The Quran similarity with bible

Therapon · Feb 28, 2013

According to you, Therapon is too, but in this case I happen to agree with you. <grin>

Abiding · Feb 28, 2013

The Koran was not written by early Arab Christians, I think Mohammed wrote down the words that supposedly Allah said, but really probably picked and chose from the Hebrew Scriptures and the Bible. Secondly, the term Trinity does not exist in the Bible but it is implied and does make sense and was not added. In Koran, the idea of God being a Trinity, does not really exist. At the core of Islam it is non-Trinitarian monotheism, basically that God is God and is not a Trinity. In fact the Bible contains an old psalm that dates a few years before Paul's writings (this is mentioned in the book called The Case for Christ by Lee Strobel). The Koran does not say that Jesus is God as far as I know. First of all human translations or versions of the Bible do have their flaws but that is because they are trying their hardest to make the Bible more readable, memorizable, and more close to the original ancient Hebrew and Greek manuscripts. God bless.

when did he learn to write. there was a man groomed as a scribe in rabbinic schools that did
most of the writing. then many alterations were made.

Bowman · Feb 28, 2013

willfollowsGod said:

The Koranic theme is decidedly Christian....and only Jews & Christians were literate at that time...this, then, leaves only Christians to have penned the text.

No one named 'Muhammad' had anything to do with the Koran, according to the Koran.

The Trinity concept is alive and well in the Koran, actually...

Islam represents a poor and failed attempt at interpreting the Koran.

Reference?

Yes, it does...scores of chapters are named in His honor...

crossnote · Feb 28, 2013

JohnKnox said:

Would you mix poison with your daily bread?

willfollowsGod · Feb 28, 2013

Dear Bowman, the reference is from The Case for Christ by Lee Strobel it is in the Bible but I don't know if it is in Romans or not. Islam values the Koran calls it uncreated. Again, Christians did not pen the Koran, the Bible already existed. Probably, Mohammed's followers did it.

crossnote · Feb 28, 2013

ed said:

Hi JohnKnox,
Another point that seems to have totally escaped you and certainly all muslims is that the old testament was God showing us His control over all matters relating to this earth. This age has finished. We know and understand that God is the supreme commander and no one is able to prevent Him from His will and His prophecy. Now with Christ we are learning the lessons that God also has total control over the spiritual realms and we are learning to overcome the world, this earthly place, because we are spiritual.
Muslims are still occupied with the matters of this earth. Christianity has moved beyond this.
love
edwin

that false claim could be used to all cults that use Scripture.

Bowman · Feb 28, 2013

willfollowsGod said:

What is it supposed to demonstrate?

Christians must have penned it....

RedTent · Feb 28, 2013

The devil always uses spiritual truths along with his lies. He did that from the first, convincing Eve that it was fine to know both good and evil. He used pretty good reasoning and then said "you will not die". Follow how satan spoke to Jesus when jesus spent forty days in the wilderness. He used some truth to cover the lies then, too.

Anonimous · Feb 28, 2013

cfultz3 said:

I suppose that will be looked at as "symbolic" as well? Most of the toher events seem to be called that lately. It is what it is...give the author a break...he was smart enough to know beheading when he saw it happening.

I'm sure when a believer is being taken to the block he'll ask, "Now, this is symbolic right? What does this really mean for me?"

HeIsNowHere · Feb 28, 2013

The Quran denies the diety of Jesus Christ or that God's only Son who was God himself in the flesh. Because it denies that
and says Jesus was a prophet even though he claimed to be God, it is from Satan. Jesus taught his disciples to love everyone including enemies as you love yourself. Mohammed taught that anyone who has tried to be converted to Islam but does not should be killed. The evil in the Suria law is simply terrible such as instructions about the proper way to beat your wife. The Quran copied the Bible a bit but got many parts completely wrong and those are so ridiculous. The Bible and Christianity teaches that only by believing in Jesus as the Song of God can one have reconciliation with God and eternal life. The Quran denies this teaching and tells us the Bible is in error. Let people read the Quran and study the differences, even you should do that. Then consider which has truth because both cannot. There is evil in the world based on Satan who is behind this false religion that kills, destroys, and sets to conquer by the sword. If prefer to follow the King of the Universe Jesus Christ and his commands which are simple and easy, 1. Love God with all your heart 2. Love your neighbor as yourself. If everyone did this what a wonderful world this would be. If everyone followed the prophet Mohammed death, violence, and bloodshed would be the norm.

crossnote · Feb 28, 2013

Jacobs said:

Well Muhammad pbuh was illiterate.

