The natural man
- Thread starter ForestGreenCook
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
To borrow from another post :
The word "Natural" means that the object has its ORIGIN in NATURE. In the case of a man, since all men come from the womb, we are all NATURAL MEN. This is my point . We are all Natural man . We didn't lose this After regeneration. We are still in this body of death. This is what Paul is referring to in 1 cor 2 .
The word "Natural" means that the object has its ORIGIN in NATURE. In the case of a man, since all men come from the womb, we are all NATURAL MEN. This is my point . We are all Natural man . We didn't lose this After regeneration. We are still in this body of death. This is what Paul is referring to in 1 cor 2 .
A Christian, like all men, is made of three parts (Gen.2:7; 1st Thess.5:23). During his past life, all his thoughts, decisions and feelings were dictated by the flesh. Then he is born again and the spirit is occupied by the Holy Spirit. Now, two sources, the flesh and the spirit call for loyalty, and an ongoing battle ensues within the Christian. Galatians 5:17 says; "For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would". The "babe in Christ" will nearly always lose and the man will continue to obey the dictates of the flesh. But by a diet of good spiritual food, good doctrine and exercise, the Christian starts to mature, and his spirit wins more and more battles. But if the Christian does not mature, his action, even after years, are still CARNAL - that is, having their ORIGIN in the flesh.
He is still a Christian. He is still a child of God. His rebirth is valid and cannot be undone, but he remains "a babe in Christ". And because the flesh is all-pervading, anything that has its ORIGIN in the spirit via the Holy Spirit, is met with the same lack of reaction that you get when you try to explain calculus to a 10 year-old. Paul could not reveal things that had their ORIGIN in the Spirit because they had no capacity, being fleshly, to cope with it.
He is still a Christian. He is still a child of God. His rebirth is valid and cannot be undone, but he remains "a babe in Christ". And because the flesh is all-pervading, anything that has its ORIGIN in the spirit via the Holy Spirit, is met with the same lack of reaction that you get when you try to explain calculus to a 10 year-old. Paul could not reveal things that had their ORIGIN in the Spirit because they had no capacity, being fleshly, to cope with it.
-
1
- Show all
Probably the best answer to this is John 12:24. Christ is a grain of Wheat. He dies, and/or was buried into death. This death is not a cessation of function in the case of a seed, but a release of its LIFE. And from one grain becomes an ear. All the thus produced grains of wheat are exactly like the original grain. they have the same nature and LIFE. So the process of being born again is simply Christ being sown into your spirit. 1st Peter 1:18-25 shows the whole process:
18 "Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;
19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:
20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,
21 Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.
22 Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently:
23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
24 For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away:
25 But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you."
"Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust."
18 "Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;
19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:
20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,
21 Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.
22 Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently:
23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
24 For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away:
25 But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you."
- Man is a sinner and lost. He was once God's property but the man subjected himself to another master. He needed to be redeemed
- It needed to be a Man, but a perfect man without sin Who redeemed him
- The connection is made by faith, and this faith is "BY Him" - a gift from God (Eph.2:8)
- The faith produces the rebirth, as explained by John 12:24 above - via a seed (the same as in the natural realm)
- But the faith "comes from hearing", so some man spoke, or pointed to the truth and the Person of Christ - the gospel
"Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust."
All faith comes FROM God.
Romans 10:17 So faith comes from hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ. God give us the ears to hear
Hebrews 12:2 fixing our eyes on Jesus, the author and perfecter of faith HE is the AUTHOR of our faith......we are not the author
Romans 12:3 For through the grace given to me I say to everyone among you not to think more highly of himself than he ought to think; but to think so as to have sound judgment, as God has allotted to each a measure of faith.
Therer are many verses that say the same thing.....like in Eph where we are told that faith is a gift from God and it is not of ourselves.
Romans 10:17 So faith comes from hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ. God give us the ears to hear
Hebrews 12:2 fixing our eyes on Jesus, the author and perfecter of faith HE is the AUTHOR of our faith......we are not the author
Romans 12:3 For through the grace given to me I say to everyone among you not to think more highly of himself than he ought to think; but to think so as to have sound judgment, as God has allotted to each a measure of faith.
Therer are many verses that say the same thing.....like in Eph where we are told that faith is a gift from God and it is not of ourselves.
By your text example one must die to bring forth life. fruit. You mention in you 5 steps, in particular step 3 stating that the connection to being born again, by the natural man, is made by "faith".
My understanding of 1 Cor is that the natural man only has faith in man, and his accomplishments, and he does not have spiritual faith, which is a fruit of the Spirit. You referenced Eph 2:8, in which "faith" in this verse, I believe, has reference to Jesus's faith, which I believe harmonizes with Gal 2:16.
Is not the natural man "spiritually dead" and unable to respond to his spiritual rebirth? at the time that he is quickened with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, in Eph 2:1.
Does not 1 Pet 1:18-25 speak of the elect mentioned in verse 2, and not the natural man that cannot believe in the things of the Spirit, as indicated in verse 21?
My understanding of 1 Cor is that the natural man only has faith in man, and his accomplishments, and he does not have spiritual faith, which is a fruit of the Spirit. You referenced Eph 2:8, in which "faith" in this verse, I believe, has reference to Jesus's faith, which I believe harmonizes with Gal 2:16.
Is not the natural man "spiritually dead" and unable to respond to his spiritual rebirth? at the time that he is quickened with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, in Eph 2:1.
Does not 1 Pet 1:18-25 speak of the elect mentioned in verse 2, and not the natural man that cannot believe in the things of the Spirit, as indicated in verse 21?
Thanks for the reply and query. May I point you to point #3 - that faith is a gift. Would that answer your question? I agree that the natural man is destitute. He is similar to a snowball on a slope. He/she can only go downward and gather momentum. It needs an act of God to change that downward direction. So we see Peter in Matthew 16. He had to receive a vision from the Father to recognize who Christ was.