The Pre-Tribulation Rapture: The Blessed Hope of the Saints

BenjaminN · Dec 16, 2020

Read Matthew 24 followed by Revelation 20 and find the chronology as given in God's ordered word, without switching the order: (Great tribulation -> Son of Man in the clouds of heaven -> The body of Christ alive at the time, with the dead in Christ resurrected meets Christ in the clouds -> The remainder of the people on earth is destroyed -> Christ descends with his resurrected and alive elect from the last generation to earth -> 1000 years Millennial kingdom commence -> At the end of the 1000 years Millennial kingdom the battle of Gog and Magog takes place with Christ Yeshua and the saints conquering -> The remainder of the dead is resurrected -> The great throne judgement-> The damned go to the lake of fire -> The old heaven and earth dissolves, and the new heaven and new earth is introduced, where God's elect dwells with him and Christ Yeshua for eternity

Matthew 24 (New King James Version)
29“Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His [d]elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. 39... so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. 40Then two men will be in the field: one will be taken and the other left ("behind"). 41Two women will be grinding at the mill: one will be taken and the other left ("behind").

Revelation 20 (New King James Version)
4Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for [a]a thousand years. 5But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. 7Now when the thousand years have expired, Satan will be released from his prison 8and will go out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle, whose number is as the sand of the sea. 9They went up on the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city. And fire came down from God out of heaven and devoured them. 12And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before [c]God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books.
Revelation 21 (New King James Version)
1Now I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away. 3And I heard a loud voice from heaven saying, “Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they shall be His people. God Himself will be with them and be their God.

TheDivineWatermark · Dec 16, 2020

awelight said:

If you study the Scripture a little closer, you will find the ones being gathered are the ones going into judgement before the Kingdom is established. The ones left are the ones entering into the Kingdom.

Neither are the members of Christ's body - the church.

Yes.

TheDivineWatermark · Dec 16, 2020

--Matt24:36-42 (one taken, the other left)... one must understand that the "one taken" is "taken away in judgment" (just as in Noah's day) and this corresponds (time-wise) with the Matt13's [said to the ANGELS] "gather ye FIRST the TARES" time-slot... Thus, they are gathered BY THE ANGELS ("to be burned"...)... i.e. "taken" (but BY THEM / the ANGELS--to "judgment")

--Matt24:29-31 = Isa27:12-13 ("to worship the Lord in the holy mount AT JERUSALEM")--these remain on the earth (are "left" [on the earth--just as in Noah's day (Gen9:1 "fill the earth")] to ENTER the earthly MK age [comp. the "filled the whole earth" wording in Dan2:35])

[NEITHER of these pertains to "our Rapture" nor its timing]

BenjaminN · Dec 16, 2020

awelight said:

TheDivineWatermark said:

God's elect is gathered to meet Christ Yeshua in the clouds (immediately after the great tribulation). So they are not destroyed with the rest of the damned left ("behind") on earth, who took the mark of the anti-christ beast.

Matthew 24 (New King James Version)
29“Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His [d]elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. 39 so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. 40Then two men will be in the field: one will be taken and the other left ("behind"). 41Two women will be grinding at the mill: one will be taken and the other left. ("behind") 4

BenjaminN · Dec 16, 2020

TheDivineWatermark said:

The verse in Matthew 24 where Christ Yeshua orders his angels to gather, he says to gather his elect, God's elect is not the tares, it is the corn of God's great tribulation's tribulum (threshing-sledge) harvest.

Matthew 24 (New King James Version)
29“Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His [d]elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. 39 so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. 40Then two men will be in the field: one will be taken and the other left ("behind"). 41Two women will be grinding at the mill: one will be taken and the other left. ("behind")

TheDivineWatermark · Dec 16, 2020

BenjaminN said:

Again, in this passage, it is AS IN THE DAYS OF NOAH... and in that case, it was like this:

--"and THEY KNEW NOT UNTIL the flood came and took THEM all away" (it was NOT "Noah" who "knew not until" [he "prepared the ark"!!--heeded God's Word!!]; it was "THEY": the ones "TAKEN AWAY IN JUDGMENT" who "knew not UNTIL"... Noah (and crew) were "LEFT" to "FILL the earth" Gen9:1 (just like Dan2:35--at the time of Christ's Second Coming to the earth)

So, again... my previous post (maybe you didn't see it):