Is the big bang a half baked idea ?

Do not the Unbelievers see that the heavehns and the earth were joined together (as one unit of creation), before we clove them asunder? We made from water every living thing. Will they not then believe? (Qur'an, 21:30)

Also the expanding of the universe was just plucked out of the air lol

And it is We Who have constructed the heaven with might, and verily, it is We Who are steadily expanding it. (Qur'an, 51:47)

The idea of clouds until recently is they are floating on air. Just recently it was found a cloud can hold up 300,000 tons of water. How they can remain aloft is truly amazing.

It is He Who sends out the winds, bringing advance news of His mercy, so that when they have lifted up the heavy clouds, We dispatch them to a dead land and send down water to it, by means of which We bring forth all kinds of fruit... (Qur'an, 7:57)
Christians have spent millions on Arabic scholars trying to find contradictions in the Quran. After all that time and money they came up with some lame findings.

A Quranic institute in Hanover spent decades collecting Qurans from all over the world, including the white house. They compared it to the first one and besides some typo mistakes the Qurans were identicals. This Quranic institute unfortunately was bombed by the allies in World War 2.

In the end if your heart is closed to the truth, no matter how obvious the signs are, you will refuse to see it. Some of you may still have time.

so? that only proves the koran is consistent in it's false teachings.

Bowman · Mar 1, 2013

HeIsNowHere said:

Actually. the Koran confirms Jesus' deity.

Jesus went by many titles - even in the Bible, He was also called a prophet, among numerous others...islam has chosen to hold to this one in lieu of His other titles...

Like what?

The Koran confirms the Biblical stance.

I have studied the Arabic of the Koran for the past 15 years.

Bowman · Mar 1, 2013

Jacobs said:

أولم ير الذين كفروا أن السموت والأرض كانتا رتقا ففتقنهما وجعلنا من الماء كل شيء حي أفلا يؤمنون

Awa lam yara allatheena kafaroo anna alssamawati waal-arda kanata ratqan fafataqnahuma wajaAAalna mina alma-i kulla shay-in hayyin afala yu/minoona

21.30 Did those whom they disbelieved not see that the heavens and the earth, the two were closed up, so we rent them asunder, and we made from the water every thing, living one, so do they not believe?

Looking at this first verse, the writers of this piece clearly were communicating Biblical eschatology - and not any modern scientific phenomenon such as the ‘big bang’ or evolution.

The verse preceding this is discussing Hell.

21.30 is simply an extension of 21.29, which further elaborates upon the disbelievers not comprehending the end times in which Jesus opens the seals and splits both heaven and earth – just as described in the Book of Revelation.

The mentioning of water here, as in numerous other areas of the Koran, refers to the rebirth of mankind as a new creation in the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ.

So…this first selection cannot possibly have intrigued any early Muslim (even if they were literate!) to pursue the natural sciences…you would not launch from discussing Hell into an immediate discussion of natural creation.

This verse would, however, point to the Holy Bible as the source of inspiration for the ones able to comprehend it.

Bowman · Mar 3, 2013

Jacobs said:

There is ONE passage used by Muslims as evidence that the Koran foretells of an expanding universe.

This passage is Sura 51:47.

Let’s see how this verse is commonly translated:

And the heaven, We raised it high with power, and most surely We are the makers of things ample. (Shakir).

We have built the heaven with might, and We it is Who make the vast extent (thereof). (Pickthall).

We constructed the sky with our hands, and we will continue to expand it. (Khalifa).

With power and skill did We construct the Firmament: for it is We Who create the vastness of space. (Yusuf Ali).

