The Rapture
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The evidence about the time frame is answered by Jesus prophecy that the ENTIRE WORLD would see his return. Wiggle around all you want but that assertion brings your theory crashing down!!! Live with the prophecy out of the mouth of Jesus. Compared to Him you are just noise blowing in the wind. I believe Him against your assertion that everything is in the spirit world. Isaiah prophesied a new Jerusalem will descend on the current Jerusalem and Jesus will then reign physically on the throne on Mt. Zion physically!!! I believe Jesus and Isaiah. I refute your words with those two authorities. Can't get better than Jesus!!
Nope, the correct translation is "the tribes of the land" which were the tribes of Israel. I refute your words and they are YOUR words, not Jesus' words.
The "New Jerusalem" is in fact spiritual, it came from the spiritual realm, and it happened in the first century. Why am I even arguing with you? It's a waste of time. How can I discuss history with someone who doesn't know history?
You want Jesus words. Here they are using the AMPC which inserts alternate meanings of words. Refute Matthew 24. This is the rapture and second coming of Jesus seen by the earth.
Matthew 24 Amplified Bible, Classic Edition (AMPC)
1 Jesus departed from the temple area and was going on His way when His disciples came up to Him to call His attention to the buildings of the temple and point them out to Him.
2 But He answered them, Do you see all these? Truly I tell you, there will not be left here one stone upon another that will not be thrown down.
3 While He was seated on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately and said, Tell us, when will this take place, and what will be the sign of Your coming and of the end (the completion, the consummation) of the age?
4 Jesus answered them, Be careful that no one misleads you [deceiving you and leading you into error].
5 For many will come in (on the strength of) My name [appropriating the name which belongs to Me], saying, I am the Christ (the Messiah), and they will lead many astray.
6 And you will hear of wars and rumors of wars; see that you are not frightened or troubled, for this must take place, but the end is not yet.
7 For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom, and there will be famines and earthquakes in place after place;
8 All this is but the beginning [the early pains] of the birth pangs [of the intolerable anguish].
9 Then they will hand you over to suffer affliction and tribulation and put you to death, and you will be hated by all nations for My name’s sake.
10 And then many will be offended and repelled and will begin to distrust and desert [Him Whom they ought to trust and obey] and will stumble and fall away and betray one another and pursue one another with hatred.
11 And many false prophets will rise up and deceive and lead many into error.
12 And the love of the great body of people will grow cold because of the multiplied lawlessness and iniquity,
13 But he who endures to the end will be saved.
14 And this good news of the kingdom (the Gospel) will be preached throughout the whole world as a testimony to all the nations, and then will come the end.
15 So when you see the appalling sacrilege [the abomination that astonishes and makes desolate], spoken of by the prophet Daniel, standing in the Holy Place—let the reader take notice and ponder and consider and heed [this]—
16 Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains;
17 Let him who is on the housetop not come down and go into the house to take anything;
18 And let him who is in the field not turn back to get his overcoat.
19 And alas for the women who are pregnant and for those who have nursing babies in those days.
20 Pray that your flight may not be in winter or on a Sabbath.
21 For then there will be great tribulation (affliction, distress, and oppression) such as has not been from the beginning of the world until now—no, and never will be [again].
22 And if those days had not been shortened, no human being would endure and survive, but for the sake of the elect (God’s chosen ones) those days will be shortened.
23 If anyone says to you then, Behold, here is the Christ (the Messiah)! or, There He is!—do not believe it.
24 For false Christs and false prophets will arise, and they will show great signs and wonders so as to deceive and lead astray, if possible, even the elect (God’s chosen ones).
25 See, I have warned you beforehand.
26 So if they say to you, Behold, He is in the wilderness (desert)—do not go out there; if they tell you, Behold, He is in the secret places or inner rooms—do not believe it.
27 For just as the lightning flashes from the east and shines and is seen as far as the west, so will the coming of the Son of Man be.
28 Wherever there is a fallen body (a corpse), there the vultures (or eagles) will flock together.
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not shed its light, and the stars will fall from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.
30 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn and beat their breasts and lament in anguish, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory [in brilliancy and splendor].
31 And He will send out His angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather His elect (His chosen ones) from the four winds, [even] from one end of the universe to the other.
32 From the fig tree learn this lesson: as soon as its young shoots become soft and tender and it puts out its leaves, you know of a surety that summer is near.
33 So also when you see these signs, all taken together, coming to pass, you may know of a surety that He is near, at the very doors.
