The Rapture

[J7]

If you are post trib,Jesus CAN NOT come soon,and ,to you,when he comes,it is on a horse with millions of saints.

I have no doubt that is why,in the ten virgin parable,you omit the setting,Jesus,the oil,and those left behind.

See why that doctrine is so destructive?

Why not soon? He can come today.

I don't know about the horse....that is new to me.

Jesus said be careful if he delays his return that you don't start beating up the servants (the Church)

 

[heartofdavid]

1. there is no Scripture I know of speaking of stinging flying scorpions, but there is a creature that stings men giving great pain for months 2. the fiery hail stones came down as part of the ten plagues during the time of Moses 3 the mark of the beast is 666
Who cares what hamburger vision McDonald had. Darby turned her dream like vision into a pretribulation rapture doctrine that has plague Christianity with false doctrine that is not Scriptural.

What is your point? This comment contributes nothing to the thread.

Your last two comments are classic post trib deflections.

I pull back the covers,you guys start grabbing anything handy.....except verses LoL

Go ahead and elaborate on ole Margie. Tell us again .

Tell us what you were taught,falsely,by those "teachers" that never even read up on her.

Question for you postrib rapture adherents:

Can you admit she was post trib?

I will wait

 

[J7]

Also,why do you ascribe the label of "weak non productive Christian" to us. But to yourself,who is waiting for the AC,you see yourself as superior?

Because your doctrine is busted?

Go to a business with a corporate headquarters,and tell them,"the owners are coming day after tomorrow.
Under your wisdom,they get real sloppy,party,and loose all sight of being productive.

You guys love the obscure.

I have never ascribed this label to you.

Doctrine means nothing to my personal salvation. I can be 100% correct on every aspect of doctrine and still be rejected as worthless by God.

No. Go to the business and tell the workers the boss is in on Friday. Friday he doesn't appear. Sorry next Tuesday. No show. Sorry, Wednesday, no show. Now the shop floor is getting restless. Sorry, Friday I guarantee he'll be in. Still no show. Now credibility is vanishing fast....and so on......

 

[heartofdavid]

Why not soon? He can come today.

I don't know about the horse....that is new to me.

Jesus said be careful if he delays his return that you don't start beating up the servants (the Church)

Ok,you say Jesus comes AFTER the GT?

If so,how do you figure he is coming soon?

 

[J7]

Ok,you say Jesus comes AFTER the GT?

If so,how do you figure he is coming soon?

Because the Great Tribulation happened almost 2000 years ago.

 

[KJV1611]

Because Jesus says:

13 Keep awake therefore, for you know neither the day nor the hour.

Yes but you can't forget about Matthew 10:23 where Jesus said the disciples will not have gone over the cities of Israel til the son of man be come. Does this not fit in with "the day nor the hour"?

Matthew 10:23 KJV
But when they persecute you in this city, flee ye into another: for verily I say unto you, Ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come.

 

[J7]

Yes but you can't forget about Matthew 10:23 where Jesus said the disciples will not have gone over the cities of Israel til the son of man be come. Does this not fit in with "the day nor the hour"?

Matthew 10:23 KJV
But when they persecute you in this city, flee ye into another: for verily I say unto you, Ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come.

day & hour rings this bell for me:


Matthew 24:36 “But about that day and hour no one knows, neither the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.


God had warned the disciples down to the day when to get out of Jerusalem. Nisan 1 is the start of summer on the Hebrew calendar. They were warned to flee before Nisan 1 AD67.

 

[Snoozy]

Because the Great Tribulation happened almost 2000 years ago.

no no no very Wrong no. its gon be the worst time in da history of da planet. nothing that bad happened 2000 years ago much worse things have happened today even world wars and bombs in japan in 1940s. u need to study this more carefully Jesus would be back already if da great tribulation was then bcuz he returns at the end of the tribulation.
Jesus said:

Mat 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
Mat 24:22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

 

[heartofdavid]

I have never ascribed this label to you.

Doctrine means nothing to my personal salvation. I can be 100% correct on every aspect of doctrine and still be rejected as worthless by God.

