The Purpose of Speaking in Tongues

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Mar 28, 2016
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I find it very interesting you did not quote Joel 2 as Peter did on the day of Pentecost?
Peter said this IS THAT which was spoken by the Prophet Joel. Then Peter quoted HIM.
Acts 2:16-18


This is that not something else but what you see happening is what was spoken by the Prophet Joel
Also you greatly left out other verses in 1cor 12 to 14 which are unit Chapters . You try to piece in the Gospel of Mark 16:20 but did not use what Jesus HIMself said in Luke 24:45-49
and John 20:22
Luke 24:45 say s "Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,"
This happened after "Jesus breathed on them and said receive the Holy Spirit" John 20:2


What understanding of the scriptures they needed? The Old Testament. They need to understand Jesus is the Lord and king the Savior of the jews that was promised. After their understanding was open they were told to wait. why? Because Knowledge is not enough, they need the power of the Holy Spirit.

Then HE told them to go and wait for empowerment of the Holy Spirit

You think your knowledge of the Bible is enough?

2 Timothy

3:5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.

the word "form" is morphōsis a formula of godliness meaning having an appearance a respect piety towards God, but deny
the power (dynamis) of GOD. the same power Jesus said in Acts 1:8 such a type turn away from.



2tim 3:7 "Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth."

meaning never able to know alētheia concerning the things of God: precise and correct knowledge

John 5:38 Jesus said " But you do not have His word abiding in you, because whom He sent, Him you do not believe."

:39 “You search the Scriptures, for in them you think you have eternal life; and these are they which testify of Me.

Having all the knowledge of the word of God is a great achievement among men but God is not impressed.
IF your understanding limits God , and says HE is not moving by the Holy Spirit in each believer even when they are not reading the Bible you are wrong.


IF your undersign of the word of God means Know more of the Bible and it doesn't change your life then you're dead.
You Biblical knowledge doesn't save you your relationship with Christ did by grace through faith.
Yes The promise in Joel is the timing to fulfillment when God said he would bring prophecy as a tongue in the language of all the nations .Mocking those who mock his word prophecy which their own oral traditions. The faithless mockers being mocked
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
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Yes Jesus said you will receive Power after the Holy Spirit comes upon you. Acts 1:8.

you are wrong and unbiblical.
You hurl verses around aiming them at people and you have no constructive merit in your understanding of the verses.

Very much like clouds without rain.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
Mar 28, 2016
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As a linguist, I agree with what you're saying - yes, the word "glôssa" in ancient and Koiné Greek, means "language" (well, actually it means the physical organ of the tongue, but by extension, 'language').

You are correct, there are no known provable cases of xenoglossy - anywhere. Plenty of anecdotes circulating around, but nothing concrete.

See post #624 - essentially expands on what you're saying.
The tongue of God's prophecy is the law of God. Not open to the oral traditions of men, it proves itself "self interpreting"
The Holy Spirt would never suggest hearing the voice of a stranger to all the languages of the world to include their own. .

Prophecy as it is written proves the known language by comparisons. If not spiritual understanding when the words are heard then nothing can be compared as the proper hermeneutics .

Can't compare "Saw lasaw saw lasaw Qaw laqaw qaw laqaw. Ze’er sham ze’er sham.” and compare it to Saw lasaw saw lasaw Qaw laqaw qaw laqaw. Ze’er sham ze’er sham.”

But they would not listen to him. So the Lord’s words will be senseless sounds to them:“Saw lasaw saw lasaw. Qaw laqaw qaw laqaw. Ze’er sham ze’er sham.”When the people try to walk, they will fall backwards. They will be defeated, trapped, and captured. Isaiah 28

They mock and say they will not be defeated yet the sign is clearly against adding the oral traditions making the interpretation without effect.

Mocking proves mocking. Falling backwards shows the kind of judgment to those who trust the oral traditions as song of natural unconverted mankind.