34 Truly I tell you, this generation (the whole multitude of people living at the same time, in a definite, given period) will not pass away till all these things taken together take place.
35 Sky and earth will pass away, but My words will not pass away.
36 But of that [exact] day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.
37 As were the days of Noah, so will be the coming of the Son of Man.
38 For just as in those days before the flood they were eating and drinking, [men] marrying and [women] being given in marriage, until the [very] day when Noah went into the ark,
39 And they did not know or understand until the flood came and swept them all away—so will be the coming of the Son of Man.
40 At that time two men will be in the field; one will be taken and one will be left.
41 Two women will be grinding at the hand mill; one will be taken and one will be left.
42 Watch therefore [give strict attention, be cautious and active], for you do not know in what kind of a day [whether a near or remote one] your Lord is coming.
43 But understand this: had the householder known in what [part of the night, whether in a [ night or a morning] watch the thief was coming, he would have watched and would not have allowed his house to be undermined and broken into.
44 You also must be ready therefore, for the Son of Man is coming at an hour when you do not expect Him.
45 Who then is the faithful, thoughtful, and wise servant, whom his master has put in charge of his household to give to the others the food and supplies at the proper time?
46 Blessed (happy, fortunate, and to be envied) is that servant whom, when his master comes, he will find so doing.
47 I solemnly declare to you, he will set him over all his possessions.
48 But if that servant is wicked and says to himself, My master is delayed and is going to be gone a long time,
49 And begins to beat his fellow servants and to eat and drink with the drunken,
50 The master of that servant will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour of which he is not aware,
51 And will punish him [cut him up by scourging] and put him with the pretenders (hypocrites); there will be weeping and grinding of teeth.
Matthew 24 Amplified Bible, Classic Edition (AMPC)
1 Jesus departed from the temple area and was going on His way when His disciples came up to Him to call His attention to the buildings of the temple and point them out to Him.
2 But He answered them, Do you see all these? Truly I tell you, there will not be left here one stone upon another that will not be thrown down.
3 While He was seated on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately and said, Tell us, when will this take place, and what will be the sign of Your coming and of the end (the completion, the consummation) of the age?
4 Jesus answered them, Be careful that no one misleads you [deceiving you and leading you into error].
5 For many will come in (on the strength of) My name [appropriating the name which belongs to Me], saying, I am the Christ (the Messiah), and they will lead many astray.
6 And you will hear of wars and rumors of wars; see that you are not frightened or troubled, for this must take place, but the end is not yet.
7 For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom, and there will be famines and earthquakes in place after place;
8 All this is but the beginning [the early pains] of the birth pangs [of the intolerable anguish].
9 Then they will hand you over to suffer affliction and tribulation and put you to death, and you will be hated by all nations for My name’s sake.
10 And then many will be offended and repelled and will begin to distrust and desert [Him Whom they ought to trust and obey] and will stumble and fall away and betray one another and pursue one another with hatred.
11 And many false prophets will rise up and deceive and lead many into error.
12 And the love of the great body of people will grow cold because of the multiplied lawlessness and iniquity,
13 But he who endures to the end will be saved.
14 And this good news of the kingdom (the Gospel) will be preached throughout the whole world as a testimony to all the nations, and then will come the end.
15 So when you see the appalling sacrilege [the abomination that astonishes and makes desolate], spoken of by the prophet Daniel, standing in the Holy Place—let the reader take notice and ponder and consider and heed [this]—
16 Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains;
17 Let him who is on the housetop not come down and go into the house to take anything;
18 And let him who is in the field not turn back to get his overcoat.
19 And alas for the women who are pregnant and for those who have nursing babies in those days.
20 Pray that your flight may not be in winter or on a Sabbath.
21 For then there will be great tribulation (affliction, distress, and oppression) such as has not been from the beginning of the world until now—no, and never will be [again].
22 And if those days had not been shortened, no human being would endure and survive, but for the sake of the elect (God’s chosen ones) those days will be shortened.
23 If anyone says to you then, Behold, here is the Christ (the Messiah)! or, There He is!—do not believe it.
24 For false Christs and false prophets will arise, and they will show great signs and wonders so as to deceive and lead astray, if possible, even the elect (God’s chosen ones).
25 See, I have warned you beforehand.
26 So if they say to you, Behold, He is in the wilderness (desert)—do not go out there; if they tell you, Behold, He is in the secret places or inner rooms—do not believe it.
27 For just as the lightning flashes from the east and shines and is seen as far as the west, so will the coming of the Son of Man be.
