THE OLD AND NEW COVENANT

[iamsoandso]

i tend to agree,, during the "interpretations" of the bible mankind thought to put all of "these books together" and all of "these books together",now so if it happened before Christ was born it was put under the heading of "old" and if it happened after Christ was born it was put under "new",,,now the covenant made to abraham was made some 500 years before the "book ks of Moses were written" that is he told Abraham four hundred years you will be in captivity for the time of the ammonites is not yet full" and Moses then 40 years old left out of Egypt and was married and after 40 years then god sent back to egypt and so he was eighty and then the years that joseph was in Egypt untill the pharoe died and another rose and did not know joseph so 500 plus years before the law of Moses,,,,,,,was the promise made unto the "seed",,,,i notice it first when Paul was speaking of it " i say new but it was of old",,,,,,,,pointing back to Abraham and the covenent made with him who was the for father of Moses who came after. and so the covenant of christ is the oldest by far made unto Abraham's,,"seed",,and the law the lord bringing it to bear.,i am in the midst of loving you

 

[Avinu]

[QUOTEi tend to agree,, during the "interpretations" of the bible mankind thought to put all of "these books together" and all of "these books together",now so if it happened before Christ was born it was put under the heading of "old" and if it happened after Christ was born it was put under "new",,,now the covenant made to abraham was made some 500 years before the "book ks of Moses were written" that is he told Abraham four hundred years you will be in captivity for the time of the ammonites is not yet full" and Moses then 40 years old left out of Egypt and was married and after 40 years then god sent back to egypt and so he was eighty and then the years that joseph was in Egypt untill the pharoe died and another rose and did not know joseph so 500 plus years before the law of Moses,,,,,,,was the promise made unto the "seed",,,,i notice it first when Paul was speaking of it " i say new but it was of old",,,,,,,,pointing back to Abraham and the covenent made with him who was the for father of Moses who came after. and so the covenant of christ is the oldest by far made unto Abraham's,,"seed",,and the law the lord bringing it to bear.,i am in the midst of loving you ][/QUOTE]

Very well said my friend, very well said.

 

[Avinu]

There is only One Israel of God, neither Jew or Greek, neither bond or free, male of female.
But we are all one in Christ. Gal.3:28

Something we agree on.

 

[DivineMelody]

Appreciative of what's been shared as I'm really trying to come to a correct understanding of our covenant relationship. The more I dig in the more I'm learning and unlearning. One thing that I've recently been made aware of is that covenant has been mistranslated to testament in various places in the brit' hadasha/new testament when in all cases covenant was the correct word that should have been used throughout. The two words are different in their meaning and yet were erroneously viewed as being interchangeable. Anyhow, back to my studies, just wanted to say thanks for what's been posted. Shalom. : )

 

[Avinu]

Appreciative of what's been shared as I'm really trying to come to a correct understanding of our covenant relationship. The more I dig in the more I'm learning and unlearning. One thing that I've recently been made aware of is that covenant has been mistranslated to testament in various places in the brit' hadasha/new testament when in all cases covenant was the correct word that should have been used throughout. The two words are different in their meaning and yet were erroneously viewed as being interchangeable. Anyhow, back to my studies, just wanted to say thanks for what's been posted. Shalom. : )
__________________
..... (¯`v´¯)♥

It is people like you, is why I'm on here. Because of your hernest desire to learn YHVH's word His way and not man's way. I love what you said " The more I dig in the more I'm learning and unlearning." Unlearning, that has got to be one of the most mature and humbled statements I've ever heard on here or anywhere. There is more for us to unlearn then we realize. There is no doubt YHVH is going to pour out His truth upon you DM, you are truly a daughter of YHVH. Bless your heart. Shalom

 

[Elizabeth619]

Can someone put all this in Kindergarten terms? I am having a major dumb moment. Thanks.



HIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Avinu!!!! <3

 

[Avinu]

Can someone put all this in Kindergarten terms? I am having a major dumb moment. Thanks. what part?



HIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Avinu!!!! <3

Shalomie homie, what's happening my sister from another mister? lol I know that was lame.

 

[Elizabeth619]

Im not feeling to well tonight, and having a hard time concentrating. lol.

I may need to read your thread when I am more alert.

 

[Avinu]

Im not feeling to well tonight, and having a hard time concentrating. lol.

I may need to read your thread when I am more alert.

