The perennial Acts 2.38 confusion .

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JBTN

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Feb 11, 2020
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Acts 10:47-48
Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.
See how Thayer’s Lexicon translates this passage below.

Thayer's Greek Lexicon
STRONGS NT 2967: κωλύω

κωλύω; imperfect 1 person plural ἐκωλύομεν (Mark 9:38 T Tr text WH); 1 aorist ἐκώλυσα; passive, present κωλύομαι; 1 aorist ἐκωλύθην; (from κόλος, lopped, clipped; properly, to cut off, cut short, hence) to hinder, prevent, forbid; (from Pindar down); the Sept. for כָּלָא, twice (viz. 1 Samuel 25:26; 2 Samuel 13:13) for מָנַע : τινα followed by an infinitive (Winer's Grammar, § 65, 2 β.; cf. Buttmann, § 148,13), Matthew 19:14; Luke 23:2; Acts 16:6; Acts 24:23; 1 Thessalonians 2:16; Hebrews 7:23; τί κωλύειμε βαπτισθῆναι; what doth binder me from being (to be) baptized? Acts 8:36; the infinitive is omitted, as being evident from what has gone before, Mark 9:38; Mark 10:14; Luke 9:49; Luke 11:52; Luke 18:16; Acts 11:17; Romans 1:13; 3 John 1:10; αὐτόν is lacking, because it has preceded, Luke 9:50; the accusative is lacking, because easily supplied from the context, 1 Timothy 4:3; as often in Greek writings, construction with τινα τίνος, to keep one from a thing, Acts 27:43; with the accusative of the thing, τήνπαραφρονίαν, to restrain, check, 2 Peter 2:16; τό λαλεῖν γλωσαις, 1 Corinthians 14:39; τί, followed by τοῦ μή, can anyone hinder the water (which offers itself), that these should not be baptized? Acts 10:47; in imitation of the Hebrew כָּלָא followed by מִן of the person and the § of the thing, to withhold a thing from anyone, i. e. to deny or refuse one a thing: Luke 6:29 (Buttmann, § 132, 5) (τό μνημεῖον ἀπό σου, Genesis 23:6). (Compare: διακωλύω.)
 

ForestGreenCook

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Jul 8, 2018
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I disagree. Accepting something and obeying something are two different things.

Jesus said that repentance and remission of sin would be preached BEGINNING in Jerusalem. This message was first given on the Day of Pentecost by Peter. And if you will recall it was Peter who was given the KEYS of the kingdom by Jesus Himself. Jesus also said that unless a man is born of water and Spirit (keys) he cannot ENTER the kingdom.

Luke 24:46-47
And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:
And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.
The Kingdom of God is one of the names that the church is called by, it is not referring to heaven.
 

TheLearner

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Jan 14, 2019
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Acts 2:38 is not a command. Matthew 28:19 is a command to the apostles only. What is spoken of in the Didache was to those in the chain of command under the Apostles.

Didache historical source:
Chapter 7. Concerning Baptism
And concerning baptism, baptize this way: Having first said all these things, baptize into the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, Matthew 28:19 in living water. But if you have not living water, baptize into other water; and if you can not in cold, in warm. But if you have not either, pour out water thrice upon the head into the name of Father and Son and Holy Spirit. But before the baptism let the baptizer fast, and the baptized, and whatever others can; but you shall order the baptized to fast one or two days before.
https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0714.htm
 

throughfaith

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Aug 4, 2020
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The Kingdom of God is one of the names that the church is called by, it is not referring to heaven.
lol you can literally make anything say what you want with this approach . " yeah when it says locusts ,this means this is the Church " . " i know it says mountain but really this is the church " .
 

FlyingDove

Senior Member
Dec 27, 2017
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Since when is the greek an unknown forum source?

You can stil with whatever your heart desires.. Just know your eternity may be at stake, You better do all you can to find the right answer.
I shared 5 Bible sources that known translators confirmed what I posted. My unknown forum source statement was directed to you.

OT Hebrew word for atonement is kaphar & means "to cover over".

The Levitical system didn't offer a permanent solution to sin. It required repeated daily animal sacrifices (over & over & over), a covering, not a complete removal of sin.

Picture God's forbearance as a credit card, ultimately sins debt owed requires a payment in full.

Source Amplified Bible

Heb 10:

4 for it is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins

12 whereas Christ, having offered the one sacrifice [the all-sufficient sacrifice of Himself] for sins for all time, sat down [signifying the completion of atonement for sin] at the right hand of God [the position of honor],

13 waiting from that time onward until his enemies are made a footstool for His feet.

