THE NEED TO BE BAPTIZED BY WATER & THE SPIRIT

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May 19, 2020
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#41
Then we are Baptized into our own life and John's Baptism was unnecessary. We can forego the straight way to God John provided because I was born


How do we get baptised into our own life?

You were born?
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
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#42
The Greek word translates to whelm. Baptism in water over whelms the body. Dead in the water comes to mind. 😇

Baptism in the Spirit is the same as far as over whelmed, but is alive in the Spirit. When Holy Spirit rises up through you to speak, it’s overwhelming power.
 
May 19, 2020
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#43
The Greek word translates to whelm. Baptism in water over whelms the body. Dead in the water comes to mind. 😇

Baptism in the Spirit is the same as far as over whelmed, but is alive in the Spirit. When Holy Spirit rises up through you to speak, it’s overwhelming power.

Thank God..at last someone I understand..

It is overwhelming power and no one can stop it.
 

EleventhHour

Well-known member
Nov 11, 2019
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#44
If it were the fluids in the womb it makes what Jesus said to Nicodemus redundant. Nicodemus thought He was talking about the womb. Jesus didn't say ' you don't have to return to the womb the ritual immersion in water will symbolize the womb.
Everyone must be born again. If it were birth from the womb why even mention something that no one chooses nor avoid. One must be born to be saved doesn't make sense to me.
Jesus is drawing an analogy for Nicodemus.

Physical birth and Spiritual birth

You need to read it without adding in your lens of Baptism.
 
Mar 28, 2016
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#45
You sound more like someone who has demon oppression who stays obsessed and angry when they start riding you .. Peace, be still
Anger blinds the minds of fools. . who say there is no God in their hearts .

I did not know someone was riding on my opinions? LOL

I am not that kind of angry . As a fallen creation, in our anger we are not to sin or when the Sun rises nothing has changed.

Demon obsession comes by lying wonders .They are the kind that say; "Did God (wondering) say you shall not die? Look at me an live! "

I think sometimes when mankind is angry at God they naturally look for error in others.... trying to remove a speck from ones opinion when they have a log in their own perception. We must be careful how we hear. Like the quote in Luke 18 makes me wonder when he comes on the the last day will he find faith, or mankind wondering after their personals experrnced .The self-edifiers .

Why beleive the unseen will or wondering, marveling rather than faith. . believing words of truth .Not did he really say?

Luke 11:29 And when the people were gathered thick together, he began to say, This is an evil generation: they seek a sign; and there shall no sign be given it, but the sign of Jonas the prophet.

No such thing as a "sign gift" .Spiritual gifts, yes . Seen no. Revealed yes

John 4:48 Then said Jesus unto him, Except ye see signs and wonders, ye will not believe.

The proof in in the words understood. . not the wondering . Jesus the amazing one is not a circus seal .No need to wonder.

John 6:30 They said therefore unto him, What sign shewest thou then, that we may see, and believe thee? what dost thou work?
 

bojack

Well-known member
Dec 16, 2019
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#46
Anger blinds the minds of fools. . who say there is no God in their hearts .

I did not know someone was riding on my opinions? LOL

I am not that kind of angry . As a fallen creation, in our anger we are not to sin or when the Sun rises nothing has changed.

Demon obsession comes by lying wonders .They are the kind that say; "Did God (wondering) say you shall not die? Look at me an live! "

I think sometimes when mankind is angry at God they naturally look for error in others.... trying to remove a speck from ones opinion when they have a log in their own perception. We must be careful how we hear. Like the quote in Luke 18 makes me wonder when he comes on the the last day will he find faith, or mankind wondering after their personals experrnced .The self-edifiers .

Why beleive the unseen will or wondering, marveling rather than faith. . believing words of truth .Not did he really say?

Luke 11:29 And when the people were gathered thick together, he began to say, This is an evil generation: they seek a sign; and there shall no sign be given it, but the sign of Jonas the prophet.

No such thing as a "sign gift" .Spiritual gifts, yes . Seen no. Revealed yes

John 4:48 Then said Jesus unto him, Except ye see signs and wonders, ye will not believe.

The proof in in the words understood. . not the wondering . Jesus the amazing one is not a circus seal .No need to wonder.

