biased translations.
KJV
But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
NKJV
But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
NASB
But a natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised.


and the natural man doth not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for to him they are foolishness, and he is not able to know them, because spiritually they are discerned;
WEB
But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness to him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
Natural =psychikos
 
May 19, 2020
3,050
1,275
113
#79
We will always have this body of death , we still have the " natural man ' . The Goal is ' the spiritual man '

The natural man does not have the spirit of God living in them.
The spiritual man produces the fruit of the Spirit.
The spiritual man is one who is characterised by the leading of the HolybSpirit.
The Bible encourages believers to let the Spirit lead them.
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
1,593
113
#80
See post #55. A carnal man is a fleshly, worldly, still controlled by your sinful nature, not yet spiritual man.


Pharaoh was an unbeliever. He didn't accept the things of the spirit. And he had like...10 chances.
Pharaoh was not around to hear Paul speak about the wisdom Paul spoke to the mature believers . So pharaoh or anyone before Pauls conversion is irrelevant to this Op .