The Nicene Creed

phil36 · Feb 10, 2017

We believe in one God,
the Father almighty,
maker of heaven and earth,
of all things visible and invisible.

And in one Lord Jesus Christ,
the only Son of God,
begotten from the Father before all ages,
God from God,
Light from Light,
true God from true God,
begotten, not made;
of the same essence as the Father.
Through him all things were made.
For us and for our salvation
he came down from heaven;
he became incarnate by the Holy Spirit and the virgin Mary,
and was made human.
He was crucified for us under Pontius Pilate;
he suffered and was buried.
The third day he rose again, according to the Scriptures.
He ascended to heaven
and is seated at the right hand of the Father.
He will come again with glory
to judge the living and the dead.
His kingdom will never end.

And we believe in the Holy Spirit,
the Lord, the giver of life.
He proceeds from the Father and the Son,
and with the Father and the Son is worshiped and glorified.
He spoke through the prophets.
We believe in one holy catholic and apostolic church.
We affirm one baptism for the forgiveness of sins.
We look forward to the resurrection of the dead,
and to life in the world to come. Amen.

I agree Amen indeed.

pottersclay · Feb 10, 2017

One baptism for the forgiveness of sin....

. It would of saved Jesus a lot of suffering had he known.

phil36 · Feb 10, 2017

Hopefully the verses below will give you an indication of what is mean't... You may want to check out what is mean't by this creed for yourself. (which is held to be a truthful statement by East and West (except for the filique clause)

There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called to one hope when you were called;5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism (Eph 4:4-5)

&

Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. (Acts 2:38)

So what does all this mean? The Nicene creed is one of those great statements of Faith made by the faithful. Why was it written, what does it mean?

Grace777x70 · Feb 10, 2017

Well...there is obviously more to this because the gentiles received the forgiveness of sins before they were water baptized. They were however baptized into the body of Christ first - then water baptized as a symbolic representation as seen in Peter's account in Acts 10.

We can see the progression of the understanding of the gospel through out Acts as Paul received more revelation from the Lord about what happened from the cross to the throne and the fact that believers were with Christ on the cross and in His resurrection. The early apostles had very little understanding of what had happened. They didn't even know the gospel was for the gentiles.

p_rehbein · Feb 10, 2017

Well..........yeah...........the one baptism for the forgiveness of sin is the baptism of the Holy Spirit, as we are washed in the blood of Christ.........water baptism IS NOT for the forgiveness of sin........everyone knows that..........

Grace777x70 said:

Depleted · Feb 11, 2017

phil36 said:

We believe in one God,
the Father almighty,
maker of heaven and earth,
of all things visible and invisible.

And in one Lord Jesus Christ,
the only Son of God,
begotten from the Father before all ages,
God from God,
Light from Light,
true God from true God,
begotten, not made;
of the same essence as the Father.
Through him all things were made.
For us and for our salvation
he came down from heaven;
he became incarnate by the Holy Spirit and the virgin Mary,
and was made human.
He was crucified for us under Pontius Pilate;
he suffered and was buried.
The third day he rose again, according to the Scriptures.
He ascended to heaven
and is seated at the right hand of the Father.
He will come again with glory
to judge the living and the dead.
His kingdom will never end.

And we believe in the Holy Spirit,
the Lord, the giver of life.
He proceeds from the Father and the Son,
and with the Father and the Son is worshiped and glorified.
He spoke through the prophets.
We believe in one holy catholic and apostolic church.
We affirm one baptism for the forgiveness of sins.
We look forward to the resurrection of the dead,
and to life in the world to come. Amen.

I agree Amen indeed.

Looks a lot like that pesky-ole doctrine stuff that we're supposedly not supposed to believe.

(I just read a thread where people were saying we're not supposed to trust in church or doctrine. Only in Jesus. And, I'm happy to say, I was able to keep my mouth shut... well, until now. lol)

But, AMEN! (on the Creed's words.)

