The perennial Acts 2.38 confusion .

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Mar 14, 2011
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The short of all this is Peter was preaching to Jewish People who had a ritual of purification by the authority of Jesus.

Ezekiel 36:25
Then I will sprinkle pure water on you and make you pure. I will wash away all your filth, the filth from those nasty idols, and I will make you pure.

Hebrews 9:13
The blood of goats and bulls and the ashes of a cow were sprinkled on those who were no longer pure enough to enter the place of worship. The blood and ashes made them pure again—but only their bodies.

Hebrews 10:22
Sprinkled with the blood of Christ, our hearts have been made free from a guilty conscience, and our bodies have been washed with pure water. So come near to God with a sincere heart, full of confidence because of our faith in Christ.
How do,you gather Jesus sprinkling water refers to,some priest or an apostle immersing in water?

wayer was always a symbol pointing to the washing of God which pointed to the cross. not some baptismal water
 

TheLearner

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Jan 14, 2019
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How do,you gather Jesus sprinkling water refers to,some priest or an apostle immersing in water?

wayer was always a symbol pointing to the washing of God which pointed to the cross. not some baptismal water
I hope I understand your questions. It was God speaking in Eze. As I said before, purification rituals existed in Judaism.
Since Jesus is God, the Eze text applies to Us being purified by God. Thus IMHO I think it points to Jesus. The baptismal water in Jewish mind(partly raised jewish myself) relates to each other. It is just my humble understanding, not authoritative.
 
Mar 14, 2011
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I hope I understand your questions. It was God speaking in Eze. As I said before, purification rituals existed in Judaism.
Since Jesus is God, the Eze text applies to Us being purified by God. Thus IMHO I think it points to Jesus. The baptismal water in Jewish mind(partly raised jewish myself) relates to each other. It is just my humble understanding, not authoritative.
So,do,you think because of this, the jews were required to be baptized to,recieve remission of sin as some here proclaim, or do you think like many of us, that it is just a symbol of what God does to us when he saves us
 

TheLearner

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So,do,you think because of this, the jews were required to be baptized to,recieve remission of sin as some here proclaim, or do you think like many of us, that it is just a symbol of what God does to us when he saves us
Does remission equal purification?
 
Mar 14, 2011
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Feb 22, 2021
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In a Spiritual sense correct, but as an open and outright
Testimony to the world, the example is through Water.
Precious friend, creates Problems:

(1) Bad math! Today, Under GRACE {Romans - Philemon KJB!), there is only
ONE BAPTISM! (Ephesians 4:5 KJB!)
ADDing water = TWO baptismS! Is this
"Approved Unto God"?

(2) Teaching water As The ONE baptism, Destroys the
Spiritual UNITY Of God's SEVEN ONEs In:

Ephesians 4:3-6 KJB!:
3 Endeavouring to keep the UNITY of the Spirit in the bond of peace.
4 There is one body, and ONE Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope
of your calling;
5 one Lord, one faith, ONE BAPTISM,
6 one God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in
you all.

Would you understand This As SIX Spiritual, And one physical?
How then would that be: UNITY of the Spirit? Little wonder then
that multiplied denominations are Severely DIVIDED over water?

(3)
a) Thus, those who acknowledge, And Are UNITED that
God's Spiritual OPERATION { 1 Corinthians 12:13 KJB!} Is THE
ONE BAPTISM For
us, Today, Under GOD's PURE GRACE, Have
NO problems at all!

b) Those, Under GRACE, who acknowledge The Spiritual Application
of
1 Corinthians 12:13 KJB {Notice 3 ONEs!}, BUT, Then:

ADD/marry water to God's Equation, have the {1=2} math problem,
And, then, other problems, too { Already Mentioned in water problems }.

c) Worst of all?:
The baptismal regenerationists who believe WATER "makes contact"
With The Precious BLOOD Of CHRIST, For God's Eternal Salvation, are
sadly mistaken and deceived, Correct? How can they be saved?

Thus b) and c) can hardly be "an open and outright testimony
to the world, the example is through water."

(4)
a) water baptism is a solid christian ONE-TIME{?} testimony "to the world"???

