The Purpose of Speaking in Tongues

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CS1

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May 23, 2012
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If one who is saved today does not endure to the end, as Jesus said as pointed out by Kelby, will he still be saved in the end?

If no, then he is not going to be saved forever.
IF you want to judge ones salvation you go ahead. Today is the only day you have what does endure to the end mean? Remain faithful.
Let me ask you this, do you know what the end looks like?

if one is baptized in the name of Jesus for salvation and do not remain faithful are they not saved? And has anyone of you know what the end of one is? WE must be very careful when we try to step into the unknown where God knows all.

WE are not to step into the saved or not saved shoes. Are you faithful? Are you enduring? Are you saved today? It is only I who am to work out my salvation with fear and trembling. I am to search my heart.
 

KelbyofGod

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The only Biblical purpose was to VALIDATE the NEW TESTAMENT was as Much the Word of GOD to the Unbelieving JEWS to fulfill Prophecy, just like the Old Testament Prophets that also did Miracles of GOD to validate it came from GOD.

1 Corinthians 14:21-22 (ESV)
21 In the Law it is written, By people of strange tongues and by the lips of foreigners will I speak to this people {the Jews}, and even then they will not listen to me, says the Lord.”
22 Thus tongues are a sign not for believers but for unbelievers {the Jews}, while prophecy is a sign not for unbelievers but for believers.

Isaiah 28:11-12 (ESV)
11 For by people of strange lips and with a foreign tongue the LORD will speak to this people {the Jews},
12 to whom he has said, “This is rest; give rest to the weary; and this is repose”; yet they would not hear.

1 Corinthians 1:22 (KJV)
22 For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom:

1 Corinthians 14:33-35 (ESV)
33 For God is not a God of confusion but of peace. As in all the churches of the saints,
34 the women should keep silent in the churches. For they are not permitted to speak, but should be in submission, as the Law also says.
35 If there is anything they desire to learn, let them ask their husbands at home. For it is shameful for a woman to speak in church.

Mark 16:20 (NIV)
20 Then the disciples went out and preached everywhere, and the Lord worked with them and confirmed his word by the signs that accompanied it.


When the New Testament was confirmed to enough witnesses, I believe the purpose Ceased, and so did the genuine TONGUES Cease. All that remains is nothing more than a counterfeit of the Real McCoy. Just like Jesus does not continue to validate HIS RESURRECTION to every new believer by appearing to him.

Acts 2:5-11 (HCSB)
5 There were Jews living in Jerusalem, devout men from every nation under heaven.
6 When this sound occurred, a crowd came together and was confused because each one heard them speaking in his own language.
7 And they were astounded and amazed, saying, “Look, aren’t all these who are speaking Galileans? {Galileans were know to have a strong accent, like someone in the deep south of the USA, or an Irishman.}
8 How is it that each of us can hear in our own native language? {dialektos is so specific of a language that EVEN the accent was 100% correct.}
9 Parthians, Medes, Elamites; those who live in Mesopotamia, in Judea and Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia,
10 Phrygia and Pamphylia, Egypt and the parts of Libya near Cyrene; visitors from Rome, both Jews and proselytes,
11 Cretans and Arabs—we hear them speaking the magnificent acts of God in our own languages.”
{All JEWS had to learn and memorize the MAGNIFICENT ACTS OF GOD specifically, so it was a LANGUAGE, not Jibberish.}
VCO,
Thank you for a well-constructed reply. I would like to express partial agreement with what you said.

