The Rapture

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PlainWord

Senior Member
Jun 11, 2013
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They didn't DIE when Christ died, their ALREADY DEAD (some for thousands of years) bodies lie in the streets.

How did they get out of the graves?

Jeremiah 8:1 KJV
At that time, saith the Lord , they shall bring out the bones of the kings of Judah, and the bones of his princes, and the bones of the priests, and the bones of the prophets, and the bones of the inhabitants of Jerusalem, out of their graves:
I place the two witnesses in Jerusalem warning them prior to it's destruction. Regardless see the below commentary on Jer 8. Just a random one I found.

https://www.studylight.org/commentaries/bcc/jeremiah-8.html
 
Apr 23, 2017
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There was no second coming of Christ in AD 70 period... you're making that up! Show me scripture where it says the Lord returned in AD70... concrete stuff like this:

1 Corinthians 15:4 KJV
And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

Christ died, left the earth for hell, then he RETURNED.
he cant because bible isnt written anymore..................... also Jesus did not have second coming yet ive been sleeping on this thread for real after i know the truth......... yes
 
Nov 23, 2013
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PlainWord

Senior Member
Jun 11, 2013
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There was no second coming of Christ in AD 70 period... you're making that up! Show me scripture where it says the Lord returned in AD70... concrete stuff like this:

1 Corinthians 15:4 KJV
And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

Christ died, left the earth for hell, then he RETURNED.
The timing is clear if you accept the Great Tribulation in Mat 24 as the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD. You do, right? All the early church fathers do.

The passage says, "...Immediately AFTER the tribulation of those days." It then goes on to say, "this generation will by no means pass away till all these things take place."

I am the only one on here who accepts the clear teaching that Christ returns IMMEDIATELY AFTER THE TRIBULATION OF 70 AD and that THIS SAME GENERATION WILL SEE IT. All of the rest of you disregard the clearest way to read this and move it to the end of the planet Earth. Some of you place it before some future global great trib, others place it after. But all of you disregard Mat 24 and Mat 16 where Jesus plainly teaches when He will return.

 
Nov 23, 2013
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he cant because bible isnt written anymore..................... also Jesus did not have second coming yet ive been sleeping on this thread for real after i know the truth......... yes
I have no idea what you just said lol.
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
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So we're basing our theology not on scripture but on "this sounds good"

You noticed, that is what he does. Now where have I heard about that before? Hmmmmmmm, OH YEAH:


Colossians 2:4 (NIV)
[SUP]4 [/SUP] I tell you this so that no one may deceive you by fine-sounding arguments.
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
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Yes Jerusalem is the whore and yes Jerusalem was probably destroyed by fire but that was the DAY OF THE LORD. The day of the Lord is darkness and there is NO light in it.
Here is a good example for J7 of me proving a point, which neither KJV nor J7 will admit to.

Jerusalem cannot be the prostitute spoken of in Revelation 17-18. You say that Jerusalem is the woman who rides the beast and was probably destroyed by fire.

Regarding her destruction, Revelation 18:22-23 says the following:

* The music of harpists and musicians, pipers and trumpeters, will never be heard in you again.
* No worker of any trade will ever be found in you again.

* The sound of a millstone will never be heard in you again.

* The light of a lamp will never shine in you again.

* The voice of bridegroom and bride will never be heard in you again.

The above demonstrates that the destruction that this city suffers will be permanent. It will never be inhabited again. The type of destruction here where no one will ever be able to inhabit her again, will most likely be due to a nuclear strike on that city. That being said, how could Jerusalem have previously been destroyed with fire (as you claim) so that no one will be able to inhabit her ever again and yet Jerusalem is inhabited as I write this and has been inhabited for quite some time. Not only that, but scripture also demonstrates that Jerusalem will be inhabited during the millennial period.

Now J7 and KJV11, I have just proven a point using scripture to refute what you said above. Now I suppose you will be racing around to invent an apologetic to refute the truth that I have presented.

Jerusalem is not the woman of Revelation 17 & 18.
 

PlainWord

Senior Member
Jun 11, 2013
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Yes Jerusalem is the whore and yes Jerusalem was probably destroyed by fire but that was the DAY OF THE LORD. The day of the Lord is darkness and there is NO light in it.

Amos 5:20 KJV
Shall not the day of the Lord be darkness, and not light? even very dark, and no brightness in it?

I would assume whoever you quoted from is lying or else God lied when he said there is NO LIGHT in the day of the Lord. Do you think AD 70 was the day of the Lord?

