The rapture?

[john832]

Is the curch raptured to heaven or taken to a Place of Safety on earth?

Is there a type and antitype? In 68AD a voice was heard in the Temple "Let us remove hence" and the church migrated to Pella. When the invading Romans came into Jerusalem and destroyed the Temple, the church was already gone. They went to a "Place of Safety". This is a type for the end time church who will go their "Place of Safety". There has been much conjecture as to where it is. The Bible gives some strong hints but does not plainly say where, only that the church goes somewhere...

Rev 12:14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.
Rev 12:15 And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.
Rev 12:16 And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.
Rev 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

There is indication in verse 17 that some will not go. Either by choice or unpreparedness...

Luk 21:36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

There is a section on this flight...

Luk 17:26 And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man.

Notice this is not THE DAY but the dayS.

Luk 17:27 They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all.

The ark was Noah and his family's place of safety.

Luk 17:28 Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;
Luk 17:29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.

Zoar was Lot's place of safety.

In both of these cases it is physical protection that is granted. Now notice what is said about the end time...

Luk 17:30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

It will be the same type of circumstance, physical safety from physical destruction.

Luk 17:31 In that day, he which shall be upon the housetop, and his stuff in the house, let him not come down to take it away: and he that is in the field, let him likewise not return back.

If this were the return of Christ, why would one even think about going into the house and gathering up a change of underwear and a toothbrush? You would not. But if you were going to a desert place for 3-1/2 years, these amenities would look pretty important to you. Christ says leave it there and run for your life.

Luk 17:32 Remember Lot's wife.

What was it Lot's wife did? She looked back longingly for her way of life, her city and her circle of friends. She did not want to go.

Luk 17:33 Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it.

Why this emphasis on saving life? If one is converted, the question of eternal life is settled. It is obvious from the context we are speaking of saving human life.

Luk 17:34 I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left.
Luk 17:35 Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
Luk 17:36 Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

Reading Revelation about the Trumpet Plagues, does anyone think that at that time life will just be going on as always? This is speaking of the time just prior to the 3-1/2 years of Great Tribulation.

Luk 17:37 And they answered and said unto him, Where, Lord? And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together.

What body? The body of Christ, the church

 

[john832]

Added thought...

Dan 12:11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

1290 days yet the church is in the place of safety 1260 days...

Rev 12:14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.

What about the 30 day discrepancy? One thought is this...

1290 days...

Mat 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand

It is now time to "get out of Dodge" and flee to the Place of Safety. ..

Rev 12:14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.
Rev 12:15 And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.
Rev 12:16 And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.

Once the church is in the Place of Safety, something occurs at 1260 days that seals the Place of Safety. No one can enter including hostile armies. Remember this?

Luk 17:26 And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man.

Who shut the door?

Gen 7:16 And they that went in, went in male and female of all flesh, as God had commanded him: and the LORD shut him in.

As it was in the days of Noah...

 

[PlainWord]

Not for the Christian Church.

We will be delivered from the coming wrath.
Lk 21: 36. 1 Thess 1: 10. 1 Thess 5: 9.

The Wrath of God is NOT the Tribulation. The Tribulation is Satan's Deception. God's wrath and the wrath of the Lamb happen AFTER the Tribulation. Satan comes to deceive the Church. The Rapture doctrine is Satan's BIG deception so that when he comes the church will think he is Christ and worship Satan. Wake up people and stop listening to the Traditions of Man and the lies of Satan!!

We are told clearly that the Lord returns AFTER the Tribulation, AFTER Satan appears acting as Christ. Do not go out for the fake rapture or you will end up being deceived like so many. Have the patience and faith of the Saints. Wait for the real Messiah!!!

The 144,000 are sealed with the truth of God. The Great Multitude are deceived into worshiping Satan and are killed. That is why they are in heaven, thirsty, hungry, ashamed and crying.

The Gospel is the springs of living water isn't it??

John 4:10 NKJV
Jesus answered and said to her, "If you knew the gift of God, and who it is who says to you, 'Give Me a drink,' you would have asked Him, and He would have given you living water."


What does Satan do to the Gospel?? He twists it to deceive. He did it to Eve, tried to do it to Jesus and is doing it now to the Church.