28 Wherever there is a fallen body (a corpse), there the vultures (or eagles) will flock together.
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not shed its light, and the stars will fall from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.
30 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn and beat their breasts and lament in anguish, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory [in brilliancy and splendor].
31 And He will send out His angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather His elect (His chosen ones) from the four winds, [even] from one end of the universe to the other.
32 From the fig tree learn this lesson: as soon as its young shoots become soft and tender and it puts out its leaves, you know of a surety that summer is near.
33 So also when you see these signs, all taken together, coming to pass, you may know of a surety that He is near, at the very doors.
34 Truly I tell you, this generation (the whole multitude of people living at the same time, in a definite, given period) will not pass away till all these things taken together take place.
35 Sky and earth will pass away, but My words will not pass away.
36 But of that [exact] day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.
37 As were the days of Noah, so will be the coming of the Son of Man.
38 For just as in those days before the flood they were eating and drinking, [men] marrying and [women] being given in marriage, until the [very] day when Noah went into the ark,
39 And they did not know or understand until the flood came and swept them all away—so will be the coming of the Son of Man.
40 At that time two men will be in the field; one will be taken and one will be left.
41 Two women will be grinding at the hand mill; one will be taken and one will be left.
42 Watch therefore [give strict attention, be cautious and active], for you do not know in what kind of a day [whether a near or remote one] your Lord is coming.
43 But understand this: had the householder known in what [part of the night, whether in a [ night or a morning] watch the thief was coming, he would have watched and would not have allowed his house to be undermined and broken into.
44 You also must be ready therefore, for the Son of Man is coming at an hour when you do not expect Him.
45 Who then is the faithful, thoughtful, and wise servant, whom his master has put in charge of his household to give to the others the food and supplies at the proper time?
46 Blessed (happy, fortunate, and to be envied) is that servant whom, when his master comes, he will find so doing.
47 I solemnly declare to you, he will set him over all his possessions.
48 But if that servant is wicked and says to himself, My master is delayed and is going to be gone a long time,
49 And begins to beat his fellow servants and to eat and drink with the drunken,
50 The master of that servant will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour of which he is not aware,
51 And will punish him [cut him up by scourging] and put him with the pretenders (hypocrites); there will be weeping and grinding of teeth.
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Idiotic short 5 minute rule prevented this addition. By the time I fix what the site messed up my time was gone.
Matthew 24 is in the real world after the tribulation with Jesus appearing in the sky so all earth can see him. Modern communications make this feasible. Definitely not in your spirit world.
Matthew 24 is in the real world after the tribulation with Jesus appearing in the sky so all earth can see him. Modern communications make this feasible. Definitely not in your spirit world.
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Try doing what I do when you have a long post to make. Write everything the way you want in Word, then cut and paste it here. You will still have to fix some things but hopefully you will have time. I'm usually too lazy to do it so I also make my share of typos but don't worry, you are coming through...
Let set something straight. The spiritual stuff relates to the Kingdom of God (or Heaven). This kingdom does not come with observation meaning those in the physical realm CANNOT observe it. If you are a believer, you are in the kingdom now. We aren't waiting for it to come.
Jesus' presence already returned in 66-70 AD just as He said He would.
The great tribulation of Mat 24 has nothing to do with some worldwide future event. See if you can follow the bouncing ball. John the Baptist was the first to mention it here in Mat 3:
For this to be true, Christ's presence had to return to THAT generation, not ours or some future generation. Then as He was arrested before the Chief Priest when He about to be led away to the Cross, Jesus says this:
Now how could this be possible if He didn't come back in that generation?
Let set something straight. The spiritual stuff relates to the Kingdom of God (or Heaven). This kingdom does not come with observation meaning those in the physical realm CANNOT observe it. If you are a believer, you are in the kingdom now. We aren't waiting for it to come.
Jesus' presence already returned in 66-70 AD just as He said He would.
The great tribulation of Mat 24 has nothing to do with some worldwide future event. See if you can follow the bouncing ball. John the Baptist was the first to mention it here in Mat 3:
And having seen many of the Pharisees and Sadducees coming about his baptism, he said to them, `Brood of vipers! who did shew you to flee from the coming wrath?
John was discussing the Wrath of the Lamb to come upon wicked Jerusalem in about 40 years. He is telling them that they will not escape. Indeed every last priest in Jerusalem was killed Titus after the War.
Next in Mat 16 Jesus says this:
Next in Mat 16 Jesus says this:
Verily I say to you, there are certain of those standing here who shall not taste of death till they may see the Son of Man coming in his reign.'