I'm sorry you're not feeling good, may Yah help you to feel better quickly, in Yeshua's name, Amen

 

[Red33]

The church is not the Israel of God, it is the body and bride of Christ that He redeemed with His own blood. Israel is an elect people and nation that has not been forsaken by God and will raise it up during the time of Jacob's trouble. We should not mix the two or any of the promises that have been given. The church must be taken away before God can deal with Israel once again as a nation and people.

 

[Avinu]

Eph 2:11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;

Eph 2:12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:

Eph 2:13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.



Gal 3:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

Gal 3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

Gal 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

Gal 3:29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.




Rom 11:16 For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches.

Rom 11:17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;

Rom 11:18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.

Rom 11:19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in.

Rom 11:20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:

Rom 11:21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.

Looks like to me, Yah made Israel and the church ECHAD(ONE) with Him.

 

[Grandpa]

Eph 2:11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;

Eph 2:12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:

Eph 2:13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.



Gal 3:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

Gal 3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

Gal 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

Gal 3:29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.




Rom 11:16 For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches.

Rom 11:17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;

Rom 11:18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.

Rom 11:19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in.

Rom 11:20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:

Rom 11:21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.

Looks like to me, Yah made Israel and the church ECHAD(ONE) with Him.

It looks like to me the ones who don't believe in Jesus were broken off. The ones who do believe in Jesus are graffed in.

It looks to me like it is all about Jesus, all the time.

 

[nath1234]

Can someone put all this in Kindergarten terms? I am having a major dumb moment. Thanks.

HIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Avinu!!!! <3

a rough analogy

well this is the way i think of it the old covanent is like a car (cos Avinu likes car analogys) and this car is suposed to have a turbo it was built to have a turbo but it hasent go one yet

the coming of Jesus christ is like the arrival of the turbo but now you have a turbo you dont throw away the car!!!

the old and new covenents are both critical neither one has been done away with

also now Jesus has come and we have the full covenant

so we now have the holy spirit in us and the power of sin has been broken that it need not reign any more in our lives


the standards of the new covanent are the same as the old covanent but they are all higher as now we have the full covanent

nath

 

[Spiritual_Plague]

[QUOTEWhether it be on this thread or another, I'd welcome hearing your thoughts pertaining Jeremiah 31 and how you find it fits into the scheme of things concerning Old vs Renewed/New Covenant.

A New Covenant

27“Behold, days are coming,” declares the LORD, “when I will sow the house of Israel and the house of Judah with the seed of man and with the seed of beast. 28“As I have watched over them to pluck up, to break down, to overthrow, to destroy and to bring disaster, so I will watch over them to build and to plant,” declares the LORD.

29“In those days they will not say again,
‘The fathers have eaten sour grapes,
And the children’s teeth are set on edge.’

30“But everyone will die for his own iniquity; each man who eats the sour grapes, his teeth will be set on edge.

31“Behold, days are coming,” declares the LORD, “when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah, 32not like the covenant which I made with their fathers in the day I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, although I was a husband to them,” declares the LORD. 33“But this is the covenant which I will make with the house of Israel after those days,” declares the LORD, “I will put My law within them and on their heart I will write it; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. 34“They will not teach again, each man his neighbor and each man his brother, saying, ‘Know the LORD,’ for they will all know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them,” declares the LORD, “for I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more.”

35Thus says the LORD,
Who gives the sun for light by day
And the fixed order of the moon and the stars for light by night,
Who stirs up the sea so that its waves roar;
The LORD of hosts is His name:

36“If this fixed order departs
From before Me,” declares the LORD,
“Then the offspring of Israel also will cease
From being a nation before Me forever.”

37Thus says the LORD,
“If the heavens above can be measured
And the foundations of the earth searched out below,
Then I will also cast off all the offspring of Israel
For all that they have done,” declares the LORD.

38“Behold, days are coming,” declares the LORD, “when the city will be rebuilt for the LORD from the Tower of Hananel to the Corner Gate. 39“The measuring line will go out farther straight ahead to the hill Gareb; then it will turn to Goah. 40“And the whole valley of the dead bodies and of the ashes, and all the fields as far as the brook Kidron, to the corner of the Horse Gate toward the east, shall be holy to the LORD; it will not be plucked up or overthrown anymore forever.”
QUOTE]

What is being explained here is not a brand new thing, YHVH is stating in a nutshell that He is going to restore the two houses of Israel back unto Himself, and restore Torah through Yeshua who is Torah.( I believe this is what it's talking about when it says "not like the covenant when I took them out of Egypt, which they broke.) Without Yeshua there is no Torah, there is no Bible all together without Him. Yeshua didn't come to replace Torah, He came to reastablish, restore, renew it. Hence the Brit Hadeshah, The Renewed Covenant, not New testament.