10 Then the third angel sounded: And a great star fell from heaven (SATAN) and, burning like a torch, and it fell on a third of the rivers and on the springs of water (the Gospel).

11 The name of the star is Wormwood (RAPTURE DOCTRINE). A third of the waters became wormwood, and many men died from the water, because it was made bitter.

Satan takes God's truth and makes it sound better to man. There is your rapture doctrine!!

The below is the Great Multitude taken from Rev 7:

"These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

15 Therefore they are before the throne of God, and serve Him day and night in His temple. And He who sits on the throne will dwell among them.

16 They shall neither hunger anymore nor thirst anymore; the sun (SON) shall not strike them (ashamed), nor any heat;

17 for the Lamb who is in the midst of the throne will shepherd them and lead them to living fountains of waters. And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes."

This deceived group of Christians were hungry, thirsty, ashamed and crying. The Great Multitude did not listen to Jesus and instead followed the Traditions of Man and went out and worshiped the False Christ. They were killed as a result. The 144K were faithful and were not deceived. The 144K are the Elect from all over the world, Isaiah 65 confirms this:

12 Therefore I will number you for the sword, And you shall all bow down to the slaughter; Because, when I called, you did not answer; When I spoke, you did not hear, But did evil before My eyes, And chose that in which I do not delight."

13 Therefore thus says the Lord God: "Behold, My servants shall eat, But you shall be hungry; Behold, My servants shall drink, But you shall be thirsty; Behold, My servants shall rejoice, But you shall be ashamed;

14 Behold, My servants shall sing for joy of heart, But you shall cry for sorrow of heart, And wail for grief of spirit.

 

[LT]

but, hey, to each his own........... God bless

I get this interpretation by connecting Revelation with passages in Daniel, Ezekiel and Isaiah, Zech (14), Joel (3) , and putting the information in timeline form.

It is a Scripture based middle-ground between Historical Pre-millennialism and Dispensational Pre-millennialism, with the possibility of an Amillennial/fully spiritual fulfillment of the events.



I think that Dispensationalism has created a great form, and connection of the prophecies, but that it errs from Scripture on several points,
such as: pre-or mid- trib rapture,
the process of why we are no longer 'under the Law',
and heavily distinguishing between physical and spiritual Israel (Bible says there is one salvation).



PM if you want to discuss further. I am weary of debate form, and would rather just discuss, lol.

 

[LT]

The Wrath of God is NOT the Tribulation. The Tribulation is Satan's Deception. God's wrath and the wrath of the Lamb happen AFTER the Tribulation. Satan comes to deceive the Church.

This is a very good point!
God's wrath is called Judgement, not Tribulation.
The Day of the Lord is the day of God's wrath.

I don't agree that pre-trib is The Great Deception, because I don't think it's important enough of a topic.

 

[notuptome]

Was Noah or Lot taken to heaven??? Neither were. The church will NOT be taken to heaven either to escape the Persecution and testing of Satan.

Noah was in the ark because the whole world was going to be destroyed. Lot was outside the city and the whole city was destroyed. When Gods judgment falls on those who have risen up against Israel and committed great wickedness before the Lord it will be a great and terrible day for certain.

You cannot find the church in the tribulation but you can find Israel. Israel is restored when the tribulation ends.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[biscuit]

The Wrath of God is NOT the Tribulation. The Tribulation is Satan's Deception. God's wrath and the wrath of the Lamb happen AFTER the Tribulation. Satan comes to deceive the Church. The Rapture doctrine is Satan's BIG deception so that when he comes the church will think he is Christ and worship Satan. Wake up people and stop listening to the Traditions of Man and the lies of Satan!!

We are told clearly that the Lord returns AFTER the Tribulation, AFTER Satan appears acting as Christ. Do not go out for the fake rapture or you will end up being deceived like so many. Have the patience and faith of the Saints. Wait for the real Messiah!!!

The 144,000 are sealed with the truth of God. The Great Multitude are deceived into worshiping Satan and are killed. That is why they are in heaven, thirsty, hungry, ashamed and crying.

The Gospel is the springs of living water isn't it??

John 4:10 NKJV
Jesus answered and said to her, "If you knew the gift of God, and who it is who says to you, 'Give Me a drink,' you would have asked Him, and He would have given you living water."


