The problem of the statement of “never saved to begin with”

[Magenta]

Christians love and are loved by the light.

And the natural man hates the Light. Still, we have many here who deny such verses in favor of their man-made traditions.

2 Thessalonians 2:10b-14a ~ Those who are perishing refused the love of the truth that would have saved them. For this reason God will send them a powerful delusion so that they believe the lie, in order that judgment may come upon all who have disbelieved the truth and delighted in wickedness. But we always thank God for you, brothers who are loved by the Lord, because God has chosen you from the beginning to be saved by the sanctification of the Spirit and by faith in the truth, to which He called you through our gospel.

 

[Mouse_Cheeks]

And the natural man hates the Light. Still, we have many here who deny such verses in favor of their man-made traditions.

2 Thessalonians 2:10b-14a ~ Those who are perishing refused the love of the truth that would have saved them. For this reason God will send them a powerful delusion so that they believe the lie, in order that judgment may come upon all who have disbelieved the truth and delighted in wickedness. But we always thank God for you, brothers who are loved by the Lord, because God has chosen you from the beginning to be saved by the sanctification of the Spirit and by faith in the truth, to which He called you through our gospel.

Likely, it has always been that way.
More proof the flesh is in love with itself.

 

[Magenta]

Likely, it has always been that way.
More proof the flesh is in love with itself.

That is a good way of putting it...

 

[Inquisitor]

That's not what hairesis actually means. It means the act of selecting and taking for oneself others, away from their church into a faction that follows you or someone of whom you are a fan. From haireO to choose or take for oneself.

One can be quite orthodox and still be a heretic (biblically), if one seeks to set oneself up as a to-be-preferred teacher, and tries to peel off Christians from some other orthodox group to follow your podcasts or sit under your pulpit by slander or innuendo aginst other pastor/teachers. "I prefer Peter." "I prefer Apollos." I prefer Paul." "I prefer Thieme." These are carnal heretical attitudes, if Paul, Apollos and Peter and Thieme are all preaching and leading others to Christ.

Here is an example of a heretical organization from history.

This organization was regarded as heretical by orthodox (traditional) Christianity in the 16th Century.

Protestantism (16th Century)

Protestant groups display a wide variety of different doctrines. However, virtually all claim to believe
in the teachings of sola scriptura (“by Scripture alone”—the idea that we must use only the Bible when
forming our theology) and sola fide (“by faith alone”— the idea that we are justified by faith only).

The great diversity of Protestant doctrines stems from the doctrine of private judgment, which denies
the infallible authority of the Church and claims that each individual is to interpret Scripture for himself.

This idea is rejected in 2 Peter 1:20, where we are told the first rule of Bible interpretation: “First of all you
must understand this, that no prophecy of Scripture is a matter of one’s own interpretation.” A significant
feature of this heresy is the attempt to pit the Church “against” the Bible, denying that the magisterium
has any infallible authority to interpret Scripture. This doctrine of private judgment has resulted in thousands
of different Christian denominations and quasi-Christian splinter groups throughout history.

By the way, it is not sola fide (by faith alone) anyway; it's by grace through faith.

 

[Inquisitor]

Scripture actually says we were made alive in Christ while we were yet dead in our trespasses and sins. And it further states that salvation is by the will and mercy and desire of God and not the will or desire or effort of man. You constantly have the natural man, with an incurably wicked heart, the guy who is a slave to sin, a lover of darkness, and suppressing the truth in unrighteousness, choosing to believe that which is foolishnesss to him, which he can neither comprehend nor receive. You like to pretend that the bad tree can bring forth good fruit even though Jesus said that was not possible. What happens upon belief is that we are sealed with the promise of the Holy Spirit. Scripture says that...

Does a Calvinist believe the elect are born with the Holy Spirit?

 

[Magenta]

This idea is rejected in 2 Peter 1:20, where we are told the first rule of Bible interpretation: “First of all you
must understand this, that no prophecy of Scripture is a matter of one’s own interpretation.” A significant
feature of this heresy is the attempt to pit the Church “against” the Bible, denying that the magisterium
has any infallible authority to interpret Scripture. This doctrine of private judgment has resulted in thousands
of different Christian denominations and quasi-Christian splinter groups throughout history.

People misapply this verse frequently... Interesting that you left off the part that tells what the verse is really about:
how the prophecy is received by the actual prophet, which is not a private interpretation, but given by the Holy Spirit.

We have the word of the prophets as confirmed beyond doubt. And you will do well to pay attention to it, as to a lamp
shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts. Above all, you must understand
that no prophecy of Scripture comes from one’s own interpretation. For no such prophecy was ever brought
forth by the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit.

 

[Inquisitor]

Very unfortunate you are an enemy of Christians here.

That would be very unfortunate if that is the case.

I have always been of the opinion that the true enemy has always been. The folk that hold to a form
of Christianity, to a form of Godliness, but openly deny it's power.

 

[Inquisitor]

People misapply this verse frequently... Interesting that you left off the part that tells what the verse is really about:
how the prophecy is received by the actual prophet, which is not a private interpretation, but given by the Holy Spirit.

We have the word of the prophets as confirmed beyond doubt. And you will do well to pay attention to it, as to a lamp
shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts. Above all, you must understand
that no prophecy of Scripture comes from one’s own interpretation. For no such prophecy was ever brought
forth by the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit.

You may have missed the point that there is only one correct reading of the N.T.

Yet, there are a multitude of different interpretations.

The N.T. is such a small text and many letters are simple letters.

How is it possible to have so many church variations?

Even Calvinism has multiple denominations.

How do you read the following verse?

2 Timothy 3:5
Holding to a form of godliness, although they have denied its power; Avoid such men as these.

 

[Mouse_Cheeks]

That would be very unfortunate if that is the case.

I have always been of the opinion that the true enemy has always been. The folk that hold to a form
of Christianity, to a form of Godliness, but openly deny it's power.

Pride goes before destruction, and a haughty spirit before a fall.


Do you see a man who is wise in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.

 

[Inquisitor]

Pride goes before destruction, and a haughty spirit before a fall. Do you see a man who is wise in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.

It's simply what the scripture states that matters.

Here you go an exercise for you to do while you are judging me.

1 Corinthians 4:20
For the kingdom of God does not consist in words but in power.

How do you read the verse above?