Blik · Feb 11, 2017

The Nicene Council that composed the creed was assembled by Constantine in 323 because so many of the gentile church fathers were disagreeing with each other. The were to decide about Arianism. They believed "Jesus Christ is the Son of God who was created by God the Father at a point in time, is distinct from the Father and is, therefore subordinate to God and not the same as. Arian teachings were first attributed to Arius, a Christian presbyter in Alexandria, Egypt. The teachings of Arius and his supporter".

They debated for three years. Their expenses was all paid for by Constantine. He said that he would not influence them, but he did make his wishes for the church known. From his letters, laws made, and his speeches we have reports of he really did not accept the idea of God the Father, Christ the Son, and the Holy Spirit as one. He felt that Christ alone would be more acceptable to his pagan people. He also accepted both Christ and the Sun God, as we know from the money he minted with the sun god face. So the council did things like get rid of the holidays God ordained and Christianized pagan ones to replace them.

Constantine wanted all Romans united under one religion and he knew that could not be if that religion included Jews with any of their ways. His goal was not to learn God's ways and follow them but to have a united peaceful nation.

Enow · Feb 11, 2017

phil36 said:

John 1st chapter testifies that this was the Son's doing per agreement with the Father & the Holy Ghost.

John 1:1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.[SUP]2 [/SUP]The same was in the beginning with God.[SUP]3 [/SUP]All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made...[SUP]14 [/SUP]And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth..

There is a problem here. The Holy Spirit is life; not the Giver of life.

Romans 8:[SUP]9 [/SUP]But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.[SUP]10 [/SUP]And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

Jesus is the Giver of life. Jesus baptizes us with the Holy Ghost and when we receive the promise of the Holy Ghost, we have received eternal life. That is why we cannot receive the Holy Spirit again because we are sealed with eternal life.

Ephesians 4:[SUP]30 [/SUP]And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

All BIBLES testify to Jesus giving us life as the promise of the Holy Spirit when it is coming to Jesus & believing in Him is how we have eternal life.

John 5:[SUP]39 [/SUP]Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.[SUP]40 [/SUP]And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.

John 6:[SUP]32 [/SUP]Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Moses gave you not that bread from heaven; but my Father giveth you the true bread from heaven.[SUP]33 [/SUP]For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world.[SUP]34 [/SUP]Then said they unto him, Lord, evermore give us this bread.[SUP]35 [/SUP]And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.
But not all modern Bible capitalized spirit in John 6:63 & 2 Corinthians 3:6 as if those verses was about the Holy Spirit.

Since the Holy Spirit was sent to testify of the Son ( John 15:26 ) & to glorify the Son ( John 16:14 ) as scripture is to testify of the Son ( John 5:39-40 ) then we KNOW that most of those modern Bibles are wrong when the capitalize the spirit in John 6:63 & 2 Corinthians 3:6 when in the context of that message, it was not about the Holy Spirit.

There is no Biblical teaching about worshiping the Holy Spirit with the Father & the Son, but there is Biblical teaching on how the Father wants us to come to Him in worship and how to honor the Father in a specific way.

John 5:[SUP]22 [/SUP]For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:[SUP]23 [/SUP]That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.

Jesus did not forget about the Holy Spirit and so if He was included, He would not have added the latter part of verse 23 in the bold unless to be specific on how God the Father wants us to honor Him.

Just as God the Father is specific about how we are to come to Him in worship, by the only way of the Son.

John 14:[SUP]6 [/SUP]Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Why is that? We look in the world and see American Indians dance & chant for the Great Spirit to come where they experience a supernatural commune with the Great Spirit by being supernaturally drunk & falling down. Then you have other kinds of spirit worship and those that commune with other spirits like mediums & wizards that the only way to call them out and away from their spirits to Himself, the Father, is by the only way of the Son and to keep coming to the Father by way of the Son to keep spirit practices & spirit worship away.

As much as Protestant say that catholic mean universal, it is misleading as a witness in the world. And as far as holy goes, we heed the upward call to be perfect, but we are not perfect yet. That is why we are called to be holy constantly, but we cannot say that the church is holy when we are the body of Christ leaning on Him to be holy, and not everybody in the body of Christ is always doing that to call the church as holy yet.

Some have taught that water baptism brings the forgiveness of sins or the "remission of sins" but that was the water baptism of John the Baptist's.