I agree that the tongues, prophesying, miracles etc were signs of the reality of the new testament and what Jesus accomplished. But I think it inaccurate to assert that to be the ONLY reason these things happened or were needed and beneficial. For examples:
  • Tongues benefited (edified) the speaker..which allowed the speaker to build himself up even if no one else was around.
  • Prophecy benefited all who heard it (including the speaker) because it came from the spirit of God and produced the results of edification, exhortation and comfort. which are benefits indeed.
  • Healings are a type of miracle that was also a sign, and it's easy to see the benefits to the recipient.
  • Miracles of other types almost always have an instructive value even if not a constructive value. Most were constructive.
Of course that is only a partial listing of gifts, and only a partial listing of the benefits of each. Having the availability of these things in the New Testament gave people hope:
  • Hope that they could receive from and be used by God in the absence of others.
  • Hope that God could give them specific instructions even if they were not necessarily doing well.
  • Hope of miraculous restoration in the face of illness and/or injury.
  • Hope of miraculous intervention in tough situations.
And again, that's only addressing a few benefits of the few gifts I mentioned.

I simply think that is enough of a list of benefits to show more of a purpose than just to show proof of concept.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby
 
Jan 12, 2019
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IF you want to judge ones salvation you go ahead. Today is the only day you have what does endure to the end mean? Remain faithful.
Let me ask you this, do you know what the end looks like?

if one is baptized in the name of Jesus for salvation and do not remain faithful are they not saved? And has anyone of you know what the end of one is? WE must be very careful when we try to step into the unknown where God knows all.

WE are not to step into the saved or not saved shoes. Are you faithful? Are you enduring? Are you saved today? It is only I who am to work out my salvation with fear and trembling. I am to search my heart.
So can I conclude you don't believe in eternal security? That is the conclusion I get when I read your above explaination.
 

KelbyofGod

Senior Member
Oct 8, 2017
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IF you want to judge ones salvation you go ahead. Today is the only day you have what does endure to the end mean? Remain faithful.
Let me ask you this, do you know what the end looks like?

if one is baptized in the name of Jesus for salvation and do not remain faithful are they not saved? And has anyone of you know what the end of one is? WE must be very careful when we try to step into the unknown where God knows all.

WE are not to step into the saved or not saved shoes. Are you faithful? Are you enduring? Are you saved today? It is only I who am to work out my salvation with fear and trembling. I am to search my heart.
This is why I avoid application of the word "saved". If we're not allowed to judge them on the negative, how in the world do we think we could judge them on the positive?

Can we tell if a person has been baptized (in the name of Jesus for remission of sins, or some other way?) Yes, there is always a witness.
Can we tell if a person has received the Holy Ghost. Yes, because they could tell exactly when the Holy Ghost was received in the book of Acts. (It even tells us how they knew) And it also tells us they could tell when a group had NOT yet received the Holy Ghost.

But I do not know the heart of a man as to whether he believes correctly, or if he will endure to the end.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
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So can I conclude you don't believe in eternal security? That is the conclusion I get when I read your above explaination.
No you can not conclude that because I am saved today and if my hear twas to stop today I would go to be with Jesus. Just remember there are those who believe in eternal security and those who believe you can lose your salvation who are not even saved possibly because they have no relationship with Jesus.
 
Jan 12, 2019
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No you can not conclude that because I am saved today and if my hear twas to stop today I would go to be with Jesus. Just remember there are those who believe in eternal security and those who believe you can lose your salvation who are not even saved possibly because they have no relationship with Jesus.
Interesting, you said you believed in what Jesus said in Matthew 24

13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

Yet, you also claimed you believe in eternal security at the same time?

Hypothetically speaking, if you did not endure, say next year in 2021, and supposed you pass away in 2021, you will not be saved then. That you would agree correct? It follows from Matt 24:13

So my question is, would you consider yourself saved NOW in 2020?
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
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This is why I avoid application of the word "saved". If we're not allowed to judge them on the negative, how in the world do we think we could judge them on the positive?

Can we tell if a person has been baptized (in the name of Jesus for remission of sins, or some other way?) Yes, there is always a witness.
Can we tell if a person has received the Holy Ghost. Yes, because they could tell exactly when the Holy Ghost was received in the book of Acts. (It even tells us how they knew) And it also tells us they could tell when a group had NOT yet received the Holy Ghost.

