The Rapture

[Bladerunner]

Who was or is the antichrist......if were yesterday.....Have we seen a leader that has control over all countries and please do not say the UN.

there will never be one. you need to learn how scripture uses language.

The Bible tells us the Anti-christ will be a leader over the world. The Beast with ten Horns should be enough to tell you these ten nations will be in the Anti-Christ's pocket'

The red horse has marched since 1st century as Jesus said.

You mean 70 AD.......Thought so......But in those days, not all the world was at war. War brings on Pestilence and famine. All were local to that area. Yes, I am aware that the Roman Army was killing people everywhere, but Rome did not own the entire world even with BOTH LEGS. Now there is an allusion of the scripture to those days but that is just an allusion and all because we know the history of the area. It goes no further than that. It is a prophecy that is yet to come.

There is no mention of worldwide You read it into it. It is the famines prophesied by Jesus.


rev 6:4.."4 And there went out another horse that was red: and power was given to him that sat thereon to take peace from the earth, and that they should kill one another: and there was given unto him a great sword."

To me this in red describes the whole world,,, does it not?



No worldwide famine is mentioned, just famines were the back rider goes..

As I stated before Famine, pestilence and war go together. It did say take the "peace for the Earth",,,so famine and pestilence would follow....But in 70 AD only the Middle east was involved principally Jerusalem.


Rubbish. This horseman marched long ago as Jesus forecast. It is continuing history. And there is no mention of a covenant Israel to rebuild the Temple. Dream on,

The fourth Horse the Pale horse....... Ah but there is 'my dear Watson'...... see Isaiah 28:14-18.. These passages tells of the reason why Israel would want to make a covenant with Death and HELL. The Anti-christ will only confirm (enforce) it for a time. the temple will be rebuilt within that 1260 days of the 1st half of Daniel's 70th week. And Yes, this passage also alludes to the death and destruction long ago to Jerusalem but is nothing more than alluding to the fact.



LOL who says? They marched along time ago. There have been massive war and famines regularly through out history.

Yes-Sir....they have and we have a history record of everyone of them. We also have a history record of all of them through the Holy Bible. They both concur. All I did was to explain how come pestilence and famine would be present in a future setting across the world.


LOL couldn't you dream up a horse? This refers to the ancient martyrs, and then on til the present days. Isolated parts of the earth? You are kidding me.

Sorry--There are only four apocalyptic horsemen. If you read Rev 4 through 6:6, You will find the Ruptured church represented sitting on thrones and the Martyred Saints Under the Altar of the Throne Room. Those martyred today are taken to heaven directly after death. They are and will be part of the Rapture ("the Dead shall rise first") that will take the living (Jesus's Church) directly to heaven after a BRIEF stopover in the clouds. YEAHHHHHHHH.

Where does it mention Jerusalem? You make up fairy tales. They were 'worldwide' martyrs commencing in 1st century.

The Martyred Saints will be after the Rapture has taken place out of those Christians left behind. The Churches in the early years did not extend into the whole world which is why Jesus gave us that duty to spread His Word. It is said that no Christians died at Jerusalem in 70 AD because they listened to the prophecy and had fled prior to the final siege by Titus. BUT the Christians during those days did come up on more and more random persecutions from the ascension of Christ to around 44AD and up to Nero in 64 AD. Where he started killing Christians for fun.


Daniel's 70th week followed on from the 69th week. The sixth seal refers to the second coming.

NO......Daniel's 69 weeks ended with the entrance of Jesus into Jerusalem on April 6, 32 AD and his death at the cross four days later. Daniel 9:26.. bears this out....."And after threescore and two weeks (62 weeks) shall Messiah be cut off (killed), but not for himself:" In verse 25 "to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks. This happened around 167 BC. So this make 69 weeks(7 weeks and threescore and two weeks.)

In Daniel's 9:27...."And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week:....": He refers to the Anti-christ that can be accounted for in several places of the Bible...... He is confirming that covenant between Israel and "Death and HELL".

Now we Know it has not happened yet because the Church is still here on earth. The restrainer must be removed before He is revealed. The Rapture removes the church thus removes the Holy Spirits duties as a restrainer. While the Holy Spirit will still be on earth helping evangelize those left behind, His restraining of man from total evil will not be around.