Mark 1:[SUP]3 [/SUP]The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight.[SUP]4 [/SUP]John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins.

How did John prepared the way for the Lord? It is by believing in Him is how we received the remission of sins.

Acts 10:[SUP]43[/SUP]To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.[SUP]44 [/SUP]While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.

So water baptism does not bring about the remission of sins; but believing in Jesus Christ does and that brings the baptism of the Holy Spirit at our salvation as we receive the promise of the Holy Spirit by faith in Jesus Christ, we have received eternal life with God.

So the modified Nicene creed is not supported by scripture & thus reproved by scripture for any one to recite as being of the truth in representing our faith in Jesus Christ.

phil36 · Feb 11, 2017

Enow said:

The Holy Spirit is not the giver of Life?

3290 Holy Spirit, the life-giver

Through the Holy Spirit, God gives birth to and supports both natural and spiritual life. For this reason, Scripture likens the Holy Spirit to life-giving water.
The creating Spirit (or breath) of God gives and sustains life

Ge 1:2 See also Ge 2:7; Job 26:13; Job 27:3; Job 32:8 fn; Job 33:4; Job 34:14 fn; Ps 33:6; Ps 104:30
The Holy Spirit gives new life

Eze 37:1-14 See also Eze 36:26-28
The Holy Spirit is the life-giver in the conception of Jesus Christ

Mt 1:18 See also Mt 1:20; Lk 1:35
The Holy Spirit gives resurrection life to Jesus Christ

1Pe 3:18 See also Ro 1:4
The Holy Spirit brings new spiritual life

Jn 3:5 See also Jn 3:6,8; Jn 6:63
The Spirit sets believers free from bondage to works that lead to death Ro 8:2 See also Ro 8:6,13; Gal 6:8
The Holy Spirit is described as life-giving water

Jn 7:37-39 Words spoken by Jesus Christ at the Feast of Tabernacles. See also Isa 32:15; Isa 44:3-4; Eze 36:25-27; Eze 39:29; Eze 47:1-12; Zec 14:8; Jn 4:10,14; Rev 22:1-2,17

https://www.biblegateway.com/resources/dictionary-of-bible-themes/3290-Holy-Spirit-life-giver

With statements like yours Enow, it is more important that Faithful, learn what is orthodox. You clearly do not understand God, nor His work in creation and redemption,

Enow · Feb 11, 2017

phil36 said:

You are talking about creation. And we have scripture that tells us where that credit & glory goes to.

John 1:1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.[SUP]2 [/SUP]The same was in the beginning with God.[SUP]3 [/SUP]All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.[SUP]4 [/SUP]In him was life; and the life was the light of men.....[SUP]14 [/SUP]And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

Who would the Holy Spirit give that credit to?

John 16:[SUP]14 [/SUP]He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.[SUP]15 [/SUP]All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

Ezekiel 37:[SUP]5 [/SUP]Thus saith the Lord God unto these bones; Behold, I will cause breath to enter into you, and ye shall live:[SUP]6 [/SUP]And I will lay sinews upon you, and will bring up flesh upon you, and cover you with skin, and put breath in you, and ye shall live; and ye shall know that I am the Lord.

That can still be seen as the Lord giving physical life to the bones in the vision by His breath into them; That credit still goes to the Lord; not the breath, but His breath. Was it the breath that lay the sinews upon you? No. It was the Lord as John 1st chapter testifies AND that is WHOM the Holy Spirit would give the credit & glory to also.

Begotten Son of the Fatheras the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of the Father does give credit to the Father.

Of His own volition or doing the will of the Father? Then where does the real credit go to?

Do I need to repost John 16:13-15 again? Or maybe another reference is needed to see Whose workmanship we are.

Ephesians 2:[SUP]8 [/SUP]For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: [SUP]9 [/SUP]Not of works, lest any man should boast.[SUP]10[/SUP]For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Philippians 1:[SUP]6 [/SUP]Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:....[SUP]11 [/SUP]Being filled with the fruits of righteousness, which are by Jesus Christ, unto the glory and praise of God.