--Matt24:36-42 (one taken, the other left)... one must understand that the "one taken" is "taken away in judgment" (just as in Noah's day) and this corresponds (time-wise) with the Matt13's [said to the ANGELS] "gather ye FIRST the TARES" time-slot... Thus, they are gathered BY THE ANGELS ("to be burned"...)... i.e. "taken" (but BY THEM / the ANGELS--to "judgment")

--Matt24:29-31 = Isa27:12-13 ("to worship the Lord in the holy mount AT JERUSALEM")--these remain on the earth (are "left" [on the earth--just as in Noah's day (Gen9:1 "fill the earth")] to ENTER the earthly MK age [comp. the "filled the whole earth" wording in Dan2:35])

[NEITHER of these pertains to "our Rapture [IN THE AIR]" nor its timing]--and to add: The Olivet Discourse is not covering the Subject of "our Rapture" AT ALL... but is covering the Subject (instead) of the events surrounding "His Second Coming to the earth, FOR the promised and prophesied earthly Millennial Kingdom"

BenjaminN · Dec 16, 2020

TheDivineWatermark said:

I am going to differ from you on this, God's elect is not gathered (taken) for judgement, so that God's non-elect may inherit his millennial kingdom (left). I stand by God's elect is gathered (taken) to him in the clouds, while God's non-elect is left ("behind") for destruction at Christ Yeshua's second coming, before Christ Yeshua descends with his elect to the earth for Christ Yeshua's millennial kingdom here on earth.

Good night.

Matthew 24 (New King James Version)
29“Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His [d]elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. 39 so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. 40Then two men will be in the field: one will be taken and the other left ("behind"). 41Two women will be grinding at the mill: one will be taken and the other left. ("behind")

BenjaminN · Dec 16, 2020

https://www.amazon.com/Zions-Sake-Christian-Zionism-Evangelical/dp/1556358075
For Zion's Sake: Christian Zionism and the Role of John Nelson Darby (Studies in Evangelical History and Thought) Paperback - December 1, 2008 by Paul R. Wilkinson

From: https://www.equip.org/article/a-biblical-response-to-christian-zionism/
Synopsis
Christian Zionism—which predates secular Zionism by more than half a century—is constructed along two major theological fault lines. First, Christian Zionists are convinced that the land promises God made to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob are as yet unfulfilled. The principal flaw here is a failure to recognize that all the types and shadows of the Old Covenant, including the holy land of Israel, the holy city Jerusalem, and the holy temple, have been fulfilled in the holy Christ. Second, at the heart of Christian Zionism is the dispensational notion that God has two distinct people, one of whom must be raptured before He can continue His plan with the other. Scripture, however, reveals one chosen people who form one covenant community, beautifully symbolized as one cultivated olive tree.

https://oxford.universitypressschol...3246.001.0001/acprof-9780199993246-chapter-08
A primary question is whether Darby's intentionally non-political thought can be considered the sufficient cause of twenty-first century Christian Zionism. Keywords: John Nelson Darby , Napoleon , restoration in unbelief , mormonism , premillennial dispensationalism , rapture , teaching of contempt

TheDivineWatermark · Dec 16, 2020

BenjaminN said:

Well, to be clear, THAT ^ is not at all what *I* said, if that's what you are suggesting I said.

Please re-read, more carefully.

I'm pointing out WHO is DOING the "paralambanó [taken]" IN THAT TEXT... it is the ANGELS who are told to "GATHER YE *FIRST* the TARES" (this is NOT at the "RAPTURE [IN THE AIR]"-time-slot, but at His Second Coming TO THE EARTH)

3880 paralambánō (from 3844 /pará, "from close-alongside" and 2983 /lambánō, "aggressively take") – to take (receive) by showing strong personal initiative.

BenjaminN · Dec 16, 2020

TheDivineWatermark said:

You said:

"--Matt24:36-42 (one taken, the other left)... one must understand that the "one taken" is "taken away in judgment" (just as in Noah's day) and this corresponds (time-wise) with the Matt13's [said to the ANGELS] "gather ye FIRST the TARES" time-slot... Thus, they are gathered BY THE ANGELS ("to be burned"...)... i.e. "taken" (but BY THEM / the ANGELS--to "judgment") "

I do not agree, God's elect is "taken"/"gathered". And it is not for judgement, it is to meet with Christ Yeshua in the clouds.

Good night.

