The Rapture
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John the Baptist is often under appreciated in his role as the herald of Israel's/Jewish eschatology or eschaton:
Mal 3:1 Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me: and the Lord, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith the LORD of hosts.
John was the messenger of the old covenant in proclaiming wrath on the covenant breakers according to the blessings and curses of Deuteronomy.
Mal 3:5 And I will come near to you to judgment; and I will be a swift witness against the sorcerers, and against the adulterers, and against false swearers, and against those that oppress the hireling in his wages, the widow, and the fatherless, and that turn aside the stranger from his right, and fear not me, saith the LORD of hosts.
Mal 3:7 Even from the days of your fathers ye are gone away from mine ordinances, and have not kept them. Return unto me, and I will return unto you, saith the LORD of hosts. But ye said, Wherein shall we return?
Jesus stated that John was the messenger of Malachi:
Matt 11:9 But what went ye out for to see? A prophet? yea, I say unto you, and more than a prophet.
Matt 11:10 For this is he, of whom it is written, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee.
John warned the vipers that the axe was laid at the root, and that the swing of the axe was impending.
Matt 3:10 And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
John was not the herald/messenger of a wrath to come 1970 years later and counting.
The fact that he was threatening wrath according to the old covenant means that covenant could not "pass away" until that covenantal wrath was delivered and consummated which it was in the war of 66-70 AD
Mal 3:1 Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me: and the Lord, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith the LORD of hosts.
John was the messenger of the old covenant in proclaiming wrath on the covenant breakers according to the blessings and curses of Deuteronomy.
Mal 3:5 And I will come near to you to judgment; and I will be a swift witness against the sorcerers, and against the adulterers, and against false swearers, and against those that oppress the hireling in his wages, the widow, and the fatherless, and that turn aside the stranger from his right, and fear not me, saith the LORD of hosts.
Mal 3:7 Even from the days of your fathers ye are gone away from mine ordinances, and have not kept them. Return unto me, and I will return unto you, saith the LORD of hosts. But ye said, Wherein shall we return?
Jesus stated that John was the messenger of Malachi:
Matt 11:9 But what went ye out for to see? A prophet? yea, I say unto you, and more than a prophet.
Matt 11:10 For this is he, of whom it is written, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee.
John warned the vipers that the axe was laid at the root, and that the swing of the axe was impending.
Matt 3:10 And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
John was not the herald/messenger of a wrath to come 1970 years later and counting.
The fact that he was threatening wrath according to the old covenant means that covenant could not "pass away" until that covenantal wrath was delivered and consummated which it was in the war of 66-70 AD
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VCO,
Regarding your post #6192,
Thanks for sharing. I didn't say dying as a Christian is bad. I said we all must die before we can get to heaven.
At the end of the ages is not an expression for 2,000 years. They were literally at the end of their age, when Christ returned, the resurrection occurred and all things were restored. The resurrection would not have been visible. Paul clearly teaches in 1 Cor 15 [SUP]44 [/SUP]It is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. Mortals CANNOT see a spiritual body. If you could, you would see them everywhere (Heb 12:1).
You cite 1 Cor 15:20-23. Since the presence of Christ returned in 70 AD, so did the resurrection happen then. It was for all who died in Christ before that time. It was then that the Keys to Death and Hades were used to free the souls from Hades allowing them to go to heaven. In this new age, we go straight to heaven which is what your brother-in-law saw. His soul did not have to rest in Hades. Sorry about your loss but am so happy that in his physical death he brought spiritual life to another. What a joy and blessing that you shared that story with me. Thank you!!
The passage in 1 Cor 15:50-53 is so often misunderstood. It is not about changing of a physical body into a spiritual body. It is about the salvation of our soul and change in our destination. In Christ we are new creations. It is this new creation that Paul was trying to describe. Remember Hebrews 9? To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation. It's then that those alive were saved. Remember the Rich Man and Lazarus? That doesn't happen anymore. Death has been defeated. All enemies have been placed under His feet. The victory is final.
We believers are living on this earth as residents of heaven and part of the new spiritual temple in Christ. We are walking among and working with unbelievers who are "dead men walking" if they don't turn to Jesus before they die.
