The Rapture
- Thread starter 2nicee
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
The antichrists, many that were there when 1 John was written are identified by the scriptures as a mystery made known.
Many today say he has not been revealed. If that is not true how would that be an advantage to him? Does the scripture reveal or will it take the believer by surprise?
What are some of the things scripture reveal in regard to their methodology? How will we know when we are in the presence of them?
Many today say he has not been revealed. If that is not true how would that be an advantage to him? Does the scripture reveal or will it take the believer by surprise?
What are some of the things scripture reveal in regard to their methodology? How will we know when we are in the presence of them?
That’s interesting? A Scripture informs us that if any man Jew or Gentile has not the Spirit of Christ the eternal Holy Spirit of God then neither do they belong as new creatures to Him .
Just exactly what would be the purpose of sewing up the veil that represented he has come in the flesh other than making the time of reformation without effect? Has the first century reformation spoken of in Hebrews 9 occurred and the veil remains intact?
Either Christ has come in the flesh by which we know him no more forever more or we are still awaiting the one time demonstration ?
Which one.... he has come in the flesh or its future seeing no man can serve two masters.
2Co 5:16 Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.
1Jo 4:2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:1Jo 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
Just exactly what would be the purpose of sewing up the veil that represented he has come in the flesh other than making the time of reformation without effect? Has the first century reformation spoken of in Hebrews 9 occurred and the veil remains intact?
Either Christ has come in the flesh by which we know him no more forever more or we are still awaiting the one time demonstration ?
Which one.... he has come in the flesh or its future seeing no man can serve two masters.
2Co 5:16 Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.
1Jo 4:2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:1Jo 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
First you need to substitute "earth" for "Israel." Next thing you need to do is understand that heavenly creatures often do appear as lightening to us on earth as I show below, including Christ!!!
Ez 1: 13 As for the likeness of the living creatures, their appearance was like burning coals of fire, like the appearance of torches going back and forth among the living creatures. The fire was bright, and out of the fire went lightning. 14 And the living creatures ran back and forth, in appearance like a flash of lightning.
Dan 10: 6 His body was like beryl, his face like the appearance of lightning, his eyes like torches of fire, his arms and feet like burnished bronze in color, and the sound of his words like the voice of a multitude.
It is very important to pay close attention to the actual words used. I agree, every eye saw Him. Notice carefully when the “tribes of Israel” mourn. They mourn when the see “the sign of the Son of Man's” appearance in heaven, not at His coming.
Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth (Israel) will mourn…
This appearance of Christ’s sign in heaven happens BEFORE His judgment return. Just what was the “Sign of the Son of Man in Heaven?” If you don’t know what this sign was, let me know as you won’t find it identified in scripture. You have to go to the historical record. Hint: They mourned because they realized judgment would be coming upon them.
After this happens, then we get the rest of the verse:
“…and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
There is no mention of a “touch-down” here. The "they" here are the wicked who were about to be judged. Since they are still mortal, this will appear as a very bright light and we have one in the historical record from multiple witnesses.
You also need to realize that no mortal can gaze upon the Lord (the Father or Son once He’s been re-glorified) directly and live. For it to be the way you say, Christ would have to return again as a man in order to be seen as a physical being. Or, they would all have to be changed into spiritual beings in order to see Him in a form other than an extremely bright light which I will prove is the case. The fact that He comes with power and great glory implies that He comes as His glorified spiritual self which would be revealed to the unsaved as a bright light just as it was to Saul and it blinded Saul.
Acts 9: And Ananias went his way and entered the house; and laying his hands on him he said, “Brother Saul, the Lord Jesus, who appeared to you on the road as you came, has sent me that you may receive your sight and be filled with the Holy Spirit.”
Now look at some other references of the Lord’s return from Paul, who saw Christ’s appearance before. Notice what form believers are in when they see Him:
Col 3: When Christ who is our life appears, then you also will appear with Him in glory.
See that? The Christians at Colosse will be glorified when Christ appears. Paul tells them (you) that they will appear with Christ he wasn't talking about some future generation.
Notice also when the judgment (meaning He decides who to rapture and who will face judgment upon His return) occurs. This happens at His appearing, not His coming:
2 Tim 4: I charge you therefore before God and the Lord Jesus Christ, who will judge the living and the dead at His appearing and His kingdom: [SUP]2 [/SUP]Preach the word! Be ready in season and out of season.
Tit 2: looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ
Heb 9: so Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many. To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation.
Notice it is to "those who eagerly wait for Him" that He appears to and raptures? He doesn't maybe appear to them. He WILL appear a second time to them.