And WE have built the heavens with our own hands, and, verily, WE have vast powers. (Sher Ali). (Note: the verse in question has changed from 51:47, to 51:48 in this translation).

Sura 51:47 is so vague that 4 out of 5 translations don’t even apply “expansion” to the meaning.

Here is a Literal rendering of Sura 51:47:

And the sky/space We built/constructed it with power/support and We are extending /spreading. (Sura 51:47)

Let’s assume, for the sake of argument, that the Literal rendering of the Sura 51:47 is the most accurate and correct interpretation that can be gleaned from the Koran. Let’s also assume that this ONE vague passage somehow tells of an expanding Universe as we know it today.

Let’s now see what the Bible has to say regarding an expanding universe, thousands of years before the Koran.

The characteristic of the universe stated more frequently than any other in the Bible is its being “stretched out.” In verse after verse, FIVE different Bible authors give confirmation of an expanding universe. These penned statements occur in eleven different verses:

Job 9:8; Psalm 104:2; Isaiah 40:22; 42:5; 44:24; 45:12; 48:13; 51:13; Jeremiah 10:12; 51:15; and Zechariah 12:1.

Job 37:18 appears to be a twelfth verse to make this statement. However, the word for “heavens” or “skies” is shehaqim, which refers to the clouds of fine particles (of water or dust) located in Earth’s atmosphere, not the shamayim, the heavens of the astronomical universe.

What is particularly interesting about the eleven verses is that different Hebrew verb forms are used to describe the cosmic stretching.

Three verb tenses are used in these verses:
1) God alone expands the universe.
2) God fixed expansion.
3) God controls.

Three of the eleven verses (Job 9:8, Isaiah 44:24 & 45:12) make the point that God alone was responsible for the cosmic stretching.

Seven verses (Job 9:8, Psalm 104:2, Isaiah 40:22, 42:5, 44:24, 51:13,, & Zechariah 12:1) employ the Qal active participle form of the verb “natah”. This form literally means “the stretcher out of them” (the heavens) and implies continual or ongoing stretching.

Four verses (Isaiah 45:12, 48:13, Jeremiah 10:12, & 51:15) use the Qal perfect form. This form literally means that the stretching of the heavens was completed or finished some time ago.

That the Bible really does claim that the stretching out of the heavens is both “finished” and “ongoing” is made all the more evident in Isaiah 40:22. There we find two different verbs used in two different forms. In the first of the final two parallel poetic lines, “stretches out” is the verb “natah” (Strongs #5186) in the Qal active participle form. In the second (final) line the verb “spreads them out” is “mathah” (Strongs #4969) (used only this one time in the OT) in the waw consecutive plus Qal imperfect form, so that literally we might translate it “and he has spread them out”. This one verse literally states that God is both continuing to stretch out the heavens and has stretched them out.

This simultaneously finished and ongoing aspect of the cosmic stretching is identical to the Big Bang concept of cosmic expansion. According to the Big Bang, at the creation event all the physics (specifically, the laws, constants, and equations of physics) are instantly created, designed, and finished so as to guarantee an ongoing, continual expansion of the universe at exactly the right rates with respect to time so that physical life will be possible.

This Biblical claim for simultaneously finished and ongoing acts of creation, incidentally, is not limited to just the universe’s expansion. The same claim, for example, is made for God’s laying Earth’s foundations (Isaiah 51:3, Zechariah 12:1). This is consistent with the geophysical discovery that certain long-lived radiometric elements were placed into the earth’s crust a little more than four billion years ago in just the right quantities so as to guarantee the continual building of continents.

Here are the relevant Biblical verses in context.
Note: All verses are from Jay P. Green’s Interlinear Bible

Strong’s #5186 natah naw-taw' a primitive root; to stretch or spread out

Strong’s #2946 taphach taw-fakh' a primitive root; to flatten out or extend (as a tent);

Strong’s #4969 mathach maw-thakh' a primitive root; to stretch out:--spread out.