No. Go to the business and tell the workers the boss is on Friday. Friday he doesn't appear. Sorry next Tuesday. No show. Sorry, Wednesday, no show. Now the shop floor is getting restless. Sorry, Friday I guarantee he'll be in. Still no show. Now credibility is vanishing fast....and so on......

We are not told when.

My little parable was not meant to cover a doctrine,only a single dynamic.

The delay is in the realm of " not knowing the day or hour",so we watch and wait NOT KNOWING.

I gave you an example to show you preparedness,and those prepared automatically have a robust walk.

 

[heartofdavid]

Ok show me how you think the mark happened,the stinging flying scorpions happened,and the fiery hailstones ever happened.

 

[J7]

But Revelation tells us about things "soon" coming to pass.

The Church has been reading Revelation for 2000 years. (Timeframes are hidden in Daniel & Revelation)

If they have the oil of the Holy Spirit to burn in the midnight hours of study, then they will understand the timeframes, and realize Jesus is not coming back for 2000 years. If they do not have enough Holy Spirit in their study pack, then they think

"soon" BUT WHEN? Soon to the flesh is 2 days, or 2 weeks.

 

[heartofdavid]

But Revelation tells us about things "soon" coming to pass.

The Church has been reading Revelation for 2000 years. (Timeframes are hidden in Daniel & Revelation)

If they have the oil of the Holy Spirit to burn in the midnight hours of study, then they will understand the timeframes, and realize Jesus is not coming back for 2000 years. If they do not have enough Holy Spirit in their study pack, then they think

"soon" BUT WHEN? Soon to the flesh is 2 days, or 2 weeks.

The oil was not for study.

The oil was missing(ran out) with the foolish.

The foolish asked the wise to impart theirs,and told the foolish to "go buy for yourselves"

AND THEY DID BUY,BUT THE TIMING WAS TOO LATE.

 

[heartofdavid]

Ok show me how you think the mark happened,the stinging flying scorpions happened,and the fiery hailstones ever happened.

And show any traction in trying to fit in " ...such as the world has never seen,or ever will see again"

Ad 70 is missing major,major,components of having any traction.

It is one huge grand canyon leap.

 

[KJV1611]

day & hour rings this bell for me:


Matthew 24:36 “But about that day and hour no one knows, neither the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.


God had warned the disciples down to the day when to get out of Jerusalem. Nisan 1 is the start of summer on the Hebrew calendar. They were warned to flee before Nisan 1 AD67.

Matthew 24:32-34 KJV
Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:

[33] So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.

[34] Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

The branches of the fig tree were tender and had put on leaves and summer was nigh. The summer was the end of earthly Israel and that happened when Jesus came the first time. Also, all those things in Matthew 24 were to be fulfilled BEFORE that generation passed. How is that future?

 

[J7]

The oil was not for study.

The oil was missing(ran out) with the foolish.

The foolish asked the wise to impart theirs,and told the foolish to "go buy for yourselves"

AND THEY DID BUY,BUT THE TIMING WAS TOO LATE.

All Prophecy is given by the Holy Spirit, and understood by the Holy Spirit.

19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

Oil is symbolic of the Holy Spirit. A virgin is symbolic of somebody who has pure doctrine, i.e. the Bible, the Word of God.

The 5 foolish virgins did not understand prophecy. Therefore they fell asleep instead of being ready for the Lord.

The wise virgins understood prophecy and therefore were ready for Christ when he returned

 

[J7]

Matthew 24:32-34 KJV
Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:

[33] So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.

[34] Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

The branches of the fig tree were tender and had put on leaves and summer was nigh. The summer was the end of earthly Israel and that happened when Jesus came the first time. Also, all those things in Matthew 24 were to be fulfilled BEFORE that generation passed. How is that future?

Not "all the things in Matthew 24". Did Jesus pause anywhere while he was speaking and say, "Are we onto the next chapter yet?"

 

[KJV1611]

Not "all the things in Matthew 24". Did Jesus pause anywhere while he was speaking and say, "Are we onto the next chapter yet?"

What was not fulfilled?

