The rapture

[Cup-of-Ruin]

quote]

I guess peter was brainwashed to according to cup of ruin , peter consider himself a jew which by your belief would make him an enemy of Israel. maybe we were all wrong including Jesus maybe it was peter that should have betrayed Jesus instead of Judas for if peter was a jew he must have been of the anti-christ according to the Doctrine of cup of Ruin

Ac 10:26But Peter took him up, saying, Stand up; I myself also am a man.Ac 10:27And as he talked with him, he went in, and found many that were come together.Ac 10:28And he said unto them, Ye know how that it is an unlawful thing for a man that is a Jew to keep company, or come unto one of another nation; but God hath showed me that I should not call any man common or unclean.

Where does Peter say he is a "jew"? He does not say that! Peter says that he is not a "jew", just because you highlight the word "jew" in a sentence said by Peter does not make Peter a "jew", can't you comprehend the words? Are you so brainwashed into worshipping Christ killers that you have lost all faculty to reason! It's like if I say to someone; 'Ye know how these 'judeochristians' only worship the 'jew nation'; but God has shown me that I should not worship the flase jew nation'...Now read what you wrote again, Peter does not say he ia a jew, but rather he is not like the 'jews'!!!!!

oh oh and I guess paul was brainwash also, it must be everyboby except Cup of ruin is brainwashed.

Php 3:5Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee;
Ac 21:39But Paul said, I am a man which am A JEW of Tarsus, a city in Cilicia, a citizen of no mean city: and, I beseech thee, suffer me to speak unto the people.

"I am a subject of Judea", like if I ask you to state your name and address, does that mean that your geographical location is the same as your family name! Paul says "I am a man which am a Ioudaios (in the sense of a country); Judean"...You notice that Paul is speaking to the guard, Paul is not giving his family history, he is just telling the guard where he is geographically from!!!!

Joh 4:7There cometh a woman of Samaria to draw water: Jesus saith unto her, Give me to drink.Joh 4:8(For his disciples were gone away unto the city to buy meat.)Joh 4:9Then saith the woman of Samaria unto him, How is it that thou, being a Jew, askest drink of me, which am a woman of Samaria? for the Jews have no dealings with the Samaritans.

Mistaken identity! now quote Pontious Pilate. "For "jews" have no dealings with samaratins" But Jesus did, why? because He wasn't a jew, and this is exactly what the Bible is telling us...How does Jesus answer? Does He confirm that He is one of these nasty, decieving little "jews"? Does He? No He says that He is the Messiah! 'I am Messiah' , that is what Jesus says, and the woman says and this is so relevant to today;

"Our fathers worshipped in this mountain; and ye say (still mistaking Jesus for a "jew") that in Jerusalem is the place where men ought to worship." (That is what the edomite "jews" were telling the Samaratins so they could get money off them at the temple which they controlled, I ask you, did Jesus say this, that people should only pray at Jerusalem, if you think that than you can call Jesus a "jew", but He did not say that, Jesus said to go pray in your closet, you can pray anywhere! Only the "Jews" said you must pray at Jerusalem!)

 

[Thaddaeus]

Where does Peter say he is a "jew"? He does not say that! Peter says that he is not a "jew", just because you highlight the word "jew" in a sentence said by Peter does not make Peter a "jew", can't you comprehend the words? Are you so brainwashed into worshipping Christ killers that you have lost all faculty to reason! It's like if I say to someone; 'Ye know how these 'judeochristians' only worship the 'jew nation'; but God has shown me that I should not worship the flase jew nation'...Now read what you wrote again, Peter does not say he ia a jew, but rather he is not like the 'jews'!!!!!



"I am a subject of Judea", like if I ask you to state your name and address, does that mean that your geographical location is the same as your family name! Paul says "I am a man which am a Ioudaios (in the sense of a country); Judean"...You notice that Paul is speaking to the guard, Paul is not giving his family history, he is just telling the guard where he is geographically from!!!!




Mistaken identity! now quote Pontious Pilate. "For "jews" have no dealings with samaratins" But Jesus did, why? because He wasn't a jew, and this is exactly what the Bible is telling us...How does Jesus answer? Does He confirm that He is one of these nasty, decieving little "jews"? Does He? No He says that He is the Messiah! 'I am Messiah' , that is what Jesus says, and the woman says and this is so relevant to today;

"Our fathers worshipped in this mountain; and ye say (still mistaking Jesus for a "jew") that in Jerusalem is the place where men ought to worship." (That is what the edomite "jews" were telling the Samaratins so they could get money off them at the temple which they controlled, I ask you, did Jesus say this, that people should only pray at Jerusalem, if you think that than you can call Jesus a "jew", but He did not say that, Jesus said to go pray in your closet, you can pray anywhere! Only the "Jews" said you must pray at Jerusalem!)

ok I am done!!! don't believe scriptures don't matter, I have showed you the truth, I have done my part and you have done yours so go in peace brother through Christ, if you claim to be a Christian, that is?

 

[watchmen]

ok I am done!!! don't believe scriptures don't matter, I have showed you the truth, I have done my part and you have done yours so go in peace brother through Christ, if you claim to be a Christian, that is?

