The natural man

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ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
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#1
What steps does the natural man/woman have to take to become a spiritual man/woman?
 

luigi

Junior Member
Dec 6, 2015
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#3
What steps does the natural man/woman have to take to become a spiritual man/woman?
Commence with humility.

Luke 18:13 And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner. 14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.
 

Corban

Well-known member
Jun 11, 2020
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#4
What steps does the natural man/woman have to take to become a spiritual man/woman?
May I ask which scripture you are considering? But, to answer your question as it stands the natural man does not change into a spiritual man. The reason is that the use of the concepts addresses ORIGIN.

The word "Natural" means that the object has its ORIGIN in NATURE. In the case of a man, since all men come from the womb, we are all NATURAL MEN. The only reasonable end to this is death because in that ORIGIN, or BIRTH, you inherited Adam's corruption. There is not way to change this. God let's it die.

Likewise, the word "Spiritual" means that the object has it's ORIGIN in the Holy Spirit. We see this in John 3:6. The human spirit is born again - not the soul and the body. God's salvation process begins with the human spirit, where God makes His home, and then, by a process of transformation, the Holy Spirit changes the SOUL. The soul of a man is made of mind, emotions and will. These are changed (e.g. Rom.12:2), so that they tend to take orders from God Who is a Spirit in your human spirit. The resulting thoughts (mind), feelings (emotions) and decisions (will) are thus SPIRITUAL. They had their ORIGIN in the human spirit led by God's Spirit. An example is 1 Corinthians 2:14; "But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned." The word "KNOW" pertains to the MIND. "Know-ledge" is a function of the mind. So the unregeneate man, the man who comes from the womb, cannot KNOW the things that have their ORIGIN in the Spirit. But a man who is born again, he who has had a new and spiritual birth, is capable of understanding the things "received" from the Spirit of God.

Then, one day your "Natural body" will die and return to the elements. At length, God will recover your body in resurrection. But this body is not resurrected via a womb. It is made by the Holy Spirit (Rom.8:11; 1st Cor.15:44; 2nd Cor.5:1-3).
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
3,538
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#5
What steps does the natural man/woman have to take to become a spiritual man/woman?
Natural in what way ? Spiritual in what way. The bible says that we as believers are still fleshy / natural. We still have the flesh and can behave this way . This will be the case until Rom 8.23 happens. What do you mean by Spiritual ? There's plenty of folks who call themselves spiritual but are atheists. Did you mean ' full grown ' ? The bible contrasts the Natural / Fleshy Christian with the mature/ Spiritual/ full grown .
Of course in Christendom certain catch phrases and words have been hijacked and turned into doctrines to support a system of theology .
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
3,538
782
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#6
May I ask which scripture you are considering? But, to answer your question as it stands the natural man does not change into a spiritual man. The reason is that the use of the concepts addresses ORIGIN.

The word "Natural" means that the object has its ORIGIN in NATURE. In the case of a man, since all men come from the womb, we are all NATURAL MEN. The only reasonable end to this is death because in that ORIGIN, or BIRTH, you inherited Adam's corruption. There is not way to change this. God let's it die.

Likewise, the word "Spiritual" means that the object has it's ORIGIN in the Holy Spirit. We see this in John 3:6. The human spirit is born again - not the soul and the body. God's salvation process begins with the human spirit, where God makes His home, and then, by a process of transformation, the Holy Spirit changes the SOUL. The soul of a man is made of mind, emotions and will. These are changed (e.g. Rom.12:2), so that they tend to take orders from God Who is a Spirit in your human spirit. The resulting thoughts (mind), feelings (emotions) and decisions (will) are thus SPIRITUAL. They had their ORIGIN in the human spirit led by God's Spirit. An example is 1 Corinthians 2:14; "But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned." The word "KNOW" pertains to the MIND. "Know-ledge" is a function of the mind. So the unregeneate man, the man who comes from the womb, cannot KNOW the things that have their ORIGIN in the Spirit. But a man who is born again, he who has had a new and spiritual birth, is capable of understanding the things "received" from the Spirit of God.

Then, one day your "Natural body" will die and return to the elements. At length, God will recover your body in resurrection. But this body is not resurrected via a womb. It is made by the Holy Spirit (Rom.8:11; 1st Cor.15:44; 2nd Cor.5:1-3).
In 1cor 3
1¶And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ.

Are you taking this to mean that Paul could not speak unto these believers as to ones that are saved and have the Holy Spirit ?
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
3,538
782
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#7
What steps does the natural man/woman have to take to become a spiritual man/woman?
If you mean how do we become full grown in Christ ,then there's lots of scriptures to help us understand how we grow in him .
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
4,786
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#8


1 Corinthians 2:14:)
This scripture points out the description of the natural man/woman before they are born again. How, then, would you think that they become able to discern spiritual things?
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
4,786
710
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#9
Commence with humility.