1 Pet 5: and when the Chief Shepherd appears, you will receive the crown of glory that does not fade away.
This lesson is repeated over and over by multiple prophets, by Paul, by the writer of Hebrews and by Peter. Thus you have 3 witnesses so you better believe it.
Thus the rapture happened when He appeared ~ 66-70 AD because this is when saints were glorified and caught up to Him. Then when He came, the saints were already with Him as He executed judgment upon wicked Israel and others who were harming His church as we see here.
2 Thes 1: [SUP]6 [/SUP]since it is a righteous thing with God to repay with tribulation those who trouble you, [SUP]7 [/SUP]and to give you who are troubled rest with us when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels, [SUP]8 [/SUP]in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. [SUP]9 [/SUP]These shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power, [SUP]10 [/SUP]when He comes, in that Day, to be glorified in His saints and to be admired among all those who believe, because our testimony among you was believed.
The persecuted saints of Thessalonica got their rest when Christ was revealed (appeared) from Heaven. They were glorified and accompanied Him on His wrath return against Israel and the wicked who were persecuting the Church. This concludes an amazing lesson that is consistent with all teachings in the Bible. I hope you were blessed by it?
Ez 1: 13 As for the likeness of the living creatures, their appearance was like burning coals of fire, like the appearance of torches going back and forth among the living creatures. The fire was bright, and out of the fire went lightning. 14 And the living creatures ran back and forth, in appearance like a flash of lightning.
Dan 10: 6 His body was like beryl, his face like the appearance of lightning, his eyes like torches of fire, his arms and feet like burnished bronze in color, and the sound of his words like the voice of a multitude.
It is very important to pay close attention to the actual words used. I agree, every eye saw Him. Notice carefully when the “tribes of Israel” mourn. They mourn when the see “the sign of the Son of Man's” appearance in heaven, not at His coming.
Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth (Israel) will mourn…
This appearance of Christ’s sign in heaven happens BEFORE His judgment return. Just what was the “Sign of the Son of Man in Heaven?” If you don’t know what this sign was, let me know as you won’t find it identified in scripture. You have to go to the historical record. Hint: They mourned because they realized judgment would be coming upon them.
After this happens, then we get the rest of the verse:
“…and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
There is no mention of a “touch-down” here. The "they" here are the wicked who were about to be judged. Since they are still mortal, this will appear as a very bright light and we have one in the historical record from multiple witnesses.
You also need to realize that no mortal can gaze upon the Lord (the Father or Son once He’s been re-glorified) directly and live. For it to be the way you say, Christ would have to return again as a man in order to be seen as a physical being. Or, they would all have to be changed into spiritual beings in order to see Him in a form other than an extremely bright light which I will prove is the case. The fact that He comes with power and great glory implies that He comes as His glorified spiritual self which would be revealed to the unsaved as a bright light just as it was to Saul and it blinded Saul.
Acts 9: And Ananias went his way and entered the house; and laying his hands on him he said, “Brother Saul, the Lord Jesus, who appeared to you on the road as you came, has sent me that you may receive your sight and be filled with the Holy Spirit.”
Now look at some other references of the Lord’s return from Paul, who saw Christ’s appearance before. Notice what form believers are in when they see Him:
Col 3: When Christ who is our life appears, then you also will appear with Him in glory.
See that? The Christians at Colosse will be glorified when Christ appears. Paul tells them (you) that they will appear with Christ he wasn't talking about some future generation.
Notice also when the judgment (meaning He decides who to rapture and who will face judgment upon His return) occurs. This happens at His appearing, not His coming:
2 Tim 4: I charge you therefore before God and the Lord Jesus Christ, who will judge the living and the dead at His appearing and His kingdom: [SUP]2 [/SUP]Preach the word! Be ready in season and out of season.
Tit 2: looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ
Heb 9: so Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many. To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation.
Notice it is to "those who eagerly wait for Him" that He appears to and raptures? He doesn't maybe appear to them. He WILL appear a second time to them.
1 Pet 5: and when the Chief Shepherd appears, you will receive the crown of glory that does not fade away.
This lesson is repeated over and over by multiple prophets, by Paul, by the writer of Hebrews and by Peter. Thus you have 3 witnesses so you better believe it.
Thus the rapture happened when He appeared ~ 66-70 AD because this is when saints were glorified and caught up to Him. Then when He came, the saints were already with Him as He executed judgment upon wicked Israel and others who were harming His church as we see here.
2 Thes 1: [SUP]6 [/SUP]since it is a righteous thing with God to repay with tribulation those who trouble you, [SUP]7 [/SUP]and to give you who are troubled rest with us when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels, [SUP]8 [/SUP]in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. [SUP]9 [/SUP]These shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power, [SUP]10 [/SUP]when He comes, in that Day, to be glorified in His saints and to be admired among all those who believe, because our testimony among you was believed.
