The Rapture
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It is hard to see how flesh Israel is really in the picture after AD 73.
But when the Jews kick up and say "We are God's chosen People" (when I doubt even 30% of them are actual sons of Judah), we the Church have to show them mercy.....
I guess we just have to forgive them for being stuck in a pathological rut; try not to make too big a thing of it.
But when the Jews kick up and say "We are God's chosen People" (when I doubt even 30% of them are actual sons of Judah), we the Church have to show them mercy.....
I guess we just have to forgive them for being stuck in a pathological rut; try not to make too big a thing of it.
First let me say that I could be wrong about the 1000 year reign, I still have a lot of dispensational programming that could be affecting my view. But the way I see it, Revelation 20:6 is literal, I don't see how there could be a spiritual version of that. Maybe you can show me how it's spiritual.
Revelation 20:6 KJV
Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
I believe the "third temple" is the body of Christ. There's a place in Ezekiel that says something like - the temple will be unlike any other temple ever seen on earth, or something to that effect meaning the building materials are not of this world.
Edit: And I don't see that Christ has returned the 2nd time.
Revelation 20:6 KJV
Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
I believe the "third temple" is the body of Christ. There's a place in Ezekiel that says something like - the temple will be unlike any other temple ever seen on earth, or something to that effect meaning the building materials are not of this world.
Edit: And I don't see that Christ has returned the 2nd time.
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AHW,
I agree to the extent that Christ is the "rock" which smashes the statue. However, to say it is the end of Human government is foolish. It is the end of those governments with Rome being divided. You need to continue reading in the Dan 2:
44 And in the days of these kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom which shall never be destroyed.
In the days of those Roman kings, God will set up a kingdom. So, this happened in the first century. See what else? This kingdom will never be destroyed. It doesn't say it ends after 1,000 years, yet you say it does. Therefore, the kingdom is spiritual and not earthly because only spiritual is everlasting and not corrupt.
I'm going to have to go ahead and disagree with you on that one too. Where does it say the "great tribulation saints" were beheaded during the last 3.5 years? It doesn't even say they are from the "great tribulation." It says they "come out of great tribulation" meaning much suffering.
This happened ~ 70 AD and Josephus records it. There were over 650,000 Jews killed in Jerusalem alone. There were so many bodies that most went unburied and were left to the scavengers.
But not the same body He entered into heaven with. Paul clearly saw Him as a bright light, as "bright as the sun" I believe he said. He destroys the Man of Sin, "with the brightness of His coming." He returns the same way He entered heaven, not the same way He left earth. Rev 18 is clear that His glory illuminates the earth. Please reconsider.
I agree to the extent that Christ is the "rock" which smashes the statue. However, to say it is the end of Human government is foolish. It is the end of those governments with Rome being divided. You need to continue reading in the Dan 2:
44 And in the days of these kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom which shall never be destroyed.
In the days of those Roman kings, God will set up a kingdom. So, this happened in the first century. See what else? This kingdom will never be destroyed. It doesn't say it ends after 1,000 years, yet you say it does. Therefore, the kingdom is spiritual and not earthly because only spiritual is everlasting and not corrupt.
I'm going to have to go ahead and disagree with you on that one too. Where does it say the "great tribulation saints" were beheaded during the last 3.5 years? It doesn't even say they are from the "great tribulation." It says they "come out of great tribulation" meaning much suffering.
This happened ~ 70 AD and Josephus records it. There were over 650,000 Jews killed in Jerusalem alone. There were so many bodies that most went unburied and were left to the scavengers.
But not the same body He entered into heaven with. Paul clearly saw Him as a bright light, as "bright as the sun" I believe he said. He destroys the Man of Sin, "with the brightness of His coming." He returns the same way He entered heaven, not the same way He left earth. Rev 18 is clear that His glory illuminates the earth. Please reconsider.
Oh no not 70A.D. again Lord have mercy. This man just said Revelation 19 occured in 70A.D.?
So marriage supper of the Lamb already happened and Jesus came in the clouds on a white horse with His saints and ruled the nations with an iron rod?
This is absurd. What planet am I on? Listen, until this nightmare is over I'll go eat some ice cream because today I've truly heard it all, and I didn't even need to reach old age before I done heard it. Toodels
So marriage supper of the Lamb already happened and Jesus came in the clouds on a white horse with His saints and ruled the nations with an iron rod?