Job 9:8
7 the One speaking to the sun, and it does not rise: and He sets a seal around the stars.
8 STRETCHING out the heavens by Himself, and walking on the waves of the sea;
9 who made the Bear, Orion, and Pleiades, and the chambers of the south;

Psalm 104:2
1 Bless Jehovah, O my soul! O Jehovah my God, You are very great; You have put on honor and majesty,
2 covering Yourself with light like a cloak, and STRETCHING out the heavens like a curtain;
3 who lays beams in the waters of His upper rooms, setting thick clouds as His chariots; walking on the wings of the wind.

Isaiah 40:22
21 Have you not known? Have you not heard? Was it not told to you from the beginning? Did you not discern from the foundations of the earth?
22 He who sits on the circle of the earth, even its dwellers are like grasshoppers; He who STRETCHES the heavens like a curtain, and SPREADS them like a tent to live in.
23 who gives potentates into nothing – He makes judges of the earth as nothing.

[h=2]Isaiah 42:5[/h]4 He shall not fail nor be crushed until He has set justice in the earth; and the coasts shall wait for His law.
5 So says Jehovah God, creating the heavens and STRETCHING them out; spreading out the earth and its offspring, giving breath to the people on it, and spirit to those walking in it:
6 I, Jehovah, have called You in righteousness, and will hold Your hand, and will keep You, and give You for a covenant of the people, for a light of the nations.

Isaiah 44:24
23 Sing, O heavens, for Jehovah has done it. Shout, O lower parts of the earth; burst forth into praise, O mountains. O forest, and every tree in it, sing praise, because Jehovah has redeemed Jacob, and glorifies Himself in Israel.
24 So says Jehovah, your Redeemer and your Former from the womb; I am Jehovah, who makes all things; STRETCHING out the heavens; I alone, spreading out the earth. Who was with me?
25 frustrating the signs of liars; yea, He makes diviners mad; turning wise ones backward, and making their knowledge foolish.

Isaiah 45:12
11 So says Jehovah, the Holy One of Israel, and his Former, Do you ask me the things to come? Do you give command to Me about My sons, and about the work of My hands?
12 I have made the earth, and created man on it. I STRETCHED out the heavens with My hands; and I have set all their host in order.
13 I raised him up in righteousness, and have made straight all his ways. He shall build My city, and he will release My captives; not for a price, nor for reward, says Jehovah of hosts.

Isaiah 48:13
12 So says Jehovah, the Holy One of Israel, and his Former, Do you ask me the things to come? Do you give command to Me about My sons, and about the work of My hands?
13 My hand surely founded the earth, and My right hand has STRETCHED out the heavens; I called, they stood up together.
14 All of you gather and hear; Who among them has declared these things? Jehovah has loved him. He will do His pleasure on Babylon; yea His arm shall be on the Chaldeans.

Isaiah 51:13
12 I, I am he comforting you. Who are you, that you should fear from man? He shall die! And from the son of man? He is given as grass.
13 And you forget your maker Jehovah, who STRETCHED out the heavens and founded the earth. And you dread continually, everyday, from the fury of the oppressor, since he was ready to destroy. And where is the fury of the oppressor?
14 Bowed he hurries to be free, and not that he die in the pit, and not that he lack his bread.

Jeremiah 10:12
11 So you shall say the them, The gods who have not made the heavens and the earth, they shall perish from the earth, and from under these heavens.
12 It is he who made the earth by His power; who established the world by His wisdom, and who STRETCHED out the heavens by His understanding.
13 When He utters His voice, there is a noise of waters in the heavens. He causes the vapors to go up from the ends of the earth; He makes lightnings for the rain, and brings forth the wind out of His storehouses.

Jeremiah 51:15
14 Jehovah of hosts has sworn by himself, saying, Surely I will fill you with men, as with locusts; and they shall lift up a shout against you.
15 He has made the earth by His power; He has established the world by his wisdom, and STRETCHED out the heavens by his understanding.
16 When he gives his voice, a multitude of waters is in the heavens; and He causes the mists to ascend from the end of the earth. He makes lightnings for rain, and brings forth the wind out of His treasuries.