Then its child's play to say we will make our own songs and dance to the falling back slain in the spirit tune .Mocking the spirit of judgment .

Luke 7:32 They are like unto children sitting in the marketplace, and calling one to another, and saying, We have piped unto you, and ye have not danced; we have mourned to you, and ye have not wept.
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
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You hurl verses around aiming them at people and you have no constructive merit in your understanding of the verses.

Very much like clouds without rain.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
why do you say that/ I am not doing that I was speaking only to you not "people." I will take this comment as you have given up and failed to use the word of God to prove your point. Were done I have placed you on ignore
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
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@CS1 My post to you was in continuation of our discussion of when the disciples should be termed "saved" because you'd suggested it has to be at either John 20:22 or at Acts 2. I basically think it presumptuous to apply the term "saved"(as a declaration of their eternal security) at either place. And I see no need to make that declaration at either place.

I leave it up to God to make that particular declaration, and it sounds like you are also now making that same argument to others.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby

I don't remember if I asked nor do I remember if you answered. When did the disciples come to saving knowledge?

what did Jesus do when HE breathed on them in John 20:22?

what did Luke 24:45 mean where it says:
Luke 24:45 "Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,"


How did HE open their understanding?
why did Jesus breath on them?

I thank you in advance for your answer
 
Apr 5, 2020
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Are you saying Benny Hinn is a phony?



I am saying what he or anyone does is strictly between them and God. I believe if someone was 100% completely aligned with God and walking like Christ instructed us to, what we see by miracles can be done today.

If we can literally move a mountain by the amount of Faith the size of a mustard seed, we can be in Faith and bring healing to others through and by the Holy Spirit of God.
^
I believe that with all of my entire being 100%
 

Truth7t7

Well-known member
May 19, 2020
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I am saying what he or anyone does is strictly between them and God. I believe if someone was 100% completely aligned with God and walking like Christ instructed us to, what we see by miracles can be done today.

If we can literally move a mountain by the amount of Faith the size of a mustard seed, we can be in Faith and bring healing to others through and by the Holy Spirit of God.
^
I believe that with all of my entire being 100%
Benny Hinn, Kenneth Copeland, and a whole bunch more of the prosperity gospel, they are a bunch of (Phony's) fleecing the flock for gain $$$$$
 
Apr 5, 2020
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Benny Hinn, Kenneth Copeland, and a whole bunch more of the prosperity gospel, they are a bunch of (Phony's) fleecing the flock for gain $$$$$


I will say this much, because, I believe in the "Touch not my Annointed" Command.
The Prosperity Message is not Biblical and False Doctrine!
 

KelbyofGod

Senior Member
Oct 8, 2017
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I don't remember if I asked nor do I remember if you answered.

1. When did the disciples come to saving knowledge?
2. What did Jesus do when HE breathed on them in John 20:22?
3. what did Luke 24:45 mean where it says: "Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,"
4
. How did HE open their understanding?
5. why did Jesus breath on them?

I thank you in advance for your answer
I hope it's ok that I added numbers to your questions so they are easier to reference.
1. I'm not sure what you mean by this question.

2. I see that he breathed on them. I also see that the statements that accompany that action are the great commission, which has to do with two things.. A) Himself pouring out the Holy Ghost, and B) Them baptizing for remission of sins in his name. But the exact purpose of him breathing on them is something I don't claim to understand. And I'll pray about it rather than jump to conclusions. But I will say that your interpretation of what it means initially sounds good but upon scrutiny doesn't line up with the additional facts.

3. I'm not sure in terms of describing what it means. I've had God open scriptures to me...like salvation-related and non-salvation-related scriptures before I became a Christian so I could choose my responses, AND other scriptures and entire groups of parables years after I'd become a Christian. So it doesn't seem absolutely tied to initial receiving of the Holy Ghost as you seem to suggest.