What does Satan do to the Gospel?? He twists it to deceive. He did it to Eve, tried to do it to Jesus and is doing it now to the Church.

10 Then the third angel sounded: And a great star fell from heaven (SATAN) and, burning like a torch, and it fell on a third of the rivers and on the springs of water (the Gospel).

11 The name of the star is Wormwood (RAPTURE DOCTRINE). A third of the waters became wormwood, and many men died from the water, because it was made bitter.

Satan takes God's truth and makes it sound better to man. There is your rapture doctrine!!

The below is the Great Multitude taken from Rev 7:

"These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

15 Therefore they are before the throne of God, and serve Him day and night in His temple. And He who sits on the throne will dwell among them.

16 They shall neither hunger anymore nor thirst anymore; the sun (SON) shall not strike them (ashamed), nor any heat;

17 for the Lamb who is in the midst of the throne will shepherd them and lead them to living fountains of waters. And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes."

This deceived group of Christians were hungry, thirsty, ashamed and crying. The Great Multitude did not listen to Jesus and instead followed the Traditions of Man and went out and worshiped the False Christ. They were killed as a result. The 144K were faithful and were not deceived. The 144K are the Elect from all over the world, Isaiah 65 confirms this:

12 Therefore I will number you for the sword, And you shall all bow down to the slaughter; Because, when I called, you did not answer; When I spoke, you did not hear, But did evil before My eyes, And chose that in which I do not delight."

13 Therefore thus says the Lord God: "Behold, My servants shall eat, But you shall be hungry; Behold, My servants shall drink, But you shall be thirsty; Behold, My servants shall rejoice, But you shall be ashamed;

14 Behold, My servants shall sing for joy of heart, But you shall cry for sorrow of heart, And wail for grief of spirit.

You may get raptured when the time arrives but make sure you get your story right with Jesus when we are all judged. The Christians who get it right with the pre-millennial theory will likely be rewarded while those who chose to ridicule with other theories and are wrong will be dealt with and embarrassed. Revelation is pretty much written in chronological order except the 21 Judgments are repeated and overlapped twice in chapter 6-18.

 

[john832]

Noah was in the ark because the whole world was going to be destroyed. Lot was outside the city and the whole city was destroyed. When Gods judgment falls on those who have risen up against Israel and committed great wickedness before the Lord it will be a great and terrible day for certain.

You cannot find the church in the tribulation but you can find Israel. Israel is restored when the tribulation ends.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

I think you can...

Rev 12:14 But the woman was given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness to her place, where she is nourished for a time and times and half a time, from the presence of the serpent.
Rev 12:15 So the serpent spewed water out of his mouth like a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away by the flood.
Rev 12:16 But the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened its mouth and swallowed up the flood which the dragon had spewed out of his mouth.
Rev 12:17 And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to make war with the rest of her offspring, who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

If you think that those people of the State of Israel today have the testimony of Jesus Christ, I disagree.

 

[LT]

You may get raptured when the time arrives but make sure you get your story right with Jesus when we are all judged. The Christians who get it right with the pre-millennial theory will likely be rewarded while those who chose to ridicule with other theories and are wrong will be dealt with and embarrassed. Revelation is pretty much written in chronological order except the 21 Judgments are repeated and overlapped twice in chapter 6-18.

i highly doubt there will be any extra reward for having the right opinion on this, lol.

actions and faithfulness, good works and perseverance <--- these will be rewarded, not on whether or not you guessed the correct interpretation of the prophecies.

It will be obvious one way or the other when the time comes, and all Believers (regardless of whether their interpretation was correct) will be caught up, in due time, to be with the Lord.
It will be so clear, in fact, that all men will know what happened, from the ends of the earth. There will be no mistaking His Coming.

Our emphasis should be on Christ, and following Him.
It is good to be interested in these prophecies, but don't go so far as to think that reward is on the line, XD.

 

[JesusChica1991]

Revelation is written as a journal...the recording of the dream/vision as it happened in John's mind...In no place does Revelation say it will happen in that specific order..

 

[PlainWord]

Is the curch raptured to heaven or taken to a Place of Safety on earth?