As we have seen down through the years, with the Romans, the Catholic Church, Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot and now ISIS just how cruel man can be... AND he is being restrained..... To what degree will Man's evil cruelty reach once the Restraints put on him by the Holy Spirit are GONE!.


In the sixth seal, Daniel's 70th week starts as earthquakes, Mountains and islands move and People DIE even though they have buried themselves underground. The 7 years of tribulations (Daniel's 70th week) have started.


LOL the point is that they can't hide from God's wrath.

You got that right!!!!!! Look at all the governments/preppers/scientist, etc that have set up areas to defend against nuclear war yet a simple earthquake can bury them within a few seconds.

Come off it. The church is mentioned in the form of believers.

The Church is Believers of Jesus Christ and his Gospel. Now like a good preterist, you are studying a false gospel. Look to Galations 4 and 5 for what happens there. The Church will be Raptured and the rest LEFT BEHIND. Time is running out....For GOD the Father only knows when and who the very last person will begin to believe in Jesus Christ. From that point in time, the Fulfillment of the Church will be completed. In short order, the Church will then be Raptured, taking all the dead from the OT and NT with those that are alive and kicking.

Now I know you are going to get on that wagon about me losing faith if the Rapture does not happen... I have no set period of time expecting Him to come. The main reason is NOT about the rapture but rather about the fact that it is a WIN-WIN situation. If I die before he comes back to Rapture people, My soul will be awaiting patiently in heaven for my poor dead body to be resurrected.


Honest at last!!!!

I am not sure about about that statement and what I meant to say but it is clear that the Church is mentioned seven times in the 1st 3 chapters of Revelation and nowhere is it to be found in Rev. 4-22. To be sure there are some 76 mentions of the Church from Mat 16:18-Eph 5:32 and then from Phil 3 :6-Rev 3:14

No but they are heavenly beings.

Well I guess you could call the twenty-four Elders that but they were not there at an earlier mention of the throne room in the Bible. Besides Jesus tells us just what they (the Raptured Church) will be doing.

Matthew 19:28.."And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel." Keep in mind that Jesus will set upon the Throne of David in Jerusalem in the Physical Self.

Now John sees, twenty four thrones. The other twelve are most likely the 12 apostles, it is not really defined. The other twelve seats are defiantly not representatives of the 12 tribes as Israel has been decreed to go through the tribulations (Daniel's 70th week). The remnant that lives are to be rulers on earth during the 1000 years.

Hope this Helps Valant...

SO Sad it probably will not help your situation........

But I do wish you have a safe and Blessed Day....
Blade.

 

[Bladerunner]

It is funny how pre-trib folks come to the bible with their mind already made up that there is a pre-trib rapture of the church. Then they use every possible means of manipulation of scripture in order to make the bible appear to teach a pre-trib rapture. If a pre-tribber, just once, put their prejudice in favor of the pre-trib rapture aside, and just read and believed the bible, they would find that the bible clearly teaches a post-trib rapture of the church. Jesus clearly taught a post-trib rapture of the church, literally describing it in detail. Paul taught that the church could not be raptured until after the revealing of the Antichrist and the Antichrist appears during the tribulation. John in Rev 6 had the return of Christ after the tribulation of the four horse men, and then later those who had came through that tribulation around the throne of God. It is all there to read.

There is no use for anyone to answer this post because you just want to argue... Post-tribers eschatology has been debunked for any years except in the hard core, like yourself. There is nothing I can say that will help change your mind, so I am just wasting my time.

 

[Bladerunner]

You misunderstood, where is the historical record of the MASS BEHEADING of genuine believers, since they think it all has already happened back in history. You and I know every from Rev. 4:1 through Rev. 22:21 is ALL FUTURE PROPHECY.

I see where you are going with this...

Those beheaded as well as all those, that were in Christ and were killed in mass numbers by Pol Pot, Stalin, Hitler, Isis and the Catholic Church. All of these souls were taken to heaven directly to await the Rapture where they will be reunited with their dead Bodies.

The martyrs are after the Rapture thus under the altar.