14 For by the one offering He has perfected forever and completely cleansed those who are being sanctified [bringing each believer to spiritual completion and maturity].

15 And the Holy Spirit also adds His testimony to us [in confirmation of this]; for after having said,

16 “This is the covenant that I will make with them After those days, says the Lord:
I will imprint My laws upon their heart, and on their mind I will inscribe them [producing an inward change],”

He then says,

17 “And their sins and their lawless acts I will remember no more [no longer holding their sins against them].”

18 Now where there is [absolute] forgiveness and complete cancellation of the penalty of these things, there is no longer any offering [to be made to atone] for sin.
Bible Gateway passage: Hebrews 10 - Amplified Bible

(MY NOTE: Neither water baptism nor OT animal sacrifices could/can "Take Away" sin. It's only Christ/God's sinless blood & faith placed in it, that conquered & "Takes Away" sin. Providing absolute forgiveness/remission/pardon/complete cancellation/Taking Away of ALL the believers/Past/Present/Future sin/ Once for all time)

Jn 1:29 The next day he saw Jesus coming to him and said, “Look! The Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world!
Bible Gateway passage: John 1 - Amplified Bible

(MY NOTE: John the Baptist proclaims: It's Jesus that "Takes Away" the worlds sin.)

When you read OT & it says through these sacrifices your sins will be forgiven. The question is, WHEN, will they be forgiven. When you read in the NT: for the remission of sin. Same question, WHEN,
will this remission = forgiveness/pardon/complete cancellation/Taking Away of sin happen?

Answer: When faith is placed a sinless God/Christ's once for all time sin sacrifice & resurrection!

Acts 19:4 Paul said, “John performed a baptism of repentance, continually telling the people to believe in Him who was coming after him, that is, [to confidently accept and joyfully believe] in Jesus [the Messiah and Savior].
Acts 19 AMP - Paul at Ephesus - It happened that - Bible Gateway

(MY NOTE: BELIEVE in your coming Messiah/Redeemer. Later, Peter (Acts 2) has everyone be baptized in the ALL Authoritative Name. Every meaningful baptism must invoke BELIEF/FAITH the Name that is above every name(Phil 2:9). Water is just water, Faith in the Name of Jesus, His sacrifice & resurrection is Everything!)

All praise, glory & honor be to our great God & Savior, Jesus the Christ! AMEN & amen...
 

mailmandan

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Apr 7, 2014
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It is like a Marriage in the sense you must be Baptized into the Spirit to be filled with the Holy Spirit and [I'm using a perfect definition I found here] When you get married, you have two people working towards a successful marriage (hopefully) and when we are water baptized, most ceremonies include a promise on the part of the congregation to pray for and build up the new believer in their your journey towards perfect union with Christ.
Speaking of marriage, a man and a woman become united through their wedding vows and the ring symbolizes this. Just as we become united with Christ through faith and water baptism symbolizes this.

Strictly speaking, the husband is united to his wife because of the marriage vows rather than the ring. Yet since the latter is the sign of their union, it is natural to speak of the ring to mean the reality it represents. "With this ring, I thee wed," although the ring is not the actual cause of the change in the marital status, just like water baptism is not the actual cause of our salvation status.

Baptism is a symbol of salvation in that it pictures Christ's death, burial and resurrection and our identification with Him in these experiences. In reality, believers are literally saved by what baptism symbolizes--Christ's death, burial and resurrection.

Baptism would have no meaning without Christ’s death, burial and resurrection, but Christ’s death, burial and resurrection would still have meaning, even if there were no baptism. In other words, Christ’s death, burial and resurrection is the substance and baptism is the sign/symbol/picture. Without the substance there would be no sign/symbol/picture.
 

mailmandan

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Apr 7, 2014
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Of course an individual must accept Jesus' death, burial and resurrection. Without having faith in that would make one's obedience to the commands associated with it pointless.
Sadly, too many people merely believe "mental assent" that the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus "happened" (and even the demons believe that) but they don't trust in the death, burial and resurrection of Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of their salvation. (Romans 1:16; 1 Corinthians 15:1-4) Instead, such people trust in water baptism (and other works) to save them and receive water baptism with a spurious faith and end up coming up out of the water as a wet sinner who is still in unbelief. (2 Corinthians 4:3,4)
 

mailmandan

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Apr 7, 2014
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The fact that we are saved by God’s grace does not negate human responsibility in accepting Heaven’s gift, and one’s refusal to do what is clearly commanded by the Son of God, or to assign it a subordinate status, is not justified.
We accept Heaven's gift by grace through faith and not by works. (Ephesians 2:8,9)

Those who speak in opposition to New Testament baptism, contradicting the sacred writings, will have a heavy judgment to bear.
Speak in opposition to New Testament baptism in general or to your legalistic formula for salvation involving water baptism? John 3:18 (NASB) - The one who believes in Him is not judged; (condemned) the one who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God. Unbelievers (whether they have been water baptized or not) will have a heavy judgment to bear.