This is absurd. What planet am I on? Listen, until this nightmare is over I'll go eat some ice cream because today I've truly heard it all, and I didn't even need to reach old age before I done heard it. Toodels
Can I add something? Well, I'm gonna anyway. Do you know where the 70 x 7 comes from?
21 Then Peter came to Him and said, “Lord, how often shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? Up to seven times?”
22 Jesus said to him, “I do not say to you, up to seven times, but up to seventy times seven.
In Dan 9, while in captivity in Babylon, Daniel is praying and making supplication to God to forgive and restore His people. They were given into Babylon's hand for 70 years for not honoring the "allowing the Land to rest" rule every 7 years. God relents and tells Daniel through an angel that He has decreed (determined) that they will have the 70 x 7 years to "get their act right." But He already knew they wouldn't and even said that they would kill Messiah after the 69 weeks half way into the 70th week.
There is no more forgiveness after 70 x 7 when the same sin patterns continue, thus it was time for judgment. But as Peter tells us, God is long suffering not wishing that any should perish so He gives them another 40 years for His disciples and church in Jerusalem to teach them about Jesus. And, they were sent into the known world where the rest of Israel had been scattered to preach the Gospel. Those who accepted Christ avoided the judgment. Those that didn't returned to Jerusalem for Passover and were trapped inside when Titus surrounded the city. Thus all the rotten eggs returned to the basket for consummation by fire, just as Dan 9:27 tells us.
21 Then Peter came to Him and said, “Lord, how often shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? Up to seven times?”
22 Jesus said to him, “I do not say to you, up to seven times, but up to seventy times seven.
In Dan 9, while in captivity in Babylon, Daniel is praying and making supplication to God to forgive and restore His people. They were given into Babylon's hand for 70 years for not honoring the "allowing the Land to rest" rule every 7 years. God relents and tells Daniel through an angel that He has decreed (determined) that they will have the 70 x 7 years to "get their act right." But He already knew they wouldn't and even said that they would kill Messiah after the 69 weeks half way into the 70th week.
There is no more forgiveness after 70 x 7 when the same sin patterns continue, thus it was time for judgment. But as Peter tells us, God is long suffering not wishing that any should perish so He gives them another 40 years for His disciples and church in Jerusalem to teach them about Jesus. And, they were sent into the known world where the rest of Israel had been scattered to preach the Gospel. Those who accepted Christ avoided the judgment. Those that didn't returned to Jerusalem for Passover and were trapped inside when Titus surrounded the city. Thus all the rotten eggs returned to the basket for consummation by fire, just as Dan 9:27 tells us.
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That is correct!! Revelation is almost entirely about the end of the Jewish nation.
The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show His servants—things which must shortly take place.
In what universe is 2,000 years "shortly" for you? Notice it says MUST, not MAYBE. MUST SHORTLY TAKE PLACE.
and keep those things which are written in it; for the time is near.
Is 2,000 years near???
Thus you also have those who hold the doctrine of the Nicolaitans, which thing I hate. Repent, or else I will come to you quickly and will fight against them with the sword of My mouth.
Is 2,000 years "coming quickly" in your mind? Notice the sword of (His) mouth just like in Rev 19. Who did He say He would fight against? The Nicolaitans??? Huh, right. Gonna be hard to fight with them 2,000 years later since they disappeared after the 1st century!!!!
The Babylon of Rev is apostate Israel. Rev 18 starts this way:
After these things I saw another angel coming down from heaven, having great authority, and the earth was illuminated with his glory. 2 And he cried mightily with a loud voice, saying, “Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen...
There is only one "angel" who can illuminate the earth with His glory. "WAS" not WILL BE. Care to take a guess? This exactly describes what happened to Jerusalem:
8 Therefore her plagues will come in one day—death and mourning and famine. And she will be utterly burned with fire, for strong is the Lord God who judges her.
There are only two peoples who mourn this way, Muslims and Jews. I used to think it was the Muslims, but not anymore.
19 “They threw dust on their heads and cried out, weeping and wailing, and saying, ‘Alas, alas, that great city, in which all who had ships on the sea became rich by her wealth! For in one hour she is made desolate.’
Now pay close attention. Maybe you will learn something and not spend your whole life believing this nonsense you've been taught.
