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The nature of the language of Hebrews is more for picturesque speech. Hebrews does not have verbs in past, present or future. It has open and closed verbs. Sometimes the prophets would actually speak of a future time with a closed verb, as if it had already happened. They spoke proleptically. It is a different language altogether than English or Greek, where koine Greek is much more technical, each word is parsed, there are many different verb forms for past, present and future, in fact, you can tell from the ending of each word in a sentence where that word should be in the sentence. Impossible with English.
Figurative language is not hidden language, speaking in metaphors is not speaking unclearly. It actually gets the point across better. Look at Amos 4:1: Hear this word, you cows of Bashan who are on the mountain of Samaria, Who oppress the poor, who crush the needy, Who say to your husbands, "Bring now, that we may drink!"
Amos pictures fat, lazy women as cows who sit around chewing cud, and tromping on the poor under their feet. The meaning is very clear, even though there is a great metaphor.
And just so as not to be sexist Amos 6:1Woe to those who are at ease in Zion
And to those who feel secure in the mountain of Samaria,
The distinguished men of the foremost of nations,
To whom the house of Israel comes.
4Those who recline on beds of ivory
And sprawl on their couches,
And eat lambs from the flock
And calves from the midst of the stall,
6Who drink wine from sacrificial bowls
While they anoint themselves with the finest of oils,
Yet they have not grieved over the ruin of Joseph.
These are lazy men, gluttonous and fat, gorging themselves, and preening like peacocks anointing themselves with oil. Very picturesque, much metaphor, and abundantly clear.
Figurative language is not hidden language, speaking in metaphors is not speaking unclearly. It actually gets the point across better. Look at Amos 4:1: Hear this word, you cows of Bashan who are on the mountain of Samaria, Who oppress the poor, who crush the needy, Who say to your husbands, "Bring now, that we may drink!"
Amos pictures fat, lazy women as cows who sit around chewing cud, and tromping on the poor under their feet. The meaning is very clear, even though there is a great metaphor.
And just so as not to be sexist Amos 6:1Woe to those who are at ease in Zion
And to those who feel secure in the mountain of Samaria,
The distinguished men of the foremost of nations,
To whom the house of Israel comes.
4Those who recline on beds of ivory
And sprawl on their couches,
And eat lambs from the flock
And calves from the midst of the stall,
6Who drink wine from sacrificial bowls
While they anoint themselves with the finest of oils,
Yet they have not grieved over the ruin of Joseph.
These are lazy men, gluttonous and fat, gorging themselves, and preening like peacocks anointing themselves with oil. Very picturesque, much metaphor, and abundantly clear.
C
Really a theif in th night.. hah! no one evr finishes that verse.
"For you yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so comes as a thief in the night. [SUP] [/SUP]For when they say, “Peace and safety!” then sudden destruction comes upon them, as labor pains upon a pregnant woman. And they shall not escape. BUT YOU, brethren, are not in darkness (Christians rn't in darkness, those in sin r), so that this Day should overtake you as a thief (we will not b surprise when th end of days come, y?). You are all sons of light and sons of the day. We are not of the night nor of darkness. Therefore let us not sleep, as others do, but let us watch and be sober (becuz we will know th signs of th Lord coming and therefore will not b shocked when th theif comes, but watchin and ready)." 1 THES 5:2-6
The Lord will not come as a theif in th night to believers becuz Jesus and th apostles hav told us everything 2 expected and b ready 4. Plz! to those who believe in pre-trib, ask someone whos not and c if they could b right! Plz just tak a chance 2 c th truth of scripture! the girl who started this doctrine was wrong! th Word of god proves that she was a false prophet! don't let her b th reason u r surprised when th theif comes or worst don't recognize th theif! Plz! PLz.....