For this to be true, Christ's presence had to return to THAT generation, not ours or some future generation. Then as He was arrested before the Chief Priest when He about to be led away to the Cross, Jesus says this:
Jesus saith to him, `Thou hast said; nevertheless I say to you, hereafter ye shall see the Son of Man sitting on the right hand of the power, and coming upon the clouds, of the heaven.'
Now how could this be possible if He didn't come back in that generation?
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End,
You don't need to keep posting Mat 24. I know it by heart. I also went to the time and trouble showing you how everything fits in the first century. Take the time to read those posts if you want to understand things. Yes, the presence of Christ returned to Jerusalem and all the tribes of Israel saw it.
You don't need to keep posting Mat 24. I know it by heart. I also went to the time and trouble showing you how everything fits in the first century. Take the time to read those posts if you want to understand things. Yes, the presence of Christ returned to Jerusalem and all the tribes of Israel saw it.
I also know Daniel 12 by heart. I know all of these prophesies. Here's Dan 12:
[SUP]9 [/SUP]And he saith, `Go, Daniel; for hidden and sealed [are] the things till the time of the end.
There can be lots of "ends" with the world ending my friend. I'm going to put on a basketball game, I hope when it ends the world is still here
. Again, Daniel was talking about the end of Israel which came in 70 AD.Daniel 9 ends like this:
This fire consumed Jerusalem and left it desolate in 70 AD. This was the end of the nation.
Dan 12 starts like this:
and by the wing of abominations he is making desolate, even till the consummation, and that which is determined is poured on the desolate one.'
This fire consumed Jerusalem and left it desolate in 70 AD. This was the end of the nation.
Dan 12 starts like this:
And at that time stand up doth Michael, the great head, who is standing up for the sons of thy people, and there hath been a time of distress, such as hath not been since there hath been a nation till that time, and at that time do thy people escape, every one who is found written in the book.
This was the great tribulation of Israel in the first century AD. It was at this time that the resurrection took place of both righteous and wicked who had died throughout the ages until then. Since then when a believer dies, he/she goes straight to heaven - no more waiting in Hades for Christ's redemptive work. Daniel was among those on the correct side of Hades waiting for the resurrection at the end of Israel, not the planet.
A-F,
Is Rev 20:8 discussing the Jerusalem we see today? Consider that this is the only passage in the Bible where the term "beloved city" is used and there is no place where "beloved Jerusalem" is used. Consider also that "beloved" as found in the NT almost always is used as an adjective for a fellow brother or sister in Christ. In Rev 20:8 we have "saints" being surrounded.
Today's Jerusalem, with it's population of roughly 1 million is only 2% Christian. That would be only 20,000 saints. If all Christians in Israel were to gather in Jerusalem today, that number would still only be 160,000 which was far, far less than those killed in the war with Rome. So Jerusalem today does not seem to fit the description of Rev 20:8 for all these reasons.
In several places in the NT, the Church is called "the New Jerusalem," the place where the saints dwell. Collectively we Christians make up the New Jerusalem, both dead and alive. The idea of a "new heaven and earth" where righteousness dwells as opposed to the wicked old Jerusalem harlot as a ring of a spiritual place or a stronghold. The message in Rev 20:8 is of a glorious, spiritual and righteous place under assault by a wicked enemy. Is the Church under assault today?
The rest of Rev 20 takes place in the spiritual realm, starts out that way, ends that way. We have a resurrection or two and Christ reigning with beheaded saints. All of this take place in the spiritual realm. This is why I am guessing the "beloved city" is the Church and I see this event as future.
Is Rev 20:8 discussing the Jerusalem we see today? Consider that this is the only passage in the Bible where the term "beloved city" is used and there is no place where "beloved Jerusalem" is used. Consider also that "beloved" as found in the NT almost always is used as an adjective for a fellow brother or sister in Christ. In Rev 20:8 we have "saints" being surrounded.
Today's Jerusalem, with it's population of roughly 1 million is only 2% Christian. That would be only 20,000 saints. If all Christians in Israel were to gather in Jerusalem today, that number would still only be 160,000 which was far, far less than those killed in the war with Rome. So Jerusalem today does not seem to fit the description of Rev 20:8 for all these reasons.
In several places in the NT, the Church is called "the New Jerusalem," the place where the saints dwell. Collectively we Christians make up the New Jerusalem, both dead and alive. The idea of a "new heaven and earth" where righteousness dwells as opposed to the wicked old Jerusalem harlot as a ring of a spiritual place or a stronghold. The message in Rev 20:8 is of a glorious, spiritual and righteous place under assault by a wicked enemy. Is the Church under assault today?