Hardly! - IF it said to be a testimony in "in the LOCAL congregation,"
that is one thing, But Not Until recently, with the advent of
the internet,
can "this testimony published throughout the world!"

b) Then, imagine those who "USED to have this so-called testimony,"
but NOW "are fallen from GRACE"? How does that work as a testimony?

Conclusion:
For an "open and outright Testimony to the world," wouldn't the BEST
example
Be through God's Continuous Way," And, "Approved Unto HIM!"?:

"Fulfilling ALL The Law" {Including the OT "ritual of water"},
In "ONE Word!: LOVE!":
*(Galatians 5 : 14; Romans 13 : 8-10 KJB!)* Amen?​
Is not this "THE open and outright testimony" that
THE WORLD wishes The Body Of CHRIST would SHOW
them, Instead Of Mass Confusion/Division???

Rightly Dividing The Word Of Truth {is here}: vs water Discrepancies

water baptism testimony vs liquor contest problem is in #80

Be Blessed!

PS: All of These ONEs wouldn't have Anything to do with God's
ONE "apostle of GRACE, Paul," Or Would they be THE PERFECT
Representation of such, For the ONE Body of CHRIST, And Also,
its ONE {Spiritual} BAPTISM?


vs
?TWELVE apostleS Representing TWELVE tribes of Israel, and its
OT "ritual" water for remission of sin/induction Into the "priesthood!"
{MIXING these up is a PROBLEM, Eh?}:


FULL "studies":
here: 12 baptisms & here: ONE Baptism
 

FlyingDove

Senior Member
Dec 27, 2017
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Since when is the greek an unknown forum source?

You can stil with whatever your heart desires.. Just know your eternity may be at stake, You better do all you can to find the right answer.
Thanks for your concern for my eternal life. I will place that outcome 100% in Jesus hands. By Faith placed in His Sin payment & resurrection.

Old covenant to new covenant transition, Acts records this time frame. Both covenants are, for a period of time, actively operational. Starting in Acts 10. After the destruction of the Temple only one possible path to salvation remains.

The repent & be baptized to received the Holy Spirit order. Salvation/sin redemption thru Messiah is 100% for Israel. The baptism of John, Holy Spirit outpouring at the 1st post resurrection Pentecost. This message is 100% for the Nation of Israel.

This Nation of Israel only order to repent & be baptized to received the Holy Spirit. Continues for years until Cornelius house Acts 10. When the door of salvation is opened to gentiles. It's here years later where there's is a doctrinal shift.

The repent & be baptized to received the Holy Spirit. Changes with the gentile outpouring. To believe & by faith alone & receive the Holy Spirit baptism 1st. And void of any needed ties to & Mosaic law.
 

AandW

Well-known member
Jun 9, 2021
1,711
383
83
Precious friend, creates Problems:

(1) Bad math! Today, Under GRACE {Romans - Philemon KJB!), there is only
ONE BAPTISM! (Ephesians 4:5 KJB!)
ADDing water = TWO baptismS! Is this
"Approved Unto God"?

(2) Teaching water As The ONE baptism, Destroys the
Spiritual UNITY Of God's SEVEN ONEs In:

Ephesians 4:3-6 KJB!:
3 Endeavouring to keep the UNITY of the Spirit in the bond of peace.
4 There is one body, and ONE Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope
of your calling;
5 one Lord, one faith, ONE BAPTISM,
6 one God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in
you all.

Would you understand This As SIX Spiritual, And one physical?
How then would that be: UNITY of the Spirit? Little wonder then
that multiplied denominations are Severely DIVIDED over water?

(3)
a) Thus, those who acknowledge, And Are UNITED that
God's Spiritual OPERATION { 1 Corinthians 12:13 KJB!} Is THE
ONE BAPTISM For
us, Today, Under GOD's PURE GRACE, Have
NO problems at all!

b) Those, Under GRACE, who acknowledge The Spiritual Application
of
1 Corinthians 12:13 KJB {Notice 3 ONEs!}, BUT, Then:

ADD/marry water to God's Equation, have the {1=2} math problem,
And, then, other problems, too { Already Mentioned in water problems }.

c) Worst of all?:
The baptismal regenerationists who believe WATER "makes contact"
With The Precious BLOOD Of CHRIST, For God's Eternal Salvation, are
sadly mistaken and deceived, Correct? How can they be saved?