Matthew 24 (New King James Version)
29“Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His [d]elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. 39 so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. 40Then two men will be in the field: one will be taken and the other left ("behind"). 41Two women will be grinding at the mill: one will be taken and the other left. ("behind")

TheDivineWatermark · Dec 16, 2020

BenjaminN said:

You're not grasping who it is that is "taken" in this section, which is parallel to how [the way in which] "the days of Noah" took place (i.e. who it was that was "taken" in that event [and to what end], and who it was that was "left" in that event [and to what end--Gen9:1 (comp. Dan2:35c)]).
This view that you have is because you are not seeing "TIME" after this point in the chronology (which is not accurate).

[compare: Rev19:19,21/16:14-16/20:5 with the FIRST of TWO "PUNISH" words in Isa24:21-22a[23], and which is SEPARATED BY A PERIOD OF "TIME" before the SECOND of the TWO "PUNISH" words is carried out (the LATER GWTj)]

TheDivineWatermark · Dec 17, 2020

BenjaminN said:

That's not exactly what "the olive tree" symbolizes.

Let me guess... do you also hold to [the possibilities of] "losing-your-salvation" or "forfeiting-your-salvation" doctrines?

[quoting old post on "the olive tree"]

(note the phrase "God's governmental ways on earth," which is what I believe Roman's 11's "olive tree" represents):

[quoting Wigram]

"Gen. 27:29 [Isaac blessing Jacob]. Let peoples (gamnzim, pl.), serve thee and [manners or sorts of ] nations (l'ummim, pl.) bow down to thee: be lord [a mighty man] over thy brethren.
"Observe, this would not run the source of the division of people back to Shem, Ham and Japhet, so as to make the word to be equivalent to what we call the races of people, in connection with the Noahic earth, who constitute the whole human family. The subdivision here alluded to took place in the family of Isaac, type of the heir of promise, not earlier; and the heads of this subdivision are brought before us in Rom. 9 All God's ways and subdivisions are to be noted."

[also]
"f Israel is the goh'y of experience, promise, blessing on the earth; the center of all God's governmental ways on earth; but in saying that, I look at them from outside and as one whole. When they are owned as gammi, my people, their detailed state and associations within is the aspect in which they are considered."

--George V Wigram

http://bibletruthpublishers.com/heb...t-testimony-psalms-article/g-v-wigram/la61041

____________

[quoting that other article by Wigram]

"[re: Romans 11] In Jesus Christ, if the question be about Christian position, eternal life, or the Church considered in her essential relationship to Christ, there was neither Jew nor Gentile; the thoughts found in this chapter [Romans 11] can THERE have no place. If the question be about the cutting off of an individual for sinful conduct, little matters it whether he be Jew or Gentile; that has nothing to do with it, and on the other hand, there would be no question about grafting in again of the Jews more than of any others, and neither Jews nor others could be grafted in, if God had cut them off in such a manner. And if it were a question about a warning from the Apostle to Christians at Rome, and so to others elsewhere, as being brethren, it would be almost nonsense to say, " And thou, O Gentile, take heed!" Why, thou, O Gentile? Had not Christians, Jews by birth, as much need to take heed? Or could the Spirit of God, in such a warning, have made the distinction, and thus denied the principle of, the Church of God in which there is neither Jew nor Gentile? If the question is about a divine administration upon earth, then God can well make the distinction and develop his ways towards the one and the other; and it is plain that from the commencement of the ninth chapter the Apostle is occupied with and pointedly contrasts the Jews and the Gentiles, presenting us with the administration of the divine ways upon the earth. First declaring his attachment to Israel, he points out an election in the election for the earth, and further, that if God according to his sovereignty had chosen Israel (and such was Israel's boast), He had not renounced His sovereignty; and consequently, He could call the Gentiles if he would [/if He so willed, and He did]. Then he recalls to mind that the prophets had shown that a little remnant only, of Israel, at such an epoch, would be saved, and that a stone of stumbling would be laid in Zion."

-- Thoughts on Romans 11 and the Responsibility of the Church, Present Testimony: Volume 4 George V. Wigram

http://bibletruthpublishers.com/tho...the-church/present-testimony-volume-4/la85282

[end quoting; bold and underline mine]

____________

[further, Ephesians 1:10 is NOT speaking of "this present age [singular]" as the rest of that epistle IS; "The Church which is HIs body" pertains to "this present age [singular]" (in which there is NO DISTINCTION between Jew or Gentile, in our standing before God "IN CHRIST")... but the Subject of Eph1:10 is not speaking of this]

TheDivineWatermark · Dec 17, 2020

^ EDIT (to add the bolded parenthesis... to be considered in view of the previous post):

[further, Ephesians 1:10 is NOT speaking of "this present age [singular]" as the rest of that epistle IS; "The Church which is His body" (whose "citizenship is in heavens") pertains to "this present age [singular]" (in which there is NO DISTINCTION between Jew or Gentile, in our standing before God "IN CHRIST")... but the Subject of Eph1:10 is not speaking of this]

Eph1:10 - "for the administration of the fullness of the times, to bring together all things in Christ--the things in the heavens and the things upon the earth--" [that is, yet"future"]

Gardenias · Dec 17, 2020

So if there is no blessed hope to be spared Gods wrath,what have we?
Should we all pray for death and sleep until the final judgment and God completes his plan?
That then makes BELIEVING a fairy tale!