The rest of Rev 20 takes place in the spiritual realm, starts out that way, ends that way. We have a resurrection or two and Christ reigning with beheaded saints. All of this take place in the spiritual realm. This is why I am guessing the "beloved city" is the Church and I see this event as future.
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I also know Daniel 12 by heart. I know all of these prophesies. Here's Dan 12:
[SUP]9 [/SUP]And he saith, `Go, Daniel; for hidden and sealed [are] the things till the time of the end.
There can be lots of "ends" with the world ending my friend. I'm going to put on a basketball game, I hope when it ends the world is still here
. Again, Daniel was talking about the end of Israel which came in 70 AD.
A-F,
First consider that "Israel" of the first century was divided. Christ calls it, "a divided house which cannot stand." Christ caused the division. He did not come to bring peace, but a sword.
The wicked part of Jerusalem is called the "Mother of all Harlots" while the believing part is the Woman of Rev 12, the "Mother of Christ." This contrast is undeniable and agrees with Gal 4.
Rev 12:5 is clearly the ascension of Christ back to heaven following His resurrection. Verse 5 and 6 are one sentence separated by "and" meaning the passage has one thought. Christ ascends to heaven and the Woman flees to the wilderness. Either we have a span of thousands of years - your theory. Or we have a span of less than 40 years - my theory.
According to early church tradition recorded by several early Church writers and Josephus, the Christians living in Jerusalem fled over the mountains to Pella when the Roman armies appeared. The would have crossed the wilderness to get there. Since Pella was destroyed earlier in the war, Rome did not attack her again so the Christians there were safe. They would have been in Pella approx. 1,260 days.
The rest of Rev 12 discusses Satan perusing the Woman but she was kept safe. So, Satan makes war against the Woman's offspring. Keep in mind that the first Christians were Jewish and this Woman was Jewish as she gave birth to Christ. So, who would be the Woman's offspring? I believe it is the of the church made up mostly of gentiles.
I agree it was during the same period. Since the great tribulation was the siege of Jerusalem we need to put the 2 Ws there. I can only identify one of the two Ws and Josephus records him. He was interestingly Jesus, son of Ananus. He would have been killed just a few days before the Romans broke through and destroyed the temple, so the timing fits. These two witnesses were killed, then the second woe came to an end. The second woe is the 6th trumpet where Rome killed 1/3 of the remaining Jews inside Jerusalem. Then Christ's presence returns and He has been reigning over the earth ever since.
"Coming for the kingdom?" We need to go over the meaning of "Parousia" again. Bad translations have Parousia meaning "coming" where the literal meaning is "presence." Often times a foreign word, in this case the Greek word "Parousia" is best understood by its antecedent. The opposite of Parousia is not "going" or "leaving" it is "absence." Now look at the YLT:
First consider that "Israel" of the first century was divided. Christ calls it, "a divided house which cannot stand." Christ caused the division. He did not come to bring peace, but a sword.
The wicked part of Jerusalem is called the "Mother of all Harlots" while the believing part is the Woman of Rev 12, the "Mother of Christ." This contrast is undeniable and agrees with Gal 4.
Rev 12:5 is clearly the ascension of Christ back to heaven following His resurrection. Verse 5 and 6 are one sentence separated by "and" meaning the passage has one thought. Christ ascends to heaven and the Woman flees to the wilderness. Either we have a span of thousands of years - your theory. Or we have a span of less than 40 years - my theory.
According to early church tradition recorded by several early Church writers and Josephus, the Christians living in Jerusalem fled over the mountains to Pella when the Roman armies appeared. The would have crossed the wilderness to get there. Since Pella was destroyed earlier in the war, Rome did not attack her again so the Christians there were safe. They would have been in Pella approx. 1,260 days.
The rest of Rev 12 discusses Satan perusing the Woman but she was kept safe. So, Satan makes war against the Woman's offspring. Keep in mind that the first Christians were Jewish and this Woman was Jewish as she gave birth to Christ. So, who would be the Woman's offspring? I believe it is the of the church made up mostly of gentiles.
I agree it was during the same period. Since the great tribulation was the siege of Jerusalem we need to put the 2 Ws there. I can only identify one of the two Ws and Josephus records him. He was interestingly Jesus, son of Ananus. He would have been killed just a few days before the Romans broke through and destroyed the temple, so the timing fits. These two witnesses were killed, then the second woe came to an end. The second woe is the 6th trumpet where Rome killed 1/3 of the remaining Jews inside Jerusalem. Then Christ's presence returns and He has been reigning over the earth ever since.