John 6:30 They said therefore unto him, What sign shewest thou then, that we may see, and believe thee? what dost thou work?
You seem to spend a lot of time and derive a lot of gratification judging others worship of God .. There seems to be plenty others share your specific ministry .. Like there's not more important ministry left undone ..
 
Mar 28, 2016
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#47
Your starting to obsess on signs and wonders garee
The reference to that baptism as a shadow(H20) is when Arron's two sons offered strange fire as a lying wonder. It is found in John 3:25 . John the last Levi under the old Levitical order .The order was made new by Jesus coming in the Spirit of Melchezedek the High priest continually with beginning or end. , sending out prophets as apostles. Men, woman and children alike from all the nations.

Challenged by the law the lawyers saying Jesus is from the tribe of Judah. What's he doing baptizes men and woman a function of a priest? That's the foundation the old testament law . Not some kind of new testament oral tradition as a sign of new birth .But a new desire to serve as those who plant the seed in a hope he will give new spirit life. .
 
Mar 28, 2016
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#48
You seem to spend a lot of time and derive a lot of gratification judging others worship of God .. There seems to be plenty others share your specific ministry .. Like there's not more important ministry left undone ..
Sorry if offended.

Only God can see into the hearts of all of mankind and move them according to the good purpose of his will . Calling a person a fool endangers oneself. Christians can do foolish things like the foolish Galatians, in unbelief. But they are called back and comforted by the same hearing of faith they ignored. .

It not my intention to endanger anyone. I would suggest putting on the whole armor of God on. It works to protect the faith that works from within new creatures. . giving us a living hope that he promises will not disappoint us.

2 Corinthians 4:7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.
 
Feb 11, 2020
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#49
I lean toward baptism as what Jesus was referring to when he said you must be born of water and of the spirit.

If I were to find a reference in ancient literature at the time of Christ that used the phrase "born of water" to refer to natural child birth I might change my mind or see that it could be a possibility. Until then it does not seem logical that Jesus would invent such a phrase and that the disciples would know what he meant.

However we do know that they were knee deep in the subject of baptism in water, and that since the first day they met Jesus it had been part of their daily discussions and religious concepts. They themselves were involved in baptizing people and if it was not a cultural norm to refer to natural birth as "born of water, by water etc" then their first thoughts would be that Jesus was referring to the spiritual significance behind baptism which they preached and focused on at this time.

The amniotic fluid may make you think of water but I am not so sure that the disciples would think of this. Unless you can find that it was a cultural norm to speak like that.

If anyone has seen evidence in ancient literature from the time of Christ or before where any phrase similar to "born of water" was used to refer to natural birth it would be strong evidence that Jesus might have meant that. Otherwise it would seem that Jesus would know that his disciples would think he was talking about baptism and he would have used another phrase like born of the womb and born of the spirit.

5Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God? 6This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth. 7For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. 8And there are three that bear witness in earth, the spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.

Thinking about 1 John 5:6. How did Jesus come?

1. By water = born in the flesh.
2. By blood = in Spirit after his blood was shed on the cross. John 14:18

So, “water and Spirit” in John 3:5 represents Christ. Born of Christ.

Another similar possibility:

”Water and Spirit” in Greek transliterated is “hydatos kai pneumatos”, or ”water and wind”. Two metaphors for the Spirit. So born of water and wind simply means born of the Spirit, which is why water is not repeated in John 3:8.
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
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#50
Water baptism is symbolic of Holy Spirit baptism. Holy Spirit baptism is necessary and precedes water baptism. Water baptism is a demonstration of obedience and submission to Christ as Lord.

Far too many folks today think they can become saved without repentance and submission to Christ as Lord. No repentance and submission no salvation no matter how many times you are water baptized.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 

Benadam

Active member
Aug 14, 2019
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#51
Jesus is drawing an analogy for Nicodemus.

Physical birth and Spiritual birth

You need to read it without adding in your lens of Baptism.
You haven't even addressed my post. Now I read NO WHERE IN THE BIBLE IS...unless one has plumbed it's entire depth that is ignorant and arrogant.
Try following your own advise.
 

Benadam

Active member
Aug 14, 2019
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#52
The Greek word translates to whelm. Baptism in water over whelms the body. Dead in the water comes to mind. 😇

Baptism in the Spirit is the same as far as over whelmed, but is alive in the Spirit. When Holy Spirit rises up through you to speak, it’s overwhelming power.
but there is one Baptism not two.
 