 

[tanakh]

There is no use for anyone to answer this post because you just want to argue... Post-tribers eschatology has been debunked for any years except in the hard core, like yourself. There is nothing I can say that will help change your mind, so I am just wasting my time.

I think you should get out more and mix. The Pre Trib position may be the dominant view on this site and no doubt there have been attempts to debunk it. But most of the worlds church still believe in Post Trib. In fact the Pre Trib position is
pre dominant mainly in the US The Pre Trib view was invented by English theologian and Brethren cult leader John Darby
For that reason alone I wouldn't give it any credence.

 

[popeye]

The bible does not say that all die that refuse the mark of the Beast...you added that to support your agenda, it says that he had power to put to death those who would not worship the Beast. Hitler had power to kill all those who opposed his reign and he did put many to death but not all because some escaped. Jesus described the same thing and described the persecution where many would be put to death, then Jesus said that after that tribulation He would return in the sky and gather believers from all over the world, so obviously the Antichrist did not kill all believers...of course you know that, however you chose to manipulate scripture in order to promote your agenda.

You continually take a few verses,leave out most and make a fool out of yourself.

IT SAYS that EVERY MAN,WOMAN,AND CHILD,BOTH FREE AND BOND,...ALL TAKE THE MARK.

You miss the mark because you do NOT KNOW the bible.

You depend on others to assemble some ridiculous doctrine and parrot it to others.

We keep correcting you only to have you come back with debunked 1830s mess and other non biblical rabbit trails.

It even says he,the AC,overcomes the saints. It SAYS he receives power to do so.

 

[popeye]

I think you should get out more and mix. The Pre Trib position may be the dominant view on this site and no doubt there have been attempts to debunk it. But most of the worlds church still believe in Post Trib. In fact the Pre Trib position is
pre dominant mainly in the US The Pre Trib view was invented by English theologian and Brethren cult leader John Darby
For that reason alone I wouldn't give it any credence.

IOW,You trust the early Catholics that originated the post trib views. You even say you base your views on the same folks that introduced indulgences,Mary worship,and the deity of the sacrament.

You base your view on men that never saw Israel re established,and burned heretics (who believed truth) like myself,And their writings.

Then your side makes the outlandish claim there are no writings of opposing views.

Uh,yeah,because your people burned them.

Go to a catholic site,find end times articles,and see how they use YOUR EXACT SAME TALKING POINTS.

Now,this thoroughly debunks your position,but I could get rich betting on your insistence of not following through in investigation

You guys are invincible. Completely deluded by some force driving you.

I am appalled you guys can honestly continue. You are 100% debunked.

 

[samuel23]

Hey Popeye: I never tire of pointing out truth because I know that when I do that God always backs me up. You don't understand the Lord Popeye, when you resort to deceitful manipulation you always lose because the Lord never operates that way. I can see through what you are up to as easy as it is to see through a freshly cleaned window. Here is what you are doing, you have to have all the tribulation saints killed during the tribulation in order to maintain your false pre-trib rapture, however in the real world Jesus said that He would return and rapture the saints AFTER the tribulation, thereby proving that many saints make it through the tribulation alive. Therefore your position that all the saints are killed during the tribulation does not have the bible to back it up...just little ole you out there on a limb all by yourself.

 

[samuel23]

To those who insist on promoting this false pre-trib rapture, I feel so sorry for you folks because it really is false and all one has to do is read the bible without prejudice to see it. If you folks keep beating that dead horse in time you will get some of it on you(I think you already have).

 

[valiant]

Who was or is the antichrist......if were yesterday.....Have we seen a leader that has control over all countries and please do not say the UN.

there will never be one. you need to learn how scripture uses language.

The Bible tells us the Anti-christ will be a leader over the world. The Beast with ten Horns should be enough to tell you these ten nations will be in the Anti-Christ's pocket'

'The world' in the New Testament means the roman world. See Rom 1.8.

The red horse has marched since 1st century as Jesus said.

You mean 70 AD.......Thought so...

From the time when John wrote and the seals were opened. It started when Jesus opened the first seal. Not particularly in 70 ad.

...But in those days, not all the world was at war.

and it won't ever be. But there was plenty of warfare going on. LOL you love you worldwide warfare.,

War brings on Pestilence and famine. All were local to that area.