Luke 18:13 And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner. 14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.
So do you believe all the natural man has to do to be spiritual minded, is to humble himself?
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
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782
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#10
So do you believe all the natural man has to do to be spiritual minded, is to humble himself?
Do you have any other Scripture where the phrase ' the natural man ' means man that hasn't been regenerated?
Seems like a lot of weight to place on one single verse ?
A more accurate description of unsaved is .
Eph 2
the children of disobedience:

should walk in them.
11¶Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
12That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:

Enemies

ect
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
32,187
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#11
This scripture points out the description of the natural man/woman before they are born again. How, then, would you think that they become able to discern spiritual things?
Will Ephesians 2:1-10 suffice?

And you were dead in your trespasses and sins, in which you used to walk when you conformed to the ways of this world and of the ruler of the power of the air, the spirit who is now at work in the sons of disobedience. All of us also lived among them at one time, fulfilling the cravings of our flesh and indulging its desires and thoughts. Like the rest, we were by nature children of wrath.

But because of His great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in our trespasses. It is by grace you have been saved! And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with Him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus, in order that in the coming ages He might display the surpassing riches of His grace, demonstrated by His kindness to us in Christ Jesus.

For it is by grace you have been saved through faith, and this not from yourselves; it is the gift of God, not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God’s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance as our way of life.

Though I see you have already given an answer in a previous post...

And having posted this, I see after the fact that @throughfaith has also quoted from Ephesians 2 :)
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
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782
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#12
This scripture points out the description of the natural man/woman before they are born again. How, then, would you think that they become able to discern spiritual things?
We have a description of those who walked with Jesus not believe the resurrection when it happened ? including Peter . So much for perseverance of the saints and ' judging all things ' and understanding the ' spiritual things ' . They did not understand the death burial and resurrection when Jesus repeatedly told them . They were his sheep. They called the resurrection a ' tale ' . Can we be saved today by not Believing the resurrection?
And if you say Romans 1 .23 is a description of born again believes they are also not judging all things and are judged of no one ( 1 cor 2.15 )There not understanding the spiritual things . ?
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
4,786
710
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#13
May I ask which scripture you are considering? But, to answer your question as it stands the natural man does not change into a spiritual man. The reason is that the use of the concepts addresses ORIGIN.

The word "Natural" means that the object has its ORIGIN in NATURE. In the case of a man, since all men come from the womb, we are all NATURAL MEN. The only reasonable end to this is death because in that ORIGIN, or BIRTH, you inherited Adam's corruption. There is not way to change this. God let's it die.

Likewise, the word "Spiritual" means that the object has it's ORIGIN in the Holy Spirit. We see this in John 3:6. The human spirit is born again - not the soul and the body. God's salvation process begins with the human spirit, where God makes His home, and then, by a process of transformation, the Holy Spirit changes the SOUL. The soul of a man is made of mind, emotions and will. These are changed (e.g. Rom.12:2), so that they tend to take orders from God Who is a Spirit in your human spirit. The resulting thoughts (mind), feelings (emotions) and decisions (will) are thus SPIRITUAL. They had their ORIGIN in the human spirit led by God's Spirit. An example is 1 Corinthians 2:14; "But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned." The word "KNOW" pertains to the MIND. "Know-ledge" is a function of the mind. So the unregeneate man, the man who comes from the womb, cannot KNOW the things that have their ORIGIN in the Spirit. But a man who is born again, he who has had a new and spiritual birth, is capable of understanding the things "received" from the Spirit of God.

Then, one day your "Natural body" will die and return to the elements. At length, God will recover your body in resurrection. But this body is not resurrected via a womb. It is made by the Holy Spirit (Rom.8:11; 1st Cor.15:44; 2nd Cor.5:1-3).
You have established by John 3:6 that the natural man has to be born again, before he can be able to discern spiritual things, but what what process does he have to go through to be born again, preferably, with scripture.? Rom 12:2, In verse 12:1, are the people that Paul is instructing, his brethren? Are his "brethren" the same brethren in Rom 1:7, All that be in Rome that are beloved of God, and are called to be saints?