"Coming for the kingdom?" We need to go over the meaning of "Parousia" again. Bad translations have Parousia meaning "coming" where the literal meaning is "presence." Often times a foreign word, in this case the Greek word "Parousia" is best understood by its antecedent. The opposite of Parousia is not "going" or "leaving" it is "absence." Now look at the YLT:
[SUP]22 [/SUP]for even as in Adam all die, so also in the Christ all shall be made alive,
[SUP]23 [/SUP]and each in his proper order, a first-fruit Christ, afterwards those who are the Christ's, in his presence,
[SUP]24 [/SUP]then -- the end, when he may deliver up the reign to God, even the Father, when he may have made useless all rule, and all authority and power --[SUP]25 [/SUP]for it behoveth him to reign till he may have put all the enemies under his feet --
[SUP]23 [/SUP]and each in his proper order, a first-fruit Christ, afterwards those who are the Christ's, in his presence,
[SUP]24 [/SUP]then -- the end, when he may deliver up the reign to God, even the Father, when he may have made useless all rule, and all authority and power --[SUP]25 [/SUP]for it behoveth him to reign till he may have put all the enemies under his feet --
[SUP]26 [/SUP]the last enemy is done away -- death
Notice is was in Christ's presence that the resurrection occurred, not in His coming!! Notice also that the correct meaning is not to end all rule and authority but rather to render it useless? Christ's blood ended Death. When He resurrected the saints at His Parousia, He ended Death which is AKA Hades. He had the key to Hades and He set the captives free.
No Christian who dies since then goes to Hades thus, there is no death for them or us. Either Hades still has power over us or it doesn't. Which is it?
Notice is was in Christ's presence that the resurrection occurred, not in His coming!! Notice also that the correct meaning is not to end all rule and authority but rather to render it useless? Christ's blood ended Death. When He resurrected the saints at His Parousia, He ended Death which is AKA Hades. He had the key to Hades and He set the captives free.
No Christian who dies since then goes to Hades thus, there is no death for them or us. Either Hades still has power over us or it doesn't. Which is it?
Yes, a day = a year sometimes, like in the case with Dan 9. But not in this case because in this case we have the historical record which lines up nicely. Always go with the immediate fulfillment when you have one, rather than looking for an additional fulfillment years later.
Look closely at the passage:
Look closely at the passage:
and she brought forth a male child, who is about to rule all the nations with a rod of iron, and caught away was her child unto God and His throne,
[SUP]6 [/SUP]and the woman did flee to the wilderness, where she hath a place made ready from God, that there they may nourish her -- days a thousand, two hundred, sixty.
The Woman brought forth Jesus - this woman was 1st century Israel
and the Woman fled into the wilderness after His ascension. This has to be the Christian church in Jerusalem which famously left the city when the Roman armies appeared and not one soul was lost.
Later in Rev 12 we have this:
I said earlier that this was the gentile church being persecuted but there is another possibility. Soon after the War and destruction of Jerusalem, Caesar Vespasian ordered that all the seed of David be sought out and killed. Again, if we have a perfect fulfillment not long after the prophesy was given, we should go with that.
This is recorded by Eusebius around 300 AD.
Chapter XII.—Vespasian commands the Descendants of David to be sought.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]and the woman did flee to the wilderness, where she hath a place made ready from God, that there they may nourish her -- days a thousand, two hundred, sixty.
The Woman brought forth Jesus - this woman was 1st century Israel
and the Woman fled into the wilderness after His ascension. This has to be the Christian church in Jerusalem which famously left the city when the Roman armies appeared and not one soul was lost.
Later in Rev 12 we have this:
and the dragon was angry against the woman, and went away to make war with the rest of her seed, those keeping the commands of God, and having the testimony of Jesus Christ.
I said earlier that this was the gentile church being persecuted but there is another possibility. Soon after the War and destruction of Jerusalem, Caesar Vespasian ordered that all the seed of David be sought out and killed. Again, if we have a perfect fulfillment not long after the prophesy was given, we should go with that.
This is recorded by Eusebius around 300 AD.
Chapter XII.—Vespasian commands the Descendants of David to be sought.
He also relates that Vespasian after the conquest of Jerusalem gave orders that all that belonged to the lineage of David should be sought out, in order that none of the royal race might be left among the Jews; and in consequence of this a most terrible persecution again hung over the Jews.