Hebrews 12:1Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,[SUP]2[/SUP]Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

Now.. WHO would the Holy Spirit give the credit & glory to as the Giver of eternal life as testified in scripture in John 5:39-40 & John 6:30-35 ?

Your scriptural reference cannot go against the scripture I have already shared. You site all those references but not post any in its entirety and I have. You have yet to explain away those scripture I have provided for you to read plainly.

Yes, the Holy Spirit plays a part, but so do we. We preach the gospel; does that credit go to us that we saved them? No. The words we speak are of the Spirit of Christ as the Holy Spirit hears the words from Christ and connvey them to us and so Jesus Christ gets the credit & glory for the words spoken by the Spirit.

John 16:[SUP]13 [/SUP]Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.[SUP]14 [/SUP]He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.[SUP]15 [/SUP]All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

Does the Holy Spirit draw all men unto the Son or is that a work of Another?

John 6:[SUP]44 [/SUP]No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Matthew 11:[SUP]25 [/SUP]At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes.[SUP]26 [/SUP]Even so, Father: for so it seemed good in thy sight.[SUP]27 [/SUP]All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.

So let us give credit where credit is due as testified plainly by scripture and not take verses of creation, of visions, of His conception out of context to try to prove that the Spirit is the Giver of eternal life when Jesus is.

John 5:[SUP]39 [/SUP]Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.[SUP]40 [/SUP]And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.
John 6:[SUP]32 [/SUP]Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Moses gave you not that bread from heaven; but my Father giveth you the true bread from heaven.[SUP]33 [/SUP]For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world.[SUP]34 [/SUP]Then said they unto him, Lord, evermore give us this bread.[SUP]35 [/SUP]And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.

The Nicene creed is not Biblical and we need not recite the creed when it is not fully of the truth in representing Him, His will for us in how to be a witness of the Son in seeking His glory, even in worship, as well as the preaching fully gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ

phil36 · Feb 11, 2017

Enow said:

You are talking about creation. And we have scripture that tells us where that credit & glory goes to.

John 1:1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.[SUP]2 [/SUP]The same was in the beginning with God.[SUP]3 [/SUP]All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.[SUP]4 [/SUP]In him was life; and the life was the light of men.....[SUP]14 [/SUP]And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

Who would the Holy Spirit give that credit to?

John 16:[SUP]14 [/SUP]He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.[SUP]15 [/SUP]All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

Ezekiel 37:[SUP]5 [/SUP]Thus saith the Lord God unto these bones; Behold, I will cause breath to enter into you, and ye shall live:[SUP]6 [/SUP]And I will lay sinews upon you, and will bring up flesh upon you, and cover you with skin, and put breath in you, and ye shall live; and ye shall know that I am the Lord.

That can still be seen as the Lord giving physical life to the bones in the vision by His breath into them; That credit still goes to the Lord; not the breath, but His breath. Was it the breath that lay the sinews upon you? No. It was the Lord as John 1st chapter testifies AND that is WHOM the Holy Spirit would give the credit & glory to also.

Begotten Son of the Fatheras the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of the Father does give credit to the Father.

Of His own volition or doing the will of the Father? Then where does the real credit go to?

Do I need to repost John 16:13-15 again? Or maybe another reference is needed to see Whose workmanship we are.

Ephesians 2:[SUP]8 [/SUP]For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: [SUP]9 [/SUP]Not of works, lest any man should boast.[SUP]10[/SUP]For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Philippians 1:[SUP]6 [/SUP]Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:....[SUP]11 [/SUP]Being filled with the fruits of righteousness, which are by Jesus Christ, unto the glory and praise of God.

Hebrews 12:1Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,[SUP]2[/SUP]Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

Now.. WHO would the Holy Spirit give the credit & glory to as the Giver of eternal life as testified in scripture in John 5:39-40 & John 6:30-35 ?

Your scriptural reference cannot go against the scripture I have already shared. You site all those references but not post any in its entirety and I have. You have yet to explain away those scripture I have provided for you to read plainly.

Yes, the Holy Spirit plays a part, but so do we. We preach the gospel; does that credit go to us that we saved them? No. The words we speak are of the Spirit of Christ as the Holy Spirit hears the words from Christ and connvey them to us and so Jesus Christ gets the credit & glory for the words spoken by the Spirit.