The persecuted saints of Thessalonica got their rest when Christ was revealed (appeared) from Heaven. They were glorified and accompanied Him on His wrath return against Israel and the wicked who were persecuting the Church. This concludes an amazing lesson that is consistent with all teachings in the Bible. I hope you were blessed by it?
Last edited:
.
The abomination that causes desolation occurred when the veil was rent.... the time of reformation had come, the use of the outward flesh of a Jew to announce the suffering of Christ beforehand and the glory to follow had come. The graves of the Old Testament saints(first ressurection) as to that glory were opened and they entered the promise land, the New heavenly Jerusalem…. as the segregate mother of us all
The woman in that parable (Revelation 12) can be no other than the bride of Christ the church.Same woman as Christ's bride the church depicted in Genesis 3:15 or Genesis 37. Christ creating an eternal bride is the subject matter of the book of prophecy. . (the Bible)
The male child is the Son of man “born to die” (God cannot die)This was in order to show God gave His Spirit life to us by a work of pouring out His Spirit on flesh. She is represented as the chaste virgin bride having not fornicated with the gods of this world .
Paul in various parables is used as a segregate womb as the mother of us all as he held out the seed of the gospel Christ, it caused the growth if there was growth . It has nothing to do with 1444,000 males who refuse to have a sexual relationship with their wives. The thousand in that parable represents a metaphor. Thousand is used throughout the scriptures to represent a unknown as to what ever is in view, time related or not.The evidence I would offer is overwelming unless a person turns a blind eye.
Twleve a remnant of all who were sent out with the gospel (apostles) like the word gates together make up the wife of Christ, the church . Multiplying the twelve apospltles used to indetify the new testament saint by the twelve gates representing the saints on the other side of the cros make up one bride. There is not a gospel for the Jews as His bride and another for the Gentiles.God is not a bigamist.
Twelve times twelve equals 144 coupled with the metaphor thousand(1444,00) it presents a picture of the bride shown in Revelation 12 coming down on the last day clothered with thrightouness of Christ, the time keepers the sun and moon no longer needed it is the end of time, the last day Judnment day for the unbeleiver the promised new inccoruptible day receiving our bodies that will never die for the saints..all in the twinkling of the eye.
The amil position is the only position that prepresents those parables accurately .No need to sew of the veil as if Christ did not come the first time.
Matthew 13:34 All these things spake Jesus unto the multitude in parables; and without a parable spake he not unto them:
Mark 4:11 And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables:
The presciption for rightly didving the word of truth reveled in the parable hid from natural man.
2Co 4:18 While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.
Without parables Christ the word of God spoke not. That can be seen by looking at a couple of other parables.
2Co 11:2 For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you(Timothy) to one husband( Christ), that I may present you (Timothy) as a chaste virgin to Christ.
Gal 4:19 My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you,
The abomination that causes desolation occurred when the veil was rent.... the time of reformation had come, the use of the outward flesh of a Jew to announce the suffering of Christ beforehand and the glory to follow had come. The graves of the Old Testament saints(first ressurection) as to that glory were opened and they entered the promise land, the New heavenly Jerusalem…. as the segregate mother of us all
The woman in that parable (Revelation 12) can be no other than the bride of Christ the church.Same woman as Christ's bride the church depicted in Genesis 3:15 or Genesis 37. Christ creating an eternal bride is the subject matter of the book of prophecy. . (the Bible)
The male child is the Son of man “born to die” (God cannot die)This was in order to show God gave His Spirit life to us by a work of pouring out His Spirit on flesh. She is represented as the chaste virgin bride having not fornicated with the gods of this world .
Paul in various parables is used as a segregate womb as the mother of us all as he held out the seed of the gospel Christ, it caused the growth if there was growth . It has nothing to do with 1444,000 males who refuse to have a sexual relationship with their wives. The thousand in that parable represents a metaphor. Thousand is used throughout the scriptures to represent a unknown as to what ever is in view, time related or not.The evidence I would offer is overwelming unless a person turns a blind eye.
Twleve a remnant of all who were sent out with the gospel (apostles) like the word gates together make up the wife of Christ, the church . Multiplying the twelve apospltles used to indetify the new testament saint by the twelve gates representing the saints on the other side of the cros make up one bride. There is not a gospel for the Jews as His bride and another for the Gentiles.God is not a bigamist.
