The real thoughts of losing salvation....

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tourist

Senior Member
Mar 13, 2014
31,326
9,404
113
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Florida
#21
The question is valid but the presentation precludes any reasonable discussion. Well most subjects here have no prospect of reasonable discussion. Goodness.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
I would settle for the prospect of reasonable dissension.
 

RickStudies

Active member
Sep 10, 2019
782
222
43
#22
Too bad. I would list verses with salvation spoken about as something to be coming in the future. I have already done it, so I am discouraged to post them, I will just post two, you can look up the cross references on biblehub, surely, or do a quick search IF you are genuinely wondering. Reason for my hesitation: You are most likely just playing dumb. Salvation is spoken of as present, past and future in the Bible, and even the "Jesus paid it all, so I can sin some more" crowd agrees with that statement.

Hebrews 9:28 so also Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many; and He will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who eagerly await Him.
Jude 1:21 keep yourselves in the love of God, waiting for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ that leads to eternal life.
Your post is good but he isn`t interested in making a serious attempt to refute if he is even sharp enough to give it a good go. He is saving you time by posting trash to the board.
 

TooFastTurtle

Active member
Apr 10, 2019
460
247
43
#23
Actually it’s too bad for you pussycat. I actually couldn’t care less what you think regarding any impracticalities you think you perceive regarding God’s grace. I was simply responding to an asinine post.

I have the complete and irrevocable gift of God’s grace upon me now and forever. So does everyone who puts their faith in the fullness of Christ’s sacrifice, death and Resurrection. Do I make myself clear? If not, too bad.
This is what happens when you got nothing.

Read the parables of Jesus. No such thing as grace that can't be taken away, thats a theological fairytale. Jesus says if you dont forgive others, God won't forgive you. How does that work with God's grace upon me now and forever? See OSAS its just a bunch of cool catchphrases and memes. We have all heard it a thousand times, many of them. When they get dealt with biblically, we see the meltdown that was Lightskin's post here, just nothing but insults and empty babble.

Its ok bro. I forgive you. I will put you on ignore though, since judging by this post, nothing of value will be coming from you any time soon. I would say repent, but in the OSAS scheme of things, why should you? I hope God opens your eyes to see the truth. Hope your conscience isnt seared yet from sitting under that teaching.
 

Guojing

Well-known member
Jan 12, 2019
4,235
730
113
#24
Hebrews 6:4 is a challenge. Here`s the thing, the people the writer of Hebrews is talking about had recieved a special and powerful annointing of the Holy Spirit.

4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,

Then they fell away.

6 If they shall fall away,

In the Bible days "falling away" means to deny Christ and completely abandon belief in the church.

These people commited the unpardonable sin.

It`s a different situation then some someone who`s fallen back into sin and just needs to be renewed in the Lord.

Mind you I am not addressing the can you lose salvation issue. I`m addressing the passage you are tagging to it.
If you are indeed beginning to embrace dispensationalism, there is a straightforward way to understand this Hebrews passage.

The Holy Spirit deliberately placed the books of Hebrews to Rev after Paul's epistles of Romans to Philemon.

Romans-Philemon is church doctrine for the Body of Christ NOW under the grace dispensation. But the BOC will be raptured before the world face the Great Tribulation.

During the Tribulation, the grace dispensation would have ended and the world will once again be under the gospel of the kingdom, which requires faith and works to be saved. Hebrews-Revelations will cover the doctrine required under that gospel.

So if someone believes in Jesus then, but still take the mark of the beast in the end, he would have fallen away, and lost his salvation.
 

Noose

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2016
5,096
932
113
#25
Too bad. I would list verses with salvation spoken about as something to be coming in the future. I have already done it, so I am discouraged to post them, I will just post two, you can look up the cross references on biblehub, surely, or do a quick search IF you are genuinely wondering. Reason for my hesitation: You are most likely just playing dumb. Salvation is spoken of as present, past and future in the Bible, and even the "Jesus paid it all, so I can sin some more" crowd agrees with that statement.

Hebrews 9:28 so also Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many; and He will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who eagerly await Him.
Jude 1:21 keep yourselves in the love of God, waiting for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ that leads to eternal life.
I want to add one more.

1 Peter 1:3Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! In his great mercy he has given us new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4and into an inheritance that can never perish, spoil or fade. This inheritance is kept in heaven for you, 5who through faith are shielded by God’s power until the coming of the salvation that is ready to be revealed in the last time.

What people posses now is hope of the inheritance.
 