4. I don't know HOW he did it any more than I know HOW he heals. But I do know that the Promise from the Father = the Holy Ghost (which is to be given to all, if they will receive it) and they were told to wait for that promise until it is poured out (He says the same thing in Acts 1:4). And he says it AFTER he'd "opened their understanding" . Basically He's telling them "I'm responsible for the sending. You guys need to tarry until you do the receiving". Perhaps it could even be added "Meanwhile it will just hang in the air between us like that breath I breathed out"

5. I'm sticking with, "I don't know" until God reveals the answer to me. But it appears that this "Breathed on them" action is NOT required, because it didn't happen to Thomas. And if Thomas wasn't there for the "breathed on them" it stands to reason that Thomas HAS NOT yet received the Holy Ghost. So it appears that at LEAST Thomas was receiving the Holy Ghost on the day of Pentecost...and so were the rest of those in the upper room. And as far as I understand it, so were the rest of the eleven. That's why people who receive speaking in tongues are called "Pentecostal"...because they receive the Holy Ghost just like they did on the day of Pentecost.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby
 
Mar 28, 2016
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I am saying what he or anyone does is strictly between them and God. I believe if someone was 100% completely aligned with God and walking like Christ instructed us to, what we see by miracles can be done today.

If we can literally move a mountain by the amount of Faith the size of a mustard seed, we can be in Faith and bring healing to others through and by the Holy Spirit of God.
^
I believe that with all of my entire being 100%
According to what your eyes see like those who made the apostles into gods in the likeness of men in Acts 14 . that 100%

And when the people saw what Paul had done, they lifted up their voices, saying in the speech of Lycaonia, The gods are come down to us in the likeness of men Acts 14:11

That the same 100% as Simon saw as a great financial opportunity.

Acts 8:17-19 King James Version (KJV)Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost. And when Simon saw that through laying on of the apostles' hands the Holy Ghost was given, he offered them money,$$$$$$
Saying, Give me also this
power, that on whomsoever I lay hands, he may receive the Holy Ghost.

No power coming from dead flesh but rather the other way around. Not upside down as the faithless Jews chased after

Power given to it ,

2 Corinthians 4:7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.
 
Apr 5, 2020
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According to what your eyes see like those who made the apostles into gods in the likeness of men in Acts 14 . that 100%

And when the people saw what Paul had done, they lifted up their voices, saying in the speech of Lycaonia, The gods are come down to us in the likeness of men Acts 14:11

That the same 100% as Simon saw as a great financial opportunity.

Acts 8:17-19 King James Version (KJV)Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost. And when Simon saw that through laying on of the apostles' hands the Holy Ghost was given, he offered them money,$$$$$$
Saying, Give me also this
power, that on whomsoever I lay hands, he may receive the Holy Ghost.

No power coming from dead flesh but rather the other way around. Not upside down as the faithless Jews chased after

Power given to it ,

2 Corinthians 4:7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.


Nice connection!

But it is still not my job to make these preachers into something good or bad. My job is after hearing their message to judge if it is God or not. My job is not to tear down the preacher. Even when the message is False Doctrine that still is between the reason they taught it and God. Even though I would reject their message, that is as far as it goes. My job is to pray for them that God will deal with them how God chooses to deal with them. Not how I would deal with them.
 
Mar 28, 2016
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I will say this much, because, I believe in the "Touch not my Annointed" Command.
The Prosperity Message is not Biblical and False Doctrine!
Yes "Touch not my Annointed" or he could and will send by spirit of judgment indicating by a person making a noise and fall backward indicating the breaking of the neck of a unbeliever not redeemed by the Lamb.

Judas was used as one example. when they asked are you the one he said I Am twice. The father protecting his anointed one. the force of the rebuke drove Judas back and fell to the ground to indicate he was under the spirit of Judgment

The Law of the spirit of judgment it is understood by the tribe of Dan .Using his name in parable to give us the understanding of faith . The bible informs us even after warning them who walk by sight over and over. They still fall backward mocking the authority of sola scriptural just loving the tools of "wonderment" marveling and falling back and rising. Filler up. Be careful its les dangerous than drinking poison but what if someone forget to catch . 911 would leave a different kind of experience to store in memory .