Thus b) and c) can hardly be "an open and outright testimony
to the world, the example is through water."

(4)
a) water baptism is a solid christian ONE-TIME{?} testimony "to the world"???

Hardly! - IF it said to be a testimony in "in the LOCAL congregation,"
that is one thing, But Not Until recently, with the advent of
the internet,
can "this testimony published throughout the world!"

b) Then, imagine those who "USED to have this so-called testimony,"
but NOW "are fallen from GRACE"? How does that work as a testimony?

Conclusion:
For an "open and outright Testimony to the world," wouldn't the BEST
example
Be through God's Continuous Way," And, "Approved Unto HIM!"?:

"Fulfilling ALL The Law" {Including the OT "ritual of water"},
In "ONE Word!: LOVE!":
*(Galatians 5 : 14; Romans 13 : 8-10 KJB!)* Amen?​
Is not this "THE open and outright testimony" that
THE WORLD wishes The Body Of CHRIST would SHOW
them, Instead Of Mass Confusion/Division???

Rightly Dividing The Word Of Truth {is here}: vs water Discrepancies

water baptism testimony vs liquor contest problem is in #80

Be Blessed!

PS: All of These ONEs wouldn't have Anything to do with God's
ONE "apostle of GRACE, Paul," Or Would they be THE PERFECT
Representation of such, For the ONE Body of CHRIST, And Also,
its ONE {Spiritual} BAPTISM?


vs
?TWELVE apostleS Representing TWELVE tribes of Israel, and its
OT "ritual" water for remission of sin/induction Into the "priesthood!"
{MIXING these up is a PROBLEM, Eh?}:


FULL "studies":
here: 12 baptisms & here: ONE Baptism
Baptism in Water and Spirit are a chain action of one another, not 2 Baptisms total.
 
Mar 14, 2011
76,430
17,681
113
Thanks for your concern for my eternal life. I will place that outcome 100% in Jesus hands. By Faith placed in His Sin payment & resurrection.
Don’t forget all your works, like water baptism, you can’t leave them out, thats what you have been preaching Jesus plus!!!

Old covenant to new covenant transition, Acts records this time frame. Both covenants are, for a period of time, actively operational. Starting in Acts 10. After the destruction of the Temple only one possible path to salvation remains.

The repent & be baptized to received the Holy Spirit order. Salvation/sin redemption thru Messiah is 100% for Israel. The baptism of John, Holy Spirit outpouring at the 1st post resurrection Pentecost. This message is 100% for the Nation of Israel.

This Nation of Israel only order to repent & be baptized to received the Holy Spirit. Continues for years until Cornelius house Acts 10. When the door of salvation is opened to gentiles. It's here years later where there's is a doctrinal shift.

The repent & be baptized to received the Holy Spirit. Changes with the gentile outpouring. To believe & by faith alone & receive the Holy Spirit baptism 1st. And void of any needed ties to & Mosaic law.
you should study galations and other passages. We are under the abrahamic covenant the covenant of grace. Who was told the Gentiles would receive grace through his seed, and all the nations would be blessed.

the mosaic covenant which came 400 some odd years later did not annul that Covenant. all People are and have always been saved by that same faith abraham after God made him that promised and Abraham believed god and it was accounted to him as righteousness,

his forgiveness came by faith, just as david did. As just after his grave sins he said blessed is the man to whome God does not impute sin.

God did not add water baptism to the equation, especially after the whole list of works of the law could not help anyone be saved, he did not replace those works or add water baptism

no one has ever been saved by water baptism. No one ever will
 

Wansvic

Well-known member
Nov 27, 2018
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zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

I don't come under your or anyone else's condemnation. I am free in Christ and neither you nor any other baptismal regeneration false teacher are going to make any dent

I've been at this since I am 5 thank you very much and been around more than one block

grow up and quit with the false and very silly ridiculous false accusations

I can assure you I am way past being either insulted or alarmed by your crowing on the rooftop
One does not have to believe in the Catholic concept of “baptismal regeneration” in order to acknowledge that there is a relationship between water immersion and forgiveness, in the passages cited above.