So you're admitting now to local wars and famine.? Actually they were more than local. Rome and her enemies covered wide area.,

Yes, I am aware that the Roman Army was killing people everywhere, but Rome did not own the entire world even with BOTH LEGS.

But they owned the entire Roman world.

Now there is an allusion of the scripture to those days but that is just an allusion and all because we know the history of the area.

'There will be wars and rumours of wars. This was in 1st century AD and was the red horseman riding..

It goes no further than that. It is a prophecy that is yet to come.

Wars will continue to the end. The horseman continues to ride. It is a prophecy through the centuries,

And there is no mention of worldwide You read it into it. And the famines are the famines prophesied by Jesus.

rev 6:4.."4 And there went out another horse that was red: and power was given to him that sat thereon to take peace from the earth, and that they should kill one another: and there was given unto him a great sword."

To me this in red describes the whole world,,, does it not?

No it says peace from the earth not that the whole world will be at war. But I realise you are thirsty for blood.

No worldwide famine is mentioned, just famines were the black rider goes..

As I stated before Famine, pestilence and war go together. It did say take the "peace for the Earth",,,so famine and pestilence would follow....But in 70 AD only the Middle east was involved principally Jerusalem.

So there were areas where there was famine, pestilence and war? Well Jesus prophesied all three. So its what we would expect. What has 70 ad got to do with it?.

This horseman marched long ago as Jesus forecast. It is continuing history. And there is no mention of a covenant Israel to rebuild the Temple. Dream on,

The fourth Horse the Pale horse....... Ah but there is 'my dear Watson'...... see Isaiah 28:14-18..

That is now past history.

These passages tells of the reason why Israel would want to make a covenant with Death and HELL.

God was prophesying their doom at the exile. He was interested in history not just in 'the end'.

The Anti-christ will only confirm (enforce) it for a time. the temple will be rebuilt within that 1260 days of the 1st half of Daniel's 70th week.

LOL Daniel and is seventieth week. He must be turning in his grave. at the way its misused. No temple will be rebuilt that is acceptable to God. The sacrifices ceased in 70 ad, never to recommence..

And Yes, this passage also alludes to the death and destruction long ago to Jerusalem but is nothing more than alluding to the fact.

LOL

The four horsemen began their march a long time ago. There have been massive war and famines regularly through out history.

Yes-Sir....they have and we have a history record of everyone of them.

Actually very doubtful,

We also have a historical record of all of them through the Holy Bible. They both concur. All I did was to explain how come pestilence and famine would be present in a future setting across the world.

well?

 

[serpentdove]

To those who insist on promoting this false pre-trib rapture, I feel so sorry for you folks...

No one is arguing that you are going in the rapture (1 Thess. 4:16, 17).

 

[samuel23]

No one is arguing that you are going in the rapture (1 Thess. 4:16, 17).

And I said nothing about me going in the rapture...so your position is?

 

[samuel23]

Hey SP Read 2Thess 2 and it will tell you that the rapture cannot occur until after the revealing of the Antichrist, the Antichrist reigns during the tribulation.

 

[tanakh]

IOW,You trust the early Catholics that originated the post trib views. You even say you base your views on the same folks that introduced indulgences,Mary worship,and the deity of the sacrament.

You base your view on men that never saw Israel re established,and burned heretics (who believed truth) like myself,And their writings.

Then your side makes the outlandish claim there are no writings of opposing views.

Uh,yeah,because your people burned them.

Go to a catholic site,find end times articles,and see how they use YOUR EXACT SAME TALKING POINTS.

Now,this thoroughly debunks your position,but I could get rich betting on your insistence of not following through in investigation

You guys are invincible. Completely deluded by some force driving you.

I am appalled you guys can honestly continue. You are 100% debunked.

Thank you for your rant. If you want to believe in a teaching that was promoted by a cultist its your decision. Why not pick and mix and believe in some JW teachings as well or Joseph Smiths book of Mormon. Or actually become a full paid up member of the Exclusive Brethren. You would have to stop using Computers and other wicked works of the devil and only work for Brethren members also have your life controlled by the local elders. You also will only be allowed to read John Darbys translation of the Bible. Still your one consolation is that they are all Pre tribbers. I wish you well.