This is a joke, a pretribber telling someone else they do not believe scripture. The plain common since meaning of scripture is that Christ returns after the tribulation and resurrects the dead in Christ and rapture those that are alive and remain. And for you to infer that postribbers are not christian is as insulting as one can get.

 

[watchmen]

This has been a very enlightening thread. I've not heard anyone say that they don't believe in pre/mid or post-trib rapture. Despite all three being brand spanking new.

Not to credit the pre-tribbers but atleast in regards to the rapture theology, the pre-tribbers were the first to hit the scene. The mid/post folks didn't show up until quite recently.

The rest of your post was pretty good however this part is way off. Jesus taught post trib rapture, Paul taught it, and John taught it. Google Historical premillennialism, the whole of the first centery church believed it. You must understand what the teaching of the post trib rapture is before you claim it wasn't taught. The teaching of the first century church is this....That Jesus will return at the end of the Tribulation to set up His Millennial Kingdom. As He is returning He resurrects the just, translates the living saints into immortal bodies receiving both the dead in Christ and living saints into Himself, restores the Jews, and destroys the wicked by fire. The translation of the living is what is referred to as the post trib rapture. Now I understand that you do not like the term ''rapture'' but that does not mean the teaching of the post tribulation translation of the living saints/rapture is new or false.

 

[Ryan1976]

The rest of your post was pretty good however this part is way off. Jesus taught post trib rapture, Paul taught it, and John taught it. Google Historical premillennialism, the whole of the first centery church believed it. You must understand what the teaching of the post trib rapture is before you claim it wasn't taught. The teaching of the first century church is this....That Jesus will return at the end of the Tribulation to set up His Millennial Kingdom. As He is returning He resurrects the just, translates the living saints into immortal bodies receiving both the dead in Christ and living saints into Himself, restores the Jews, and destroys the wicked by fire. The translation of the living is what is referred to as the post trib rapture. Now I understand that you do not like the term ''rapture'' but that does not mean the teaching of the post tribulation translation of the living saints/rapture is new or false.

Yeah, I totally get that but still... rapture? Come on. Why even let Darby get a foot in the conversation?

But yeah, all the amillenial, premillenial stuff has a history. However, all the dispensational stuff lately and all the books and movies and.. are there rapture plush toys yet? I know there's a left-behind cartoon series for the little ones.

Seriously, it would further the cause to just drop rapture from the vocab it you're a post-tribber. I know, I know. Everyone is doing it.


But every time that word slips out your mouth just know that your average person pictures something like this:

... just say no.

God bless!

 

[MahogonySnail]

hahaha thats funny.

 

[Thaddaeus]

This is a joke, a pretribber telling someone else they do not believe scripture. The plain common since meaning of scripture is that Christ returns after the tribulation and resurrects the dead in Christ and rapture those that are alive and remain. And for you to infer that postribbers are not christian is as insulting as one can get.

there you go again added words to what i have said , I never said post tribber aren't Christians I have never heard cup of ruin ever say if he has confessed that Jesus Christ has came in the flesh it was directed to cup of ruin only. that's what we mean in english when we say you if I had meant all post tribbers I would had said YOU ALL!!!!!

 

[Cup-of-Ruin]

there you go again added words to what i have said , I never said post tribber aren't Christians I have never heard cup of ruin ever say if he has confessed that Jesus Christ has came in the flesh it was directed to cup of ruin only. that's what we mean in english when we say you if I had meant all post tribbers I would had said YOU ALL!!!!!

Oh well then you havn't been paying attention to what I have been posting.

You cannot have the Father if you do not have the Son.

There is no other God beside the one who came in the flesh as the man Jesus Christ, born of woman, He is the seed of the woman, that was prophecised to crush the head of the serpent, Adam believed in that which was to come, the faith in that which God has spoken and yet unseen is what it means to be a Christian, Adam was a Christian. Christianity is the only religion all others are apostate, they are corrupted by the lies of the devil, there is nothing in the universe that was not created by Christ and for Christ, Christ is eternal and before all things He existed as the Father and He are one. Anybody who has not recieved the glorious gift of the divine blood of Christ which He gave by His grace and through His faith we are saved, anybody who has not recieved this stands guilty before the Almighty, with no chance of pardon, there is no other way, to recieve life other than you be covered by the eternal manifest blood of Jesus Christ, not without the blood, can you come before the Lord, and there is only the sinless blood of His Christ that is deemed worthy to cover the human sin.

In His holy service.

 

[Elijah3]

God bless you, Starfield. Those predestined to be raptured will be raptured no matter what kind of rapture they believe in.

 

[watchmen]

God bless you, Starfield. Those predestined to be raptured will be raptured no matter what kind of rapture they believe in.

start a new thread ''who here beliives in calvinistic predestination''.

 

[Cup-of-Ruin]

ok I am done!!! don't believe scriptures don't matter, I have showed you the truth, I have done my part and you have done yours so go in peace brother through Christ, if you claim to be a Christian, that is?

May the good Lord open your eyes to the truth of His words!