Twelve times twelve equals 144 coupled with the metaphor thousand(1444,00) it presents a picture of the bride shown in Revelation 12 coming down on the last day clothered with thrightouness of Christ, the time keepers the sun and moon no longer needed it is the end of time, the last day Judnment day for the unbeleiver the promised new inccoruptible day receiving our bodies that will never die for the saints..all in the twinkling of the eye.
The amil position is the only position that prepresents those parables accurately .No need to sew of the veil as if Christ did not come the first time.
Matthew 13:34 All these things spake Jesus unto the multitude in parables; and without a parable spake he not unto them:
Mark 4:11 And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables:
The presciption for rightly didving the word of truth reveled in the parable hid from natural man.
2Co 4:18 While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.
Without parables Christ the word of God spoke not. That can be seen by looking at a couple of other parables.
2Co 11:2 For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you(Timothy) to one husband( Christ), that I may present you (Timothy) as a chaste virgin to Christ.
Gal 4:19 My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you,
i agree with what you said about jew nor greek doesnt matter if you dont have the spirit of God you are none of His like it says in the bible............. also its true im still open in my view of revelation im studying out all the options............... its very interesting im trying to find what origen had to say about it but most of his homilies are lost....................
i enjoy what valiant has shared i dont know if his beliefs have a name but they are certainly interesting.......
i enjoy what valiant has shared i dont know if his beliefs have a name but they are certainly interesting.......
I repeat:
The APPEARING in the clouds to CALL OUT HIS Bride to go to the Wedding of the Lamb, happens SO FAST it is compared to:
Luke 17:24 (HCSB)
[SUP]24[/SUP] For as the lightning flashes from horizon to horizon and lights up the sky,
so the Son of Man will be in His day.
Matthew 25:1-13 (NIV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] "At that time the kingdom of heaven will be like ten virgins who took their lamps and went out to meet the bridegroom.
[SUP]2 [/SUP] Five of them were foolish and five were wise.
[SUP]3 [/SUP] The foolish ones took their lamps but did not take any oil with them.
[SUP]4 [/SUP] The wise, however, took oil in jars along with their lamps.
[SUP]5 [/SUP] The bridegroom was a long time in coming, and they all became drowsy and fell asleep.
[SUP]6 [/SUP] "At midnight the cry rang out: 'Here's the bridegroom! Come out to meet him!'
[SUP]7 [/SUP] "Then all the virgins woke up and trimmed their lamps.
[SUP]8 [/SUP] The foolish ones said to the wise, 'Give us some of your oil; our lamps are going out.'
[SUP]9 [/SUP] "'No,' they replied, 'there may not be enough for both us and you. Instead, go to those who sell oil and buy some for yourselves.'
[SUP]10 [/SUP] "But while they were on their way to buy the oil, the bridegroom arrived. The virgins who were ready went in with him to the wedding banquet. And the door was shut.
[SUP]11 [/SUP] "Later the others also came. 'Sir! Sir!' they said. 'Open the door for us!'
[SUP]12 [/SUP] "But he replied, 'I tell you the truth, I don't know you.'
[SUP]13 [/SUP] "Therefore keep watch, because you do not know the day or the hour.
☝t<><
The SECOND COMING is so SLOW that all the armies of the world have time to gather near Jerusalem to try in vain to stop HIM from taking back the EARTH.
Revelation 19:11-21 (CSBBible)
[SUP]11 [/SUP] Then I saw heaven opened, and there was a white horse. Its rider is called Faithful and True, and he judges and makes war with justice.
[SUP]12 [/SUP] His eyes were like a fiery flame, and many crowns were on his head. He had a name written that no one knows except himself.
[SUP]13 [/SUP] He wore a robe dipped in blood, and his name is called the Word of God.
[SUP]14 [/SUP] The armies that were in heaven followed him on white horses, wearing pure white linen.
[SUP]15 [/SUP] A sharp sword came from his mouth, so that he might strike the nations with it. He will rule them with an iron rod. He will also trample the winepress of the fierce anger of God, the Almighty.
[SUP]16 [/SUP] And he has a name written on his robe and on his thigh: KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]Then I saw an angel standing in the sun, and he called out in a loud voice, saying to all the birds flying high overhead, "Come, gather together for the great supper of God,
[SUP]18 [/SUP] so that you may eat the flesh of kings, the flesh of military commanders, the flesh of the mighty, the flesh of horses and of their riders, and the flesh of everyone, both free and slave, small and great."
[SUP]19 [/SUP]
Then I saw the beast, the kings of the earth, and their armies gathered together to wage war against the rider on the horse and against his army.
[SUP]20 [/SUP] But the beast was taken prisoner, and along with it the false prophet, who had performed the signs in its presence. He deceived those who accepted the mark of the beast and those who worshiped its image with these signs. Both of them were thrown alive into the lake of fire that burns with sulfur.