The Principle Involved
Perhaps it would be helpful if we would illustrate, by other cases in the Scriptures, the principle that is involved in this relationship.

The Case of Naaman
Naaman was an officer in the Syrian army, but he was woefully afflicted with the dreaded disease leprosy. The prophet Elisha bade him go “wash” in the Jordan river, promising that he would be “clean.” Finally, after some equivocation, the captain thus did, and his flesh was restored (2 Kgs. 5:14).

Certainly there was no merit in Jordan’s water, and there is no textual suggestion that Namaan was disposed to trust in the efficacy of the river; he simply came to a state of confidence in the prophet’s message. There was no “water healing” in this case. But who, thinking rationally, could deny that his restoration was dependent upon submission to the divine command?

The Man Born Blind
Jesus once encountered a man who had been blind since birth. The Lord spat upon the ground and made a clay potion, anointing the man’s eyes. He then commissioned the gentleman to: “Go, wash in the pool of Siloam” (Jn. 9:7). The man obeyed; he washed, and came away seeing.

Was there medicinal value in Siloam’s water? Of course not. Should the blind man have refused the Savior’s command? What if he had reasoned in this fashion: “If I go and wash, that will suggest that I am trusting in water. I do not believe in ‘washing restoration.’ I do not wish to ‘merit’ my sight. Therefore, I will simply trust in Jesus’ power to heal, and refrain from going to Siloam.” Just what would have been the result?

Perhaps the following chart will help to put things in focus with reference to the connection between baptism and salvation, and the order of their occurrence, in the scriptural plan.

The Biblical Order

Baptism
Salvation (Mk. 16:16)
Born of Water
Enter Kingdom (Jn. 3:5)
Baptism
Remission of Sins (Acts 2:38)
Baptism
Washing (Acts 22:16)
Baptism
Death of Christ (Rom. 6:3)
Washed
Justified (1 Cor. 6:11)
Baptism
Body of Christ (1 Cor. 12:13)
Baptism
Clothed With Christ (Gal. 3:27)
Washing of Water
Cleansed (Eph. 5:26)
Baptism
Working of God (Col. 2:12)
Washing of Regeneration
Saved (Tit. 3:5)
Baptism
Saved (1 Pet. 3:21)
Conclusion
Even when one has done precisely as the Lord commands, he has merited nothing; he has earned nothing. The fact that we are saved by God’s grace does not negate human responsibility in accepting Heaven’s gift, and one’s refusal to do what is clearly commanded by the Son of God, or to assign it a subordinate status, is not justified.

Those who speak in opposition to New Testament baptism, contradicting the sacred writings, will have a heavy judgment to bear.
 

Wansvic

Well-known member
Nov 27, 2018
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Yep

and God said to be baptized, not forsake the assembly of yourself, give, feed the poor, pray without ceasing, obey his commands, all these works of righteousness he commands us to do

yet as paul said, it was NOT by works of righteousness which we have done but by his mercy he saved us by the washing and renewal of the spirit

you want to earn gods mercy by replacing the washing of regeneration with water baptism.m good luck my friend. I will pray for you
You fail to realize that belief, repentance, water baptism and receiving the Holy Ghost are exclusive to the spiritual rebirth process according to the word. The other actions you mention are expected behaviors from those who are born again.
 

Wansvic

Well-known member
Nov 27, 2018
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Eph 1:13
In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

Paul's comments clearly reference the word of truth the gospel of salvation first heard, believed and acted upon on the Day of Pentecost.
 
Mar 14, 2011
76,430
17,681
113
You fail to realize that belief, repentance, water baptism and receiving the Holy Ghost are exclusive to the spiritual rebirth process according to the word. The other actions you mention are expected behaviors from those who are born again.
Nope

Water baptism is not included

Spirit baptism however is. Titus 3 says we were saved by the washing and new birth of the HS. not by the pastor or priest;
 
Mar 14, 2011
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113
Eph 1:13
In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

Paul's comments clearly reference the word of truth the gospel of salvation first heard, believed and acted upon on the Day of Pentecost.
The day of pentecost had nothign to do with eph 1. He was speaking to people in the city of the Ephesian church and what happened to them when they heard the word of truth and believed.
 