 

[PlainWord]

I cant see how you would say this if you had read any of the writings of Josephus or any of the other historical writings from that time period.
Why is "Jewish wars","Jewish revolt",,,ect. why is that it is well known that if someone is trying to repel the leadership of a government instead of honouring it then they are "against it" right?

The Jews in the siege were not worshipping Caesar(Nero,Vespasian,Titus ect.) they were "against them" and "revolting" against their authority all the way down to their death in ad70. Then after this the ones who did survive were carried away into captivity(against their will) and those who weren’t killed or carried away regrouped and revolted again and then did the same for the third time years later.

The same Jews refused to use Rome’s money because it had pagan images on them and minted their own https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Jewish_Revolt_coinage and so it is impossible to say that they took the mark(money of Rome) if they refused to use it so Revelation 13:17 absolutely could not be fulfilled by those Jews if they did not use Rome’s money.

It used to be a dare in the old days they would say "I dare any of you to read Josephus,ect." as if it would be conclusive in their behalf and in the end what it actually did was prove beyond any doubt that the Jews in ad66-70 absolutely did not worship Caesar nor receive his mark. Past that the only reason why anyone would try to say they did would be for the sole purpose of defending a camp instead of letting things be what they really mean.

I have read Josephus and many other ancient writings. Now I must ask, have you? The Jewish priests of the day prior to the revolt were installed by Rome and thus loyal to Rome. They worshiped and honored Caesar. See John 19:15 and Acts 17:5-7.

Thus the conditions in the temple prior to 66 AD were that of a temple loyal to Caesar and making sacrifices to his good health in the temple. Then Captain of the temple, Eleazar ben Ananius refused to give sacrifice to the Roman Emperor and slaughtered Florus' Roman garrison in Jerusalem. In response, Nero ordered Cestius Gallus, the Roman legate of Syria, to crush the rebellion. With his Legio XII Fulminata of 5,000 men, Cestius Gallus was ambushed and defeated at Beit-Horon in 66 AD by 2,400 Zealots led by Eleazar ben Simon. Eleazar pillaged the Legio and returned to Jerusalem with substantial loot. He used the wealth acquired in this decisive victory as political leverage during the battle for power in Jerusalem in 67-69 AD.

So, prior to the revolt, Jerusalem was in a harlot relationship with Rome.The defeat of Cestius caused Nero to send Vespasian to end the revolt and perhaps you know the rest of the story.

As for Roman coins, they were absolutely used in Jerusalem by the Roman loyalists. What do you think a denarius was that Jesus said to "give until Caesar that which is Caesar's?" Apparently they were still in use during Nero as the below article states.

Rare, 2,000-year-old Roman coin discovered in Jerusalem - CNN.com

 

[Ahwatukee]

And show any traction in trying to fit in " ...such as the world has never seen,or ever will see again"

Ad 70 is missing major,major,components of having any traction.

It is one huge grand canyon leap.

Morning!

Not to mention a third of the earth and trees being burned up, a third of the creatures in the sea killed and a third of the ships destroyed, a third of the rivers and fresh water contaminated so that many people die from drinking it, the sun, moon and stars darkened by a third, the demons out of the Abyss as you mentioned, a third of the inhabitants killed by those four angels and their army of 200 million, the ocean and fresh water turned to literal blood, the sun scorching the inhabitants with intense heat, the gathering of all the nations in the valley of Megiddo and the angel who gathers all of the birds of the air to eat the flesh of all those kings, generals, their armies, and the Lord descending with his called, chosen and faithful followers (the church) out of heaven, just to name a few.

These people have no idea of what would need to take place in order to claim that end-time events have already taken place!

God bless you for contending for the truth.

 

[Snoozy]

Unbelievable what im reading here ive been ta many churches and no one anywhere said things like this that Jesus already came or great tribulation is past already? it cant be past because Jesus returns at da end of da tribulation or as the bible calls it the time of jacob's trouble. what churches do u go to this sounds very suspicious and scary. u need to hear some real man of God preach the truth of God's word nto these manmade darby josephus theologians or catholic church fathers who cares about them lets see what the bible teaches.