There were multiple "Days of the Lord." The "Day of the Lord" means a day of divine judgment. It is not a singular end of the world event.


 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
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I place the two witnesses in Jerusalem warning them prior to it's destruction. Regardless see the below commentary on Jer 8. Just a random one I found.

https://www.studylight.org/commentaries/bcc/jeremiah-8.html
Your claim is pure conjecture, as there is no record of the events of the two witnesses and the plagues that they will bring about. Also, as I said before, the beast coming up out of the Abyss is the one who kills them and that hasn't happened.
 
Nov 23, 2013
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The timing is clear if you accept the Great Tribulation in Mat 24 as the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD. You do, right? All the early church fathers do.

The passage says, "...Immediately AFTER the tribulation of those days." It then goes on to say, "this generation will by no means pass away till all these things take place."

I am the only one on here who accepts the clear teaching that Christ returns IMMEDIATELY AFTER THE TRIBULATION OF 70 AD and that THIS SAME GENERATION WILL SEE IT. All of the rest of you disregard the clearest way to read this and move it to the end of the planet Earth. Some of you place it before some future global great trib, others place it after. But all of you disregard Mat 24 and Mat 16 where Jesus plainly teaches when He will return.

I think the great tribulation was the persecution of the saints by the Jews leading up to AD 70, AD 70 was the wrath of God on Israel. But yes I agree with you that none of this future, it all happened at the first coming of Christ and ended with the desctruction of Israel.
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,995
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The timing is clear if you accept the Great Tribulation in Mat 24 as the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD. . . .

The passage says, "...Immediately AFTER the tribulation of those days." It then goes on to say, "this generation will by no means pass away till all these things take place."

I am the only one on here who accepts the . . . teaching that Christ returns IMMEDIATELY AFTER THE TRIBULATION OF 70 AD and that THIS SAME GENERATION WILL SEE IT.
. . .


NOW I CAN AGREE WITH HIS STATEMENT.
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
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There were multiple "Days of the Lord." The "Day of the Lord" means a day of divine judgment. It is not a singular end of the world event.


There is only one event of the "the day of the Lord" and it is yet future. It is the time when God will pour out his wrath upon this Christ rejecting world in conjunction with the Lord's return to end the age. There is not multiple days of the Lord. The following will be the result of this single future event, as the prophet Zephaniah proclaims:

"I will utterly sweep away everything from the face of the earth,” declares the Lord.

“I will sweep away man and beast; I will sweep away the birds of the heavens and the fish of the sea, and the rubble with the wicked.

I will cut off mankind from the face of the earth,” declares the Lord


The above will be accomplished via the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments. Unless that is, that you think the above has already happened? But then, how could that be since we are still seeing birds, fish, animals and mankind as still being on the earth?
 
Apr 23, 2017
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I have no idea what you just said lol.
hahaha i said that he cant prove 70ad was the second coming from the bible because the latest book in the bible is revelation and thats 98ad.... i also said that ive been sleeping on this thread meaning neglecting not reading it after i found out the truth about end times matters....
 
Nov 23, 2013
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There were multiple "Days of the Lord." The "Day of the Lord" means a day of divine judgment. It is not a singular end of the world event.

:)
Whether the day of Lord is "multiple" or not doesn't change the fact that there is NO LIGHT in it... but you're saying there was light in the day of the Lord. I think you also don't believe the resurrected saints ascended with Jesus. Is this correct?
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
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Its like the Boy who cried wolf Ahwatukee.

You have violated and distorted the scriptures so badly, (actually to your's and others' destruction), that even were you now speaking truth, no Christian will give you the time of day.
Said the person who continues to distort the scriptures. The fact is that you can provide one proof of where I have not presented and explained scripture. But, I have spent enough time with those who distort the scriptures, the blind and those who have been deceived and who continue to deceive others with their teachings.

The Lord rebuke you for this! You are incapable of receiving the truth or understanding it. Don't bother responding because you are now on ignore. The Lord deal with you and those who spread false teachings.

I'll leave you with this, keep your eyes opened, because the next prophetic event to take place will be the fulfillment of the Lord's promise to come and take us back to the Father's house to those places that he prepared for us, which will be followed by that political figure, the antichrist, establishing a seven year covenant with Israel, followed closely by the building of her temple. When you see these things, then hopefully you will realize that everything that you have been teaching has been a like. Following that, you will witness the events of the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments in chronological order, including the plagues that the two witnesses will cause.

no Christian will give you the time of day.
Another lie! Plenty of Christians give me the time of the day. They are the same ones that know the same truth that I do and many of them are on this site.