[SUP]21 [/SUP] The rest were killed with the sword that came from the mouth of the rider on the horse, and all the birds ate their fill of their flesh.
Zechariah 14:3-12 (GW)
[SUP]3 [/SUP] Then the LORD will go out and fight against those nations as he does when he fights a battle.
[SUP]4 [/SUP] On that day his feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, just east of Jerusalem. The Mount of Olives will be split in two, forming a very large valley from east to west. Half of the mountain will move toward the north, and the other half will move toward the south.
[SUP]5 [/SUP] Then you will flee to the valley of my mountains, because this valley between the mountains will go as far as Azel. You will flee as you did from the earthquake at the time of King Uzziah of Judah. The LORD my God will come, and all the holy ones will be with him.
[SUP]6 [/SUP] On that day there will be neither heat nor freezing cold.
[SUP]7 [/SUP] There will be one day—a day known to the LORD—with no difference between day and night. It will be light even in the evening.
[SUP]8 [/SUP] On that day living water will flow out from Jerusalem, half of it to the Dead Sea and the other half to the Mediterranean Sea. It will continue in summer and in winter.
[SUP]9 [/SUP] The LORD will be king over all the earth. On that day the LORD will be the only Lord and his name the only name.
[SUP]10 [/SUP] The whole earth will become like the plains from Geba to Rimmon, south of Jerusalem. Jerusalem will rise and remain on its site, from Benjamin Gate to the place of First Gate, Corner Gate, and from the Tower of Hananel to the king's winepresses.
[SUP]11 [/SUP] People will live there, and it will never be threatened with destruction. Jerusalem will live securely.
[SUP]12 [/SUP] This will be the plague the LORD will use to strike all the people from the nations that have gone to war against Jerusalem. Their flesh will rot while they are standing on their feet. Their eyes will rot in their sockets, and their tongues will rot in their mouths.
How is it, you cannot see the difference?
THE SON OF MAN is the BRIDEGROOM coming for HIS BRIDE.
THE KING OF KINGS is the COMMANDER of the Heavenly ARMIES coming to make WAR on the Nations.
Last edited:
how do peoples here interpret zechariah 14? i think its difficult for all 3 positions.......... it mentions swords and old weapons........... it also mentions sacrifices and people taken captive and such.............. and it mentions the Lord coming back on mount of olives which would go well with Acts 1 where Jesus is said to do the same but all the rest of the chapter doesnt really fit today's modern world.......... for one no more swords or horses in war and canaanites dont exist anymore and it mentions them..........
I AM SHOWING YOU THE LITERAL TRANSLATION OF WHAT JESUS SAID:
Matthew 16:18 (YLT)
[SUP]18 [/SUP] `And I also say to thee, that thou art a rock, and upon this rock I will build my assembly, and gates of Hades shall not prevail against it;
THE POINT IS, JESUS DID NOT SAY CHURCH and neither did the Apostles.
Genesis 28:3 (HCSB)
[SUP]3 [/SUP] May God Almighty bless you and make you fruitful and multiply you so that you become an assembly of peoples.
Genesis 35:11 (YLT)
[SUP]11 [/SUP] And God saith to him, `I am God Almighty; be fruitful and multiply, a nation and an assembly of nations is from thee, and kings from thy loins go out;
Exodus 12:16 (HCSB)
[SUP]16 [/SUP] You are to hold a sacred assembly on the first day and another sacred assembly on the seventh day. No work may be done on those ⌊days⌋ except for preparing what people need to eat—you may do only that.
Exodus 12:5-6 (HCSB)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] You must have an unblemished animal, a year-old male; you may take it from either the sheep or the goats.
[SUP]6 [/SUP] You are to keep it until the fourteenth day of this month; then the whole assembly of the community of Israel will slaughter the animals at twilight.
Leviticus 4:13-14 (HCSB)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] “Now if the whole community of Israel errs, and the matter escapes the notice of the assembly, so that they violate any of the LORD’s commands and incur guilt by doing what is prohibited,
[SUP]14 [/SUP] then the assembly must present a young bull as a sin offering. When the sin they have committed in regard to the command becomes known, they are to bring it before the tent of meeting.
Leviticus 23:36 (HCSB)
[SUP]36 [/SUP] You are to present a fire offering to the LORD for seven days. On the eighth day you are to hold a sacred assembly and present a fire offering to the LORD. It is a solemn gathering; you are not to do any daily work.
Deuteronomy 23:8 (HCSB)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] The children born to them in the third generation may enter the LORD’s assembly.
etc., etc., etc.!