John 16:[SUP]13 [/SUP]Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.[SUP]14 [/SUP]He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.[SUP]15 [/SUP]All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

Does the Holy Spirit draw all men unto the Son or is that a work of Another?

John 6:[SUP]44 [/SUP]No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Matthew 11:[SUP]25 [/SUP]At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes.[SUP]26 [/SUP]Even so, Father: for so it seemed good in thy sight.[SUP]27 [/SUP]All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.

So let us give credit where credit is due as testified plainly by scripture and not take verses of creation, of visions, of His conception out of context to try to prove that the Spirit is the Giver of eternal life when Jesus is.

John 5:[SUP]39 [/SUP]Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.[SUP]40 [/SUP]And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.
John 6:[SUP]32 [/SUP]Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Moses gave you not that bread from heaven; but my Father giveth you the true bread from heaven.[SUP]33 [/SUP]For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world.[SUP]34 [/SUP]Then said they unto him, Lord, evermore give us this bread.[SUP]35 [/SUP]And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.

The Nicene creed is not Biblical and we need not recite the creed when it is not fully of the truth in representing Him and the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ.

HiEnow,

Now I see more clearly why have statements like the Nicene creed when I read posts like your.

An easy way to answer your question is actually with a very simple question.

Is the Holy Spirit God?

Enow · Feb 11, 2017

phil36 said:

You did not read then.

The Holy Ghost is God;

So does that mean the Holy Ghost died on the cross for our sins? No. And yet you would blur the lines of what the Father does and what the Son does with what the Holy Ghost does.

The indwelling Holy Ghost as testified by scripture would glorify the Son as the Giver of life. Scripture testified that coming to Jesus is how we receive eternal life. I am not reposting scripture since you refuse to address them.

You should not be defending the Nicene creed which was made by ecumenical men and taught by ecumenical men, but the scripture wherein all modern Bibles testify that Jesus is the Giver of life in John 5:39-40 & John 6:30-35.

The good fight is not defending the Nicene creed. The good fight is defending the faith in Jesus Christ.

The Holy Spirit as God is leading you to testify of the Son ( John 15:26-27 ) in seeking the Son's glory ( John 16:14 ) and by Him, the glory of God the Father ( Philippians 2:5-11 ) as the glory of God rests on His Son ( John 13:31-32 )

John 13:[SUP]31 [/SUP]Therefore, when he was gone out, Jesus said, Now is the Son of man glorified, and God is glorified in him.[SUP]32 [/SUP]If God be glorified in him, God shall also glorify him in himself, and shall straightway glorify him.

The Father's will is to honor the Son if you want to honor the Father. The moment you stop honoring the Father, you are no longer honoring the Son; thus honoring the Holy Spirit in worship is out. Why? Because there are sinners that worship spirits like the American Indians that dance & chant for the Great Spirit to come where they experience a supernatural drunkenness where they fall down and do other confusing stuff and those that commune with spirits in the occult. How can God call them out from those spirits and keep them from their spirits and seducing spirits roaming out there other than for sinners to come to the Son and keep coming to the Son Whom the Holy Spirit will still keep pointing EVERYBODY to go to especially in worship to avoid being led astray. The Holy Spirit will never lead a believer to share the Holy Spirit Himself in the spotlight with Jesus Christ, nor steal the spotlight from Him in worship even for a little bit so that believers can know that is not the Holy Spirit doing that.

So.. do you believe that the Holy Spirit died on the cross?

Then recognize scripture of Whom the Holy Spirit would testify of in seeking His glory for He would give the credit & the title of the Giver of eternal life to Jesus Christ for when He baptized new believers with the Holy Ghost, thus giving us the Holy Ghost, that is when they have received eternal life for God is within us.

Depleted · Feb 11, 2017

Blik said:

The Nicene Council that composed the creed was assembled by Constantine in 323 because so many of the gentile church fathers were disagreeing with each other. The were to decide about Arianism. They believed "Jesus Christ is the Son of God who was created by God the Father at a point in time, is distinct from the Father and is, therefore subordinate to God and not the same as. Arian teachings were first attributed to Arius, a Christian presbyter in Alexandria, Egypt. The teachings of Arius and his supporter".