I'm tired of the false teachings, but that is what scripture says will be taking place in the last days. The proof of what I have been contenting with you and others about will be proven when you see these events taking place in the future with your own eyes. Then you will know that I was telling the truth of God's word.
 
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Nov 23, 2013
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hahaha i said that he cant prove 70ad was the second coming from the bible because the latest book in the bible is revelation and thats 98ad.... i also said that ive been sleeping on this thread meaning neglecting not reading it after i found out the truth about end times matters....
It doesn't matter when the book of Revelation was written, that doesn't date the events being talked about in the book. From chapter 4 forward, it was a vision about the unsealing of a previously sealed book.
 
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VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
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I think the great tribulation was the persecution of the saints by the Jews leading up to AD 70, AD 70 was the wrath of God on Israel. But yes I agree with you that none of this future, it all happened at the first coming of Christ and ended with the desctruction of Israel.



I thought you were a lot smarter than to fall for the drivel that Preterists have fallen for.

The Great Tribulation is infinitely WORSE that 70 AD and the years prior to it. HERE IS JUST A PORTION OF IT.

Revelation 8:7-11 (GWT)
[SUP]7 [/SUP] When the first angel blew his trumpet, hail and fire were mixed with blood, and were thrown on the earth.
One-third of the earth was burned up
,
one-third of the trees were burned up,
and all the green grass was burned up.
[SUP]8 [/SUP] When the second angel blew his trumpet,
something like a huge mountain burning with fire was thrown into the sea.
One-third of the sea turned into blood,
[SUP]9 [/SUP] one-third of the creatures that were living in the sea died,
and one-third of the ships were destroyed.
[SUP]10 [/SUP] When the third angel blew his trumpet,
a huge star flaming like a torch fell from the sky.
It fell on one-third of the rivers and on the springs.
[SUP]11 [/SUP] That star was named Wormwood.
One-third of the water turned into wormwood,
and many people died from this water because it had turned bitter.



Revelation 8:7-11 (KJV)
[SUP]7 [/SUP] The first angel sounded, and there followed hail and fire mingled with blood, and they were cast upon the earth:
and the third part of trees was burnt up,
and all green grass was burnt up.
[SUP]8 [/SUP] And the second angel sounded,
and as it were a great mountain burning with fire was cast into the sea:
and the third part of the sea became blood;
[SUP]9 [/SUP] And the third part of the creatures which were in the sea, and had life, died;
and the third part of the ships were destroyed.
[SUP]10 [/SUP] And the third angel sounded, and there fell a great star from heaven, burning as it were a lamp,
and it fell upon the third part of the rivers, and upon the fountains of waters;
[SUP]11 [/SUP] And the name of the star is called Wormwood:
and the third part of the waters became wormwood;
and many men died of the waters, because they were made bitter.
 

J7

Banned
Apr 2, 2017
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It's not for you to make those judgements over Jesus's head VCO.

Jesus said the destruction of Jerusalem was the Greatest of all tribulations.

What is there to argue about, unless you have an unbelieving spirit?
[FONT=&quot]
21
For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.[/FONT]
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
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TRUE SITE OF SOLOMON'S TEMPLE, Discovered
and that Leaves Nothing to Stop the Jews from Rebuilding the Temple:


[video=youtube;vgCyD9AcDp4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vgCyD9AcDp4[/video]
 

PlainWord

Senior Member
Jun 11, 2013
7,080
151
63
I think the great tribulation was the persecution of the saints by the Jews leading up to AD 70, AD 70 was the wrath of God on Israel. But yes I agree with you that none of this future, it all happened at the first coming of Christ and ended with the desctruction of Israel.
The problem I see with this view (that the GT was the persecution of the saints) is that they were told to flee Judea when they saw the Abomination of Desolation (which Luke tells us was the armies surrounding Jerusalem). How can they flee what was aimed at them? There would be no GT if they all fled from it. The other point that refutes this idea is Paul's teaching in 2 Thes 1:

...since it is a righteous thing with God to repay with tribulation those who trouble you, [SUP]7 [/SUP]and to give you who are troubled rest with us when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels...

Therefore I believe the GT is the repaying of tribulation. I believe the GT is the wrath of God and the Lamb poured out against Jerusalem in double strength the tribulation they were dishing out against His people.

But, at least we agree on the relative timing of this as being 1st century.