The Rapture

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popeye

Guest
Well, actually, they are not even mentioned in Matthew 24. So they could not effect the dating. But the mark of the beast and the beheading both directly occurred in the Roman Empire, which was seen as 'world wide' (Rom1.8). The flying locusts were demonic activity. You really are trying it on.



Funny, I think it backs it up.



The historical great tribulation was the tribulation on the Jews from c.70 ad to the present day. The mark of the beast was in the Roman 'world'. They go together perfectly.
Show us a link to the beheadings,the mark,and the boils on all who took the mark.

And the flying scorpions.

Link please.
 
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popeye

Guest
AND lest we forget....the pre-tribbers have the Holy Spirit being removed in order for the man of sin to be revealed "2nd Thessalonians"

NO HOLY SPIRIT = NO SALVATION for anyone..........HE leads, guides into the truth and convinces and convicts the world of sin and faith in Christ........

ONE of MANY fallacies found....
The bible says taken out of the way.

Or am I wrong?
 
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popeye

Guest
Btw,where is it where Jesus said " there are those standing here that will not see death,till all these things happen"
...r something to that effect
 
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Who is preaching the word to them...
"...2. What John hears (7:2b–3): The fifth angel instructs the four not to harm the earth or sea until God’s servants have been sealed.
B. The sealed (7:4–8)
1. The total (7:4) : One hundred forty-four thousand are sealed.
2. The tribes (7:5–8): Twelve thousand from each of Israel’s twelve tribes are sealed." Willmington, H. L. (1999). The Outline Bible (Re 7:2–8). Wheaton, IL: Tyndale House Publishers.
 
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...The mark of the beast was in the Roman 'world'...
Who puts down Rome II?


"...[L]et me quote Dr. Unger from Unger’s Bible Commentary: Zechariah (p. 40):

In line with Daniel’s great prophecies concerning “the times of the Gentiles” (Dan. 2:31–45; 7:2–13) three of the horns in turn and under the punitive hand of God become smiths, while the fourth and last horn is cast down by the world–wide kingdom set up by the returning Christ, coming to dash to pieces His enemies who are at the same time His peoples’ enemies (Ps. 2:1–12). Thus the first horn (Babylon) is cast down by Medo–Persia, the second horn. The second horn (Medo–Persia), accordingly, in turn becomes the first smith. The second horn (Medo–Persia) is cast down by the third horn, and thus becomes the second smith. The third horn (Macedonian Greece), is in turn cast down by the fourth horn (Rome), which thus becomes the third smith. The fourth horn (Rome), the most dreadful of all, does not become a smith but in its revived ten–kingdom form of the last days is destroyed by the fourth smith, the millennial kingdom set up by the returning “King of kings and Lord of lords” (Rev. 19:16).
..." McGee, J. V. (1991). Thru the Bible commentary: The Prophets (Zechariah) (electronic ed., Vol. 32, p. 25). Nashville: Thomas Nelson.
 
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Jesus is reigning over the earth (Acts 2.30-36).

Satan said, “I will give you [Jesus] the glory of these kingdoms and authority over them … if you will bow down and worship me.” Lk 4:5–7. Did Jesus say that he had no authority over the kingdoms?
 

PlainWord

Senior Member
Jun 11, 2013
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Yep

They do get in.

They are left behind,refuse the mark,loose their heads in martyrdom,and John sees them standing before the throne as an innumerable number.
We should all wish to be left behind in the context of that passage. This is not the rapture, rather it is the end of the heavens and earth. The wicked are taken:

[SUP]51 [/SUP]and will cut him in two and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites. There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Luke's account says it better:

the one will be taken and the other left.”
[SUP]37 [/SUP]And they answered and said to Him, “Where, Lord?”

So He said to them, “Wherever the body is, there the eagles will be gathered together.”


Do you want to be taken to the body where the eagles are gathered? Not me.
 

PlainWord

Senior Member
Jun 11, 2013
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Guess Gabriel didn't know what he was talking about (1:31–33).

No, you don't know what Gabriel was talking about. Not sure what passage you were trying to quote, was it Dan 11:31-33? If so, that dealt with Antiochus IV Epiphanes.
 

PlainWord

Senior Member
Jun 11, 2013
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Btw,where is it where Jesus said " there are those standing here that will not see death,till all these things happen"
...r something to that effect
Mat 16: [SUP]28 [/SUP]“Assuredly, I say to you, there are some standing here who shall not taste death till they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom.”

True statement because His parousia was in Aug 70 AD.
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
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Scorpions don't fly, locusts fly.
That's because these things that come up out of the Abyss are neither locusts nor scorpions, but have some of their characteristics. They also have faces like human faces, hair like women's hair and teeth like lions teeth and look like horses prepared for battle. These are demonic beings that come up out of the Abyss at the sounding of the 5th trumpet/1st woe. They have a king over them, which is that angel of the Abyss, which is that beast who once was, now is not and yet will come, Abaddon/Apollyon. They will have one purpose and that is to torment the inhabitants of the earth with stings like that of a scorpion for five months.
 

PlainWord

Senior Member
Jun 11, 2013
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'All these things' from Matthew 24.4-26 took place within forty years of Christ's death. Thus that was the generation Jesus was pointing to. Whenever He spoke of this generation He always meant the generation now and to come.