My salvation message is the same as yours except I don't talk about a future resurrection or rapture as they are in the past for all believers as has been the case since 70 AD. Remember, no preterist ever became a pre-trib dispensationalist but most preterists were once pre-trib dispensationalists. The difference between you and I is my eyes have been opened. Our future is the same as yours, our destinations are the same. Unless and until this age ends, we must all physically die first but our souls are already "alive." The only real difference is you think we have to wait to get spiritual bodies. We don't, we get them when we get to heaven, with no waiting. Which is better?
As for the Flood, it is another topic of great interest to me. I live near Las Vegas and see all the strata in the mountains having been thrust up. I walk on what used to covered by the ocean. I marvel at the Grand Canyon knowing how it was really formed. We can be happy that we share these views.
Regarding your post #6192,
Thanks for sharing. I didn't say dying as a Christian is bad. I said we all must die before we can get to heaven.
At the end of the ages is not an expression for 2,000 years. They were literally at the end of their age, when Christ returned, the resurrection occurred and all things were restored. The resurrection would not have been visible. Paul clearly teaches in 1 Cor 15 [SUP]44 [/SUP]It is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. Mortals CANNOT see a spiritual body. If you could, you would see them everywhere (Heb 12:1).
You cite 1 Cor 15:20-23. Since the presence of Christ returned in 70 AD, so did the resurrection happen then. It was for all who died in Christ before that time. It was then that the Keys to Death and Hades were used to free the souls from Hades allowing them to go to heaven. In this new age, we go straight to heaven which is what your brother-in-law saw. His soul did not have to rest in Hades. Sorry about your loss but am so happy that in his physical death he brought spiritual life to another. What a joy and blessing that you shared that story with me. Thank you!!
The passage in 1 Cor 15:50-53 is so often misunderstood. It is not about changing of a physical body into a spiritual body. It is about the salvation of our soul and change in our destination. In Christ we are new creations. It is this new creation that Paul was trying to describe. Remember Hebrews 9? To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation. It's then that those alive were saved. Remember the Rich Man and Lazarus? That doesn't happen anymore. Death has been defeated. All enemies have been placed under His feet. The victory is final.
We believers are living on this earth as residents of heaven and part of the new spiritual temple in Christ. We are walking among and working with unbelievers who are "dead men walking" if they don't turn to Jesus before they die.
My salvation message is the same as yours except I don't talk about a future resurrection or rapture as they are in the past for all believers as has been the case since 70 AD. Remember, no preterist ever became a pre-trib dispensationalist but most preterists were once pre-trib dispensationalists. The difference between you and I is my eyes have been opened. Our future is the same as yours, our destinations are the same. Unless and until this age ends, we must all physically die first but our souls are already "alive." The only real difference is you think we have to wait to get spiritual bodies. We don't, we get them when we get to heaven, with no waiting. Which is better?
As for the Flood, it is another topic of great interest to me. I live near Las Vegas and see all the strata in the mountains having been thrust up. I walk on what used to covered by the ocean. I marvel at the Grand Canyon knowing how it was really formed. We can be happy that we share these views.
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Yes the World is going to be in ruins from WAR, by the time Christ sets foot on the Mount of Olives. WWIII followed by a WAR with all the Armies of the World trying to destroy the remaining Jews and Christians in Jerusalem, hoping to stop Christ from coming back in the process. Therefore ALL THINGS WILL NEED TO BE RESTORED.
It's hard to keep track...
1 Thess 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
1 Thess 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
How can these still be "asleep" when you claim they were resurrected with Christ?
1 Thess 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
1 Thess 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
How can these still be "asleep" when you claim they were resurrected with Christ?
MALARKEY, HE BODILY ASCENDED AND WE WERE PROMISED HE WOULD RETURN IN THE SAME MANNER HE WAS SEEN ASCENDING. WHOEVER TAUGHT YOU THAT INSANE IDEA, TAUGHT YOU HERESY. No you did not have your eyes opened, you fell for the teachings of a heretic.
Acts 1:3-11 (GWT)
[SUP]3 [/SUP] After his death Jesus showed the apostles a lot of convincing evidence that he was alive. For 40 days he appeared to them and talked with them about the kingdom of God.
[SUP]4 [/SUP] Once, while he was meeting with them, he ordered them not to leave Jerusalem but to wait there for what the Father had promised. Jesus said to them, “I've told you what the Father promises:
[SUP]5 [/SUP] John baptized with water, but in a few days you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.”