 

[doubleedge]

9/11... HOLOCAUST... INQUISITIONS... & EVERY OTHER WAR ON EARTH... WERE INSIDE JOBS THAT WERE COSIGNED BY THE RICH & POWERFUL TO PRESERVE THEIR WEALTH & POWER!!! U'LL NEVER KNOW HOW MANY PEOPLE DIED IF U BELIEVE THE DEVILS LIES!!! ITS ALL POLITICS... LIKE THE REASON JESUS WAS HANDED OVER TO BE CRUCIFIED!!! POLITICS IS THE PRINCIPALITY!!!

 

[Thaddaeus]

May the good Lord open your eyes to the truth of His words!

He already has thank you even so come quiclky, Lord Jesus Jas 5:8Be ye also patient; stablish your hearts: for the coming of the Lord draweth nigh.

 

[trudy]

I don't believe in the "rapture" as many seem to believe, When Jesus comes every human being will see him. The world will end as we know it. there is no secret rapture and the world continues on. It will end righ t then and there all those who are not saved will die and remain on the ground - those that are saved will be in heaven judging those that are dead on the earth. After the thousand years. of which satan will be bound on the earth Jesus will come again with the new city, the dead will rise for judgement only ( I believe) it will be a while because they will plot with satan to overthrow or try to conquer the great city and then Jesus will show them their sins and God himself will be present and all will bow down and then they will be destroyed fire will come down from heaven and the earth which is a very large grave (hell) will burn and then the fire will go out. No one will burn forever. No one each will burn according to their deeds some will burn quickly someone will burn slowly all will be turned to ashes.

 

[trudy]

Also no one is in heaven or in hell except for the 23 elders and Moses, Enoch, Elijah no one else is in heaven no one has died and went to heaven or hell those that have died are still in the grave. Their breath of life went to God but it knows nothing. NOTHING.

 

[Baptistrw]

I don't believe in the "rapture" as many seem to believe, When Jesus comes every human being will see him. The world will end as we know it. there is no secret rapture and the world continues on. It will end righ t then and there all those who are not saved will die and remain on the ground - those that are saved will be in heaven judging those that are dead on the earth. After the thousand years. of which satan will be bound on the earth Jesus will come again with the new city, the dead will rise for judgement only ( I believe) it will be a while because they will plot with satan to overthrow or try to conquer the great city and then Jesus will show them their sins and God himself will be present and all will bow down and then they will be destroyed fire will come down from heaven and the earth which is a very large grave (hell) will burn and then the fire will go out. No one will burn forever. No one each will burn according to their deeds some will burn quickly someone will burn slowly all will be turned to ashes.

Show us scripture for your beliefs. Good luck.

 

[watchmen]

Show us scripture for your beliefs. Good luck.

It always trips me out when pretribbers of all people react this way. Their belief is as unbiblical and unprovable as any to ever penetrate the church.

 

[SwordOfFire]

watchmen


we have to know who the scripture is talking about before we can intrepet the true meaning of the scriptures.
most folks fails to recognize who these verses are talking about , " and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds from one end of heaven to the other."

the elect are not us Christains but rather the jews let me give you a verse to show this to be true, 2ti 2:10Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.
also we find :
Ro 11:25For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.Ro 11:26And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:Ro 11:27For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.Ro 11:28
As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.

see here concerning the Gospel. the jews were our enemies . but as far as they being the elect they were blessed for the father's sakeso when He gather's His elect He is gathering just the jews. most bible scholars will tell us that Matthew is written for the jews, that the gospel was intended for the Jews first. some say the first 14 chapters others say all of matthew was just for the jews. thus we have in order rev saying the Bride is already there through a Pre-trib, only because they are already there before the first resurrection see when the rapture takes place both living and the dead are raised. so it's not really a resurrection for that would be just dead people, then rev , tells us that the first resurrection is for the tribulation saints who have not taken the mark of the beast and then the rest of the dead which is matt. 24 is raised after the 1000 year reign.

Re 19:7Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.Re 19:8And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.

The Bride/the Church has already been judged at this time we know this by her having her clean white linen
Re 20:4
And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
Re 20:5But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.Re 20:6Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

This is the tribulations saints for they refused the mark of the beast. then we have the ones raised in matt 24

Re 20:5But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

So according to scriptures I will have to say
pre-trib

A VERY basic theological understanding of the elect, is that it is the Church.

 

[SwordOfFire]

Also, the idea of a pretribulation rapture has not, historically, been a doctrine that has been held by the Church. This idea is really only about 100 years old, maybe a little more.

 

[Thaddaeus]

A VERY basic theological understanding of the elect, is that it is the Church.

2ti 2:10Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.

the Church has aleady obtain salvation through Jesus Christ but paul says here that what he has suffered for was for the elect that they may obtain salvation "ALSO" the elect hasn't obtain salvation yet for they rejected Jesus as the Messiah. noway the Church can be the elect!!

Ro 11:28As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching THE ELECTion, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.
those elected are enemies of the gospel , show me from scriptures where the Chruch was ever the enemies of the gospel. if we are enemies of the Gospel we are not the Church