The law would seem circular. When God sends a strong delusion .they fall backward over and over again sending to those who have no faith a strong delusion

Genesis 49:17Dan shall be a serpent by the way, an adder in the path, that biteth the horse heels, so that his rider shall fall backward.

.
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
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@CS1 My post to you was in continuation of our discussion of when the disciples should be termed "saved" because you'd suggested it has to be at either John 20:22 or at Acts 2. I basically think it presumptuous to apply the term "saved"(as a declaration of their eternal security) at either place. And I see no need to make that declaration at either place.

I leave it up to God to make that particular declaration, and it sounds like you are also now making that same argument to others.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby
Ok is it is
I hope it's ok that I added numbers to your questions so they are easier to reference.
1. I'm not sure what you mean by this question.

2. I see that he breathed on them. I also see that the statements that accompany that action are the great commission, which has to do with two things.. A) Himself pouring out the Holy Ghost, and B) Them baptizing for remission of sins in his name. But the exact purpose of him breathing on them is something I don't claim to understand. And I'll pray about it rather than jump to conclusions. But I will say that your interpretation of what it means initially sounds good but upon scrutiny doesn't line up with the additional facts.

3. I'm not sure in terms of describing what it means. I've had God open scriptures to me...like salvation-related and non-salvation-related scriptures before I became a Christian so I could choose my responses, AND other scriptures and entire groups of parables years after I'd become a Christian. So it doesn't seem absolutely tied to initial receiving of the Holy Ghost as you seem to suggest.

4. I don't know HOW he did it any more than I know HOW he heals. But I do know that the Promise from the Father = the Holy Ghost (which is to be given to all, if they will receive it) and they were told to wait for that promise until it is poured out (He says the same thing in Acts 1:4). And he says it AFTER he'd "opened their understanding" . Basically He's telling them "I'm responsible for the sending. You guys need to tarry until you do the receiving". Perhaps it could even be added "Meanwhile it will just hang in the air between us like that breath I breathed out"

5. I'm sticking with, "I don't know" until God reveals the answer to me. But it appears that this "Breathed on them" action is NOT required, because it didn't happen to Thomas. And if Thomas wasn't there for the "breathed on them" it stands to reason that Thomas HAS NOT yet received the Holy Ghost. So it appears that at LEAST Thomas was receiving the Holy Ghost on the day of Pentecost...and so were the rest of those in the upper room. And as far as I understand it, so were the rest of the eleven. That's why people who receive speaking in tongues are called "Pentecostal"...because they receive the Holy Ghost just like they did on the day of Pentecost.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby
LOl, I like your comment that you will pray about and not jump to the conclusion. That is not pithy Just so you know. it's more suggesting other have :).

remember facts are lower form than truth.
 

KelbyofGod

Senior Member
Oct 8, 2017
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Ok is it is


LOl, I like your comment that you will pray about and not jump to the conclusion. That is not pithy Just so you know. it's more suggesting other have :).

remember facts are lower form than truth.
And I was honest in saying I would pray about it until he answers. Sometimes I've waited years or even decades for him to answer. Other times he's answered immediately. I simply know that he is faithful to answer and it is always worth the wait.

This is kind of on another topic, but one time our church was wondering what was meant by Matthew 24:28 and Luke 17:37. One of our pastors prayed about it, got an answer, and told us "The eagles represent Angels coming to get us, the sacrifice" along with more explanation.

Most others said something like "Oh, that explains it." But I couldn't simply agree. I had to know for myself, so I said "Yeah, that COULD be what it means, but I want to know for myself so I'll go pray about it, too." and I did.