Does the unregenerate man have to do anything to get reborn spiritually?
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
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710
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#14
Natural in what way ? Spiritual in what way. The bible says that we as believers are still fleshy / natural. We still have the flesh and can behave this way . This will be the case until Rom 8.23 happens. What do you mean by Spiritual ? There's plenty of folks who call themselves spiritual but are atheists. Did you mean ' full grown ' ? The bible contrasts the Natural / Fleshy Christian with the mature/ Spiritual/ full grown .
Of course in Christendom certain catch phrases and words have been hijacked and turned into doctrines to support a system of theology .
Natural in what way? unregenerate. Spiritual in what way? regenerated.

Before we are regenerated we only have one nature, and that is the sinful inherited nature of Adam

After we are regenerated we have two natures, the sinful nature of Adam, and the spiritual nature of the indwelling of the Holy Spirit., and these two battle within us until die our natural death, then Rom 8:23 follows.

I do not hijack (whatever that means), but harmonize the scriptures. You should try it sometime.
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
4,786
710
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#15
Will Ephesians 2:1-10 suffice?

And you were dead in your trespasses and sins, in which you used to walk when you conformed to the ways of this world and of the ruler of the power of the air, the spirit who is now at work in the sons of disobedience. All of us also lived among them at one time, fulfilling the cravings of our flesh and indulging its desires and thoughts. Like the rest, we were by nature children of wrath.

But because of His great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in our trespasses. It is by grace you have been saved! And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with Him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus, in order that in the coming ages He might display the surpassing riches of His grace, demonstrated by His kindness to us in Christ Jesus.

For it is by grace you have been saved through faith, and this not from yourselves; it is the gift of God, not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God’s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance as our way of life.

Though I see you have already given an answer in a previous post...

And having posted this, I see after the fact that @throughfaith has also quoted from Ephesians 2 :)
You have the answer hat I was looking for, except in verse 8, I believe the "faith" is not man/woman's faith, but is Jesus's faith, which harmonizes with Gal 2:16.
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
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#16
Natural in what way? unregenerate. Spiritual in what way? regenerated.

Before we are regenerated we only have one nature, and that is the sinful inherited nature of Adam

After we are regenerated we have two natures, the sinful nature of Adam, and the spiritual nature of the indwelling of the Holy Spirit., and these two battle within us until die our natural death, then Rom 8:23 follows.

I do not hijack (whatever that means), but harmonize the scriptures. You should try it sometime.
Could you put that in scriptures please . That was a loaded statement.
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
4,786
710
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#17
We have a description of those who walked with Jesus not believe the resurrection when it happened ? including Peter . So much for perseverance of the saints and ' judging all things ' and understanding the ' spiritual things ' . They did not understand the death burial and resurrection when Jesus repeatedly told them . They were his sheep. They called the resurrection a ' tale ' . Can we be saved today by not Believing the resurrection?
And if you say Romans 1 .23 is a description of born again believes they are also not judging all things and are judged of no one ( 1 cor 2.15 )There not understanding the spiritual things . ?
You are trying to make Peter out to be the natural man described in 1 Cor 2:14, and that will not hold water. Peter was regenerated with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. There are spiritual things contained in the scriptures that I cannot understand, and I am fully persuaded that I have been regenerated.

Yes, Romans 1:23 is referencing the regenerated man, as a matter of fact, the whole chapter is referencing regenerate people..

You have mentioned 1 Cor 2:15, why not consider verse 16 as well?
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
3,538
782
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#19
You are trying to make Peter out to be the natural man described in 1 Cor 2:14, and that will not hold water. Peter was regenerated with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. There are spiritual things contained in the scriptures that I cannot understand, and I am fully persuaded that I have been regenerated.

Yes, Romans 1:23 is referencing the regenerated man, as a matter of fact, the whole chapter is referencing regenerate people..

You have mentioned 1 Cor 2:15, why not consider verse 16 as well?
Ok so correct me if I'm wrong you believe Peter was born again/ regenerated , indwellt no less with the Holy spirit before he believed ? Then was unable to understand the Gospel ( The death , burial and resurrection) , denies he even knows Jesus then subsequently does not believe in the resurrection ( None of the followers did , Were they all born again , indwelled by the Holy Spirit until the day of redemption also ? ) Peter then goes on to not understand that Holy Spirit is for the gentiles also until 10 years after Acts 2 And even after this Paul has to straighten him out by ' judging him a hypocrite against the gentiles. This is supposed to be ' understand the things of the Spirit ? Someone who judges all things and is judged of no one ? ( 1cor 2,15 ) Perseverance of the saints ? The spiritual man ?
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
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#20
1 Cor 2:14, Rom 7:18-25.
I see one reference to ' natural man ' in 1 cor 2.14 . But not in Romans 7 . No Doubt you are utilising the deductive method here ? The bible usually refers to what is bad as contrary to natural .