 

[valiant]

[COLOR=#0000cd[COLOR=#0000cd] If you read Rev 4 through 6:6, You will find the Ruptured church represented sitting on thrones and the Martyred Saints Under the Altar of the Throne Room.

Which raptured church? Rev 4-5 give a picture of Heaven (and more) in John's time prior to the opening of the seven seals. No raptured church there. All are heavenly beings except 5.13-14.

The martyred saints in chapter 6 portray the martyred saints of all centuries crying to God for justice. They are said to be under the altar because they rest in the shed blood of Jesus, prior to resurrection.

Those martyred today are taken to heaven directly after death. They are and will be part of the Rapture ("the Dead shall rise first") that will take the living (Jesus's Church) directly to heaven after a BRIEF stopover in the clouds. YEAHHHHHHHH[/COLOR].

Something on which we can agree. They join the raptured saints on the Last Day.

Where does it mention Jerusalem? You make up fairy tales. They were 'worldwide' martyrs commencing in 1st century.

The Martyred Saints will be after the Rapture has taken place out of those Christians left behind.

ALL Christians alive at the end will be raptured.

It is said that no Christians died at Jerusalem in 70 AD because they listened to the prophecy and had fled prior to the final siege by Titus.

By whom?

BUT the Christians during those days did come up on more and more random persecutions from the ascension of Christ to around 44AD and up to Nero in 64 AD. Where he started killing Christians for fun.

And then continued on.

By the way Daniel's 70th week followed on from the 69th week. The sixth seal refers to the second coming.

NO......Daniel's 69 weeks ended with the entrance of Jesus into Jerusalem on April 6, 32 AD and his death at the cross four days later. Daniel 9:26.. bears this out....."And after threescore and two weeks (62 weeks) shall Messiah be cut off (killed), but not for himself:" In verse 25 "to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks. This happened around 167 BC. So this make 69 weeks(7 weeks and threescore and two weeks.)

Very good. You can count. But He was actually cut off in the middle of the seventieth week.

In Daniel's 9:27...."And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week:....":

The Messiah 'confirmed covenant' with many for one 'week'. This was when He preached in Galilee, Judea and Perea, confirming the old covenant with the Jews,. But in the midst of the week He was cut off, causing the sacrifices and oblations to ceasea s He had replaced them.

He refers to the Anti-christ that can be accounted for in several places of the Bible...... He is confirming that covenant between Israel and "Death and HELL".

Hebrew requires that 'he' looks back to the nearest subject, in this case the One who was cut off..

Now we Know it has not happened yet because the Church is still here on earth.

It was with the Jews that He confirmed covenant. Why bring the church in?

The restrainer must be removed before He is revealed.

Satan was restrained from that time on. We learn later it was by the restraining angel.

The Rapture removes the church thus removes the Holy Spirits duties as a restrainer

.

The restrainer was a resrraining angel. Neither the church nor the Holy Spirit were removed.

While the Holy Spirit will still be on earth helping evangelize those left behind, His restraining of man from total evil will not be around.

LOL you make it mean what you want. You admit you can't remove the Holy Spirit, so you compromise.

As we have seen down through the years, with the Romans, the Catholic Church, Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot and now ISIS just how cruel man can be...And He is being restrained

I presume you mean the Devil?

..... To what degree will Man's evil cruelty reach once the Restraints put on him by the Holy Spirit are GONE!.

You tell me. You revel in it.

In the sixth seal, Daniel's 70th week starts as earthquakes, Mountains and islands move and People DIE even though they have buried themselves underground. The 7 years of tribulations (Daniel's 70th week) have started.

No not in the seventieth week. That is a myth.

The sixth seal introduces the second coming. The stars fell to earth, the sky vanished like a scroll. What could exist after that? And the world awaits the wrath of the Lamb.
The point of the following descriptions is that they can't hide from God's wrath.

You got that right!!!!!! Look at all the governments/preppers/scientist, etc that have set up areas to defend against nuclear war yet a simple earthquake can bury them within a few seconds.

You say it was a simple earthquake. I say it was the final judgment.

 

[valiant]

IOW,You trust the early Catholics that originated the post trib views. You even say you base your views on the same folks that introduced indulgences,Mary worship,and the deity of the sacrament.

