THE RAPTURE/END OF DAYS

[pottersclay]

That's untrue. The rapture is God's doing. It doesn't matter what the people believe about the rapture. They will be raptured because they have no choice in the matter.

Not according to the parable...5 taken 5 left what was the difference?
All were virgins, all sleeping, but only half were taken. Why? What did the ones taken do?
I know that many here have never heard this taught this way but now if you look at the reason paul wrote to the Thessalonians it was to comfort them....why?....because they thought they were left behind. That they missed the coming of Christ.
I suppose they were shocked to get the letter from paul. Surly he would be taken.
The church was going through a terrible time. Paul writes to comfort them.

 

[cv5]

Not according to the parable...5 taken 5 left what was the difference?
All were virgins, all sleeping, but only half were taken. Why? What did the ones taken do?
I know that many here have never heard this taught this way but now if you look at the reason paul wrote to the Thessalonians it was to comfort them....why?....because they thought they were left behind. That they missed the coming of Christ.
I suppose they were shocked to get the letter from paul. Surly he would be taken.
The church was going through a terrible time. Paul writes to comfort them.

Read everything that TDW has to say on this particular passage. You will discover that this passage is definitely NOT speaking to the Church. The 10 virgins are not the Bride, the Bride that is unioned with Him. These 10 virgins (only 5 are ready) are part of the wedding party who accompanies the already wedded Couple to the wedding supper.

 

[pottersclay]

For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. Therefore comfort one another with these words.

For God did not appoint us to wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ, who died for us, that whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with Him. Therefore comfort each other and edify one another, just as you also are doing.

But you, brethren, are not in darkness, so that this Day should overtake you as a thief. You are all sons of light and sons of the day. We are not of the night nor of darkness. Therefore let us not sleep, as others do, but let us watch and be sober. For those who sleep, sleep at night, and those who get drunk are drunk at night. But let us who are of the day be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love, and as a helmet the hope of salvation.

Let us not sleep???
Meet in the air to be with the Lord ????....second coming Jesus goes returns to Israel where it all began when the gathering is complete. The house of his friends.

 

[pottersclay]

Read everything that TDW has to say on this particular passage. You will discover that this passage is definitely NOT speaking to the Church. The 10 virgins are not the Bride, the Bride that is unioned with Him. These 10 virgins (only 5 are ready) are part of the wedding party who accompanies the already wedded Couple to the wedding supper.

Receiving the Holy Spirit is the seal of God. Not having the oil as I have read is not having the Holy Spirit.

 

[DavidTree]

Still arguing about the rapture???? I pray for my brothers and sisters who don't believe in the rapture.
Why??? Because if you don't believe your not going😱😱😱😱😱 .
I want to be as bold as I can be and as truthful as I can. That's right your not going.
Read about the ten virgins again. Only the ones who were waiting were taken. The others left.
Only the ones that went out to greet the bridegroom went to bed in expectation were taken.

I believe that Jesus took my punishment for my sins on that cross. In fact I believe that Jesus took the full wrath of God that day on that cross. I have been baptised I have been washed and I have been cleansed by the blood of the Holy one of Israel. I have died and been raised in Christ Jesus. Amen

So what is left? Paul says that we are not appointed to wrath. He also says that "that which restrains must be taken away before the man of sin is revealed. He also says that we shall meet the Lord in the air along with those that died before us. And we shall be with the Lord for evermore.
Paul says that this all happens in a twinkling of a eye....less than a split second. No one's going to see it.
Jesus said it will happen in a time you think not so be constantly ready.

Please clarify "if you don't believe, your not going" - not believing what exactly - pre-trib rapture or the Gospel?

 

[Runningman]

Receiving the Holy Spirit is the seal of God. Not having the oil as I have read is not having the Holy Spirit.

Just out of curiosity for other opinions, how plausible is it that you think the oil referenced in the parable of the ten virgins is love for God?

 

[DavidTree]

Read everything that TDW has to say on this particular passage. You will discover that this passage is definitely NOT speaking to the Church. The 10 virgins are not the Bride, the Bride that is unioned with Him. These 10 virgins (only 5 are ready) are part of the wedding party who accompanies the already wedded Couple to the wedding supper.

Well, another pre-trib fib = Let's look at what the LORD did say:
The Parable of the Ten Virgins

1“At that time the kingdom of heaven will be like ten virgins who took their lamps and went out to meet the bridegroom. 2Five of them were foolish, and five were wise. 3The foolish ones took their lamps but did not take along any extra oil. 4But the wise ones took oil in flasks along with their lamps. 5When the bridegroom was delayed, they all became drowsy and fell asleep.

6At midnight the cry rang out: ‘Here is the bridegroom! Come out to meet him!’

7Then all the virgins woke up and trimmed their lamps. 8The foolish ones said to the wise, ‘Give us some of your oil; our lamps are going out.’

9‘No,’ said the wise ones, ‘or there may not be enough for both us and you. Instead, go to those who sell oil and buy some for yourselves.’

10But while they were on their way to buy it, the bridegroom arrived. Those who were ready went in with him to the wedding banquet, and the door was shut.

11Later the other virgins arrived and said, ‘Lord, lord, open the door for us!’

12But he replied, ‘Truly I tell you, I do not know you.’

13Therefore keep watch, because you do not know the day or the hour.

Your error is plain to see here brother - Can you see it? If not keep looking until it is made clear.

 

[cv5]

Well, another pre-trib fib = Let's look at what the LORD did say:
The Parable of the Ten Virgins

1“At that time the kingdom of heaven will be like ten virgins who took their lamps and went out to meet the bridegroom. 2Five of them were foolish, and five were wise. 3The foolish ones took their lamps but did not take along any extra oil. 4But the wise ones took oil in flasks along with their lamps. 5When the bridegroom was delayed, they all became drowsy and fell asleep.

6At midnight the cry rang out: ‘Here is the bridegroom! Come out to meet him!’

7Then all the virgins woke up and trimmed their lamps. 8The foolish ones said to the wise, ‘Give us some of your oil; our lamps are going out.’

9‘No,’ said the wise ones, ‘or there may not be enough for both us and you. Instead, go to those who sell oil and buy some for yourselves.’

10But while they were on their way to buy it, the bridegroom arrived. Those who were ready went in with him to the wedding banquet, and the door was shut.

11Later the other virgins arrived and said, ‘Lord, lord, open the door for us!’

12But he replied, ‘Truly I tell you, I do not know you.’

13Therefore keep watch, because you do not know the day or the hour.

Your error is plain to see here brother - Can you see it? If not keep looking until it is made clear.

Nice talking to you buddy. But it's time for you to go. Again. To iggy. We will chat later okay?

 

[DavidTree]

Not according to the parable...5 taken 5 left what was the difference?
All were virgins, all sleeping, but only half were taken. Why? What did the ones taken do?
I know that many here have never heard this taught this way but now if you look at the reason paul wrote to the Thessalonians it was to comfort them....why?....because they thought they were left behind. That they missed the coming of Christ.
I suppose they were shocked to get the letter from paul. Surly he would be taken.
The church was going through a terrible time. Paul writes to comfort them.

#1) Matthew 25:1-13 is a parable about ??? fill in here please

#2) Secondly - i am glad you pointed out this: "because they thought they were left behind. That they missed the coming of Christ."

Let me know on #1 and then we will break Eternal Bread together as we nourish ourselves in the Word of Truth.

 

[Absolutely]

#1) Matthew 25:1-13 is a parable about ??? fill in here please

#2) Secondly - i am glad you pointed out this: "because they thought they were left behind. That they missed the coming of Christ."

Let me know on #1 and then we will break Eternal Bread together as we nourish ourselves in the Word of Truth.

It is a vivid unmistakeable picture of the rapture.

Groom gathers the worthy ones.

Saved but carnal ones left behind.

But i know...you need virgins to be something else.as well as where they are taken ( to the fathers house) exactly as he declared at the last supper.


10 And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut.

Oh no...not a groom...bride and wedding.!!!!
That cant be!!!!
It blows postrib rapture doctrine away totally.!!!!
Lets make virgin and oil and lamps mean something else!!!!

And the audacity of the Holy Spirit to frame the setting in the rapture.!!!!
"""13 Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh."""

 

[DavidTree]

It is a vivid unmistakeable picture of the rapture.

Groom gathers the worthy ones.

Saved but carnal ones left behind.

But i know...you need virgins to be something else.as well as where they are taken ( to the fathers house) exactly as he declared at the last supper.


10 And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut.

Oh no...not a groom...bride and wedding.!!!!
That cant be!!!!
It blows postrib rapture doctrine away totally.!!!!
Lets make virgin and oil and lamps mean something else!!!!

And the audacity of the Holy Spirit to frame the setting in the rapture.!!!!
"""13 Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh."""

lol - you pre-tribbers are amusing = 'carnal ones left behind so they can be saved during the GT'

You must be a Catholic - because you established a purgatory for 'carnal christians' who do penitence for a second chance.

 

[DavidTree]

For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. Therefore comfort one another with these words.

For God did not appoint us to wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ, who died for us, that whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with Him. Therefore comfort each other and edify one another, just as you also are doing.

But you, brethren, are not in darkness, so that this Day should overtake you as a thief. You are all sons of light and sons of the day. We are not of the night nor of darkness. Therefore let us not sleep, as others do, but let us watch and be sober. For those who sleep, sleep at night, and those who get drunk are drunk at night. But let us who are of the day be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love, and as a helmet the hope of salvation.

Let us not sleep???
Meet in the air to be with the Lord ????....second coming Jesus goes returns to Israel where it all began when the gathering is complete. The house of his friends.

Whose on First? Whats on Second?? Where is Third???

 

[pottersclay]

Just out of curiosity for other opinions, how plausible is it that you think the oil referenced in the parable of the ten virgins is love for God?

Good question... In this parable the oil is used as a central focus. Without the oil there is no light.
Notice that all had lanterns but five did not have the oil that made the lanterns to work.

The lantern is the word of God.....“For You are my lamp, O Lord; The Lord shall enlighten my darkness. 2sam22:28.
Your word is a lamp to my feet And a light to my path. Pslam 119:105

Now you have the word of God which they all had. All were virgins but what's missing?

We all know that the Holy Spirit descended like a dove on jesus but in what form did it come to the believers on the day of pentecost??

of the Holy Spirit When the Day of Pentecost had fully come, they were all with one accord in one place. And suddenly there came a sound from heaven, as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled the whole house where they were sitting. Then there appeared to them divided tongues, as of fire, and one sat upon each of them.

Now let me guess why you asked about the love for God.
Is it because of what jesus said ? You shall love your God with all your strength, mind,
and soul?
If it is I will share what is wrong here...the word love is a poor translation what the scripture really means is serve.
You shall serve your God with all your strength, mind, and soul.
This coincides with the scripture
If you love me keep my commandments, be he doers and not hearers deceiving your ownselves.
And many more.

 

[pottersclay]

Please clarify "if you don't believe, your not going" - not believing what exactly - pre-trib rapture or the Gospel?

The Holy Spirit leads to all truth . In this parable of what I can tell that the ones who had the oil for the light were the ones that were expecting the rapture.
5 taken 5 left . One taken and one left is not found in revelation. At least I haven found it.
I placed my emphasis on the one left.....left for what??
Jesus said something strange but totally scriptural.
"You believe in God also believe in me who he has sent...selah. There seems to be a promise made that only the son can do out of obedience to the father.

 

[Laura798]

I believe we are unbelievably close to the rapture happen I was even given a rapture dream last week about me and others all on pedestals all of us were in both relief and joy because we knew in our souls the rapture was finally here and couldn't believe it was actually time we were all rotating or orbiting a clock made of clouds counting down I couldn't get a good look at it because we were orbiting it I only know I saw a number four in it though i had no idea if it was days or hours or minutes but the clock kept counting down.

Not to mention if we look at the world and current events through the book of revelation we see all the things being set up anyone can clearly see the stage being set

Dear Blain,

I find your dream interesting; the bible says in the last days "...Your old men will dream dreams." Numbers hold meaning in scripture and numbers thru physics etc have revealed many mysteries of the Universe.

I found this article regarding the number 4--what stood out to me was 4 representing the 'appointed time'. Perhaps it is a reminder to you and those of us reading this to remember --there is an appointed time for Christ's return--that we are to always be ready and in the meantime, be wise in how we live our Christian lives--in the fruit of the spirit and sharing the gospel--I certainly get caught up in my struggles on this earth and often forget what my true purpose is.

"Interestingly, the Hebrew word for 'seasons' in Genesis 1:14 is moed (Strong's Concordance #H4150), which literally translated is "appointed times" (divine appointments) in reference to God's festivals. This is the earliest known allusion to what would later be called the Holy (or Feast) days (periods) of worship, which are seven in number."


https://www.biblestudy.org/bibleref/meaning-of-numbers-in-bible/4.html

 

[DavidTree]

The Holy Spirit leads to all truth . In this parable of what I can tell that the ones who had the oil for the light were the ones that were expecting the rapture.
5 taken 5 left . One taken and one left is not found in revelation. At least I haven found it.
I placed my emphasis on the one left.....left for what??
Jesus said something strange but totally scriptural.
"You believe in God also believe in me who he has sent...selah. There seems to be a promise made that only the son can do out of obedience to the father.

You are in the Truth, in part, and very close to the Whole Truth.

You have missed out on something. It is staring you(us) in the face but the pre-trib rapture has you partially blind to it.

When seeking to understand Scripture any slight error will throw you off Track to reaching the Goal.

The Goal is fully understanding and embracing what the LORD is saying to us.

Stay with - "The Holy Spirit leads to all Truth"

PEACE

 

[ewq1938]

Not according to the parable...5 taken 5 left what was the difference?
All were virgins, all sleeping, but only half were taken. Why? What did the ones taken do?

They took more oil.

I know that many here have never heard this taught this way but now if you look at the reason paul wrote to the Thessalonians it was to comfort them....why?....because they thought they were left behind. That they missed the coming of Christ.
I suppose they were shocked to get the letter from paul. Surly he would be taken.
The church was going through a terrible time. Paul writes to comfort them.

And he told them the second coming could not happen until the Apostasy happened, and the revealing of man of sin...both are related to the great tribulation so a pre-trib rapture is impossible and can not happen according to Paul. Not to mention that Paul placed the rapture after the GT had ended.

1Th 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
1Th 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.(second coming reference)
1Th 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord (second coming reference) shall not prevent them which are asleep.
1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven (second coming reference) with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: (the resurrection of the dead in Christ)
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. (the rapture)

The resurrection only happens at the second coming and the second coming can only happen after the trib has ended, and since the verses tell us the rapture happens AFTER the resurrection and second coming means these verses decisively prove the rapture is post-trib not pre-trib.

It's that simple.

Christ also spoke of the rapture but used the wording of saints being gathered together, and no surprise, placed it after the end of the Great Tribulation.

Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation (great tribulation has ended) of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming (second coming reference) in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect (*another way to speak of the Rapture) from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

*(also see 2nd Thessalonians 2:1 for the same language regarding the Rapture)

Timing of the gathering/rapturing is exactly the same in these two passages. In both we have saved Christians being moved from one place to another and in both that happens after the tribulation has ended and when the second coming has commenced.


A rapture before the second coming and before the resurrection is scripturally impossible and the second coming cannot happen until the tribulation has ended, Mat 24:29-30.

 

[ewq1938]

Good question... In this parable the oil is used as a central focus. Without the oil there is no light.
Notice that all had lanterns but five did not have the oil that made the lanterns to work.

No, those five had oil in their lamps and lamps were lit but at some point went out:

Mat 25:8 And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out.

 

[DavidTree]

They took more oil.





And he told them the second coming could not happen until the Apostasy happened, and the revealing of man of sin...both are related to the great tribulation so a pre-trib rapture is impossible and can not happen according to Paul. Not to mention that Paul placed the rapture after the GT had ended.

1Th 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
1Th 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.(second coming reference)
1Th 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord (second coming reference) shall not prevent them which are asleep.
1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven (second coming reference) with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: (the resurrection of the dead in Christ)
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. (the rapture)

The resurrection only happens at the second coming and the second coming can only happen after the trib has ended, and since the verses tell us the rapture happens AFTER the resurrection and second coming means these verses decisively prove the rapture is post-trib not pre-trib.

It's that simple.

Christ also spoke of the rapture but used the wording of saints being gathered together, and no surprise, placed it after the end of the Great Tribulation.

Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation (great tribulation has ended) of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming (second coming reference) in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect (*another way to speak of the Rapture) from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

*(also see 2nd Thessalonians 2:1 for the same language regarding the Rapture)

Timing of the gathering/rapturing is exactly the same in these two passages. In both we have saved Christians being moved from one place to another and in both that happens after the tribulation has ended and when the second coming has commenced.


A rapture before the second coming and before the resurrection is scripturally impossible and the second coming cannot happen until the tribulation has ended, Mat 24:29-30.

SIMPLICITY of TRUTH = The Path to Understanding = 2 Corinthians 11:1-4 , Mark 10:13-16

Would to God ye could bear with me a little in my folly: and indeed bear with me. For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ. But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

Then they brought little children to Him, that He might touch them; but the disciples rebuked those who brought them. But when Jesus saw it, He was greatly displeased and said to them, “Let the little children come to Me, and do not forbid them; for of such is the kingdom of God. Assuredly, I say to you, whoever does not receive the kingdom of God as a little child will by no means enter it.”
And He took them up in His arms, laid His hands on them, and blessed them.

 

[Absolutely]

lol - you pre-tribbers are amusing = 'carnal ones left behind so they can be saved during the GT'

You must be a Catholic - because you established a purgatory for 'carnal christians' who do penitence for a second chance.

Nobody said " saved during gt".
They are depicted vividly as already born again.

No question about it unless you want to reframe the parable.