But I do not know the heart of a man as to whether he believes correctly, or if he will endure to the end.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby
Judging ones action does not mean you know the person fully. Salvation is today not in the distant future. The word of God judges them the Holy Spirit Job is to reproof of sin not you or me. Paul said " I am not ashamed of the Gospel of Jesus Christ for it is the POWER of GOD unto Salvation>

Jesus did not say ask those do you believe in eternal security. HE said Preach the Gospel to every creature. and doing so God will save and add to the body of Christ. Yet seeing one filled with the Holy Spirit, seeing one baptized , seeing one perform miracles

Did Not Judas do those things ? was judas not sent out with the 70? did not the disciples of Jesus baptize before Jesus was crucified? Did not Jesus say on the night we was betrayed I have chosen you all and one of you is adevil, and will betray me. DID not each od the disciples go to the Lord and ask HIM
"IS it I ? " Did they not have enough confidence to say I know it an't me? You can't get into is one saved or not . You can correct the error if they are correctable if not you turn them over and let the Lord deal with them. Just because you turn them over does that mean they are not able to return? Do you not know the ending of all? You don't. God does.
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
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Interesting, you said you believed in what Jesus said in Matthew 24

13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

Yet, you also claimed you believe in eternal security at the same time?

Hypothetically speaking, if you did not endure, say next year in 2021, you will not be saved then. That you would agree correct? It follows from Matt 24:13

So my question is, would you consider yourself saved NOW in 2020?
pleas show me where in the word of God am I to even think of 2021 when everything I see in the word of God say to be ready today and live as though I am coming tomorrow? I am saved today yes because the word of God says I am. today is all I have.
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
13,058
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Interesting, you said you believed in what Jesus said in Matthew 24

13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

Yet, you also claimed you believe in eternal security at the same time?

Hypothetically speaking, if you did not endure, say next year in 2021, and supposed you pass away in 2021, you will not be saved then. That you would agree correct? It follows from Matt 24:13

So my question is, would you consider yourself saved NOW in 2020?
also none of this has to do with the current topic.
 
Jan 12, 2019
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pleas show me where in the word of God am I to even think of 2021 when everything I see in the word of God say to be ready today and live as though I am coming tomorrow? I am saved today yes because the word of God says I am. today is all I have.
Okay, so to conclude, you know you are saved today, but you don't know whether you will be saved in the future, because its still an unknown period. But you have confidence that you will still be enduring then.

That to you, can also be considered as believing in eternal security.
 

CS1

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May 23, 2012
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Okay, so to conclude, you know you are saved today, but you don't know whether you will be saved in the future, because its still an unknown period. But you have confidence that you will still be enduring then.

That to you, can also be considered as believing in eternal security.
of course nothing, in the word of God suggest I am not to have any other mind -set. Why have one of defeat and fear. or of doubt
IF one know God did not lie and if one knows Jesus as Lord why would I be any other minded than I am saved? that is foolishness .
 

Blain

The Word Weaver
Aug 28, 2012
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yes and also if you are not seeking HIM for it or you are reaping in your body the payment for sin physically. Many People are saved but their body is paying for the life of sin physically.
The things my body suffer for were from my past with my abusive parents and the cancer am I not already forgiven from the sins of my past?
 

CS1

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May 23, 2012
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The things my body suffer for were from my past with my abusive parents and the cancer am I not already forgiven from the sins of my past?
yes you are. IF you asked him HE has, and His grace will be enough to get you over the finish line :)
 

Blain

The Word Weaver
Aug 28, 2012
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yes you are. IF you asked him HE has, and His grace will be enough to get you over the finish line :)
Honestly I don't care if I myself am ever healed, if the cost of having the gift was strictly for the sake of others I would take that without hesitation.
 

Truth7t7

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May 19, 2020
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I absolutely believe in Speaking in Tongues, but I totally reject the idea of crawling around like some animal in heat trying to get mated. I am all for getting Spiritually full and taking off running, jumping, clapping, shouting out to God. But projecting the body in contorted ways seems more on lines with the movie series "the Exorcist" and demon possession than Godly possession.