BY CHANGING the word THAT HE USED, ASSEMBLY, to CHURCH, N.T. Translators deliberately left out the O.T. SAINTS that HE BUILT, and took more importance on themselves than GOD INTENDED; and they imply that Grace of God is showing favoritism.
ALL OF US, both O.T. Saints and N.T. Saints are saved by the SAME FAITH, the FAITH of Abraham.
Matthew 16:18 (YLT)
[SUP]18 [/SUP] `And I also say to thee, that thou art a rock, and upon this rock I will build my assembly, and gates of Hades shall not prevail against it;
Greek Strong's Number: 1577
Greek Word: ἐκκλησία
Transliteration: ekklēsia
Phonetic Pronunciation:
ek-klay-see'-ah
Root: from a compound of <G1537> and a derivative of <G2564>
Cross Reference: TDNT - 3:501,394
Part of Speech: n f
Vine's Words: Assembly, Congregation
Strong's Talking Greek & Hebrew Dictionary.
Greek Word: ἐκκλησία
Transliteration: ekklēsia
Phonetic Pronunciation:
Root: from a compound of <G1537> and a derivative of <G2564>
Cross Reference: TDNT - 3:501,394
Part of Speech: n f
Vine's Words: Assembly, Congregation
Strong's Talking Greek & Hebrew Dictionary.
THE POINT IS, JESUS DID NOT SAY CHURCH and neither did the Apostles.
Genesis 28:3 (HCSB)
[SUP]3 [/SUP] May God Almighty bless you and make you fruitful and multiply you so that you become an assembly of peoples.
Genesis 35:11 (YLT)
[SUP]11 [/SUP] And God saith to him, `I am God Almighty; be fruitful and multiply, a nation and an assembly of nations is from thee, and kings from thy loins go out;
Exodus 12:16 (HCSB)
[SUP]16 [/SUP] You are to hold a sacred assembly on the first day and another sacred assembly on the seventh day. No work may be done on those ⌊days⌋ except for preparing what people need to eat—you may do only that.
Exodus 12:5-6 (HCSB)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] You must have an unblemished animal, a year-old male; you may take it from either the sheep or the goats.
[SUP]6 [/SUP] You are to keep it until the fourteenth day of this month; then the whole assembly of the community of Israel will slaughter the animals at twilight.
Leviticus 4:13-14 (HCSB)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] “Now if the whole community of Israel errs, and the matter escapes the notice of the assembly, so that they violate any of the LORD’s commands and incur guilt by doing what is prohibited,
[SUP]14 [/SUP] then the assembly must present a young bull as a sin offering. When the sin they have committed in regard to the command becomes known, they are to bring it before the tent of meeting.
Leviticus 23:36 (HCSB)
[SUP]36 [/SUP] You are to present a fire offering to the LORD for seven days. On the eighth day you are to hold a sacred assembly and present a fire offering to the LORD. It is a solemn gathering; you are not to do any daily work.
Deuteronomy 23:8 (HCSB)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] The children born to them in the third generation may enter the LORD’s assembly.
etc., etc., etc.!
BY CHANGING the word THAT HE USED, ASSEMBLY, to CHURCH, N.T. Translators deliberately left out the O.T. SAINTS that HE BUILT, and took more importance on themselves than GOD INTENDED; and they imply that Grace of God is showing favoritism.
ALL OF US, both O.T. Saints and N.T. Saints are saved by the SAME FAITH, the FAITH of Abraham.
Last edited:
Someone doesn't know Prophecy when he sees it.
SHOW ME THE SPLIT in the Mount of Olives forming a HUGE VALLEY.
SHOW ME THE FLAT PLAIN SOUTH OF JERUSALEM running all the way down to Rimmon.
HERE IS THE MOUNT OF OLIVES TODAY:
[h=4]From the Kidron Valley[/h] Separated from the Eastern Hill (the Temple Mount and the City of David) by the Kidron Valley, the Mt. of Olives has always been an important feature in Jerusalem’s landscape. From the 3rd millennium B.C. until the present, this 2900-foot hill has served as one of the main burial grounds for the city. The two-mile long ridge has three summits each of which has a tower built on it.
HERE IS WHAT THE TERRAIN LOOKS LIKE SOUTH OF JERUSALEM:
Zechariah 14:3-12 (GW)
[SUP]3 [/SUP] Then the LORD will go out and fight against those nations as he does when he fights a battle.
[SUP]4 [/SUP] On that day his feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, just east of Jerusalem. The Mount of Olives will be split in two, forming a very large valley from east to west. Half of the mountain will move toward the north, and the other half will move toward the south.