They debated for three years. Their expenses was all paid for by Constantine. He said that he would not influence them, but he did make his wishes for the church known. From his letters, laws made, and his speeches we have reports of he really did not accept the idea of God the Father, Christ the Son, and the Holy Spirit as one. He felt that Christ alone would be more acceptable to his pagan people. He also accepted both Christ and the Sun God, as we know from the money he minted with the sun god face. So the council did things like get rid of the holidays God ordained and Christianized pagan ones to replace them.

Constantine wanted all Romans united under one religion and he knew that could not be if that religion included Jews with any of their ways. His goal was not to learn God's ways and follow them but to have a united peaceful nation.

Boy! The lengths you'll go to avoid any appearance with agreeing with doctrine.

phil36 · Feb 11, 2017

Enow said:

You did not read then.

The Holy Ghost is God;

So does that mean the Holy Ghost died on the cross for our sins? No. And yet you would blur the lines of what the Father does and what the Son does with what the Holy Ghost does.

The indwelling Holy Ghost as testified by scripture would glorify the Son as the Giver of life. Scripture testified that coming to Jesus is how we receive eternal life. I am not reposting scripture since you refuse to address them.

You should not be defending the Nicene creed which was made by ecumenical men and taught by ecumenical men, but the scripture wherein all modern Bibles testify that Jesus is the Giver of life in John 5:39-40 & John 6:30-35.

The good fight is not defending the Nicene creed. The good fight is defending the faith in Jesus Christ.

The Holy Spirit as God is leading you to testify of the Son ( John 15:26-27 ) in seeking the Son's glory ( John 16:14 ) and by Him, the glory of God the Father ( Philippians 2:5-11 ) as the glory of God rests on His Son ( John 13:31-32 )

John 13:[SUP]31 [/SUP]Therefore, when he was gone out, Jesus said, Now is the Son of man glorified, and God is glorified in him.[SUP]32 [/SUP]If God be glorified in him, God shall also glorify him in himself, and shall straightway glorify him.

The Father's will is to honor the Son if you want to honor the Father. The moment you stop honoring the Father, you are no longer honoring the Son; thus honoring the Holy Spirit in worship is out. Why? Because there are sinners that worship spirits like the American Indians that dance & chant for the Great Spirit to come where they experience a supernatural drunkenness where they fall down and do other confusing stuff and those that commune with spirits in the occult. How can God call them out from those spirits and keep them from their spirits and seducing spirits roaming out there other than for sinners to come to the Son and keep coming to the Son Whom the Holy Spirit will still keep pointing EVERYBODY to go to especially in worship to avoid being led astray. The Holy Spirit will never lead a believer to share the Holy Spirit Himself in the spotlight with Jesus Christ, nor steal the spotlight from Him in worship even for a little bit so that believers can know that is not the Holy Spirit doing that.

So.. do you believe that the Holy Spirit died on the cross?

Then recognize scripture of Whom the Holy Spirit would testify of in seeking His glory for He would give the credit & the title of the Giver of eternal life to Jesus Christ for when He baptized new believers with the Holy Ghost, thus giving us the Holy Ghost, that is when they have received eternal life for God is within us.

Hi Enow,

I don't find your proposition to be logical, I will refer you back to Post #9.

You argument leads to thinking that the Holy Spirit is somehow 'lesser' than the Father and Son. Here's another comment you made which is in error:

Now the above statement is not biblical regarding the Holy Spirit, Anyhow for anyone interested here is a short article that will clear Enow's misunderstanding of the Godhead:

https://www.gotquestions.org/worship-Holy-Spirit.html

Maynard · Feb 11, 2017

Amen to the Nicene Creed.

p_rehbein said:

Ouch. No. The Church Fathers were correct and you are in err.
Baptism forgives the sin of Adam (original sin) and any sins which a person who has reached an age of accountability has committed up to the point of their Baptism.

hence "one baptism for the forgiveness of sins."