Wansvic

Well-known member
Nov 27, 2018
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Then you lied

you are teaching water baptism and repentance grants the person the Hs like I said
I did not lie. What I said was all things stated in Acts 2:38 are required in order to receive the NT spiritual rebirth.

A person can receive the Holy Ghost before or after water baptism. Getting water baptized does not AUTOMATICALLY prompt the infilling of the Holy Ghost. This is a clearly established in Acts 2:1-4 (Holy Ghost 1st), 8:8:12-18 (water baptism days before receiving Holy Ghost), 10:44-48, (Holy Ghost 1st) 19:1-5 (water baptism 1st).

What is consistent in all cases is the message was responded to by the people as seen in their actions. They believed, repented, and submitted to water baptism. And God provided the infilling of the Holy Ghost.
 
Mar 14, 2011
76,430
17,681
113
I did not lie. What I said was all things stated in Acts 2:38 are required in order to receive the NT spiritual rebirth.

A person can receive the Holy Ghost before or after water baptism. Getting water baptized does not AUTOMATICALLY prompt the infilling of the Holy Ghost. This is a clearly established in Acts 2:1-4 (Holy Ghost 1st), 8:8:12-18 (water baptism days before receiving Holy Ghost), 10:44-48, (Holy Ghost 1st) 19:1-5 (water baptism 1st).

What is consistent in all cases is the message was responded to by the people as seen in their actions. They believed, repented, and submitted to water baptism. And God provided the infilling of the Holy Ghost.
1. the holy spirit is given as a pledge or seal after one believes. Not after one is baptised
2. The anointing of the spirit occures after baptism. Just not water baptism. It is the spiritual baptism performed by God himself (col 2 and titus 3)
 

TheLearner

Well-known member
Jan 14, 2019
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So,do,you think because of this, the jews were required to be baptized to,recieve remission of sin as some here proclaim, or do you think like many of us, that it is just a symbol of what God does to us when he saves us
No, ritual cleansing by God is part of their culture. I see any ritual as part of the good works of Eph 2:10. Because of the culture it was natural for him to do a ritual cleansing. God would honor it because it was done by faith not by his own works to go to heaven. The key to Acts 2:38 is that whatever was done was done in the name of Jesus thus by his authority. Romans 14 has a parallel in thinking, what ever you do, do it onto the Lord to glorify him.

5 One person esteems one day as better than another, while another esteems all days alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind. 6 The one who observes the day, observes it in honor of the Lord. The one who eats, eats in honor of the Lord, since he gives thanks to God, while the one who abstains, abstains in honor of the Lord and gives thanks to God. 7 For none of us lives to himself, and none of us dies to himself. 8 For if we live, we live to the Lord, and if we die, we die to the Lord. So then, whether we live or whether we die, we are the Lord's. 9 For to this end Christ died and lived again, that he might be Lord both of the dead and of the living.

Do All Things for the Glory of God – 1 Corinthians 10:31

Colossians 3:17
Holman Christian Standard Bible
17 And whatever you do, in word or in deed, do everything in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father through Him.

1 Corinthians 10:31
Holman Christian Standard Bible
31 Therefore, whether you eat or drink, or whatever you do, do everything for God’s glory.

The key of his actions of faith is he was doing it for the honor and glory of God and Jesus.

"in the name" is a idiom for doing something by the authority of someone.

https://www.openbible.info/topics/doing_all_to_the_glory_of_god

https://www.biblegateway.com/quicksearch/?quicksearch="in+the+name"&version=KJV
concerning "in the name of" consider the verses in the search above.

The key to book of James is simply like in Hebrews 11 good works is a proof or display of faith in God.

Once, I was nervous about flying. Someone asked me if I had faith that the Pilot knew what he was doing?
I asked him if he had enough faith to fly outside on the wing?