EleventhHour

Well-known member
Nov 11, 2019
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#53
You haven't even addressed my post. Now I read NO WHERE IN THE BIBLE IS...unless one has plumbed it's entire depth that is ignorant and arrogant.
Try following your own advise.
You think Jesus was addressing the sprinkling of water on babies at the baptismal fount?
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
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#54
but there is one Baptism not two.
In Matthew 3:11, we read - I baptize you with water for repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I, and I am not fit to remove His sandals; He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.

Again, in Acts 1:5, we read - for John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now. *TWO SEPARATE BAPTISMS.*

By saying ONE baptism in Ephesians 4:5, Paul did not mean that there is only one baptism that exists, such as water baptism but not Spirit baptism or Spirit baptism but not water baptism and this one baptism (Spirit baptism) places us into the body of Christ.

Ephesians 4:5 - one Lord, one faith, one baptism.

1 Corinthians 12:13 - For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body--whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free--and have all been made to drink into one Spirit.
 

Benadam

Active member
Aug 14, 2019
957
212
43
#55
Water baptism is symbolic of Holy Spirit baptism. Holy Spirit baptism is necessary and precedes water baptism. Water baptism is a demonstration of obedience and submission to Christ as Lord.

Far too many folks today think they can become saved without repentance and submission to Christ as Lord. No repentance and submission no salvation no matter how many times you are water baptized.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
Jesus was Baptized with water then the Holy Spirit descended on Him. He was Baptized once. There aren't two Baptisms.
You think Jesus was addressing the sprinkling of water on babies at the baptismal fount?
No, that was the Church addressing the needs of converts in places where water is scarce and there isn't enough to immerse just enough to sprinkle. Would you tell that community they must risk their lives to Baptize?

As far as babies go I wouldn't Baptize them either if I denied it's power and believed it was just a symbol.
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
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#56
Jesus was Baptized with water then the Holy Spirit descended on Him. He was Baptized once. There aren't two Baptisms.
You are not Jesus. Jesus needed no baptism. You are seeing baptism from an English translation perspective not from the original Greek perspective. There are many baptisms but only one that produces eternal life.
No, that was the Church addressing the needs of converts in places where water is scarce and there isn't enough to immerse just enough to sprinkle. Would you tell that community they must risk their lives to Baptize?

As far as babies go I wouldn't Baptize them either if I denied it's power and believed it was just a symbol.
There is no baptism that men can perform to remit sin or redeem a soul. The baptism that saves is wholly of God and not of human hands.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 

Benadam

Active member
Aug 14, 2019
957
212
43
#57
In Matthew 3:11, we read - I baptize you with water for repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I, and I am not fit to remove His sandals; He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.

Again, in Acts 1:5, we read - for John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now. *TWO SEPARATE BAPTISMS.*

By saying ONE baptism in Ephesians 4:5, Paul did not mean that there is only one baptism that exists, such as water baptism but not Spirit baptism or Spirit baptism but not water baptism and this one baptism (Spirit baptism) places us into the body of Christ.

Ephesians 4:5 - one Lord, one faith, one baptism.

1 Corinthians 12:13 - For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body--whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free--and have all been made to drink into one Spirit.
Luke 7:29
All the people, even the tax collectors, when they heard Jesus’ words, acknowledged that God’s way was right, because they had been baptized by John.

Luke 7:30
But the Pharisees and the experts in the law rejected God’s purpose for themselves, because they had not been baptized by John.)



Doesn't look like a powerless symbol.
 
Mar 28, 2016
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#60
but there is one Baptism not two.

One baptism in respect to two working together as one "work of faith".

One lord, the greater of the two (father) greater in position but not purpose. God is one. Ceremonial laws are used when a person desires to become a member of the priesthood of believers .They are a a shadow of a work shadows do not work, they demonstrate the unseen work.

Ephesians 4:5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,


if we offer that kind of non faith towards God rather than His faith the at works in us . we are in danger of those who cricify christ ow over and over to public shame as if one demonstration was not enough.


No such thing as sign self edifying sign gifts .Jesus calls them dead works . the living foundation is laid once. Faith towards us

Hebrews 6 King James Version (KJV)Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God, (not from) Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.