Is there a type and antitype? In 68AD a voice was heard in the Temple "Let us remove hence" and the church migrated to Pella. When the invading Romans came into Jerusalem and destroyed the Temple, the church was already gone. They went to a "Place of Safety". This is a type for the end time church who will go their "Place of Safety". There has been much conjecture as to where it is. The Bible gives some strong hints but does not plainly say where, only that the church goes somewhere...

Rev 12:14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.
Rev 12:15 And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.
Rev 12:16 And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.
Rev 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

There is indication in verse 17 that some will not go. Either by choice or unpreparedness...

Luk 21:36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

There is a section on this flight...

Luk 17:26 And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man.

Notice this is not THE DAY but the dayS.

Luk 17:27 They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all.

The ark was Noah and his family's place of safety.

Luk 17:28 Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;
Luk 17:29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.

Zoar was Lot's place of safety.

In both of these cases it is physical protection that is granted. Now notice what is said about the end time...

Luk 17:30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

It will be the same type of circumstance, physical safety from physical destruction.

Luk 17:31 In that day, he which shall be upon the housetop, and his stuff in the house, let him not come down to take it away: and he that is in the field, let him likewise not return back.

If this were the return of Christ, why would one even think about going into the house and gathering up a change of underwear and a toothbrush? You would not. But if you were going to a desert place for 3-1/2 years, these amenities would look pretty important to you. Christ says leave it there and run for your life.

Luk 17:32 Remember Lot's wife.

What was it Lot's wife did? She looked back longingly for her way of life, her city and her circle of friends. She did not want to go.

Luk 17:33 Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it.

Why this emphasis on saving life? If one is converted, the question of eternal life is settled. It is obvious from the context we are speaking of saving human life.

Luk 17:34 I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left.
Luk 17:35 Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
Luk 17:36 Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

Reading Revelation about the Trumpet Plagues, does anyone think that at that time life will just be going on as always? This is speaking of the time just prior to the 3-1/2 years of Great Tribulation.

Luk 17:37 And they answered and said unto him, Where, Lord? And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together.

What body? The body of Christ, the church

Don't forget, we've had nearly 2,000 years of church history. Just what exactly does Christ consider His church today is anyone's guess. 1/3 of the world considers themselves Christian but are they all part of the "church?"

From my reading of the scriptures, it is clear a vast majority of Christians will be deceived and will follow the AntiChrist, not because they are evil, but because they are fooled into thinking the False Christ is real. Those who believe in a Pre-Trib Rapture are expecting the real Christ to appear first even though Jesus, Paul and John make very clear that Jesus returns AFTER the false Christ appears.

There will be a slaughter of Christians during Satan's Great Tribulation. This is clear from Rev 7. Paul confirms that these people will die because they believed the lie. What lie? The Rapture lie of course. What doctrine runs rampant through the church today that teaches the Messiah returns before the false Christ?

9 The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, 10 and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

Again, in 31 of 32 places where the word "Tribulation" is found in the Bible, it discusses persecution and trials or testing of believers by the wicked. There cannot be a Great Tribulation without a great number of Christians on earth. If there was a Rapture - all Christians would be gone.

The Rapture Doctrine teaches that a ton of people come to Christ after seeing the Rapture and these so-called "Tribulation Era Saints" are the ones to suffer during the Great Tribulation. The problem with that notion is nowhere is such a thing taught or found in the Bible. It is another Tradition of Man.

As for the church being protected from Satan's Temptation as False Christ - I don't see it. The only way to be protected is to know the Truth and have the Patience and faith of the Saints. Wait for the true Messiah and don't go out after the False Christ(s). The 144K are sealed in their foreheads with the truth. They are protected and they make it through the Great Tribulation. We know this because they are standing on Zion with Christ (Rev 14) whereas the Great Multitude are dead and in heaven and they clearly came out of the Great Tribulation (Rev 7).

 

[jb]

You cannot find the church in the tribulation...

For the cause of Christ
Roger

"Which Scripture shall I cherry pick now!"

Thinks Roger...

 

[prove-all]

yes hidden in a place safty like happened before


i so not like when they say half the world disapears


Luk 17:34

man will be harvested at end of ages.

half the church lives
half of man lives

other half of all man will be no more

 

[prove-all]

"You cannot find the church in the tribulation..."


thats because there hidden safely right before it happens,

anyone not spirit filled go into tribulation

and if they want to be priesthood after that

they have to be myrted to get that position

 

[notuptome]

I think you can...