John 3:18 - He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who (is not water baptized? - NO) does not believe is condemned already, because he has not (been water baptized? - NO) because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Baptism put it in it's proper place, subsequent to salvation through faith in Christ as all works must be. This does not remove good works (including water baptism) from the Christian life, it just puts them in their proper place, subsequent to regeneration and salvation. (Acts 10:43-47; Ephesians 2:10)
 

AandW

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Jun 9, 2021
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Speaking of marriage, a man and a woman become united through their wedding vows and the ring symbolizes this. Just as we become united with Christ through faith and water baptism symbolizes this.

Strictly speaking, the husband is united to his wife because of the marriage vows rather than the ring. Yet since the latter is the sign of their union, it is natural to speak of the ring to mean the reality it represents. "With this ring, I thee wed," although the ring is not the actual cause of the change in the marital status, just like water baptism is not the actual cause of our salvation status.

Baptism is a symbol of salvation in that it pictures Christ's death, burial and resurrection and our identification with Him in these experiences. In reality, believers are literally saved by what baptism symbolizes--Christ's death, burial and resurrection.

Baptism would have no meaning without Christ’s death, burial and resurrection, but Christ’s death, burial and resurrection would still have meaning, even if there were no baptism. In other words, Christ’s death, burial and resurrection is the substance and baptism is the sign/symbol/picture. Without the substance there would be no sign/symbol/picture.
Absolutely brilliant!
That really says it all!
 

ForestGreenCook

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Jul 8, 2018
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lol you can literally make anything say what you want with this approach . " yeah when it says locusts ,this means this is the Church " . " i know it says mountain but really this is the church " .
There are people, because of the nature of their sins, that will not be accepted into the Kingdom of God, the church, but will be accepted into heaven.
 

Wansvic

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Nov 27, 2018
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You missed the point

Peter did not say he could not withstand God. He asked the question. Who was I that I could withstand God.

withstand greek Koylo - to hinder, to prevent, to forbid.

Peter literally said who am I that I should hinder God from saving the gentiles.

A deeper study would help you in areas such as these.
Peter commanded the group be water baptized after seeing God give them His Spirit. Since the word states that one's personal sin is remitted in water baptism, obedience was required to comply with God's mandate. That was my point.
 

Wansvic

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Nov 27, 2018
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As SophieT so kindly pointed out, I neglected to cite the excerpt I posted from Christiancourier in Post #233. Thank you Sophie.
First of all Wansvic, you need to give credit to whatever site you copy/pasted this from. You obviously did not write the above even though you are persuaded by it. Those who plagiarize the words of others, may also have a heavy judgment to bear.

I mean honestly Wansvic, who are you trying to fool here?
 
Feb 22, 2021
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Instead, such people trust in water baptism (and other works) to save them and receive water baptism with a spurious faith and end up coming up out of the water as a wet sinner who is still in unbelief. (2 Corinthians 4:3,4)
Precious friend:
Is not this the Very Reason God Only Has ONE BAPTISM Today?
And Also to Eliminate
Satan's Confusion, The MAIN "Divider" of water denominations?: IF God Said "yes" water IS FOR Today, then:

WHICH of these is correct {finding the RIGHT denomination to JOIN?}:

1) believe AND be baptized
{i.e. immersion to contact their Christ's blood}?

(2) immersion with a symbolic interpretation?

(3) immersion ONCE in the "name of Jesus?

(4) immersion THRICE in the "name of the Triune Godhead?

(5) immersion {whether once or thrice} for "membership" in
their traditional assembly?

(6) sprinkling water on babies inducting them into religion
washing away their original sin?

(7) sprinkling water on babies inducting them into some covenant?

(8) sprinkling water on babies inducting them into their parent's custody
that they promise to raise them right? {into Mass Confusion?}

(9) sprinkling water on babies, admitting that their ritual is
UNscriptural, but "we do it anyway, because it is OUR tradition!"?

(10) pouring water onto babies or adults for Whatever
traditional reason religion "can come up with"?

Conclusion:
God's Answer Of "NO water For Today," IMMEDIATELY And Absolutely:

Vanquishes Satan's Confusion Of Contradictions Into OBLIVION!
Correct?