Then a mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone and threw it into the sea, saying, “Thus with violence the great city Babylon shall be thrown down.
Compare the above to Zec 12. You have to same imagery.
3 And it shall happen in that day that I will make Jerusalem a very heavy stone for all peoples; all who would heave it away will surely be cut in pieces, though all nations of the earth are gathered against it.
Jerusalem was just identified as the heavy stone i.e. millstone of Rev 18.
Christianity spread like wildfire. It became the official religion of Rome under Constantine in the 4th century. It has been the dominant religion in the world ever since. "Ruling with a rod of iron" is not literal but it does have meaning. Take a moment to consider how God has ALWAYS reward those nations who are His and cursed the nations who reject Him. What nations have been blessed the most? What nations are the poorest? What religions do each follow?
The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show His servants—things which must shortly take place.
In what universe is 2,000 years "shortly" for you? Notice it says MUST, not MAYBE. MUST SHORTLY TAKE PLACE.
and keep those things which are written in it; for the time is near.
Is 2,000 years near???
Thus you also have those who hold the doctrine of the Nicolaitans, which thing I hate. Repent, or else I will come to you quickly and will fight against them with the sword of My mouth.
Is 2,000 years "coming quickly" in your mind? Notice the sword of (His) mouth just like in Rev 19. Who did He say He would fight against? The Nicolaitans??? Huh, right. Gonna be hard to fight with them 2,000 years later since they disappeared after the 1st century!!!!
The Babylon of Rev is apostate Israel. Rev 18 starts this way:
After these things I saw another angel coming down from heaven, having great authority, and the earth was illuminated with his glory. 2 And he cried mightily with a loud voice, saying, “Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen...
There is only one "angel" who can illuminate the earth with His glory. "WAS" not WILL BE. Care to take a guess? This exactly describes what happened to Jerusalem:
8 Therefore her plagues will come in one day—death and mourning and famine. And she will be utterly burned with fire, for strong is the Lord God who judges her.
There are only two peoples who mourn this way, Muslims and Jews. I used to think it was the Muslims, but not anymore.
19 “They threw dust on their heads and cried out, weeping and wailing, and saying, ‘Alas, alas, that great city, in which all who had ships on the sea became rich by her wealth! For in one hour she is made desolate.’
Now pay close attention. Maybe you will learn something and not spend your whole life believing this nonsense you've been taught.
Then a mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone and threw it into the sea, saying, “Thus with violence the great city Babylon shall be thrown down.
Compare the above to Zec 12. You have to same imagery.
3 And it shall happen in that day that I will make Jerusalem a very heavy stone for all peoples; all who would heave it away will surely be cut in pieces, though all nations of the earth are gathered against it.
Jerusalem was just identified as the heavy stone i.e. millstone of Rev 18.
Christianity spread like wildfire. It became the official religion of Rome under Constantine in the 4th century. It has been the dominant religion in the world ever since. "Ruling with a rod of iron" is not literal but it does have meaning. Take a moment to consider how God has ALWAYS reward those nations who are His and cursed the nations who reject Him. What nations have been blessed the most? What nations are the poorest? What religions do each follow?
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Revelation is about the end of the age for all the nations.
The seals, trumpets and bowl judgments, which make up the majority of Revelation, affects the entire earth.
Of course you would say that, because it is detrimental to your position, therefore you spiritualize it. Ruling with a rod of iron, means that Jesus will rule with a firm hand, shepherding the nations.
The words "the time is near, I will come quickly, must soon take place" are all statements of imminency, having no set date or time. These saying are related to Jesus coming like a thief. Regarding "the day of the Lord," the OT prophets used the same words that the apostles used for the same event, which is yet to take place.
All that you to do with these teachings, is to continue to distort the meaning of the word of God with your spiritualization
Luke: 4. 18. The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised, 19. To preach the acceptable year of the Lord. 20. And he closed the book, and he gave it again to the minister, and sat down. And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on him. 21. And he began to say unto them, This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears. - Bible Offline
Is the time period between the verses above and the triumphant entry known?
Is the time period between the verses above and the triumphant entry known?
Don't you ever get tired of being shown as one who is spreading a FALSE DOCTRINE, simply because you DID NOT BOTHER TO READ THE ENTIRE CONTEXT. THE CONTEXT is NOT talking about any Gentile BELIEVERS; IT IS ONLY TALKING ABOUT BONIFIED, GENUINE, BLOODLINE ISRAELITE BELIEVERS.