Rev 12:14 But the woman was given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness to her place, where she is nourished for a time and times and half a time, from the presence of the serpent.
Rev 12:15 So the serpent spewed water out of his mouth like a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away by the flood.
Rev 12:16 But the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened its mouth and swallowed up the flood which the dragon had spewed out of his mouth.
Rev 12:17 And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to make war with the rest of her offspring, who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

If you think that those people of the State of Israel today have the testimony of Jesus Christ, I disagree.

They will during the tribulation time. God is going to raise up 144,000 Jews to preach the gospel during the tribulation. With the church gone God is going to graft in the branch that was broken off to allow the Gentiles to have their time.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[alan68]

No one who teaches the pre-trib rapture believes that Jesus will come down to earth and proclaim, "I am the Lord Jesus, here for the rapture! All who are ready to blast off for heaven, follow me!" If that happens, I will know it is a deception, and so will anyone who follows Scripture, which speaks of meeting the Lord IN THE AIR. Personally, I think Satan has more to gain by deceiving people into thinking there is no pre-trip rapture or no rapture at all, if there actually is. I mean, if you are unsaved and living only for yourself, how likely are you to be persuaded to consider the things of God if you hear, "Reject the Lord, and you shall endure 7 years of torment during the Great Tribulaton! Come to Christ and be saved, and...you'll STILL have to endure 7 years of torment!" This will, it seems to me, prevent a good number of lost souls from even considering giving their lives to Christ, which would make Satan jump for joy.
I am not as certain of the pre-trib rapture as I am of my own salvation in Christ. I was taught this doctrine all through my childhood, and I still lean toward it, even if it's no longer a "deal breaker" for me. I think the Bible is purposefully vague on the end times because our focus as Christians should be on the here and now, and all that needs to be done before the Lord does in fact return.

 

[PlainWord]

"You cannot find the church in the tribulation..."


thats because there hidden safely right before it happens,

anyone not spirit filled go into tribulation

and if they want to be priesthood after that

they have to be myrted to get that position

Conjecture and more Traditions of Men.

Again, Great Tribulation = Temptation of Satan acting as Christ

Great Tribulation does not = Wrath of God

We are told repeatedly that we (the church) will suffer Tribulation and persecution for our faith. Here are some examples:

Matthew 24:9 NKJV

Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and kill you, and you will be hated by all nations for My name's sake.

John 16:33 NKJV

These things I have spoken to you, that in Me you may have peace. In the world you will have tribulation; but be of good cheer, I have overcome the world."

Romans 5:3 NKJV

And not only that, but we also glory in tribulations, knowing that tribulation produces perseverance;

Romans 12:12 NKJV

rejoicing in hope, patient in tribulation, continuing steadfastly in prayer;

2 Timothy 3:12 NKJV

Yes, and all who desire to live godly in Christ Jesus will suffer persecution.

Acts 14:22 NKJV

strengthening the souls of the disciples, exhorting them to continue in the faith, and saying, "We must through many tribulations enter the kingdom of God."

This has been the case for the past 2,000 years!! We are told we must endure Tribulations before entering the Kingdom of God. Why all of a sudden does the Church at the end of the age skip Tribulation and go straight to heaven? Where is this teaching??? Why would God allow the Bride of Christ to suffer Tribulation all these years but at the final and worst Satanic Tribulation and Persecution the earth has ever seen take the Church away to heaven? Why the 180 and where is this reversal doctrine found??? ANYONE??? Who taught the the church of the final days is spared??

This sure sounds like the workings of Satan to me. He completely reversed the teaching. Now being a part of the church you avoid Tribulation. WOW. Does anybody actually read the Bible anymore or are we as a church listening to the Traditions of Man and not the CLEAR TEACHING of our FATHER??

 

[PlainWord]

They will during the tribulation time. God is going to raise up 144,000 Jews to preach the gospel during the tribulation. With the church gone God is going to graft in the branch that was broken off to allow the Gentiles to have their time.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Not Jews. Jews are from the Tribe of Judah and Benjamin. 12,000 descendants from each of the 12 former Tribes of Israel and Judah. The 10 northern tribes of Israel went over the Caucasus Mountains some 2,500 years ago after the days of Babylon. Those of us who are Caucasian got our name from this. They settled Europe, the UK and later America.