Sudakar

Active member
Sep 14, 2019
816
32
28
#26
I have an issue with this,

John the apostle wrote in his second people that people who claimed to have been saved, and now are non believers, never were believers in the first place. For as john said “if they were of us hey never would have departed”

So if these people lost salvation because they returned to law (fell to unbelief thus becoming anti-Christ) then john lied. Or if john was true, then the author of hebrews lied, either way we have a contradiction, which renders scripture untrustworthy


Any non believer who comes to a body of believers, hears the word, and is blessed by association with those believers have tasted the hs, and been enlightened, it does. Ot mean they ever became believers,

Truth is these people always trusted the law. They tried this new christian thing out, and decided they could find no real power in it. So they returned to what they always trusted, the law.

Once you do this, you will never come back, because you already rejected it outright, thats why they will never be renewed, because they tasted, said it was not for them, and went back, you do not try something twice, when your faith is strengthened by returning to it, their faith in the law was strengthened when they returned,
Salvation is being freed from the law. Romans7:6; Galatians 4:4,5. Once saved, one can never lose it. The apparent losing is written to those who haven't yet been fired from the law.
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
20,349
9,018
113
54
#27
Salvation is not probation.
Eternal life is not temporary life.
Jesus is the door. He is not a revolving door.
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
14,316
2,207
113
#28
This is what happens when you got nothing.

Read the parables of Jesus. No such thing as grace that can't be taken away, thats a theological fairytale. Jesus says if you dont forgive others, God won't forgive you. How does that work with God's grace upon me now and forever? See OSAS its just a bunch of cool catchphrases and memes. We have all heard it a thousand times, many of them. When they get dealt with biblically, we see the meltdown that was Lightskin's post here, just nothing but insults and empty babble.

Its ok bro. I forgive you. I will put you on ignore though, since judging by this post, nothing of value will be coming from you any time soon. I would say repent, but in the OSAS scheme of things, why should you? I hope God opens your eyes to see the truth. Hope your conscience isnt seared yet from sitting under that teaching.
Parables are for those whom the Holy Spirit has given understanding. Parables are not for unsaved souls, they cannot understand them. Those who labor under the false perception that they can merit anything from God are indeed pitiable.

Psalm 100 will clearly explain that God created us. We did not create ourselves. We do not have authority over God but God has absolute authority over us.

God has promised that those who believe upon Christ will be forgiven and inherit eternal life. It is ours only to submit to Gods will in the matter. We are already in submission to sin and only Christ can free us from sins condemnation.

If we have withheld complete submission to Christ when we asked Him to save us are we really saved? Are we trusting in Christ or in ourselves?

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
3,782
445
83
#29
Nobody is actually saved yet fully, our body is still in bondage to corruption for one. Salvation is in Christ, the reason the Bible talks about salvation in the present sometimes (not always) like ye HAVE eternal life, is because these people are abiding in Christ.

Eternal life is in Christ (John 15) and those who abide in Him, have eternal life. The ones who do not abide in Christ do not have eternal life.

That is why the Bible also speaks of eternal life in the future tense (often overlooked in churches today). "In the HOPE OF eternal life".

Hebrews 3:14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;

This is the case for every OSAS proof-text, you look around the context and look look! There is the condition for it. That is a great exercise I wish everyone would do, go read all the proof-texts for OSAS and then look around the context, surrounding chapters and verses and it will quickly reveal the truth of the matter. (Unless you got itching ears and don't want to hear it, that is)

One example:

Colossians 1:20-23
And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.
And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled
In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:
If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;


See there, it says reconciled all things unto himself, we have been reconciled now (PAST TENSE) therefore its a done deal! Once born again you cant be unborn again! DUH! Or are you saying God is too weak to save you? You need to be a co-savior? We know all the arguments, dont you worry! But then the next verse hits, IF ye continue in the faith.

The same thing with John 10:27. The sheep are supposed to FOLLOW HIM. If that is what the OSAS people preached, I would agree with them. AMEN! Sheep shall never perish and Jesus gives them eternal life, and they follow Him! Nothing shall take them.
1 Col 1:20-23, and now HATH HE RECONCILED, past tense. This reconciling took place by his death on the cross and John 6:38 says that he will not lose even one of those that he died for, or do you interpret that differently? God refers to his born again children as SHEEP and those that are not as GOATS. If Jesus says his sheep follow him, then his sheep do, indeed, follow him. Jesus does not lie. You seem to be so headstrong in trying to disprove OSAS that you purposefully misinterpret the scriptures.
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
3,782
445
83
#30
Parables are for those whom the Holy Spirit has given understanding. Parables are not for unsaved souls, they cannot understand them. Those who labor under the false perception that they can merit anything from God are indeed pitiable.