Zechariah 12:1
1 The burden of the word of Jehovah for Israel, says Jehovah, who STRETCHES forth the heavens, and lays the foundation of the earth, and forms the spirit of man within him.
2 Behold, I will make Jerusalem a cup of trembling to all the peoples all round, and it shall also be against Judah also in the siege against Jerusalem.

Summary

Going under the vague assumption that Sura 51:47 is speaking of an expanding Universe, it is clearly seen that the Bible stated an expanding Universe abundantly THOUSANDS of years BEFORE the Koran. At best, the Koran once again is borrowing from God’s word, the Bible.

Ref: RTB

jb · Mar 3, 2013

nighte said:

There is absolutely NO similarities between the Bible (The Scriptures, Old and New Testaments) and the Quran, the Bible is divinely inspired by God (2Tim 3v16 KJV), the Quran is NOT...

Yahweh Shalom...

crossnote · Mar 3, 2013

Bowman,
. Why does the koran use the word 'We' in reference to creation. I thought they were strict monotheists.

Bowman · Mar 3, 2013

jb said:

While the Koran never claims to be divinely inspired, it does claim that it copied itself from the Holy Bible which was inspired.

Bowman · Mar 3, 2013

crossnote said:

Muslims, just like Jews, attempt to cover-up anything to do with the 'plurality' of the Creator.

'Plural of majesty' never existed anywhere in the ANE (Ancient near East), including Arabia....thus, when 'we' or 'us' are used, then it must impart a plurality of deity when used as such.

Here is a simple summary of how Jesus (i.e. The Truth) is even acknowledged ny the authors of the Koran in the creation of the Universe...

Creation through ‘The Truth’ Summary:

Bible (The Truth, Jesus Christ, created the Universe)

• In the Gospel of John, Jesus makes it plainly known, via the usage of the singular personal pronouns “autos”(dative), “ego”(nominative), and “emou”(genitive) that only He is ‘The Truth’ (John 14.6)
• John’s Gospel also initiates with the proclamation that the entire Universe was brought into existence through ‘The Truth’, Jesus Christ
• The entire Universe (kosmos) is repeatedly stated as emanating only though (dia) Jesus Christ, ‘The Truth’ (ho aletheia), as the casual agent. (John 1.1 – 17)
• In Colossians, Jesus Christ is stated as being the causal agent responsible for the entire Universe (Colossians 1.16)
• Three separate and distinct primary prepositions are used to describe Jesus’ creative power in Colossians (i.e. “en”, “dia”, & “eis”)
• Three separate prepositions were used here to make it crystal clear that three separate modes of operation are in effect at the same time
• In each case, the preposition is flanked by the masculine singular, “autos”
• The first instance of “autos” is in the dative singular masculine indicating that Jesus is the object of the primary preposition, “en”, rendered as “by”
• The second instance of “autos” is in the genitive singular masculine indicating that Jesus is in direct possession of the creative act – i.e. He is in complete control of it – and is attached to the preposition “dia” rendered as, “through”
• The third instance of “autos” is in the accusative singular masculine again indicating that Jesus is the direct object of the preposition, “eis”, rendered as “for”
• Thus, from this Biblical verse alone, creation is By, Through, and For Jesus Christ all at the same time…indicating, yet, again, that He is the Triune creator God of the Universe

Koran (The Truth, Jesus Christ, created the Universe)

• Per the classic definition, “alhaqqi” means ‘The Truth’, and is actually a name for “allah”, and a name for God, and yet, as we discover, a clear distinction is made between “allah” and ‘The Truth’
• Further compounding the situation is the fact that “alhaqqi” is applied to Jesus Christ in the Koran, and tells us that ‘The Truth’, is only Jesus Christ (4.171) – of which, makes Jesus Christ God Almighty, in and of itself
• The key phrase in 4.171 is “illa alhaqqa innama almaseehu AAeesa” i.e. “except The Truth (is) only The Messiah Jesus”
• The first word that we encounter in this phrase, after the term “allah”, is “illa”, which gives exception of two kinds to what follows it, as told to us by the classic definition… “1) Exception in which the thing excepted belongs to the same class or species to which the things from which an exception is sought to be made, belongs. “2) Exception in which the excepted thing belongs to a different class or species.”
• Using the first “exception” definition mandates that Jesus Christ is God
• Using the second “exception” definition mandates that Jesus Christ is in a class all by Himself – separate from “allah” – even though, “alhaqqa” (a name for God) is still directly applied to Jesus Christ
• Surveying the Koranic contextual usage of this term along with ‘The Truth’ clearly indicates that it is used in both definition fashions:

• Jesus is clearly deity class
• Jesus is clearly in a league apart from “allah”

• This exception, which applies to “alhaqqa”, (‘The Truth’) is then juxtaposed to the word “innama”
• The classic definition quite clearly states that “innama” “affirms a thing in relation to that which is mentioned after it.”
• The words mentioned after “innama” are none other than “almaseehu AAeesa” i.e. Jesus The Messiah
• Thus, “alhaqqi” (i.e. ‘The Truth’), is the “thing” that is being related to Jesus Christ – which is mentioned after it
• Hence, “The Truth is only Jesus Christ”
• Now that we understand that the authors’ of the Koran have the same Biblical understanding as to ‘The Truth’ pertaining only Jesus Christ; and that Jesus Christ is God; let’s define the one final term (bialhaqqi) in this discussion and see exactly how it is used to describe the creation of the Universe in the Koran
• The inseparable prefix “bi” in this word, interestingly carries with it the same definitions “by”, “through”, & “for”, same as found in the Holy Bible used to describe Jesus’ creation of the Universe. For this discussion we will just use the definition “through”
• Thus, for this study, “bialhaqqi” = through ‘The Truth’
• Five Koranic ayahs clearly separate and negate that “allah” solely created the heavens and the earth, and all that is between them – and, instead, gives exception (via the insertion of the term “illa”, i.e. except) juxtaposed to “bialhaqqi” (through ‘The Truth’), thus placing ‘The Truth’ into the necessary casual agent class – completely separate from “allah”, just as previously witnessed in 4.171. (10.5, 15.85, 30.8, 44.38 - 39, 46.3)
• One example is an open admission that previous verses are explained in detail (yufassilu al-ayati). The fact that this had to be mentioned in the first place demonstrates that the material that is being detailed (i.e. the Holy Bible) was already in existence (10.5)
• As further evidence that the causal agent for the creation of the Universe is through ‘The Truth’ (i.e. Jesus Christ); there are the following six ayahs (29.44, 14.19, 16.3, 39.5, 45.22, 64.3)
• This first example is even an open admission that previous revelation (i.e. the Holy Bible) contained this information (29.44)
• Reviewing, once again, 4.171, we are told that ‘The Truth', Jesus Christ, is also ‘The Word’
• Just as proclaimed in 4.171, this final ayah repeats and confirms that ‘The Truth’ through which the entire Universe is brought into being, is also ‘his Word’ (qawluhu alhaqqu) (6.73)

Earlmayknowornot · Mar 4, 2013

All you need to know is to take a good look at the countries that are dominated by Islam. They are the poorest nations on earth. Their women are treated as dogs. They are not allowed education and are slaves to their leaders. Now look at countries that are Christian, they enjoy liberty and education and equality. Sadly this is changing in America because the people are leaving God and placing their trust in education, psychology, science, and philosophy Look, since roe vs. wade 45 million people have been killed in the name of a good time. America your being judged. And we say we will never sacrifice are children to idols. Idolatry is self worship well I guess I need a new thread for that. Islam is not the sister to Christianity.

my_adonai_ · Mar 4, 2013

I do not know if you guys see this, but these type of posts always read to arguements really and i am hoping that this thread be closed, because its evident nighte did not come to seek truth really.

bottom line to me is that JESUS IS GOD, and aint no body gona change that for me, not only do i have biblical proof, but I AM THE LIVING PROOF.

Good day people, God bless you all

The Quran similarity with bible

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