You only deny the obvious meaning because that generation does not fit your theories.
Actually through verse 34.
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
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Mat 16: [SUP]28 [/SUP]“Assuredly, I say to you, there are some standing here who shall not taste death till they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom.”

True statement because His parousia was in Aug 70 AD.
Hello PW. Below is Luke's version:

The Prophecy:


"Truly I tell you, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the kingdom of God.”

Prophecy fulfilled:

About eight days after Jesus said this, he took Peter, John and James with him and went up onto a mountain to pray. As he was praying, the appearance of his face changed, and his clothes became as bright as a flash of lightning.

Right after Jesus makes the prophecy, the next verse says, "about eight days after Jesus said this" which lets the reader know that the following information is related to the previous prophecy. Those who were standing there was Peter, James and John. They would not taste of death because eight days later Jesus took them up a high mountain where they saw the Lord in His glorified state, which is what he was referring to when he said "they would see the kingdom of God." It is not referring to the end of the age.

You and others attempt to use this scripture as proof that Jesus returned to the earth while Peter, James and John were still alive, but that is not what the Lord was referring to. It was his transformation into His glorified state that he was referring to.

Each of the three gospels lists it in the following way:


Matt.16:28 - Truly I tell you, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom

Mark 9:1 - Truly I tell you, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see that the kingdom of God has come with power.”

Luke 9:27 - Truly I tell you, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the kingdom of God

In reference to Peter, James and John seeing "the kingdom of God," it was referring to Jesus' presence demonstrating the power of God. Below is another example that Jesus' reference to "the kingdom of God" was not referring to His return to end the age:

"And if I drive out demons by Beelzebul, by whom do your people drive them out? So then, they will be your judges. But if it is by the Spirit of God that I drive out demons, then the kingdom of God has come upon you.

In the scripture above, the act of Jesus casting out demons by the Spirit of God was referred to as the kingdom of God having come upon them and not in reference to Jesus return to the earth to end the age. Peter, James and John seeing Jesus in His glorified state is what Jesus was referring to regarding them seeing the kingdom of God having come with power.

It was their seeing the Lord in His glorified state that He was referring to and was fulfilled eight days after the Lord told them.
 
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PlainWord

Senior Member
Jun 11, 2013
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For those who want to know more about the Great Tribulation of 66-70 AD, read Deu 28:45-68. It exactly describes what happened to the disobedient of Jerusalem at the hands of the Romans. This passage dovetails nicely with Mat 24 and the accounts of Josephus.


 
Dec 12, 2013
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The bible says taken out of the way.

Or am I wrong?

Every pre-tribber I have heard states taken out with the church as comforter of the church......and will add.......there is not ONE thing in 2nd Thessalonians 2 that states it is the Holy Spirit restraining....regardless of those who push that it is.....
 

PlainWord

Senior Member
Jun 11, 2013
7,080
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Hello PW. Below is Luke's version:

The Prophecy:


"Truly I tell you, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the kingdom of God.”

Prophecy fulfilled:

About eight days after Jesus said this, he took Peter, John and James with him and went up onto a mountain to pray. As he was praying, the appearance of his face changed, and his clothes became as bright as a flash of lightning.

Right after Jesus makes the prophecy, the next verse says, "about eight days after Jesus said this" which lets the reader know that the following information is related to the previous prophecy. Those who were standing there was Peter, James and John. They would not taste of death because eight days later Jesus took them up a high mountain where they saw the Lord in His glorified state, which is what he was referring to when he said "they would see the kingdom of God." It is not referring to the end of the age.

You and others attempt to use this scripture as proof that Jesus returned to the earth while Peter, James and John were still alive, but that is not what the Lord was referring to. It was his transformation into His glorified state that he was referring to.

Each of the three gospels lists it in the following way:


Matt.16:28 - Truly I tell you, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom

Mark 9:1 - Truly I tell you, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see that the kingdom of God has come with power.”

Luke 9:27 - Truly I tell you, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the kingdom of God

In reference to Peter, James and John seeing "the kingdom of God," it was referring to Jesus' presence demonstrating the power of God. Below is another example that Jesus' reference to "the kingdom of God" was not referring to His return to end the age:

"And if I drive out demons by Beelzebul, by whom do your people drive them out? So then, they will be your judges. But if it is by the Spirit of God that I drive out demons, then the kingdom of God has come upon you.

In the scripture above, the act of Jesus casting out demons by the Spirit of God was referred to as the kingdom of God having come upon them and not in reference to Jesus return to the earth to end the age. Peter, James and John seeing Jesus in His glorified state is what Jesus was referring to regarding them seeing the kingdom of God having come with power.

It was their seeing the Lord in His glorified state that He was referring to and was fulfilled eight days after the Lord told them.
LOL. Did they think they would die in the next 8 days? No, Christ was not speaking of His transfiguration. He was speaking of His Mat 24:30-31 return. During the transfiguration, Christ was already with them, "He was transfigured before them." He wasn't coming to them as Mat 16 states.

This: [SUP]28 [/SUP]“Assuredly, I say to you, there are some standing here who shall not taste death till they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom.”

Is describing this:

[SUP]30 [/SUP]Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

Nice try though. Why can't you accept the obvious?