[SUP]5 [/SUP] Then you will flee to the valley of my mountains, because this valley between the mountains will go as far as Azel. You will flee as you did from the earthquake at the time of King Uzziah of Judah. The LORD my God will come, and all the holy ones will be with him.
[SUP]6 [/SUP] On that day there will be neither heat nor freezing cold.
[SUP]7 [/SUP] There will be one day—a day known to the LORD—with no difference between day and night. It will be light even in the evening.
[SUP]8 [/SUP] On that day living water will flow out from Jerusalem, half of it to the Dead Sea and the other half to the Mediterranean Sea. It will continue in summer and in winter.
[SUP]9 [/SUP] The LORD will be king over all the earth. On that day the LORD will be the only Lord and his name the only name.
[SUP]10 [/SUP] The whole earth will become like the plains from Geba to Rimmon, south of Jerusalem. Jerusalem will rise and remain on its site, from Benjamin Gate to the place of First Gate, Corner Gate, and from the Tower of Hananel to the king's winepresses.
[SUP]11 [/SUP] People will live there, and it will never be threatened with destruction. Jerusalem will live securely.
[SUP]12 [/SUP] This will be the plague the LORD will use to strike all the people from the nations that have gone to war against Jerusalem. Their flesh will rot while they are standing on their feet. Their eyes will rot in their sockets, and their tongues will rot in their mouths.
SHOW ME THE SPLIT in the Mount of Olives forming a HUGE VALLEY.
SHOW ME THE FLAT PLAIN SOUTH OF JERUSALEM running all the way down to Rimmon.
HERE IS THE MOUNT OF OLIVES TODAY:
[h=4]From the Kidron Valley[/h] Separated from the Eastern Hill (the Temple Mount and the City of David) by the Kidron Valley, the Mt. of Olives has always been an important feature in Jerusalem’s landscape. From the 3rd millennium B.C. until the present, this 2900-foot hill has served as one of the main burial grounds for the city. The two-mile long ridge has three summits each of which has a tower built on it.
HERE IS WHAT THE TERRAIN LOOKS LIKE SOUTH OF JERUSALEM:
Zechariah 14:3-12 (GW)
[SUP]3 [/SUP] Then the LORD will go out and fight against those nations as he does when he fights a battle.
[SUP]4 [/SUP] On that day his feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, just east of Jerusalem. The Mount of Olives will be split in two, forming a very large valley from east to west. Half of the mountain will move toward the north, and the other half will move toward the south.
[SUP]5 [/SUP] Then you will flee to the valley of my mountains, because this valley between the mountains will go as far as Azel. You will flee as you did from the earthquake at the time of King Uzziah of Judah. The LORD my God will come, and all the holy ones will be with him.
[SUP]6 [/SUP] On that day there will be neither heat nor freezing cold.
[SUP]7 [/SUP] There will be one day—a day known to the LORD—with no difference between day and night. It will be light even in the evening.
[SUP]8 [/SUP] On that day living water will flow out from Jerusalem, half of it to the Dead Sea and the other half to the Mediterranean Sea. It will continue in summer and in winter.
[SUP]9 [/SUP] The LORD will be king over all the earth. On that day the LORD will be the only Lord and his name the only name.
[SUP]10 [/SUP] The whole earth will become like the plains from Geba to Rimmon, south of Jerusalem. Jerusalem will rise and remain on its site, from Benjamin Gate to the place of First Gate, Corner Gate, and from the Tower of Hananel to the king's winepresses.
[SUP]11 [/SUP] People will live there, and it will never be threatened with destruction. Jerusalem will live securely.
[SUP]12 [/SUP] This will be the plague the LORD will use to strike all the people from the nations that have gone to war against Jerusalem. Their flesh will rot while they are standing on their feet. Their eyes will rot in their sockets, and their tongues will rot in their mouths.
Yes, I agree, that is what I am saying.
The Assembly In the Wilderness was physical Israel - the 12 Tribes.
The rules of admission to the Assembly changed from chopping off your foreskin to chopping off the fleshly desires of your mind.
So now to enter the Assembly you need to 'crucify the flesh'.
But the Assembly under Christ is still Israel.
Those who could not or would not accept Christ, and spiritual circumcision, were thrown out of the Assembly of Israel.
The Assembly In the Wilderness was physical Israel - the 12 Tribes.
The rules of admission to the Assembly changed from chopping off your foreskin to chopping off the fleshly desires of your mind.
So now to enter the Assembly you need to 'crucify the flesh'.
But the Assembly under Christ is still Israel.
Those who could not or would not accept Christ, and spiritual circumcision, were thrown out of the Assembly of Israel.