BenjaminN · Dec 17, 2020

Romans 11 (New King James Version )
25For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own [f]opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. 26And so all Israel will be [g]saved, as it is written:
“The Deliverer will come out of Zion,
And He will turn away ungodliness from Jacob;
27For this is My covenant with them,
When I take away their sins.”

Ephesians 2 (New King James Version)
8For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9not of works, lest anyone should boast. 10For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them. 11Therefore remember that you, once Gentiles in the flesh—who are called Uncircumcision by what is called the Circumcision made in the flesh by hands— 12that at that time you were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. 13But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ.

Ephesians 3 (New King James Version)
For this reason I, Paul, the prisoner of Christ Jesus for you Gentiles— 2if indeed you have heard of the [a]dispensation of the grace of God which was given to me for you, 3how that by revelation He made known to me the mystery (as I have briefly written already, 4by which, when you read, you may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ), 5which in other ages was not made known to the sons of men, as it has now been revealed by the Spirit to His holy apostles and prophets: 6that the Gentiles should be fellow heirs (to the Jews), of the same body, and partakers of His promise in Christ through the gospel, 7of which I became a minister according to the gift of the grace of God given to me by the effective working of His power.
8To me, who am less than the least of all the saints, this grace was given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ, 9and to make all see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the ages has been hidden in God who created all things [c]through Jesus Christ; 10to the intent that now the [d]manifold wisdom of God might be made known by the church to the [e]principalities and powers in the heavenly places, 11according to the eternal purpose which He accomplished in Christ Jesus our Lord, 12in whom we have boldness and access with confidence through faith in Him.

Matthew 13 (New King James Version)
20But he who received the seed on stony places, this is he who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy; 21yet he has no root in himself, but endures only for a while. For when tribulation or persecution arises because of the word, immediately he stumbles.

Matthew 24 (New King James Version)
22And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the [c]elect’s (Christians in the great tribulation) sake those days will be shortened. 24For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. (Great apostasy of the non-righteous, non-enduring believers in salvation, only through the cross, for anyone from any tribe, tongue or nation, including Jews, ie also the apostasy of the John Nelson Darby Christian Zionist church) 30Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His [d]elect (Rapture of God's Christian children after the great tribulation) from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Revelation 13 (New King James Version)
8All who dwell on the earth will worship him, whose names have not been written in the Book of Life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

Revelation 17 (New King James Version)
8The beast that you saw was, and is not, and will ascend out of the bottomless pit and go to [d]perdition. And those who dwell on the earth will marvel, whose names are not written in the Book of Life from the foundation of the world, when they see the beast that was, and is not, and [e]yet is.

Revelation 20 (New King James Version)
15And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.

Revelation 21 (New King James Version)
23The city had no need of the sun or of the moon to shine [l]in it, for the [m]glory of God illuminated it. The Lamb is its light. 24And the nations [n]of those who are saved shall walk in its light, and the kings of the earth bring their glory and honor [o]into it. 27But there shall by no means enter it anything [q]that defiles, or causes an abomination or a lie, but only those who are written in the Lamb’s Book of Life.

BenjaminN · Dec 17, 2020

Gardenias said:

God will guide his elect, the Christians of the last generation through the great tribulation, and those destined for the sword will die by the sword, and those destined for captivity will go into captivity.

Luke 21 (New King James Version)
36Watch therefore, and pray always that you may be counted worthy to escape all these things that will come to pass, and to stand before the Son of Man.”

Revelation 3 (New King James Version)
10Because you have kept [g]My command to persevere, I also will keep you from the hour of trial which shall come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell on the earth. 11 [h]Behold, I am coming quickly! Hold fast what you have, that no one may take your crown. 12He who overcomes, I will make him a pillar in the temple of My God, and he shall go out no more. I will write on him the name of My God and the name of the city of My God, the New Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from My God. And I will write on him My new name.