These 144K are sealed with the knowledge of the truth concerning the Lord's return and the timing thereof. These Elect are also called Firstfruits redeemed from MEN. There can be no rapture before the Tribulation because the mere presence of the 144K firstfruits defeats such a doctrine. You cannot have anyone redeemed before the firstfruits!!!

Paul teaches this clearly and so does John.

1 Cor 15:

23 But each one in his own order: Christ, the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ's at His coming.

Rev 14:4:

These are the ones who follow the Lamb wherever He goes. These were redeemed from among men, being firstfruits to God and to the Lamb.

Bye, Bye Pre-Trib Rapture Doctrine. Nice Try Satan

 

[saved1975]

The Wrath of God is NOT the Tribulation. The Tribulation is Satan's Deception. God's wrath and the wrath of the Lamb happen AFTER the Tribulation. Satan comes to deceive the Church. The Rapture doctrine is Satan's BIG deception so that when he comes the church will think he is Christ and worship Satan. Wake up people and stop listening to the Traditions of Man and the lies of Satan!!

We are told clearly that the Lord returns AFTER the Tribulation, AFTER Satan appears acting as Christ. Do not go out for the fake rapture or you will end up being deceived like so many. Have the patience and faith of the Saints. Wait for the real Messiah!!!

The 144,000 are sealed with the truth of God. The Great Multitude are deceived into worshiping Satan and are killed. That is why they are in heaven, thirsty, hungry, ashamed and crying.

The Gospel is the springs of living water isn't it??

John 4:10 NKJV
Jesus answered and said to her, "If you knew the gift of God, and who it is who says to you, 'Give Me a drink,' you would have asked Him, and He would have given you living water."


What does Satan do to the Gospel?? He twists it to deceive. He did it to Eve, tried to do it to Jesus and is doing it now to the Church.

10 Then the third angel sounded: And a great star fell from heaven (SATAN) and, burning like a torch, and it fell on a third of the rivers and on the springs of water (the Gospel).

11 The name of the star is Wormwood (RAPTURE DOCTRINE). A third of the waters became wormwood, and many men died from the water, because it was made bitter.

Satan takes God's truth and makes it sound better to man. There is your rapture doctrine!!

The below is the Great Multitude taken from Rev 7:

"These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

15 Therefore they are before the throne of God, and serve Him day and night in His temple. And He who sits on the throne will dwell among them.

16 They shall neither hunger anymore nor thirst anymore; the sun (SON) shall not strike them (ashamed), nor any heat;

17 for the Lamb who is in the midst of the throne will shepherd them and lead them to living fountains of waters. And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes."

This deceived group of Christians were hungry, thirsty, ashamed and crying. The Great Multitude did not listen to Jesus and instead followed the Traditions of Man and went out and worshiped the False Christ. They were killed as a result. The 144K were faithful and were not deceived. The 144K are the Elect from all over the world, Isaiah 65 confirms this:

12 Therefore I will number you for the sword, And you shall all bow down to the slaughter; Because, when I called, you did not answer; When I spoke, you did not hear, But did evil before My eyes, And chose that in which I do not delight."

13 Therefore thus says the Lord God: "Behold, My servants shall eat, But you shall be hungry; Behold, My servants shall drink, But you shall be thirsty; Behold, My servants shall rejoice, But you shall be ashamed;

14 Behold, My servants shall sing for joy of heart, But you shall cry for sorrow of heart, And wail for grief of spirit.

We will be delivered from the coming wrath.
Lk 21: 36. 1 Thess 1: 10. 1 Thess 5: 9.

There is a wrath of satan, Rev 12: 12.
And the wrath of God, Rev 6: 17.

Those in Revelation 7: 9--15, Are those who get saved during the tribulation, v14.
We aren't appointed to wrath.

 

[jb]

We will be delivered from the coming wrath.
Lk 21: 36. 1 Thess 1: 10. 1 Thess 5: 9.

There is a wrath of satan, Rev 12: 12.
And the wrath of God, Rev 6: 17.

Those in Revelation 7: 9--15, Are those who get saved during the tribulation, v14.
We aren't appointed to wrath.

Doth thou suffer from "The Roger Syndrome" as well sir?

(See Post #52)