The Punctuation of Luke 23:43

[garee]

I have run into several people who have claimed that the comma is in the wrong place, mostly those who are advocates of soul-sleep, because it destroys their belief, ergo, move the comma. It's just apart of the same spirit of deception in the world. It is along the same lines as claiming that the rich man and Lazarus as being a parable.

It certainly is a parable... you simply bypass the signified language God's speaks ion .His calling card..... without parables Christ spoke not.

The spiritual meaning is hid from natural man (no faith) . Men that are buried under the ground have no tongue to thirst after water, no kidney to store water in order to hydrate flesh.

What is the spiritual meaning of that parable?

 

[RickyZ]

That's right. And since Christ did not go to Paradise on that day, but instead went to Hades for 3 days and 3 nights before going to Paradise (which is in Heaven), the punctuation in the English translation was incorrect.

Would the answers be different if God were not constrained to our time-line?

No takers, eh?

But, again I ask... is it possible for Jesus to have spent 3 days in the tomb and Hades, and still have been with the thief in paradise that very day?

 

[Ahwatukee]

Well I guess we would have to disagree.

Every description of Sheol/Hades excludes any suggestion that Paradise would be *Abraham's bosom* in Hades. You may go through all references to Sheol in the OT (sometimes call the "grave" mistakenly). That Sheol and Hades are identical is confirmed in Psalm 16:10 and Acts 2:27.

But Paradise is always shown to be in the New Jerusalem, which is in Heaven (2 Cor 12:1-4). So Paradise was the destination of all the OT saints after the resurrection of Christ, and we find them as "the spirits of just men made perfect" in the New Jerusalem (Heb 12:22-24).

Yes, but as I posted previously, there was a place of comfort in Sheol/Hades, which was separated by a great chasm, which demonstrates that Abraham, Lazarus and the rich man were all in Sheol/Hades, but there were two different areas, one side of comfort and one of torment in flame. It is this place of comfort which I believe the Lord was referring to when He said, "today you will be with me in paradise."

 

[OneFaith]

That's right. And since Christ did not go to Paradise on that day, but instead went to Hades for 3 days and 3 nights before going to Paradise (which is in Heaven), the punctuation in the English translation was incorrect.

Christ did go to Paradise that very day, as did the thief, Christ does not lie. Hades is not hell, but the realm of the dead- both righteous and unrighteous. The rich man and Lazarus show this. Paradise is not in heaven, it is Abraham's side. It is not until after judgement day that God will personally dwell with His people in heaven.

 

[Dan58]

I agree with the previous 2 post (Ahwatukee & One Faith). "Verily I say unto thee, To day thou shall be with me in paradise". Why would Jesus specify that He was telling him today, that would seem assumed and obvious. No, imo his specificity was to designate when they would be in Paradise/Hades, and it was 'This very day".. Jesus didn't lie dormant for 3 days (only his physical body), I believe he went to both sides of paradise, and later as he told Mary; "Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father" (John 20:17.)

Also, the verse shouldn't start with an Amen, so I didn't select any of the choices because all the translations are wrong. When Jesus says "Verily verily", the better translation is "Surely, surely". He's essentially emphasizing a point of fact. And imo, "Amen" is a closing pronouncement, meaning "That's that"... jmo

 

[Nehemiah6]

Christ did go to Paradise that very day, as did the thief, Christ does not lie.

And it is because Christ does not lie that the punctuation is clearly wrong.

The Bible tells us that Christ preached (made proclamation) to THE SPIRITS IN PRISON while He was in Hades. Paradise can never be called a prison, but Sheol/Hades was the prison of all the departed souls and spirits until the resurrection of Christ. Study up on Sheol.

For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: by which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison... (1 Pet 3:18,19).

After 3 days and 3 nights in the heart of the earth (the lower parts of the earth) Christ took all those OT saints to Paradise. So He did indeed fulfill His promise to that converted thief but only after that period of activity in Hades.

 

[glf1]

Jesus is omnipresent, even when in his resurrection body; and too, when he was not in the body! So he was able to be in paradice and hades both at the same time! In fact, Jesus was in both at once and he was present everywhere else in between and on each side...

 

[lightbearer]

( I believe Ahwatukee has me on ignore, but hopefully others will read..)

That makes no sense. You are typically very polite.

 

[posthuman]

Why would Jesus specify that He was telling him today, that would seem assumed and obvious.

perhaps because he was replying to a man who had just asked to be remembered when He comes into His kingdom?
when is that 'when'? was it that very day?

 

[Grandpa]

I'm starting to think that the Lord said "Today" just to mess with the whole English speaking religious world.


One thing I am wondering. Was God not in Paradise when the Lord Jesus was on the Cross?

Was the Lord Jesus in the Father and the Father in the Lord Jesus when the Lord Jesus was on the Cross?


Its too complicated to tell exactly where the comma should go. Especially since the Lord Jesus Words have such depth of meaning and often He is saying many things all at the same time.

 

[notuptome]

No takers, eh?

But, again I ask... is it possible for Jesus to have spent 3 days in the tomb and Hades, and still have been with the thief in paradise that very day?

Jesus as God was in both places at the same time. God inhabits eternity. All of eternity all the time. Hades had two chambers as revealed in Luke 16. One chamber held the condemned and the other held the OT saints. The thief was taken from the cross to Abrahams bosom and the other thief went to the chamber with the rich man. Jesus took Abrahams bosom into heaven into the presence of the Father where we will one day be with them. We await our glorified bodies which we receive when Christ returns in the clouds before the tribulation of Israel, the great tribulation.

Short answer is of course yes. I almost forgot your original question. LOL

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Zmouth]

Well, it could be that Jesus told the malefactor next to him that today he would be with him in paradise because some people don't see what they got until it is gone.

 

[notuptome]

Well, it could be that Jesus told the malefactor next to him that today he would be with him in paradise because some people don't see what they got until it is gone.

But Jesus never leaves nor forsakes. Jesus went away but He did not leave.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Zmouth]

But Jesus never leaves nor forsakes. Jesus went away but He did not leave.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

That's sad, so Jesus went away? I guess by seeing they can't see and hearing they can't hear.

16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.
John 14:16-18

 

[Dan58]

Actually, when you consider that time ends when you die, perhaps the malefactor was spiritually awaken in paradise not knowing what day it was? If "today" is your last day on earth, there ain't no tomorrow, you just continue to exist from the day you physically perished.