Not the bible, first the concept of two returns is created by him, then he attributes two events as if they are the pre-trib rapture and then the second coming. There is one return of Christ and the first thing He does is rapture the church, later comes the wrath of God through plagues, then Jesus Himself leads the armies in heaven to personally defeat the Antichrist.
ok so you are historic premillennial??? (post trib). i like that view too it has only one return of Jesus so its straightforward which i like but let me ask you who populates the millennial kingdom?????? if all saved are raptured at the end (resurrection) there is no one to reproduce since all glorified bodies dont marry or are given in marriage..........
ALMOST RIGHT.
Those who WOULD NOT OR COULD NOT ACCEPT CHRIST, never WERE PART OF THE ASSEMBLY HE BUILT.
Like I said:
O.T. Saints believed GOD would send a Messiah to redeem them from their sins.
N.T. Saints believed GOD did send a Messiah to redeem them from their sins.
IT IS THE SAME SAVING FAITH, the Faith of Abraham, AND GOD does not Change, Mal. 3:6.
Romans 9:6-8 (HCSB)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] But it is not as though the word of God has failed. For not all who are descended from Israel are Israel.
[SUP]7 [/SUP] Neither are they all children because they are Abraham’s descendants. On the contrary, your offspring will be traced through Isaac.
[SUP]8 [/SUP] That is, it is not the children by physical descent who are God’s children, but the children of the promise are considered to be the offspring.
1 John 2:19 (CSBBible)
[SUP]19 [/SUP] They went out from us, but they did not belong to us; for if they had belonged to us,
they would have remained with us. However, they went out so that it might be made clear
that none of them belongs to us.
Romans 11:25-31 (NCV)
[SUP]25 [/SUP] I want you to understand this secret, brothers and sisters, so you will understand that you do not know everything: Part of Israel has been made stubborn, but that will change when many who are not Jews have come to God.
[SUP]26 [/SUP] And that is how all Israel will be saved. It is written in the Scriptures: “The Savior will come from Jerusalem; he will take away all evil from the family of Jacob.
[SUP]27 [/SUP] And I will make this agreement with those people when I take away their sins.“
[SUP]28 [/SUP] The Jews refuse to accept the Good News, so they are God’s enemies. This has happened to help you who are not Jews. But the Jews are still God’s chosen people, and he loves them very much because of the promises he made to their ancestors.
[SUP]29 [/SUP] God never changes his mind about the people he calls and the things he gives them.
[SUP]30 [/SUP] At one time you refused to obey God. But now you have received mercy, because those people refused to obey.
[SUP]31 [/SUP] And now the Jews refuse to obey, because God showed mercy to you. But this happened so that they also can receive mercy from him.
Those who WOULD NOT OR COULD NOT ACCEPT CHRIST, never WERE PART OF THE ASSEMBLY HE BUILT.
Like I said:
O.T. Saints believed GOD would send a Messiah to redeem them from their sins.
N.T. Saints believed GOD did send a Messiah to redeem them from their sins.
IT IS THE SAME SAVING FAITH, the Faith of Abraham, AND GOD does not Change, Mal. 3:6.
Romans 9:6-8 (HCSB)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] But it is not as though the word of God has failed. For not all who are descended from Israel are Israel.
[SUP]7 [/SUP] Neither are they all children because they are Abraham’s descendants. On the contrary, your offspring will be traced through Isaac.
[SUP]8 [/SUP] That is, it is not the children by physical descent who are God’s children, but the children of the promise are considered to be the offspring.
1 John 2:19 (CSBBible)
[SUP]19 [/SUP] They went out from us, but they did not belong to us; for if they had belonged to us,
they would have remained with us. However, they went out so that it might be made clear
that none of them belongs to us.
Romans 11:25-31 (NCV)
[SUP]25 [/SUP] I want you to understand this secret, brothers and sisters, so you will understand that you do not know everything: Part of Israel has been made stubborn, but that will change when many who are not Jews have come to God.
[SUP]26 [/SUP] And that is how all Israel will be saved. It is written in the Scriptures: “The Savior will come from Jerusalem; he will take away all evil from the family of Jacob.
[SUP]27 [/SUP] And I will make this agreement with those people when I take away their sins.“
[SUP]28 [/SUP] The Jews refuse to accept the Good News, so they are God’s enemies. This has happened to help you who are not Jews. But the Jews are still God’s chosen people, and he loves them very much because of the promises he made to their ancestors.
[SUP]29 [/SUP] God never changes his mind about the people he calls and the things he gives them.
[SUP]30 [/SUP] At one time you refused to obey God. But now you have received mercy, because those people refused to obey.
[SUP]31 [/SUP] And now the Jews refuse to obey, because God showed mercy to you. But this happened so that they also can receive mercy from him.