Enow · Feb 11, 2017

phil36 said:

Hi Phil,

How is He lesser since He is God? BUT...

I ask you would you give credit to the Holy Spirit when that credit is given only to the Son as the scripture says?

Would you give credit to the Holy Spirit when that credit is to the Father as the scripture says?

Did the Holy Spirit die on the cross for our sins?

The problem here is that believers that are focused so much on the Holy Spirit that they are failing to see that the job of the Holy Spirit is to lead us to focus only on the Son in worship for by honoring the Son is the only way to honor God the Father.

A believer was honoring the Holy Spirit in worship when he felt liquid nitrogen seeping through his skull and confessing "against his will" an apology to the Holy Spirit for not believing that He did dramatic manifestations as He has done in the early church days any more. Why did God permit this strong delusion to occur? Because he went around the Son in worship ( John 10:1 & John 14:6 ) and disobeyed the Father's will on how He wants to be honored in worship ( John 5:23 ).

Another believer felt the presence of the Holy Spirit in the worship place, and yet 1 John 4:4 says that is where the spirit of the antichrist is.

So how can God call sinners to repent from their spirit worship & those away from communing with spirits in the occult unless you see what Jesus meant what He had actually said in how He is the only way to come to God the Father by.

John 14:[SUP]6 [/SUP]Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Did Jesus really meant that? Is that not what the devil does in doubting if God really said that? Why didn't God say this...

Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me, & by the Holy Ghost.

Because it is a given? No. Either we go by the scripture or we start blurring the lines of the Three Persons of the Godhead where all 3 were on that cross that day and the Triune God had died on the cross. But no.

Just saying so does not make it so. Where is the scriptural reproof that the churches were taught to worship the Holy Spirit with the Father & the Son?

How can you not see the judgment on every believer in John 5:22 on how we are judged by the only way of honoring God the Father by in John 5:23?

John 5:[SUP]22 [/SUP]For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:[SUP]23 [/SUP]That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.

Do you just gloss over it? Do you believe it is irrelevant? By what? Another scripture that says it is okay to worship the Holy Spirit with the Father & the Son? No. That is not what you are doing. You are defending church traditions per the Nicene creed when the KJV Bible does not support the Nicene creed.

What do you think the Holy Spirit has been sent to do? To testify of the Son ( John 15:26 ) to glorify the Son ( John 16:14 ). Now how is He going to do that? Through us ( John 15:27 ) and that includes worship; ( John 13:31-32 & Philippians 2:5-11 )

Either go by His words in the scripture or...... just assume as the Nicene creeders did that just because the Holy Spirit is God, then we are to worship Him with the Father & the Son and even worship God by the name of the Trinity when the Jesus Christ is the name above every other name in worship which is to the glory of God the Father.

So do what the Holy Spirit in you is leading you to do in worship, or do what the Nicene creed told you to do for they are not one and the same thing as one is the Father's will and the other is the will of the ecumenical council's.

So whose disciples are you going to be? The disciple of Jesus Christ's or the disciple of the Nicene creed?

Zmouth · Feb 11, 2017

phil36 said:

Nope. They have to be evil; and give their children good gifts; and the ask their heavenly Father in order to receive the Holy Spirit.[See Luke 11:13]

phil36 said:

Or is the reason because the LORD God made the serpent from the dust and the ground and put in his nostril the breath of life. Since you can't actually form a body of flesh from just the two States of Matter except in one's own imagination then is it any wonder that it is written in John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God since a corpse can't even be made without the three States of Matter (Solid)(Liquid)(Gas). So if the water is the Holy Spirit then why did Jesus say "and of the Spirit" if water and Holy Spirit are the same thing?

phil36 said:

Again, if the Holy Spirit is the breath of life in your nostrils then why would you have to be born again since you already have the air in your nostrils?

phil36 · Feb 11, 2017

Zmouth said:

I haven't a clue how you get the above idea zmouth, I never said that nor any of the links... Sometimes we need to think when we read.. look at that word 'GIVES'.

"The creating Spirit (or breath) of God gives and sustains life"

phil36 · Feb 11, 2017

Enow said:

Hi Phil,

How is He lesser since He is God? BUT...