The word 'new' in verse 31 is the hebrew word 'Chadash'
H2318
&#1495;&#1491;&#1513;&#1473;
châdash
khaw-dash'
A primitive root; to be new; causatively to rebuild: - renew, repair.

The ACTUAL word used in verse 31 for "new" is strong's number 02319.

It's ACTUAL meaning is defined as

1) new, new thing, fresh

The concept you are trying to present is false and you didn't even use the correct word definition to present it with or the correct hebrew markings on its letters- refer to Galatians 4 in context for a fantastic explanation of the 2 covenants- the one from Sinai and the One from the heavenly Jerusalem.

 

[Spiritual_Plague]

You all explain the new covenant so well, would you explain Hebrews 8:13?

Hebrews 8:13
By calling this covenant &#8220;new,&#8221; he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear.

I loved the illustration of the hot rod. My friends keep telling me it is a completely new car! They say that the law was too hard for us, so God changed his mind about it. !!!!!

Also, we now have the Holy Spirit, the law is on our hearts and minds. I am told this means that the spirit replaces the law. The old way, they say was the obsolete law, the new way is with spirit and truth. I am not getting through to my friends that both are alive and well.

I have never explained as well as any of you! You all understand, I am anxious to hear you explain it.

There's no hidden meaning to the verse...it means what it says:

-The same word for "new" here is the same word used for "new" wine when it's referenced in scripture. Fact is it actually means what is says..."new" ....not renewed.

- The word for "first" here does not mean "better" as someone dishonestly presented to you. The scriptures actually tell you themselves which covenant was better "first" covenant verses the "new covenant. Look up Hebrews 8:6 and it will show you that the "new" covenant is a better covenant on better promises.

-Obsolete is a reference to the fact that since we have a new covenant now...the other one is considered "old". Read Galatians chapter 4 about the 2 covenants and you will quickly learn that the new covenant is entirely and completely different than the previous covenant (the old). Apostle Paul tells you to TOSS OUT the old covenant. Colossians 2:13, 14 is another reference to tossing out the "old" covenant.

The new covenant is JESUS....not laws and works of that law.

 

[superdave5221]

There's no hidden meaning to the verse...it means what it says:

-The same word for "new" here is the same word used for "new" wine when it's referenced in scripture. Fact is it actually means what is says..."new" ....not renewed.

- The word for "first" here does not mean "better" as someone dishonestly presented to you. The scriptures actually tell you themselves which covenant was better "first" covenant verses the "new covenant. Look up Hebrews 8:6 and it will show you that the "new" covenant is a better covenant on better promises.

-Obsolete is a reference to the fact that since we have a new covenant now...the other one is considered "old". Read Galatians chapter 4 about the 2 covenants and you will quickly learn that the new covenant is entirely and completely different than the previous covenant (the old). Apostle Paul tells you to TOSS OUT the old covenant. Colossians 2:13, 14 is another reference to tossing out the "old" covenant.

The new covenant is JESUS....not laws and works of that law.

Exactly!

God does not enter into a covenant with his people, only to change it at his whim. This would make God unreliable. A covenant is a contract. When the terms of the contract are fulfilled, as Jesus said he came to do, and did on the cross, the contract ends.

Matthew 5: 17 "Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets ; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill.


Are we still under covenant (contract) to the bank for a loan that we paid off 10 years ago? NO! The covenant has been fulfilled or completed. Jesus paid off our debt for us and fulfilled the law.

With the fulfillment of the old contract, God initiates a New Covenant, containing many of the same terms as the old one, but not containing the Sabbath Laws, which were meant to show a national identity with Israel the nation, as one that was God's people, and in which he had rescued from bondage in Egypt.

Deuteronomy 5:15 'You shall remember that you were a slave in the land of Egypt, and the LORD your God brought you out of there by a mighty hand and by an outstretched arm ; therefore the LORD your God commanded you to observe the sabbath day.

Compare that verse with this one:

Galatians 6: 2 Bear one another's burdens, and thereby fulfill the law of Christ.

 

[Avinu]

The ACTUAL word used in verse 31 for "new" is strong's number 02319.

It's ACTUAL meaning is defined as

1) new, new thing, fresh

The concept you are trying to present is false and you didn't even use the correct word definition to present it with or the correct hebrew markings on its letters- refer to Galatians 4 in context for a fantastic explanation of the 2 covenants- the one from Sinai and the One from the heavenly Jerusalem.