You don't know your church history. The early Catholics like Irenaeus had no truck with Mary worship, indulgences, etc,

You base your view on men that never saw Israel re established,and burned heretics (who believed truth) like myself,And their writings.

It is a false Israel. Not God's Israel. And the EARLY CATHOLICS burned no one.

Then your side makes the outlandish claim there are no writings of opposing views

.

There aren't because no one held them.

Uh,yeah,because your people burned them.

In 2nd century AD? That's news to me

Go to a catholic site,find end times articles,and see how they use YOUR EXACT SAME TALKING POINTS.

Well they are right on that.

Now,this thoroughly debunks your position,but I could get rich betting on your insistence of not following through in investigation

How does it?

You guys are invincible. Completely deluded by some force driving you.

You mean the truth?

I am appalled you guys can honestly continue. You are 100% debunked.

I am appalled at your ignorance. What is 100% debunked?

 

[Bladerunner]

I think you should get out more and mix. The Pre Trib position may be the dominant view on this site and no doubt there have been attempts to debunk it. But most of the worlds church still believe in Post Trib. In fact the Pre Trib position is
pre dominant mainly in the US The Pre Trib view was invented by English theologian and Brethren cult leader John Darby
For that reason alone I wouldn't give it any credence.

Tanakh...everyone has their own opinion...i have never based my faith on outside sources. Of course, in the post-modern world that is the trend. Charismatic and Pentecostal views are abounding everywhere. The Word of God has not changed...The Bible has or at least all those Versons beyond the KJV have.. With all those budding theologist out there, they have decided that just about everyone needs a Bible version of their own...

Oh, they for the most part say the same thing. Yet, when only one word is different than those that God allowed to be printed, changes the Bible into just another novel. Another book of good and bad, life and death.

You see, God is in control,,,, IN CONTROL,,,,,There is no Global warming that was caused by mankind yet man's arrogance is running high these days. There are no Aliens from other worlds,,,,,only Fallen Angels, who are part of Satans group, indoctrinating those who will listen and those who will rejoice at the coming of the Ancient alien race that placed us here. The Word of GOD is what HE allowed to be inspired or written. Have you ever ask yourself why all the biblical changes in today society? Its called PC..... Even the Bible has been affected by this little two word phrase. To make someone feel good about themselves, about their lifestyles, about their eternity, etc. etc.....

There are those out there that take the Bible apart verse by verse and read into each verse what they want it to say. The Book of Revelation is a great example. To most it is only symbolism. When one has a vision,. the interpretation of that vision is anybody's guess. Post-tribers remove the 1000 years of Jesus' physical rule here on earth as a Spiritual event that we are in now. How they got to this point, I do not know... BUT by removing the millennium, one can discount Daniel and His prophecies,,,One can discount the almost 800 prophcies within the Book of Revelation itself. None of the Tribulations will happen because they were in the past (70AD), Israel is forsaken by GOD himself who turned his attention to the Church. I presume they are talking about the EMERGING Church where even tribes who have never heard the Word of God or saw a Bible are standing on HOLY GROUND (thus saved) because God was once there.

Jesus tells us in Mat 24:21-22....,. A book that everybody likes to quote from and distort freely, tells us that there will be a great tribulation (which most place in the Past). Continuing in verse 22 HE tells us that unless the days were shortened, there would be no life left on earth. OH, they cry to get this verse out of the Bible and cannot, so they just ignore verse 22....... WHY????? because how could the Roman Army destroy all life on earth in 70 AD????? The answer is they could not.... BUT today we could very easily kill everyone on earth with nuclear weapons.

Yes, my friend it is getting bad out there and it appears you have been caught-up in it as well. It is so-sad. For when the Rapture happens, the Nuclear bombs start dropping, killing millions with hunger & pestilence taking their fair share on human bodies, for these who die, there is no hope of Salvation. The sadist thing is,,,, for those who are all about everything but the WORD of GOD, will have only themselves to blame. Because unlike the 70 AD destruction of Jerusalem and God's temple, The death toll of Human life will be WORLD WIDE......

I pray each day, that you(Tanakh) and the others see through the smoke and wrap yourselves around the Truth of Jesus Christ.