Summary is in post #2 / FULL "studies":
Prophecy/Law ISRAEL = 12 baptisms

Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2:15!) From “Things That DIFFER!:

MYSTERY/GRACE Body Of CHRIST = ONE Baptism

Be Blessed!
 
Mar 14, 2011
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Peter commanded the group be water baptized after seeing God give them His Spirit. Since the word states that one's personal sin is remitted in water baptism, obedience was required to comply with God's mandate. That was my point.
They got the HS because their sins were already remitted.

the HS can not enter a body under the penalty of sin.

water baptism occured after they were already washed by the Hs.

not after not during
 

TheLearner

Well-known member
Jan 14, 2019
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I shared 5 Bible sources that known translators confirmed what I posted. My unknown forum source statement was directed to you.

OT Hebrew word for atonement is kaphar & means "to cover over".

The Levitical system didn't offer a permanent solution to sin. It required repeated daily animal sacrifices (over & over & over), a covering, not a complete removal of sin.

Picture God's forbearance as a credit card, ultimately sins debt owed requires a payment in full.

Source Amplified Bible

Heb 10:

4 for it is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins

12 whereas Christ, having offered the one sacrifice [the all-sufficient sacrifice of Himself] for sins for all time, sat down [signifying the completion of atonement for sin] at the right hand of God [the position of honor],

13 waiting from that time onward until his enemies are made a footstool for His feet.

14 For by the one offering He has perfected forever and completely cleansed those who are being sanctified [bringing each believer to spiritual completion and maturity].

15 And the Holy Spirit also adds His testimony to us [in confirmation of this]; for after having said,

16 “This is the covenant that I will make with them After those days, says the Lord:
I will imprint My laws upon their heart, and on their mind I will inscribe them [producing an inward change],”

He then says,

17 “And their sins and their lawless acts I will remember no more [no longer holding their sins against them].”

18 Now where there is [absolute] forgiveness and complete cancellation of the penalty of these things, there is no longer any offering [to be made to atone] for sin.
Bible Gateway passage: Hebrews 10 - Amplified Bible

(MY NOTE: Neither water baptism nor OT animal sacrifices could/can "Take Away" sin. It's only Christ/God's sinless blood & faith placed in it, that conquered & "Takes Away" sin. Providing absolute forgiveness/remission/pardon/complete cancellation/Taking Away of ALL the believers/Past/Present/Future sin/ Once for all time)

Jn 1:29 The next day he saw Jesus coming to him and said, “Look! The Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world!
Bible Gateway passage: John 1 - Amplified Bible

(MY NOTE: John the Baptist proclaims: It's Jesus that "Takes Away" the worlds sin.)

When you read OT & it says through these sacrifices your sins will be forgiven. The question is, WHEN, will they be forgiven. When you read in the NT: for the remission of sin. Same question, WHEN,
will this remission = forgiveness/pardon/complete cancellation/Taking Away of sin happen?

Answer: When faith is placed a sinless God/Christ's once for all time sin sacrifice & resurrection!

Acts 19:4 Paul said, “John performed a baptism of repentance, continually telling the people to believe in Him who was coming after him, that is, [to confidently accept and joyfully believe] in Jesus [the Messiah and Savior].
Acts 19 AMP - Paul at Ephesus - It happened that - Bible Gateway

(MY NOTE: BELIEVE in your coming Messiah/Redeemer. Later, Peter (Acts 2) has everyone be baptized in the ALL Authoritative Name. Every meaningful baptism must invoke BELIEF/FAITH the Name that is above every name(Phil 2:9). Water is just water, Faith in the Name of Jesus, His sacrifice & resurrection is Everything!)

All praise, glory & honor be to our great God & Savior, Jesus the Christ! AMEN & amen...
https://www.sdmorrison.org/7-theories-of-the-atonement-summarized/
https://um-insight.net/perspectives/confronting-atonement/
https://www3.nd.edu/~jspeaks/courses/2017-18/24810/handouts/atonement.pdf
https://andrewspringer.medium.com/five-views-on-the-atonement-of-christ-d71dddca9b84
https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/02055a.htm
https://www.jstor.org/stable/43048601
http://www.crosswalknapa.org/blog/2020/5/15/embracing-an-alternative-orthodoxy-atonement-theology
https://www.plts.edu/faculty-staff/documents/ite_models_atonement.pdf
https://breakinginthehabit.org/2020/12/07/understanding-atonement-theology/
https://hackingchristianity.net/2013/03/primer-on-atonement-theories.html