What hebrew markings would that be?

what I have is the root word for 'new' which is renewed, repair, restore. I did not put anything false. So when you're going to try to correct someone, make sure you checked your source completely.

As for Galatians 4, once again shows someone who has absolutely no knowledge of the tanak, so they can only conclude what they can figure out in the Brit Hadeshah.

 

[Grandpa]

Galatians 4

1Now I say, That the heir, as long as he is a child, differeth nothing from a servant, though he be lord of all;
2But is under tutors and governors until the time appointed of the father.
3Even so we, when we were children, were in bondage under the elements of the world:
4But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,
5To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.
6And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.
7Wherefore thou art no more a servant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ.
8Howbeit then, when ye knew not God, ye did service unto them which by nature are no gods.
9But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?
10Ye observe days, and months, and times, and years.
11I am afraid of you, lest I have bestowed upon you labour in vain.
12Brethren, I beseech you, be as I am; for I am as ye are: ye have not injured me at all.
13Ye know how through infirmity of the flesh I preached the gospel unto you at the first.
14And my temptation which was in my flesh ye despised not, nor rejected; but received me as an angel of God, even as Christ Jesus.
15Where is then the blessedness ye spake of? for I bear you record, that, if it had been possible, ye would have plucked out your own eyes, and have given them to me.
16Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?
17They zealously affect you, but not well; yea, they would exclude you, that ye might affect them.
18But it is good to be zealously affected always in a good thing, and not only when I am present with you.
19My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you,
20I desire to be present with you now, and to change my voice; for I stand in doubt of you.
21Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law?
22For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman.
23But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise.
24Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.
25For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.
26But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.
27For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband.
28Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.
29But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.
30Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman. 31So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.

 

[RedTent]

There's no hidden meaning to the verse...it means what it says:

-Obsolete is a reference to the fact that since we have a new covenant now...the other one is considered "old". Read Galatians chapter 4 about the 2 covenants and you will quickly learn that the new covenant is entirely and completely different than the previous covenant (the old). Apostle Paul tells you to TOSS OUT the old covenant. Colossians 2:13, 14 is another reference to tossing out the "old" covenant.

The new covenant is JESUS....not laws and works of that law.

___________________________________________________________________________________
Sc ripture is telling us to toss something out, so what should we toss? If the new to replace the old is Christ should we toss out God? Can't do that, Christ said "i and the Father are one". Toss out all of the covenants that came before the new we are told of? That would be saying God made a mistake. Our world is based on those covenants, tossing the whole thing would cause quite an upheaval. But something is to be tossed and it has to do with Christ.

Christ gave his blood for us, it replaces the symbolic blood shed in the temple. Christ's blood, we are told is a fulfillment, it completes. Sin is death, blood represents life. So lets toss the old method of sacrifice and replace it with Christ. This works scriptually, tossing everything doesn't, it is tossing the baby with the dish water.

Now then, scripture tells us a lot about law, grace, faith, works. There is a way of understanding this to make it all disagree with each other, to upset balance and God is balance, with everything working together. We can toss out law because it is grace, we are told that is most important. But if we get rid of law we upset the very balance of our world so that won't work. If we go back to all scripture we find that grace is what saves us, we use law to make grace work, it is a cooperative. That works.

 

[Spiritual_Plague]

What hebrew markings would that be?

what I have is the root word for 'new' which is renewed, repair, restore. I did not put anything false. So when you're going to try to correct someone, make sure you checked your source completely.

As for Galatians 4, once again shows someone who has absolutely no knowledge of the tanak, so they can only conclude what they can figure out in the Brit Hadeshah.

In one post you gave the wrong word and the post you are currently referring to, you gave the "root" instead of the actual word used, which changed the meaning of what the verse was saying. The word used is "new" which is different than the word used for "renew". Then in another post you presented Hebrews 8:13 as saying that the 1st covenant mentioned can even be referred to as the "better" covenant, when that is the exact opposite of what the context is saying. So far you've been presenting dishonestly to try to make the scriptures say something that aren't saying at all.

No, knowledge of the tanak? I know enough to know what the covenant from Sinai is in reference to Galatians 4 that apostle Paul said to throw out:

Exodus 24:4, 9
And Moses wrote all the words of the LORD. And he rose early in the morning, and built an altar at the foot of the mountain, and twelve pillars according to the twelve tribes of Israel. Then he took the Book of the Covenant and read in the hearing of the people. And they said, "All that the LORD has said we will do, and be obedient."

The 10 commandments were apart of the book of the covenant...so those went too.