However, the denials I hear on this forum leads those who preach those denials, away from the Word of GOD and places them in the path of destruction and eternal torment. It is So-Sad!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Tankh, I hope you have a blessed day.

Blade

 

[Bladerunner]

The bible does not say that all die that refuse the mark of the Beast...you added that to support your agenda, it says that he had power to put to death those who would not worship the Beast. Hitler had power to kill all those who opposed his reign and he did put many to death but not all because some escaped. Jesus described the same thing and described the persecution where many would be put to death, then Jesus said that after that tribulation He would return in the sky and gather believers from all over the world, so obviously the Antichrist did not kill all believers...of course you know that, however you chose to manipulate scripture in order to promote your agenda.

All those who have the Mark of the Beast,,will DIE..... Those living through Daniel's 70th week will populate the earth for the Millennium. These are both believers and non-believers.

 

[Bladerunner]

there will never be one. you need to learn how scripture uses language.



'The world' in the New Testament means the roman world. See Rom 1.8.

The red horse has marched since 1st century as Jesus said.



From the time when John wrote and the seals were opened. It started when Jesus opened the first seal. Not particularly in 70 ad.



and it won't ever be. But there was plenty of warfare going on. LOL you love you worldwide warfare.,




So you're admitting now to local wars and famine.? Actually they were more than local. Rome and her enemies covered wide area.,



But they owned the entire Roman world.





'There will be wars and rumours of wars. This was in 1st century AD and was the red horseman riding..



Wars will continue to the end. The horseman continues to ride. It is a prophecy through the centuries,

And there is no mention of worldwide You read it into it. And the famines are the famines prophesied by Jesus.




No it says peace from the earth not that the whole world will be at war. But I realise you are thirsty for blood.

No worldwide famine is mentioned, just famines were the black rider goes..



So there were areas where there was famine, pestilence and war? Well Jesus prophesied all three. So its what we would expect. What has 70 ad got to do with it?.

This horseman marched long ago as Jesus forecast. It is continuing history. And there is no mention of a covenant Israel to rebuild the Temple. Dream on,



That is now past history.




God was prophesying their doom at the exile. He was interested in history not just in 'the end'.




LOL Daniel and is seventieth week. He must be turning in his grave. at the way its misused. No temple will be rebuilt that is acceptable to God. The sacrifices ceased in 70 ad, never to recommence..



LOL

The four horsemen began their march a long time ago. There have been massive war and famines regularly through out history.



Actually very doubtful,



well?

OK,, I see you are so in to the gospel of your choice, you will never get out...So--SAD

 

[VCO]

I see where you are going with this...

Those beheaded as well as all those, that were in Christ and were killed in mass numbers by Pol Pot, Stalin, Hitler, Isis and the Catholic Church. All of these souls were taken to heaven directly to await the Rapture where they will be reunited with their dead Bodies.

The martyrs are after the Rapture thus under the altar.

IF THEY WERE BORN AGAIN CHRISTIANS, yes those went to heaven, but THAT IS NOT WHAT I WAS TALKING ABOUT. There is NO EVENT IN HISTORY that compares to MASS BEHEADINGS the real Antichrist will ORDER. My understanding is this: After we leave to go to the Wedding of the Lamb in Heaven; every single person who then becomes a genuine Believer in Jesus Christ, will ultimately become a beheaded martyr for Jesus Christ, as ORDERED BY THE DICTATOR WE CALL THE FINAL FORM OF ANTICHRIST. WHO is a DICTATOR reigning over the Revived Roman Empire, whom SATAN HIMSELF INTERS AND POSSESSES.

Those martyred saints are what we call the Tribulation Saints, the same ones who appear in Heaven coming out from under the ALTAR. WHY THE ALTAR? Because it was manditory for the High Priest to pour out the blood of the Sacrifice around the Base of the Altar. THEREFORE that is where Jesus Christ poured out His sacrificial blood in Heaven, thus the Beheaded Tribulation Saints are literally coming through the Blood of Jesus Christ into Heaven.

 

[Bladerunner]

No one is arguing that you are going in the rapture (1 Thess. 4:16, 17).

AH,,,but Satan and his followers do not want you to think that..... or even read those verses that way..... It is all symbolic these days or PC>