Revelation 13 (English Standard Version)
10If anyone is to be taken captive,
to captivity he goes;
if anyone is to be slain with the sword,
with the sword must he be slain.
Here is a call for the endurance and faith of the saints.

Pretribulation rapture hope is a false hope fairy tale, salvation by grace through faith, which is the gift of God, for good works prepared beforehand by God is our blessed hope, when we meet Christ Yeshua in the clouds with the resurrected dead after all this.

Ephesians 2 (New King James Version)
8For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9not of works, lest anyone should boast. 10For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.

Matthew 13 (New King James Version)
20But he who received the seed on stony places, this is he who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy; 21yet he has no root in himself, but endures only for a while. For when tribulation or persecution arises because of the word, immediately he stumbles.

Matthew 24 (New King James Version)
21For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be. 22And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the [c]elect’s sake those days will be shortened.

No believer has an appointment with God's wrath, also not the great tribulation saints. All believers are promised the possibility of persecution and tribulation, but we are reminded to be of good cheer, because we have the blessed hope of salvation through the tribulations of Our Master's blood on the cross, whom we are ordered to take up our cross and follow. All Christ Yeshua's disciples turned apostles met a martyred death, accept for the apostle John who survived a boiling oil bath, after which he wrote Revelation on Patmos. John the Baptist's head got cut-off. Going into captivity or dying by the sword in persecution by this world is not to be equated with God's wrath - it is a false preaching.

John 16 (New King James Version)
31Jesus answered them, “Do you now believe? 32Indeed the hour is coming, yes, has now come, that you will be scattered, each to his [e]own, and will leave Me alone. And yet I am not alone, because the Father is with Me. 33These things I have spoken to you, that in Me you may have peace. In the world you [f]will have tribulation; but be of good cheer, I have overcome the world.”

Absolutely · Dec 17, 2020

BenjaminN said:

One out of seven of the churches of Revelation 2&3 is "kept from" the trials coming over the earth and divinely guided through it, not "raptured from" earth.

Are we untruthfully saying the elect believers of the Body of Christ will get "left behind" based on their works... and salvation is not - by grace through faith which is the gift of God for good works prepared by God beforehand (Ephesians 2:8-10) - anymore, but selectively based only on works...? If you believe, your works prepared by God beforehand will reflect your believe, the one goes hand in hand with the other. All believers of the last generation goes through the great tribulation, and some praying to escape the tribulations of the persecution of the anti-christ, are kept from harms way by the divine guidance of God, guiding those who trust in him through this period.

Ephesians 2 (New King James Version)
8For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9not of works, lest anyone should boast. 10For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.

Revelation 13 (Interlinear - https://biblehub.com/interlinear/revelation/13-10.htm )
10If anyone [is to go] into captivity, into captivity he goes; if anyone with [the] sword is to be killed, it is necessary for him by [the] sword to be killed.
Here is the endurance and faith of the saints.

Luke 21 (Interlinear - https://biblehub.com/interlinear/luke/21-36.htm )
36"Watch also at every season, praying that you may have strength to escape these things all that are about to come to pass and to stand before the Son of Man.”

Revelation 3 (New King James Version)
The Faithful Church
7“And to the [e]angel of the church in Philadelphia write,
‘These things says He who is holy, He who is true, “He who has the key of David, He who opens and no one shuts, and shuts and no one opens”: 8“I know your works. See, I have set before you an open door, [f]and no one can shut it; for you have a little strength, have kept My word, and have not denied My name. 9Indeed I will make those of the synagogue of Satan, who say they are Jews and are not, but lie—indeed I will make them come and worship before your feet, and to know that I have loved you. 10Because you have kept [g]My command to persevere, I also will keep you from the hour of trial which shall come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell on the earth. 11 [h]Behold, I am coming quickly! Hold fast what you have, that no one may take your crown. 12He who overcomes, I will make him a pillar in the temple of My God, and he shall go out no more. I will write on him the name of My God and the name of the city of My God, the New Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from My God. And I will write on him My new name.
13“He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.” ’

Jesus said "pray that you may be counted worthy to escape the things about to come upon the earth."
Jesus said "worthy"...to pray to be worthy.
Jesus said it in perfect harmony of his parable of 5 virgins left behind due to NOT BEING WORTHY.

Jesus's own disciples ,some of them, were left out of the dead raised incident and mount of transfiguration.

You reframing it to "works",I am sure, is to fit your opinions,not Gods word.
BTW, the bema seat rewards are for "works" and "preferring one believer over another"
God is not in our boxes.

We get into his mind and will and purposes. He does not get into ours.
You are reframing verses.