Romans 9:6-11 (ASV)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] But it is not as though the word of God hath come to nought. For they are not all Israel, that are of Israel:
[SUP]7 [/SUP] neither, because they are Abraham's seed, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
[SUP]8 [/SUP] That is, it is not the children of the flesh that are children of God; but the children of the promise are reckoned for a seed.
[SUP]9 [/SUP] For this is a word of promise, According to this season will I come, and Sarah shall have a son.
[SUP]10 [/SUP] And not only so; but Rebecca also having conceived by one, even by our father Isaac--
[SUP]11 [/SUP] for the children being not yet born, neither having done anything good or bad, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth,
SIMPLY what HE is saying is: Having the right Bloodline is NOT ENOUGH to be an HEIR of the promise to INHERIT the land of Canaan forever. THOSE Israelites must also have the FAITH OF ABRAHAM, THEN AND ONLY THEN ARE THEY TRULY CONSIDERED TO BE A TRUE ISRAELITES. THERE IS NOT ONE HINT IN THOSE VERSES ABOVE REFERRING TO BE GENTILE BELIEVERS.
Romans 9:6-8 (NCV)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] It is not that God failed to keep his promise to them. But only some of the people of Israel are truly God’s people,
[SUP]7 [/SUP] and only some of Abraham’s descendants are true children of Abraham. But God said to Abraham: “The descendants I promised you will be from Isaac.“
[SUP]8 [/SUP] This means that not all of Abraham’s descendants are God’s true children. Abraham’s true children are those who become God’s children because of the promise God made to Abraham.
[NO GENTILE BELIEVERS MENTIONED THERE.]
Exodus 6:1-8 (ASV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] And Jehovah said unto Moses, Now shalt thou see what I will do to Pharaoh: for by a strong hand shall he let them go, and by a strong hand shall he drive them out of his land.
[SUP]2 [/SUP] And God spake unto Moses, and said unto him, I am Jehovah:
[SUP]3 [/SUP] and I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, as God Almighty; but by my name Jehovah I was not known to them.
[SUP]4 [/SUP] And I have also established my covenant with them, to give them the land of Canaan, the land of their sojournings, wherein they sojourned.
[SUP]5 [/SUP] And moreover I have heard the groaning of the children of Israel, whom the Egyptians keep in bondage; and I have remembered my covenant.
[SUP]6 [/SUP] Wherefore say unto the children of Israel, I am Jehovah, and I will bring you out from under the burdens of the Egyptians, and I will rid you out of their bondage, and I will redeem you with an outstretched arm, and with great judgments:
[SUP]7 [/SUP] and I will take you to me for a people, and I will be to you a God; and ye shall know that I am Jehovah your God, who bringeth you out from under the burdens of the Egyptians.
[SUP]8 [/SUP] And I will bring you in unto the land which I sware to give to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob; and I will give it you for a heritage: I am Jehovah.
[NO GENTILE BELIEVERS MENTIONED THERE.]
Genuine true Believers who are Israelites are those who GOD CALLS ISRAEL,
HIS CHOSEN PEOPLE (NATION).
What then is our relationship with HIM?
WE ARE HIS CHOSEN ADOPTED SONS.
And you sit there and COVET the relationship of Genuine Jewish Believers.
ARE YOU THAT UNGRATEFUL, THAT YOU HAVE TO COVET WHAT WAS PROMISED TO OTHERS, TOO?
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Once an unbelieving Jew turns to Christ they are in the same body of Christ as gentiles.
VCO as for adopted sons I dunno, i'll take it but I consider all who are in Christ to be grafted in to the tree as full heirs not 2nd class citizens but fellow citizens like Paul said. (If thats what you meant, not arguing here)
Btw all of yall allegory folks will see literal prophecy play out real quick since Israel is back:
https://www.breakingisraelnews.com/...king-temple-mount-photos/#39Dh2ILeIRsRFrEq.97
The temple is coming back its just around the corner. Then its just a matter of time BEFORE WE OUTTA HERE.
Lets go come soon Lord.
ANd PlainWord you do know everybody and their momma agrees Revelation was written ~90-98A.D. right? Even the amillennial catholics agree with it!