"For you yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so comes as a thief in the night. [SUP] [/SUP]For when they say, “Peace and safety!” then sudden destruction comes upon them, as labor pains upon a pregnant woman. And they shall not escape. BUT YOU, brethren, are not in darkness (Christians rn't in darkness, those in sin r), so that this Day should overtake you as a thief (we will not b surprise when th end of days come, y?). You are all sons of light and sons of the day. We are not of the night nor of darkness. Therefore let us not sleep, as others do, but let us watch and be sober (becuz we will know th signs of th Lord coming and therefore will not b shocked when th theif comes, but watchin and ready)." 1 THES 5:2-6
The Lord will not come as a theif in th night to believers becuz Jesus and th apostles hav told us everything 2 expected and b ready 4. Plz! to those who believe in pre-trib, ask someone whos not and c if they could b right! Plz just tak a chance 2 c th truth of scripture! the girl who started this doctrine was wrong! th Word of god proves that she was a false prophet! don't let her b th reason u r surprised when th theif comes or worst don't recognize th theif! Plz! PLz.....
lol,,,,"rolling on floor,laughing out loud",,,the part that worries me is will they know how to make yeast from potatoes,or cure a ham with sugar cure. what will happen then the economy really crashes and the lights and water go off?,,,how many acres of beans does it take to feed a family of 4 all year long?,,,thats the part that makes me most afraid about what your asking,,,"what all have they forgotten?",,,,,,,but bare in mind this is coming from a guy who always uses to many "commas",,,,,,lol
R
I can't speak for whether any particular person is inspired, but there is this -
Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech:
And not as Moses, which put a vail over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished:
But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.
But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.
Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.
Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech:
And not as Moses, which put a vail over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished:
But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.
But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.
Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.
Stop putting up the strawman that understanding something literally precludes the idea of symbols, metaphors or figures of speech. Literal is to the one-to-one correspondence of words to meaning, taking it the way language naturally takes it.
As opposed to mystical or allegorical or spiritualizing where there is no warrant to do so. I give examples of how the Bible is full of metaphors and how we have to understand the metaphors and you berate my hermeneutic. Please sister.
Zech 14:9And the LORD will be king over all the earth; in that day the LORD will be [the only] one, and His name [the only] one.
This is either true or it isn't. Is He a physical king or a spiritual King? Is He the only King and His name the only one? Or is it not? If it's a spiritual kingdom then are there any other gods or names that people serve? Is the Lord really the spiritual and only king of all the earth?
As opposed to mystical or allegorical or spiritualizing where there is no warrant to do so. I give examples of how the Bible is full of metaphors and how we have to understand the metaphors and you berate my hermeneutic. Please sister.
Zech 14:9And the LORD will be king over all the earth; in that day the LORD will be [the only] one, and His name [the only] one.
This is either true or it isn't. Is He a physical king or a spiritual King? Is He the only King and His name the only one? Or is it not? If it's a spiritual kingdom then are there any other gods or names that people serve? Is the Lord really the spiritual and only king of all the earth?
2
Arguing doesnt help it looses souls
just lay the truth out and ten percent will take it and 90 percent will stick with their laodicean know it all attitudes.
the majority of the world will fight to KILL commandment keepers, they are the churches of the dragon.
Dragon is symbol of satan and paganism.
If you ahve a relationship with Jesus and are his ambassador just tell them how much better it is than being a top dog in a pagan church
instead of micromanaging, you now are submissive to Jesus word.
lovely life
wouldnt go back for anything
Rev 12:3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.
Rev 12:4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.
there is no denying this:
there is an armageddon spiritula war coming
and there are two sides
Rev 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the church of Jesus, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
You will be either KEEPING and TEACHING the commandments
or you are going to be wroth and fighting and killing gods people.
there are no other choices.
just lay the truth out and ten percent will take it and 90 percent will stick with their laodicean know it all attitudes.
the majority of the world will fight to KILL commandment keepers, they are the churches of the dragon.
Dragon is symbol of satan and paganism.
If you ahve a relationship with Jesus and are his ambassador just tell them how much better it is than being a top dog in a pagan church
instead of micromanaging, you now are submissive to Jesus word.
lovely life
wouldnt go back for anything
Rev 12:3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.
Rev 12:4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.
there is no denying this:
there is an armageddon spiritula war coming
and there are two sides
Rev 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the church of Jesus, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
You will be either KEEPING and TEACHING the commandments
or you are going to be wroth and fighting and killing gods people.
there are no other choices.
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Revelation 12
3Then another sign appeared in heaven: and behold, a great red dragon having seven heads and ten horns, and on his heads were seven diadems. 4And his tail swept away a third of the stars of heaven and threw them to the earth. And the dragon stood before the woman who was about to give birth, so that when she gave birth he might devour her child. 5And she gave birth to a son, a male child, who is to rule all the nations with a rod of iron; and her child was caught up to God and to His throne.
Matthew 2:16
When Herod realized that he had been outwitted by the Magi, he was furious, and he gave orders to kill all the boys in Bethlehem and its vicinity who were two years old and under, in accordance with the time he had learned from the Magi.
3Then another sign appeared in heaven: and behold, a great red dragon having seven heads and ten horns, and on his heads were seven diadems. 4And his tail swept away a third of the stars of heaven and threw them to the earth. And the dragon stood before the woman who was about to give birth, so that when she gave birth he might devour her child. 5And she gave birth to a son, a male child, who is to rule all the nations with a rod of iron; and her child was caught up to God and to His throne.
Matthew 2:16
When Herod realized that he had been outwitted by the Magi, he was furious, and he gave orders to kill all the boys in Bethlehem and its vicinity who were two years old and under, in accordance with the time he had learned from the Magi.
where is Jesus right now and what is He doing.
Psalm 2
The Reign of the LORD’s Anointed
1 Why do the nations ragea
and the peoples plot in vain?
2 The kings of the earth set themselves,
and the rulers take counsel together,
against the LORD and against his Anointed, saying,
3 “Let us burst their bonds apart
and cast away their cords from us.”
4 He who sits in the heavens laughs;
the Lord holds them in derision.
5 Then he will speak to them in his wrath,
and terrify them in his fury, saying,
6 “As for me, I have set my King
on Zion, my holy hill.”
7 I will tell of the decree:
The LORD said to me, “You are my Son;
today I have begotten you.
8 Ask of me, and I will make the nations your heritage,
and the ends of the earth your possession.
9 You shall breakb them with a rod of iron
and dash them in pieces like a potter’s vessel.”
10 Now therefore, O kings, be wise;
be warned, O rulers of the earth.
11 Serve the LORD with fear,
and rejoice with trembling.
12 Kiss the Son,
lest he be angry, and you perish in the way,
for his wrath is quickly kindled.
Blessed are all who take refuge in him.
...
Acts 4
...“What shall we do with these men? For that a notable sign has been performed through them is evident to all the inhabitants of Jerusalem, and we cannot deny it. 17But in order that it may spread no further among the people, let us warn them to speak no more to anyone in this name.” 18So they called them and charged them not to speak or teach at all in the name of Jesus. 19But Peter and John answered them, “Whether it is right in the sight of God to listen to you rather than to God, you must judge, 20for we cannot but speak of what we have seen and heard.” 21And when they had further threatened them, they let them go, finding no way to punish them, because of the people, for all were praising God for what had happened. 22For the man on whom this sign of healing was performed was more than forty years old.
The Believers Pray for Boldness
23When they were released, they went to their friends and reported what the chief priests and the elders had said to them. 24And when they heard it, they lifted their voices together to God and said, “Sovereign Lord, who made the heaven and the earth and the sea and everything in them, 25who through the mouth of our father David, your servant,c said by the Holy Spirit,
“‘Why did the Gentiles rage,
and the peoples plot in vain?
26 The kings of the earth set themselves,
and the rulers were gathered together,
against the Lord and against his Anointed’d—
27for truly in this city there were gathered together against your holy servant Jesus, whom you anointed, both Herod and Pontius Pilate, along with the Gentiles and the peoples of Israel, 28to do whatever your hand and your plan had predestined to take place. 29And now, Lord, look upon their threats and grant to your servantse to continue to speak your word with all boldness, 30while you stretch out your hand to heal, and signs and wonders are performed through the name of your holy servant Jesus.” 31And when they had prayed, the place in which they were gathered together was shaken, and they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and continued to speak the word of God with boldness.
Psalm 2
The Reign of the LORD’s Anointed
1 Why do the nations ragea
and the peoples plot in vain?
2 The kings of the earth set themselves,
and the rulers take counsel together,
against the LORD and against his Anointed, saying,
3 “Let us burst their bonds apart
and cast away their cords from us.”
4 He who sits in the heavens laughs;
the Lord holds them in derision.
5 Then he will speak to them in his wrath,
and terrify them in his fury, saying,
6 “As for me, I have set my King
on Zion, my holy hill.”
7 I will tell of the decree:
The LORD said to me, “You are my Son;
today I have begotten you.
8 Ask of me, and I will make the nations your heritage,
and the ends of the earth your possession.
9 You shall breakb them with a rod of iron
and dash them in pieces like a potter’s vessel.”
10 Now therefore, O kings, be wise;
be warned, O rulers of the earth.
11 Serve the LORD with fear,
and rejoice with trembling.
12 Kiss the Son,
lest he be angry, and you perish in the way,
for his wrath is quickly kindled.
Blessed are all who take refuge in him.
...
Acts 4
...“What shall we do with these men? For that a notable sign has been performed through them is evident to all the inhabitants of Jerusalem, and we cannot deny it. 17But in order that it may spread no further among the people, let us warn them to speak no more to anyone in this name.” 18So they called them and charged them not to speak or teach at all in the name of Jesus. 19But Peter and John answered them, “Whether it is right in the sight of God to listen to you rather than to God, you must judge, 20for we cannot but speak of what we have seen and heard.” 21And when they had further threatened them, they let them go, finding no way to punish them, because of the people, for all were praising God for what had happened. 22For the man on whom this sign of healing was performed was more than forty years old.
The Believers Pray for Boldness
23When they were released, they went to their friends and reported what the chief priests and the elders had said to them. 24And when they heard it, they lifted their voices together to God and said, “Sovereign Lord, who made the heaven and the earth and the sea and everything in them, 25who through the mouth of our father David, your servant,c said by the Holy Spirit,
“‘Why did the Gentiles rage,
and the peoples plot in vain?
26 The kings of the earth set themselves,
and the rulers were gathered together,
against the Lord and against his Anointed’d—
27for truly in this city there were gathered together against your holy servant Jesus, whom you anointed, both Herod and Pontius Pilate, along with the Gentiles and the peoples of Israel, 28to do whatever your hand and your plan had predestined to take place. 29And now, Lord, look upon their threats and grant to your servantse to continue to speak your word with all boldness, 30while you stretch out your hand to heal, and signs and wonders are performed through the name of your holy servant Jesus.” 31And when they had prayed, the place in which they were gathered together was shaken, and they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and continued to speak the word of God with boldness.
This is my definition of literal. You've acknowledged that you've never read a book on hermeneutics, so acknowledge that you can understand. In this definition of literal this does not mean that there can't be a usual or natural meaning to a symbolic term or figure of speech, in fact, it includes this.
I referenced earlier that Amos 4 calls women "cows of Bashan", what is the literal meaning here? That these women were fat, lazy and walked on the poor like cows walk on grass. This is a one-to-one correspondence of words to meaning, a literal, natural understanding of the meaning of the words. Metaphors can be taken literally, meaningfully.
Come back when you've read a book on hermeneutics, any book, even a bad one. I'm sure you can understand what I mean, but I am getting tired of the ad hominem, it's beneath you, it really is.
I referenced earlier that Amos 4 calls women "cows of Bashan", what is the literal meaning here? That these women were fat, lazy and walked on the poor like cows walk on grass. This is a one-to-one correspondence of words to meaning, a literal, natural understanding of the meaning of the words. Metaphors can be taken literally, meaningfully.
Come back when you've read a book on hermeneutics, any book, even a bad one. I'm sure you can understand what I mean, but I am getting tired of the ad hominem, it's beneath you, it really is.
As is the case so often in the New Testament, the quote is a partial quote and seems to only have a partial fulfillment. The Acts believers partially quote the Psalm, showing how Jesus is indeed a cause for rage among the nations, but they don't quote the part where the ends of the earth have been dashed to pieces like broken pottery. Do we really spiritualize all this, or is there a spiritual meaning and also a very real physical meaning? Am I really doing damage to the text to let the text speak for itself, and believe that while there is a partial spiritual fulfillment, there is still room for a full physical and spiritual fulfillment?
There are books on hermeneutics, and there are books on "hermeneutics."
You're reading the wrong books.
We won't be agreeing that taking things literally means according to the letter (c-o-w),
only their natural (according to nature) meaning, that "cow" means "cow" and not humans.
We won't be agreeing that the "figurative" is literal.
You're reading the wrong books.
We won't be agreeing that taking things literally means according to the letter (c-o-w),
only their natural (according to nature) meaning, that "cow" means "cow" and not humans.
We won't be agreeing that the "figurative" is literal.
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I do not use the word rapture unless others in conversation are using it. For me it is a very useful word when communicating within the faithful when the dead will be raised to meet our Salvation on the cloud and then those who are yet alive (quick).
There is nothing silly about this teaching from the Word. If people want to argue that believers are to be taken away before during or after the greatest tribulation ever, well, reading Daniel alone shoud demonstrate when it will take place. No there is nothing silly about the rapture, I mean when we are all taken up to be with our Savior.
There is nothing silly about this teaching from the Word. If people want to argue that believers are to be taken away before during or after the greatest tribulation ever, well, reading Daniel alone shoud demonstrate when it will take place. No there is nothing silly about the rapture, I mean when we are all taken up to be with our Savior.
Who thinks 1 Cor 15:51-53 is linked to 1 Thes 4:13-17 thereby describing the same event? Just curious.
[TABLE="width: 303"]
[TR]
[TD]Event[/TD]
[TD]1 Thes 4[/TD]
[TD]1 Cor 15[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Saints coming from heaven[/TD]
[TD]x[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Lord Coming[/TD]
[TD]x[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Angel(s) Present[/TD]
[TD]x[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Voice of Anchangel[/TD]
[TD]x[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]A Shout[/TD]
[TD]x[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Alive Caught up/Gathered[/TD]
[TD]x[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Meet in clouds in "air"[/TD]
[TD]x[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Always be with the Lord[/TD]
[TD]x[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Timing Given[/TD]
[TD]x*[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]A Trumpet[/TD]
[TD]x[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Asleep Proceeding Living[/TD]
[TD]x[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Dead in Christ Resurrected[/TD]
[TD]x[/TD]
[TD]x[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Living "Changed"[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]x[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Kingdom of God[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]x[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]In a moment/twinkling of eye[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]x[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Last Trump or Trumpet
[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]x[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]* in 1 Thes 5:2[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[TABLE="width: 303"]
[TR]
[TD]Event[/TD]
[TD]1 Thes 4[/TD]
[TD]1 Cor 15[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Saints coming from heaven[/TD]
[TD]x[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Lord Coming[/TD]
[TD]x[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Angel(s) Present[/TD]
[TD]x[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Voice of Anchangel[/TD]
[TD]x[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]A Shout[/TD]
[TD]x[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Alive Caught up/Gathered[/TD]
[TD]x[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Meet in clouds in "air"[/TD]
[TD]x[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Always be with the Lord[/TD]
[TD]x[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Timing Given[/TD]
[TD]x*[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]A Trumpet[/TD]
[TD]x[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Asleep Proceeding Living[/TD]
[TD]x[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Dead in Christ Resurrected[/TD]
[TD]x[/TD]
[TD]x[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Living "Changed"[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]x[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Kingdom of God[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]x[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]In a moment/twinkling of eye[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]x[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Last Trump or Trumpet
[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]x[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]* in 1 Thes 5:2[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
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