Absolutely · Dec 17, 2020

BenjaminN said:

10Because you have kept [g]My command to persevere, I also will keep you from the hour of trial which shall come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell on the earth. 11 [h]Behold, I am coming quickly! Hold fast what you have, that no one may take your crown.12He who overcomes, I will make him a pillar

Lol
You make a case for Jesus preferring one believer over another in your verses.

Are you aware that the rapture "keeps out of,or "from",automatically.

The dynamic you need is "IN".

But no,it says "from".
Lot was removed as was noah.
Noah rose into the heavens over 1 mile in the ark.
Noah returned to earth AFTER THE JUDGEMENT.

You guys need Lot and Noah REMOVED AFTER THE JUDGEMENTS.

You need a postjudgement removal.

Jesus framed the rapture pretrib.

That is where we need to stand....with Jesus.

The saints are all martyred in the gt.
The ac kills ALL REFUSING THE MARK.
There is no dynamic of believers going from cave to cave living off lizards and insects.
They all die or take the mark.

BenjaminN · Dec 17, 2020

You:

Absolutely said:

" You reframing it to "works", " - No sir, you did.

Being saved by grace through faith which is the gift of God for good works prepared beforehand by God. It is impossible not to live holy for a saved person. If you do not live holy, you are not saved.

Me:

BenjaminN said:

Absolutely · Dec 17, 2020

BenjaminN said:

God will guide his elect, the Christians of the last generation through the great tribulation, and those destined for the sword will die by the sword, and those destined for captivity will go into captivity.

Luke 21 (New King James Version)
36Watch therefore, and pray always that you may be counted worthy to escape all these things that will come to pass, and to stand before the Son of Man.”

Revelation 3 (New King James Version)
10Because you have kept [g]My command to persevere, I also will keep you from the hour of trial which shall come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell on the earth. 11 [h]Behold, I am coming quickly! Hold fast what you have, that no one may take your crown. 12He who overcomes, I will make him a pillar in the temple of My God, and he shall go out no more. I will write on him the name of My God and the name of the city of My God, the New Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from My God. And I will write on him My new name.

Revelation 13 (English Standard Version)
10If anyone is to be taken captive,
to captivity he goes;
if anyone is to be slain with the sword,
with the sword must he be slain.
Here is a call for the endurance and faith of the saints.

Pretribulation rapture hope is a false hope fairy tale, salvation by grace through faith, which is the gift of God, for good works prepared beforehand by God is our blessed hope, when we meet Christ Yeshua in the clouds with the resurrected dead after all this.

Ephesians 2 (New King James Version)
8For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9not of works, lest anyone should boast. 10For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.

Matthew 13 (New King James Version)
20But he who received the seed on stony places, this is he who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy; 21yet he has no root in himself, but endures only for a while. For when tribulation or persecution arises because of the word, immediately he stumbles.

Matthew 24 (New King James Version)
21For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be. 22And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the [c]elect’s sake those days will be shortened.

No believer has an appointment with God's wrath, also not the great tribulation saints. All believers are promised the possibility of persecution and tribulation, but we are reminded to be of good cheer, because we have the blessed hope of salvation through the tribulations of Our Master's blood on the cross, whom we are ordered to take up our cross and follow. All Christ Yeshua's disciples turned apostles met a martyred death, accept for the apostle John who survived a boiling oil bath, after which he wrote Revelation on Patmos. John the Baptist's head got cut-off. Going into captivity or dying by the sword in persecution by this world is not to be equated with God's wrath - it is a false preaching.

John 16 (New King James Version)
31Jesus answered them, “Do you now believe? 32Indeed the hour is coming, yes, has now come, that you will be scattered, each to his [e]own, and will leave Me alone. And yet I am not alone, because the Father is with Me. 33These things I have spoken to you, that in Me you may have peace. In the world you [f]will have tribulation; but be of good cheer, I have overcome the world.”

""Pretribulation rapture hope is a false hope fairy tale, salvation by grace through faith, which is the gift of God, for good works prepared beforehand by God is our blessed hope, when we meet Christ Yeshua in the clouds with the resurrected dead after all this.""

I can easily defend the pretrib rapture.
all postribs either reframe my verses or ignore them.

you have a doctrine that PURPOSEFULLY reframes verses and COMPLETELY leaves out the next major event,the gathering of the bride.

It truly seems impossible that believers could miss the bride/ groom dynamic.

seems impossible....yet your teachers won't touch it.

The next major event....and your teachers are oblivious.

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