Next are we allowing heads to spin and turning pale blue while speaking ancient Aramaic?
I agree 100%

1 Corinthians 14:33KJV
33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.
 

Truth7t7

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May 19, 2020
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That's my point, Azusa was the real deal. Some of these actions we see within the False Doctrine Churches of Prosperity Gospel are nowhere near being aligned with God!
Are you saying Benny Hinn is a phony?
 
Jan 12, 2019
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of course nothing, in the word of God suggest I am not to have any other mind -set. Why have one of defeat and fear. or of doubt
IF one know God did not lie and if one knows Jesus as Lord why would I be any other minded than I am saved? that is foolishness .
As I have mentioned to Kelby, the Gospel of the Kingdom for Israel don't have eternal security. The Jews don't have that concept, unlike us.

The Jews are only finally saved when Jesus return to usher them to their promised Kingdom (Acts 3:19-20). So they have to endure various trials, which the Tribulation is a major trial for Israel, before they can be finally saved. (James 1:2-4, 1 Peter 1:3-9)

But because you believed that doctrine also applies to you now, that is why you consider it foolish to think otherwise.
 

CS1

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May 23, 2012
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As I have mentioned to Kelby, the Gospel of the Kingdom for Israel don't have eternal security. The Jews don't have that concept, unlike us.

The Jews are only finally saved when Jesus return to usher them to their promised Kingdom (Acts 3:19-20). So they have to endure various trials, which the Tribulation is a major trial for Israel, before they can be finally saved. (James 1:2-4, 1 Peter 1:3-9)

But because you believed that doctrine also applies to you now, that is why you consider it foolish to think otherwise.
the Idea it is a doctrine which means teaching you have to answer is it truth? Jesus said whosoever calls on the name of the Lord Might be saved? Maybe will be ? No! Jesus said you Shall be saved. after knowing and tasting of the salvation of the Lord why would I then look in the word of God to see how i can lose salvation? how is that edifying?
Paul said in Philippians 4:8

Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things.

Tell me how the doctrine of losing my salvation is edifying? Other than to spur me on to do more for the Lord until HE comes?

I hope I endure, I'm just trying to get by for the oh my in the sky in the sweet bye & bye.

That is fear and no fatih.

Hebrews 11:6
Without faith you cannot please God. For he that comes to HIM, must BELIEVE that HE is, and that HE is a rewarder of them that diligently seek HIM.
 

KelbyofGod

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Oct 8, 2017
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I have to respectfully disagree. For proponents of modern tongues-speech, the only possible way in which these passages can be taken is if the speaker also does not understand what /she is saying; else wise, it negates evidencing the modern phenomenon in the Bible.
You've said this before, and I've agreed before, so I wonder why you keep saying it. (Acknowledging that maybe you're trying to make some argument I'm not noticing.)

The other point you make later about passive and active tenses of a word also makes sense, and I don't feel the need to battle it down whether it is new to me or old. If there are two tenses of a word it makes sense to consider both.

It sounds to me that you see one tense of the word as being possible, and that tense fits your belief structure, so you use it. Likewise, i see the other tense of the word as possible, and it fits my belief structure so i use that one.

Because we both agree that both tenses of that word are possibilities, we basically agree that we can't disprove the other's choice of word tense on its own. So let's not use "proper tense" as an argument to each other without definitive outside evidence.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby
 

KelbyofGod

Senior Member
Oct 8, 2017
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@CS1 My post to you was in continuation of our discussion of when the disciples should be termed "saved" because you'd suggested it has to be at either John 20:22 or at Acts 2. I basically think it presumptuous to apply the term "saved"(as a declaration of their eternal security) at either place. And I see no need to make that declaration at either place.

I leave it up to God to make that particular declaration, and it sounds like you are also now making that same argument to others.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby