The Rapture explained in two minutes

[tanakh]

Tanakh...I though better of you..... You are Jewish are you not? Matthew and Mark are about the same.... But Matthew and Luke are different. Matthew was a Levite (Jewish) and he was speaking to the Jews. Luke was a gentile and was speaking to the Gentiles of the time period.

If you take the first three verses of Matt 24:1-3, Jesus has come out of the Temple (from preaching to the masses) and is evidently walking toward the Mount of Olives (Mt. Olivet) which is across the Kidron Valley.

Matt 24:1-3 (emphasis Added)
And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple. (He has left the building and wound up on Mt. Olivet across the Kidron Valley)
2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down. (Jesus tells them a prophecy that not one stone of the temple will be left unturned)

3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world? (They ask WHEN (timeline), WHAT (signs of thy 2nd coming) and as an extra the END of the WORLD)

Now it is apparent that the destruction of the building (temple) Jesus was talking above would take place in 70 AD. We know that from History.

In verses 4-5, Prior to Jesus telling the answers to His disciples questions, He warned everyone not to be deceived. He did this also in Mark and Luke's version. ".....Take heed that no man deceive you."

In verses 6-8... (emphasis Added)

6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet. (Here he is talking to them to hear and not be troubled. For they (these words of HIS) will come to pass (Happen) but it is not the end.)

7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places. (Down to this part, Matthew and Luke are pretty much the same)

8 All these are the beginning of sorrows. (OOPS! what did he JUST SAY! "All these are the beginning" The Beginning,,The Beginning,,,,, of Sorrow)

Tanakh,,,, I ask you,,,do we agree down to this point on Matthews account?? if it is we can go on if you agree. I would really like to know why you are a preterist.

To begin with I am not Jewish. I have an interest in Jewish origins of the Christian faith and how the NT relies on the Jewish way of understanding scripture. I am not a member of the Jewish roots movement.

The term Preterist has been bandied about on this site recently and it seems obvious to me that some have very little knowledge of what the term means. To start with Preterists are divided into two main groupings.
There are full Preterists who believe that everything regarding the last days happened in the first century. They see the destruction of the Jerusalem temple as being the end of the Old Covenant Age, and references in the NT about living in the last days meant the last days of that age to Paul and the other writers.

The second group are known as partial Preterests. They believe that most of the prophecies have already been fulfilled but believe in the second coming of Christ sometime in the future.
I wouldn't consider myself as a fully committed believer of either group my own belief is that the kingdom of God did first manifest itself in the life and ministry of Jesus and that is represented by the church as a whole. I believe that there are a number of prophecies in scripture with multiple applications so context is important when discerning what is being conveyed by the writer. I believe in one second coming and that the Rapture happens at that coming when we meet him in the air and return to earth with him to defeat the Antichrist at Armageddon.

I used to believe in the Darbyist/Dispensationalist interpretation of Scripture including the Pre Trib rapture until I studied its beliefs which spring from Darby's Exclusive Brethren cult.

 

[GaryA]

I know what I am talking about.

No you don't... You only think you do.

I have nothing against you, Ahwatukee -- or anyone else on CC. But, there are a "few" of you on here who have such an incredibly proud 'attitude' ( which is why you make 'snide' comments like the one in the quote below [ SMH ] - when, you know good-and-well that I have posted scripture before --- what do you expect - the whole Bible quoted in every post? ) --- that makes it difficult to discuss [ certain things ] with you on here, In fact, you guys sometimes don't really "discuss" the topic at all; rather, it seems that you just like to "throw out" condescending remarks...

Some of your remarks notwithstanding, I have always thought you to be quite-the-gentleman. You usually present your thoughts in a "nice" way without shooting people down, etc. ( You have been around popeye too long... haha ) In that, I can say something "nice" about you. You are certainly a lot "nicer" than some...

I think you - as well as the rest of the 'hard-core' pre-tribbers - might should go back and read posts #287 & #295 in this thread.

Ask the Lord to help you to loose the pride and become more humble.

And, then - realize that you have "bought into" an erroneous eschatology.

Wow GaryA! Just "Nope." No scripture to support anything.

The reason that I sometimes just say something like "Nope" is because I see no reason to repeat-post something I have already posted. Or, the person I am saying "Nope" to seems to be only "playing their tape" - and, saying something that I have responded to before over-and-over-and-over...

 

[Ahwatukee]

I have nothing against you, Ahwatukee -- or anyone else on CC. But, there are a "few" of you on here who have such an incredibly proud 'attitude'

Good day GaryA,

First, if I have offended you forgive me. My only concern is contending for the truth. You are mistaking pride with knowledge of scripture. I'm telling you that you are incorrect in your interpretation of the gathering of the church and the timing of the Lord's return to the earth to end the age and are thereby distorting it.

When a person comes to Christ, they have been credited with righteousness and reconciled to God.

The wrath of God that is coming is nothing like the earth has ever experienced.

Because Jesus already took upon himself the wrath that believers deserve, we will not go through God's wrath. For scripture states that believers are not appointed to suffer God's wrath and that because Jesus rescues us from that time of wrath (1 Thes.1:10, 5:9, Rev.3:10). Go and actually read those scriptures that I posted and understand what they are saying.

Paul called the gathering of the church "the blessed hope." After he finished giving a detailed account of the living believers being changed and caught up he said, "for this reason comfort each other with these words." If the church was to go through the time of God's wrath, our being gathered would be no blessed hope, nor could we comfort each other with those words.

According to yours and others interpretation, you would have the church exposed to the same wrath as those who continue to reject Christ. The wrath of God that is coming upon this earth, will be against all who have continued to reject His Son and continue living according to the sinful nature, the prideful, the arrogant, the sexually immoral, the greedy, which is idolatry, murderers, and whatever other acts of the sinful nature there are.

The on-going error is not recognizing the event of the gathering of the church as being a separate event from the Lord's return to the earth to end the age. And two, people do not understand the purpose, severity and magnitude of God's coming wrath.

 

[Dan_473]

'trampled under foot' does mean gentile rule....The Bible does not take into account TOURIST.

The Dome of the Rock is sitting on the 'temple mount' and is under Jordanian (gentile) control. The city itself is under Israeli control.

well... not all Israelis are Torah observant, so imo they would fall into the gentile camp.

as I understand it, pretty much any gentile with enough money is welcome to travel in Jerusalem for either religious or touristy reasons. The Israeli government encourages this, I believe.

 

[popeye]

Hey Popeye: How do you deal with the fact that Jesus taught a post-trib rapture of the church in Matt 24 and Mark 13 and eluded to in Luke 21? Jesus said that after a time of tribulation he would return in the sky, with a trumpet, and angels, and gather the believers off the earth.

I see a gathering post trib as you do.

Not the rapture as depicted in 1 thes 4.

1 thes 4 has the dead raised FIRST.

rev 14 has a gathering DURING the GT.

That would exclude the POSSIBILITY OF A POST TRIB RAPTURE.

Post trib rapture has many ,many,many problems.Too many to possibly overcome.

You guys are hopelessly bogged down on one verse.ONE VERSE.

 

[popeye]

Good day GaryA,

First, if I have offended you forgive me. My only concern is contending for the truth. You are mistaking pride with knowledge of scripture. I'm telling you that you are incorrect in your interpretation of the gathering of the church and the timing of the Lord's return to the earth to end the age and are thereby distorting it.

When a person comes to Christ, they have been credited with righteousness and reconciled to God.

The wrath of God that is coming is nothing like the earth has ever experienced.

Because Jesus already took upon himself the wrath that believers deserve, we will not go through God's wrath. For scripture states that believers are not appointed to suffer God's wrath and that because Jesus rescues us from that time of wrath (1 Thes.1:10, 5:9, Rev.3:10). Go and actually read those scriptures that I posted and understand what they are saying.

Paul called the gathering of the church "the blessed hope." After he finished giving a detailed account of the living believers being changed and caught up he said, "for this reason comfort each other with these words." If the church was to go through the time of God's wrath, our being gathered would be no blessed hope, nor could we comfort each other with those words.

According to yours and others interpretation, you would have the church exposed to the same wrath as those who continue to reject Christ. The wrath of God that is coming upon this earth, will be against all who have continued to reject His Son and continue living according to the sinful nature, the prideful, the arrogant, the sexually immoral, the greedy, which is idolatry, murderers, and whatever other acts of the sinful nature there are.

The on-going error is not recognizing the event of the gathering of the church as being a separate event from the Lord's return to the earth to end the age. And two, people do not understand the purpose, severity and magnitude of God's coming wrath.

You seem to be a gracious member.

I don't think he was talking about you specifically.

Possibly me...LOL

 

[popeye]

Originally Posted by samuel23

Hey Popeye: How do you deal with the fact that Jesus taught a post-trib rapture of the church in Matt 24 and Mark 13 and eluded to in Luke 21? Jesus said that after a time of tribulation he would return in the sky, with a trumpet, and angels, and gather the believers off the earth.

I see a gathering post trib as you do.

Not the rapture as depicted in 1 thes 4.

1 thes 4 has the dead raised FIRST.

rev 14 has a gathering DURING the GT.

That would exclude the POSSIBILITY OF A POST TRIB RAPTURE.

Post trib rapture has many ,many,many problems.Too many to possibly overcome.

You guys are hopelessly bogged down on one verse.ONE VERSE.

Which,BTW,is another problem for you guys.

That dynamic PROVES post trib's erroneous "only one coming/gathering" doctrine is far too problematic for any real traction.

That gathering,by Jesus ,with a sickle,is not the rapture,or the second coming.It is a gathering,a separate gathering, DURING THE GT.

C'mon guys,time to get real!!!


Remember,I told you guys harvest is 4 parts????

 

[popeye]

Originally Posted by samuel23

Hey Popeye: How do you deal with the fact that Jesus taught a post-trib rapture of the church in Matt 24 and Mark 13 and eluded to in Luke 21? Jesus said that after a time of tribulation he would return in the sky, with a trumpet, and angels, and gather the believers off the earth.

Originally Posted by popeye

I see a gathering post trib as you do.

Not the rapture as depicted in 1 thes 4.

1 thes 4 has the dead raised FIRST.

rev 14 has a gathering DURING the GT.

That would exclude the POSSIBILITY OF A POST TRIB RAPTURE.

Post trib rapture has many ,many,many problems.Too many to possibly overcome.

You guys are hopelessly bogged down on one verse.ONE VERSE.

Which,BTW,is another problem for you guys.

That dynamic PROVES post trib's erroneous "only one coming/gathering" doctrine is far too problematic for any real traction.

That gathering,by Jesus ,with a sickle,is not the rapture,or the second coming.It is a gathering,a separate gathering, DURING THE GT.

C'mon guys,time to get real!!!


Remember,I told you guys harvest is 4 parts????

Should I say
Game
set
Match?

Or do they want more???

LOL

 

[samuel23]

Something you pre-trib folks need to recognize, every post-trib believer was FIRST a pre-trib believer, because we were all taught pre-trib as the result of the efforts of John Darby. Therefore it is futile to strive to convince a post-trib person to be pre-trib by using scripture and pre-trib reasoning...BECAUSE WE ALREADY KNOW IT! Post-trib folks know all the arguments for pre-trib because they were pre-trib before they changed to post-trib. You can ask a post-trib person why they changed from pre-trib to post-trib and they will tell you. However pointing out why you believe in pre-trib is futile because we already know why folks believe in pre-trib.

 

[Sully]

In a nutshell, what changed your mind to post?

 

[samuel23]

I came to recognize that when Jesus told the church He would return for them after the tribulation, that Jesus told the church He would return for them after the tribulation. Not some made up story by John Darby, that we should believe him and not our lying eyes.

 

[Johnny_B]

I came to recognize that when Jesus told the church He would return for them after the tribulation, that Jesus told the church He would return for them after the tribulation. Not some made up story by John Darby, that we should believe him and not our lying eyes.

I'm curious as to what Scripture talks about Jesus coming for the Church. The reason I ask is because the three questions in one that the disciples asked Him were, when will these things be (destruction of the Temple), what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age? That is what throws me off, they never asked if He was going to come back for the Church. I always left out the word sign when I was studying it, then one day I noticed it because Jesus says, the sign of my coming in Matthew 24:30. there are a few things that have me not sure of how it all works out. I don't think that 70 A.D. was the fulfillment of the three questions and I don't think anyone does. I've been told that some do, but I think I was misinformed.

I hear you on the post-trib I was a hard core pre-trib, but now I'm not sure there are some words used from the Greek that have caused me to change my view on things. I'm not totally convinced of much, there are somethings that I see as fulfilled and lots that still need to be. I see the Temple destroyed, is that the abomination of desolation I don't think so, because of what Luke add to the Discourse. The disciples asked this “Teacher, when will these things be, and what will be the sign when these things are about to take place?”, "for these are days of vengeance, to fulfill all that is written." and "until the time of the Gentiles be fulfilled". We can't discount these that Luke adds to the Discourse, to fulfill all that is written, that hasn't happened yet, not the times of the Gentiles.

That's why I know that it didn't happen in 70 A.D. The other thing that throws me off, is the Noah and Lot story, again Luke added Lot. Both were safe then the judgement came, it says, "the day", "until the day when Noah entered the Ark", "on the day when Lot went out from Sodom". One went out, the other [FONT=Helvetica Neue, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]entered, but both were saved from the judgement. This discussion was not on Olivet, but it was Jesus discussing the coming of His kingdom in Luke 17.

Anyway, where did Jesus say He was coming for His people?[/FONT]

 

[Ahwatukee]

I'm curious as to what Scripture talks about Jesus coming for the Church. The reason I ask is because the three questions in one that the disciples asked Him were, when will these things be (destruction of the Temple), what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age? That is what throws me off, they never asked if He was going to come back for the Church. I always left out the word sign when I was studying it, then one day I noticed it because Jesus says, the sign of my coming in Matthew 24:30. there are a few things that have me not sure of how it all works out. I don't think that 70 A.D. was the fulfillment of the three questions and I don't think anyone does. I've been told that some do, but I think I was misinformed.

I hear you on the post-trib I was a hard core pre-trib, but now I'm not sure there are some words used from the Greek that have caused me to change my view on things. I'm not totally convinced of much, there are somethings that I see as fulfilled and lots that still need to be. I see the Temple destroyed, is that the abomination of desolation I don't think so, because of what Luke add to the Discourse. The disciples asked this “Teacher, when will these things be, and what will be the sign when these things are about to take place?”, "for these are days of vengeance, to fulfill all that is written." and "until the time of the Gentiles be fulfilled". We can't discount these that Luke adds to the Discourse, to fulfill all that is written, that hasn't happened yet, not the times of the Gentiles.

That's why I know that it didn't happen in 70 A.D. The other thing that throws me off, is the Noah and Lot story, again Luke added Lot. Both were safe then the judgement came, it says, "the day", "until the day when Noah entered the Ark", "on the day when Lot went out from Sodom". One went out, the other entered, but both were saved from the judgement. This discussion was not on Olivet, but it was Jesus discussing the coming of His kingdom in Luke 17.

Anyway, where did Jesus say He was coming for His people?

Hello Johnny_B,

Jesus did not say that he was coming to gather the church as Samuel23 suggests. In fact, Jesus did say that he would keep believers in the church out of the time of trial that is coming upon the whole earth (Rev.3:10)

As for whene Jesus said he was coming for his people, this promise can be found in John 14:1-3:

"In My Father’s house are many rooms. If it were not so, would I have told you that I am going there to prepare a place for you? And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and welcome you into My presence, so that you also may be where I am."

So, Jesus told his disciples and therefore all believers, that he was going to His Father's house to prepare rooms for us and that he was going to come back to get us and take us back to the Father's house so that we could be where he is. 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 is a detailed account of that event of when he returns, which is what all true believers have been longing for, the Lord's appearing to gather us. It is our blessed hope. If the church were to go through the time of God's wrath and then be gathered afterwards, then it would be no blessed hope.

From the time that Jesus quote Daniel in Matt.24:15 regarding the setting up of the abomination in the temple, until the time it was destroyed in 70 AD, none of the events of Dan.9:27 have been fulfilled and is therefore yet still to be fulfilled. That last seven years sets the stage for the fulfillment of the last seven years of the seventy sevens that were decreed upon Israel and Jerusalem, which will begin with the ruler, that antichrist, when he establishes his seven year covenant with Israel which will allow them to build their temple and resume making offerings and sacrifices. God is going to pick up right where He left off with Israel complete with temple and sacrifices in fulfillment of that last seven years.

At the same time, he is going to deal with the entire world, of which the majority of the population of the world will be decimated and all human government dismantled. (Dan.2:31-45)

 

[MattTooFor]

In fact, Jesus did say that he would keep believers in the church out of the time of trial that is coming upon the whole earth (Rev.3:10)

Unfortunately, that is a point-blank falsehood. Jesus specifically told the believers (Peter, James and John) that they WOULD go through "great tribulation". Whatever meaning someone might argue for Rev. 3: 10...it CANNOT be something that contradicts Jesus' words to Peter, James and John. There are no contradictions in the Bible.

[FONT=&quot]If the church were to go through the time of God's wrath and then be gathered afterwards, then it would be no blessed hope. [/FONT]

As has been explained to you many times...and supported by point-blank scripture...the believers are gathered at the time of the great cosmic signs...which, themselves, in turn signal the onset of God's wrath. God's people are removed before the time of God's wrath but NOT before the time of great tribulation, which is essentially the time of the Devil's wrath and the world's wrath.

Most American Christians have a fantasy-based expectation of avoiding serious persecution...and Christians all around the world just shake their heads. God's people have NEVER had an exemption from persecution and tribulation. Jesus said: "In this world you shall have tribulation but be of good cheer for I have overcome the world".

 

[MattTooFor]

I'm curious as to what Scripture talks about Jesus coming for the Church.

Jesus told the believers (Peter, James and John) that they would be gathered into the arms of Jesus at the time of the great "Gathering". It's stated right there in the Olivet Discourse.

But you seem to be specifically inquiring about the "church". There is nothing unique or extra-special about the word "ekklesia". It's just one of many dozens of words used to refer to believers. Dispensationalists and PreTribbers try to give it some sort of "extra" significance.

It is actually quite interesting and disturbing how dubious 'translators' in olden times decided to take this Greek word "ekklesia" and translate it into this completely and utterly unrelated English word "church". Why didn't they simply translate it correctly into "the called out ones" (the literal translation)? Or some Anglicized version of "ekklesia". Very, very dubious, indeed.

There HAS been a lot of intrigue surrounding the various translations of the Bible. There is significant evidence that the word "church" comes from occult origins. It relates back to the word "circle"...which, in the context of religious culture, is a satanic concept. Satanists do every thing in 'circles' in their rituals.

Think about it -- what IS this strange word "church"? It doesn't relate to "ekklesia". It doesn't relate to the idea of "the called out ones".

 

[MattTooFor]

Or do they want more???

By "they" do you mean me and Samual23 and Jesus and Peter, James and John? Bring it on.

As long as I'm in agreement with Jesus who told the believers the first event to look for was the Abomination of Desolation and not some mythical "PreTrib" rapture...I don't mind disagreeing with a "Popeye" all day long.

Hmm. Who to believe -- "Popeye" or the Lord of Glory, and the King of Kings? Decisions, decisions. Jesus' "heads-up" regarding the Abomination of Desolation...or Popeye's countering, contradicting claim that we should all just sit around waiting to be "carried of to heaven on flowery beds of ease"?

Boy, that's a tough one. (Not.)

 

[MattTooFor]

But anyway,why is there no mention of gentile Christians sealed against the locusts/scorpions ?
The 144k are Christians,and there was a need for an "extra forehead seal"

Further,the locust/scorpions are INSTRUCTED to not sting ONLY those sealed.

Hhhmmmmmmm,obviously there is no church ON EARTH during the GT.

That's right -- there are no believers on earth during the time of God's wrath. They were all removed from earth way back at the time of the 6th and 7th seals in Rev. 6...at the time of these great cosmic signs. You need to cross-reference that with Matthew 24...where it states that all the believers are 'gathered' at (once again) the time of the great cosmic signs.

God's wrath, according to Joel 2:31, does not begin until AFTER the appearance of these cosmic signs. It's all there in the Bible in black and white.

Joel 2:31 -- "The sun will be turned into darkness and the moon into blood BEFORE the great and awesome day of the Lord comes."

 

[MattTooFor]

[TABLE]
[TR]
[TD] 457 B.C.[/TD]
[TD]The decree went forth to rebuild the city.[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD] 445 B.C.[/TD]
[TD]The wall of the city is built in 52 days.[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD] 405 B.C.[/TD]
[TD]The rebuilding of the city ends 52 years after the decree went forth.[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD] 3 B.C.[/TD]
[TD]Christ is born in Bethlehem.[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]( Remember that there is no year 0. )[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD] 30 A.D.[/TD]
[TD]Christ is crucified 62 x 7 = 434 years after the rebuilding of the city ends.[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]( NOT 434 years after the end of the 7th week - look carefully at Daniel 9:25-26 )[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD] 34 A.D.[/TD]
[TD]Daniel's 70 weeks end 70 x 7 = 490 years after the decree went forth. ( Continued next row. )[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD] 34 A.D.[/TD]
[TD]'Times of the Jews' ends; 'Times of the Gentiles' begins[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD] 70 A.D.[/TD]
[TD]Abomination Of Desolation[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD] 70 A.D.[/TD]
[TD]Great Tribulation begins[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD] Dark Ages[/TD]
[TD]Christian Martyrs ( Revelation 6:9 - "souls under the altar" )[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]past - present - future[/TD]
[TD]Christian Martyrs ( Revelation 6:11 - "that should be killed as they were"; Includes next row. )[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD] future[/TD]
[TD]Christian Martyrs ( Revelation 20:4 - beheaded for not worshipping the beast; huge scale murder )[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD] future[/TD]
[TD]Great Tribulation ends - Two Witnesses begin their testimony[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD] future[/TD]
[TD]Trumpet 1[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD] future[/TD]
[TD]Trumpet 2[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD] future[/TD]
[TD]Trumpet 3[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD] future[/TD]
[TD]Trumpet 4[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD] future[/TD]
[TD]Trumpet 5 - bottomless pit opened[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD] future[/TD]
[TD]Trumpet 6[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD] future[/TD]
[TD]Witnesses Killed by "the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit" ( Revelation 11:7 )[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD] future[/TD]
[TD]Witnesses Raised ( Revelation 11:11 )[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD] future[/TD]
[TD]Heaven / Temple Opened ( Matthew 24:30; Revelation 11:19; Revelation 15:5; Revelation 19:11 )[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD] future[/TD]
[TD]JESUS ( Matthew 24:30 / Mark 13:26 / Luke 21:27; 1 Thessalonians 4:16; Revelation 14:14; Revelation 19:11-16 )[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD] future[/TD]
[TD]Trumpet 7 ( Matthew 24:31/ Mark 13:27; 1 Thessalonians 4:16; Revelation 11:15 )[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD] future[/TD]
[TD]Resurrection & Rapture ( Matthew 24:31 / Mark 13:27; 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17; Revelation 14:16 )[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD] future[/TD]
[TD]Pre-Wrath ( Revelation 14:19; Revelation 15:6-8; Revelation 19:15-19 )[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD] future[/TD]
[TD]Vial 1[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD] future[/TD]
[TD]Vial 2[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD] future[/TD]
[TD]Vial 3[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD] future[/TD]
[TD]Vial 4[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD] future[/TD]
[TD]Vial 5[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD] future[/TD]
[TD]Vial 6[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD] future[/TD]
[TD]Armageddon ( Isaiah 13:15-18; Zechariah 12:2,9-11; 14:1-2; Revelation 16:13-14,16 )[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD] future[/TD]
[TD]Vial 7[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD] future[/TD]
[TD]Marriage Supper ( Revelation 19:21 )[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]


The "cosmic signs" of Matthew 24:29 are literally part of the trumpet 'events' - which are literally brought about by the Two Witnesses.

Does it occur to you that there might be a problem...since you are the only person on earth who has this (pardon my French) wildly wacky "Rube Goldberg"-style prophecy doctrine? Think about it -- you are, in effect, claiming to be the only person on the planet who has the correct views on Bible prophecy. Only one person understands the Bible -- you. (?)

 

[MattTooFor]

Show me where you got that ( I am pretty sure I know where, but I want you to tell me. ), and I will tell you why your interpretation of it ( that you were taught ) is incorrect.

I already told you -- Rev. 11:3. The "holy city is tread under foot for 42 months". And the two witnesses "prophesy" for 1260 days (42 months).

 

[MattTooFor]

TRUTH: Jesus was crucified in the middle of the 70th week of Daniel.

TRUTH: The 70th week of Daniel ended ~3.5 years after His resurrection.

TRUTH: The end of the 70th week of Daniel marked the end of the 'times of the Jews' ( which is exactly-and-precisely what Daniel 9:24-27 is all about ) and the beginning of the 'times of the Gentiles'.

TRUTH: The 70 weeks of Daniel - "a single span of 490 consecutive unbroken years with no gaps" - are 100% fulfilled.

I just have to say...identically to Ahwatukee...there is something missing in your reasoning process...when you think you're 'licensed' to simply DECLARE your various conclusions.

No one in the body of Christ is given some sort of mysterious 'perch' from which they can then "instruct" other folks what to believe. I am honestly baffled as to where Ahawtukee --and now you, apparently-- have gone astray from a sound thinking.

The Bible instructs that we are ALL responsible to "give a reason" (1Peter 3:15) for the beliefs we hold to. Not just "announce" them in some sort of weirdly arrogant "blaring" fashion. No one is above the Scriptures. No one is above 1 Peter 3:15.

This particular post of yours is just one gigantic Ahwatuckee-style "announcement" festival. You guys need to give us all a break. Good grief. Usually, you at least make some effort at reasoning...flawed though it usually is...in my lowly opinion.