Psalm 100 will clearly explain that God created us. We did not create ourselves. We do not have authority over God but God has absolute authority over us.

God has promised that those who believe upon Christ will be forgiven and inherit eternal life. It is ours only to submit to Gods will in the matter. We are already in submission to sin and only Christ can free us from sins condemnation.

If we have withheld complete submission to Christ when we asked Him to save us are we really saved? Are we trusting in Christ or in ourselves?

For the cause of Christ
Roger
By God's foreknowledge he saw that no one would submit to his will, no, not one, Psalms 53:2. Was Jesus's sacrifice on the cross to God, for God's acceptance? Or was it to man, for man's acceptance? If I am not mistaken, it was to God, for man, not to man, for God. Did Jesus not say in John 6:38 that everyone that he died for he would not lose even one and he would raise them all up at the last day?
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
3,782
445
83
#31
Too bad. I would list verses with salvation spoken about as something to be coming in the future. I have already done it, so I am discouraged to post them, I will just post two, you can look up the cross references on biblehub, surely, or do a quick search IF you are genuinely wondering. Reason for my hesitation: You are most likely just playing dumb. Salvation is spoken of as present, past and future in the Bible, and even the "Jesus paid it all, so I can sin some more" crowd agrees with that statement.

Hebrews 9:28 so also Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many; and He will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who eagerly await Him.
Jude 1:21 keep yourselves in the love of God, waiting for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ that leads to eternal life.
Yes Jesus will return at the last day to gather his elect and take them home, which is the last step in the adoption procedure. But God choose them in Eph 1 and gave them to his son to pay the adoption price, which he did on the cross.
 

Josefnospam

Senior Member
May 29, 2014
312
48
28
#33
the Record.....There are three that bear record in heaven 1 john 1:7
This is the record God has given us eternal life and this life is in his son. 1 John 1:11
That yhou may know you have eternal life and believe on the name of the son of God 1 John 1:13
I believe God thru his son and know I have eternal life which cannot be lost by any mans actions
Eternal life is thru Christ alone. You either believe or you do not. The discusion and debate about losing the life is pointless and not profitable for those who have been given life thru our Savior Jesus Christ. hope to see you there.
 

MattforJesus

Senior Member
Apr 15, 2017
2,523
492
83
#34
i ask nicely: what about hebrews 6:4-6? can you get salvation back if you lose it?
There is 2 situations concerning a person falling away.

1.

2Pe 2:20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
2Pe 2:21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
2Pe 2:22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.

These people repented of their sins, had the knowledge of Jesus Christ, and knew the way of righteousness, but they went back to sinning and enjoying sin.

But there is repentance in this case, and being right with God again, for all sin can be forgiven, but we cannot hold unto sin and believe we are alright with God.

Example.

Rom 11:20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
Rom 11:21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
Rom 11:22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

Heb 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth(hold unto sin), there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
Heb 10:27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

2.

Heb 6:1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,
Heb 6:2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.

Heb 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
Heb 6:5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
Heb 6:6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

These people left the truth of the Bible, and believed an alternate reality whether believed in Jesus in another way other than Lord and Savior, believed another religion, or became an atheist.

There is no coming back after this for God will not allow them be saved again once they abandon the truth, for they have to go through all the steps of being saved again, having faith, confessing Christ, repenting of sins.

Which they can do those things if they want but God will not allow them to receive the Spirit again so they cannot be saved.

Example.

1Ti 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
1Ti 4:2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
1Ti 4:3 Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.
1Ti 4:4 For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving:
1Ti 4:5 For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.

Some shall depart from the faith and go by the new age movement interpretation of the Bible which is based on the occult, and evolution, and people can still evolve, and Jesus is not Lord and Savior, but a good teacher and love, and evolved to be an ascended master and avatar, and do not acknowledge a personal God, but honor the God of forces, or the power of nature as their higher power, the evolutionary process.

These people left the truth of the Bible, for an alternate reality of the Bible, and abandoned the God of Israel, and Jesus as Lord and Savior.

They cannot be saved again for when they believed the new age movement, and abandoned the truth they forfeited faith, repentance, and confessing Christ, and God will not let them return again.

But in the case of sinning and being able to repent, every time we sin we forfeit repentance until we repent of the sin and get rid of it.

If we sin we can be forgiven, but if we abandon the truth of God and Jesus and believe an alternate reality there is no coming back.

2Ti 3:4 lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
2Ti 3:5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
2Ti 3:6 For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts,
2Ti 3:7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

These people were not saved in the first place for they had the improper understanding of repenting, and held unto the flesh and sin and believed they were right with God, which they would repent but not let go of the flesh.

They are ever learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.