[SUP]6 [/SUP] So when the apostles came together, they asked him, “Lord, is this the time when you're going to restore the kingdom to Israel?”
[SUP]7 [/SUP] Jesus told them, “You don't need to know about times or periods {Dispensationalism} that the Father has determined by his own authority.
[SUP]8 [/SUP] But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes to you. Then you will be my witnesses to testify about me in Jerusalem, throughout Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth.”
[SUP]9 [/SUP] After he had said this, he was taken to heaven. A cloud hid him so that they could no longer see him.
[SUP]10 [/SUP] They were staring into the sky as he departed. Suddenly, two men in white clothes stood near them.
[SUP]11 [/SUP] They asked, “Why are you men from Galilee standing here looking at the sky? Jesus, who was taken from you to heaven, will come back in the same way that you saw him go to heaven.”
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More false teachings!
"Then the end will come, when He hands over the kingdom to God the Father after He has destroyed all dominion, authority, and power. For He must reign until He has put all His enemies under His feet. The last enemy to be destroyed is death."
When and where is death destroyed?
"Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death—the lake of fire."
Death is thrown into the lake of fire during the great white throne judgment (Rev.20:11-15), which takes place after the millennial period, which would put Christ's last enemy as being destroyed after the millennial period. Therefore, the tribulation period must first take place, followed by the millennial period before death is destroyed.
It is therefore after the millennial period and at the great white throne judgment when Christ hands over the kingdom to God the Father.
No, this is not what LoCostco believes - I'm guessing you haven't been paying attention - the "first resurrection" is not THE resurrection.
The first "resurrection" includes all believers in Christ from the preaching of the apostles that went to the diaspora as per Peter and James' letter and the Gentiles with Paul - this resurrection is the "quickening" of being "raised" from sin death to life in Christ and continues to this day.
THE resurrection of the living and the dead is something totally different and not to be confused with John's 1st "resurrection".
The first "resurrection" includes all believers in Christ from the preaching of the apostles that went to the diaspora as per Peter and James' letter and the Gentiles with Paul - this resurrection is the "quickening" of being "raised" from sin death to life in Christ and continues to this day.
THE resurrection of the living and the dead is something totally different and not to be confused with John's 1st "resurrection".
It is Yahweh Whose feet were to stand on the Mount of Olives as He exercised His judgment on the nations and sent the good news out to the world. This has already happened in 1st century.
No mention of WWIII. And there are not many descendants of Abraham in Palestine.at present as genetics has proved. 90% of the 'jewish' inhabitants of Palestine are not descendants of Abraham at all. .
No mention of WWIII. And there are not many descendants of Abraham in Palestine.at present as genetics has proved. 90% of the 'jewish' inhabitants of Palestine are not descendants of Abraham at all. .
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He returned with the "Clouds of Heaven" in total fulfillment of Acts 1:11. It doesn't mean He returned bodily. In fact, His body was changing from resurrection to ascension becoming more and more spiritual.
He returned with power and great glory (Mt 24:30) and that is not how He left. The similarity were the "clouds" His army (Heb 12:1) which received Him and then returned with Him.
He returned with power and great glory (Mt 24:30) and that is not how He left. The similarity were the "clouds" His army (Heb 12:1) which received Him and then returned with Him.
Is this a heading? lol
More error. The Scripture says 'to God' (the three in One), not to God the Father,
Yes death is destroyed in the Lake of Fire, just as the dead are.
It takes place at the end of this age. There is no further millennium. You should put aside your venture into Roman Catholicism.
all myth lol the great tribulation began in around 70 AD. It was on the Jews and they are still enduring it to the present time. The 'millennial period' is NOW.
Christ hands it over to GOD (including Himself)
Spiritual death AHW!! Stop thinking carnally. You need to develop your spiritual insights.
2 Cor 5: [SUP]17 [/SUP]Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new.
Separation from God = spiritual death
This separation was restored.
Spiritual death (the second death) for believers was not applicable because they took part in the first resurrection. Hades was no longer in operation.
2 Cor 5: [SUP]17 [/SUP]Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new.
Separation from God = spiritual death
This separation was restored.
Spiritual death (the second death) for believers was not applicable because they took part in the first resurrection. Hades was no longer in operation.