VCO as for adopted sons I dunno, i'll take it but I consider all who are in Christ to be grafted in to the tree as full heirs not 2nd class citizens but fellow citizens like Paul said. (If thats what you meant, not arguing here)
Btw all of yall allegory folks will see literal prophecy play out real quick since Israel is back:
https://www.breakingisraelnews.com/...king-temple-mount-photos/#39Dh2ILeIRsRFrEq.97
The temple is coming back its just around the corner. Then its just a matter of time BEFORE WE OUTTA HERE.
Lets go come soon Lord.
ANd PlainWord you do know everybody and their momma agrees Revelation was written ~90-98A.D. right? Even the amillennial catholics agree with it!
AMEN, YOU GOT IT RIGHT!
Worldly use of the word Israelite means one who is of bloodline that goes back to the Nation Israel, and possibly to Israel himself.
GOD's definition of ISRAEL, ONLY one who is of ISRAEL, and has the Faith of Abraham, the only way any human being is SAVED, no matter what bloodline or NATION they are from.
No Gentile ever becomes a spiritual Israelite, but he or she does become one spiritually fathered by Abraham by having the Faith of Abraham. What many forget is ABRAHAM was not an ISRAELITE. Abraham was from UR of the Chaldees {Kuwait}. So I guess, if you want to call yourself a spiritual Chaldean because you have the FAITH of Abraham, I guess you can; but never a spiritual Israelite, without having the bloodline TOO.
Genesis 17:4-5 (HCSB)
[SUP]4 [/SUP] “As for Me, My covenant is with you: you will become the father of many nations.
[SUP]5 [/SUP] Your name will no longer be Abram, but your name will be Abraham, for I will make you the father of many nations.
Romans 4:2-3 (HCSB)
[SUP]2 [/SUP] If Abraham was justified by works, he has something to brag about—but not before God.
[SUP]3 [/SUP] For what does the Scripture say? Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him for righteousness.
Ephesians 2:4-9 (HCSB)
[SUP]4 [/SUP] But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love that He had for us,
[SUP]5 [/SUP] made us alive with the Messiah even though we were dead in trespasses. You are saved by grace!
[SUP]6 [/SUP] Together with Christ Jesus He also raised us up and seated us in the heavens,
[SUP]7 [/SUP] so that in the coming ages He might display the immeasurable riches of His grace through ⌊His⌋ kindness to us in Christ Jesus.
[SUP]8 [/SUP] For you are saved by grace through faith, and this is not from yourselves; it is God’s gift—
[SUP]9 [/SUP] not from works, so that no one can boast.
Worldly use of the word Israelite means one who is of bloodline that goes back to the Nation Israel, and possibly to Israel himself.
GOD's definition of ISRAEL, ONLY one who is of ISRAEL, and has the Faith of Abraham, the only way any human being is SAVED, no matter what bloodline or NATION they are from.
No Gentile ever becomes a spiritual Israelite, but he or she does become one spiritually fathered by Abraham by having the Faith of Abraham. What many forget is ABRAHAM was not an ISRAELITE. Abraham was from UR of the Chaldees {Kuwait}. So I guess, if you want to call yourself a spiritual Chaldean because you have the FAITH of Abraham, I guess you can; but never a spiritual Israelite, without having the bloodline TOO.
Genesis 17:4-5 (HCSB)
[SUP]4 [/SUP] “As for Me, My covenant is with you: you will become the father of many nations.
[SUP]5 [/SUP] Your name will no longer be Abram, but your name will be Abraham, for I will make you the father of many nations.
Romans 4:2-3 (HCSB)
[SUP]2 [/SUP] If Abraham was justified by works, he has something to brag about—but not before God.
[SUP]3 [/SUP] For what does the Scripture say? Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him for righteousness.
Ephesians 2:4-9 (HCSB)
[SUP]4 [/SUP] But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love that He had for us,
[SUP]5 [/SUP] made us alive with the Messiah even though we were dead in trespasses. You are saved by grace!
[SUP]6 [/SUP] Together with Christ Jesus He also raised us up and seated us in the heavens,
[SUP]7 [/SUP] so that in the coming ages He might display the immeasurable riches of His grace through ⌊His⌋ kindness to us in Christ Jesus.
[SUP]8 [/SUP] For you are saved by grace through faith, and this is not from yourselves; it is God’s gift—
[SUP]9 [/SUP] not from works, so that no one can boast.
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