I ask you would you give credit to the Holy Spirit when that credit is given only to the Son as the scripture says?

Would you give credit to the Holy Spirit when that credit is to the Father as the scripture says?

Did the Holy Spirit die on the cross for our sins?

The problem here is that believers that are focused so much on the Holy Spirit that they are failing to see that the job of the Holy Spirit is to lead us to focus only on the Son in worship for by honoring the Son is the only way to honor God the Father.

A believer was honoring the Holy Spirit in worship when he felt liquid nitrogen seeping through his skull and confessing "against his will" an apology to the Holy Spirit for not believing that He did dramatic manifestations as He has done in the early church days any more. Why did God permit this strong delusion to occur? Because he went around the Son in worship ( John 10:1 & John 14:6 ) and disobeyed the Father's will on how He wants to be honored in worship ( John 5:23 ).

Another believer felt the presence of the Holy Spirit in the worship place, and yet 1 John 4:4 says that is where the spirit of the antichrist is.

So how can God call sinners to repent from their spirit worship & those away from communing with spirits in the occult unless you see what Jesus meant what He had actually said in how He is the only way to come to God the Father by.

John 14:[/FONT][/SIZE][SUP]6 [/SUP]Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Did Jesus really meant that? Is that not what the devil does in doubting if God really said that? Why didn't God say this...

Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me, & by the Holy Ghost.

Because it is a given? No. Either we go by the scripture or we start blurring the lines of the Three Persons of the Godhead where all 3 were on that cross that day and the Triune God had died on the cross. But no.

Just saying so does not make it so. Where is the scriptural reproof that the churches were taught to worship the Holy Spirit with the Father & the Son?

How can you not see the judgment on every believer in John 5:22 on how we are judged by the only way of honoring God the Father by in John 5:23?

John 5:[SUP]22 [/SUP]For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:[SUP]23 [/SUP]That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.

Do you just gloss over it? Do you believe it is irrelevant? By what? Another scripture that says it is okay to worship the Holy Spirit with the Father & the Son? No. That is not what you are doing. You are defending church traditions per the Nicene creed when the KJV Bible does not support the Nicene creed.

What do you think the Holy Spirit has been sent to do? To testify of the Son ( John 15:26 ) to glorify the Son ( John 16:14 ). Now how is He going to do that? Through us ( John 15:27 ) and that includes worship; ( John 13:31-32 & Philippians 2:5-11 )

Either go by His words in the scripture or...... just assume as the Nicene creeders did that just because the Holy Spirit is God, then we are to worship Him with the Father & the Son and even worship God by the name of the Trinity when the Jesus Christ is the name above every other name in worship which is to the glory of God the Father.

So do what the Holy Spirit in you is leading you to do in worship, or do what the Nicene creed told you to do for they are not one and the same thing as one is the Father's will and the other is the will of the ecumenical council's.

So whose disciples are you going to be? The disciple of Jesus Christ's or the disciple of the Nicene creed?

I take it you are saying you are more Spiritually enlightened than the writers of the Nicene Creed, and are you trying to say that they were not disciples of Jesus Christ?

You post makes no sense. Again I'll refer you back to post #9 and the following link that actually handles scripture rightly :

https://www.gotquestions.org/worship-Holy-Spirit.html

P.s, If you don't want to believe the whole counsel of the word regarding the triune God, that's your problem. As I am sure you are well aware that the Nicene Creed was written in defence of those with errors and heresies regarding the Godhead!

Blik · Feb 11, 2017

Depleted said:

The Lord is my creator and my Savior. I have given God my life, nothing is more important. I go to any lengths to learn the truth about God's world, about walking in His Kingdom and knowing truth. When I found Constantine had much to do with church doctrine today I read his letters, about his life, and the laws he made to find out why, when, and how. Then compared it to scripture.

Not doing this is avoiding and not facing truth.

The Nicene Creed

Senior Member

pottersclay

Guest

Senior Member

Banned

Senior Member

Depleted

Guest

Senior Member

Banned

Senior Member

Banned

Senior Member

Banned

Depleted

Guest

Senior Member

Banned

Banned

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member