One day I was reading and came across this story in Genesis 15 . I recommend reading the whole chapter, but here's the section that stood out with some surrounding verses:

Genesis 15:8-13 KJV​
And he said, Lord GOD, whereby shall I know that I shall inherit it? [9] And he said unto him, Take me an heifer of three years old, and a she goat of three years old, and a ram of three years old, and a turtledove, and a young pigeon. [10] And he took unto him all these, and divided them in the midst, and laid each piece one against another: but the birds divided he not. [11] And when the fowls came down upon the carcases, Abram drove them away. [12] And when the sun was going down, a deep sleep fell upon Abram; and, lo, an horror of great darkness fell upon him. [13] And he said unto Abram, Know of a surety that thy seed shall be a stranger in a land that is not theirs, and shall serve them; and they shall afflict them four hundred years;​

I thought "Hey, here's a situation where there is again an offering, and birds, so I'll ask to see what's going on in THIS version. So I did, and prayed earnestly.

When the answer didn't come right away, I prayed even more earnestly "God show me what's going on here. I want to see what's really going on."

Then he spoke to me saying "Are you sure you want to see what's going on?

And at first I thought "Well, of course I do! I wouldn't be asking if I didn't want to know." but then I thought "Wait... if God is asking that question... he's not doing it for nothing. He must be trying to warn me about something." So after a little more consideration, I adjusted my prayer to reflect his warning.

I said "Maybe I don't want to SEE what's going on, but I do want to understand. Would you open my understanding?" And he did.

Turns out there were some similarities and some differences between this story and the one our pastor had prayed about. In both stories the birds DO represent spirits and the offerings do represent US. But in his story it was "eagles". In my story it was "fowls"... there's a difference. Fowls are a distinctly unclean bird.

God had me look up the word "fowl". It ultimately comes from the root word "ravenous" (think Raven) and it means "insane with hunger" Then he had me consider it from the sacrifice's point of view. The sacrifices are completely open and vulnerable...naked in a way they had never been before...unable to do the least thing to protect themselves from the ravenous onslaught of insane spirits trying to deny them the completion of their purpose. And I had asked to SEE that (originally). That would have scared the pudding out of me (so to speak) and I am thankful he gave me the warning. It scared me enough just to receive the understanding.

Another of our pastors (he had other gifts too) told us that if you have a few deep experiences with God, you won't be quick to walk away. He's right. And that's what I tell people now, too.

Please forgive the length of this post.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby
 
Mar 21, 2009
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The Azusa events are not even remotely close to what some charismatic movements are creating and turning this into. To say that those in 1900 who Spoke in Tongues under the true outpouring of the Holy Spirit are related to today's flopping around like a fish out of water is creating a false version of what God did and now what man has invented.
I have been around charismatic churches for almost 40 years and I have never seen a fish flopper. LOL
 
L

lenna

Guest
I will say this much, because, I believe in the "Touch not my Annointed" Command.
The Prosperity Message is not Biblical and False Doctrine!

Anyone flashing the 'touch not mine anointed' badge is going to cause at least one of my eyebrows to be raised.
 
Apr 5, 2020
2,273
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I have been around charismatic churches for almost 40 years and I have never seen a fish flopper. LOL


Neither have I, but in the Reddings' California Church under the leadership of Bill Johnson you will.
 
Apr 5, 2020
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Anyone flashing the 'touch not mine anointed' badge is going to cause at least one of my eyebrows to be raised.


It's our job to recognize the Truth from the False Doctrines. But that does not mean we must destroy a human being because they are a False Teacher. It only means, we need to be leary of them and pray for them.
 
L

lenna

Guest
It's our job to recognize the Truth from the False Doctrines. But that does not mean we must destroy a human being because they are a False Teacher. It only means, we need to be leary of them and pray for them.

I have never destroyed anyone in my life. Discernment is what is needed. But some of them should have their bank accounts emptied.

I should add that many of those super duper badge flashing false prophets and teachers actually HAVE destroyed lives. They are accountable for that.