The Reason You are Told that God No Longer Speaks.

[lenna]

Just holding people accountable for their words. Nothing more.

It isn't your job. From what I have seen, it appears most people would enjoy you actually doing that very thing. However, that does not change the fact you just tried to make light of what I said. What I said regarding all denominations is absolutely true.

The whole thing reminds me of people doing what is right in their own eyes. Of course you wouldn't know anything about that, right?

 

[crossnote]

Thanks crossnote for taking the time to answer this with scripture.

None of that promises that we can enter his presence at will. It says we have access to him. it says we can draw near. Like I said, we used to say to the Lord, "we come before you Lord" not requiring Him to grant us his presence which is not the same thing. We come. Not He comes at our demand or approach.

It is not of great consequence except we are setting up believers to expect God shows up at their calling. Instead of the scripure that says,

"When you said to me "seek my face" my heart said to thee, O Lord, your face will I seek" we teach,
"when I said to you, O Lord, I am coming into your presence now, your heart said to me, "I come as expected."

I am only sorry because I have known the real presence of the Lord where He came and I was neither expecting it nor did I boldly come. He decided to grant me audience as a Sovereign and I was marked by the interview and changed forever. It was most remarkable and none of it was from me. This is what I would wish for my brethren and am firmly convinced that if his children think they can more or less expect Him to show up at their desire, He will not do so out of love for them. IF they are satisfied imaging they are before the throne, then that is all they will get is my view.

There is a difference between us coming to Him (which we are exhorted often to do) and Him coming to us (in rare visitations). I was referring to the former in faith (without sight or imaginations).

Hebrews 4:15-16 NKJV
[15] For we do not have a High Priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but was in all points tempted as we are, yet without sin. [16] Let us therefore come boldly to the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy and find grace to help in time of need.

 

[ScottyPchristian]

How does this fit in with your understanding that God makes us obedient when He regenerates us? If future sins are already forgiven, how can God be regenerating us? God who is perfect is supposed to be doing the work of regenerating us in your view and yet you admit that we will continue to sin in the future. Is God unable to unwilling to regenerate us such that sin is not such an easy entered into choice?
If we merely fall into sin unwittingly, then it is not our fault. It was an accident right? Nothing to forgive.

I ask these questions because I think the idea that are automatically changed in our sleep as it were is not the biblical standard, not what happens in real life, and it leads to passively letting sin continue unabaited in our lives. We are not taught to struggle against sin but accept these wrongs we do to other people God has already forgiven so no big deal.

Do you feel the same about those who sin against you? That they are already forgiven before they did the wrong deed? Does it help you to tell yourself that they unwittingly did that wrong against you?

The work of regeneration is a life long process, so we sin less and less as we are being sanctified. Our aim is to be like Christ, but we will never attain holiness while we live in corrupt bodies.
God knows that we will continue to sin every day of our lives, that's why He gave us the gift of repentance.

You will never find any saved person in the Bible or in history up to this day who didn't sin every single day, so we can see right of the bat that it's impossible. The Pharisees tried really hard, but they failed miserably and so will everyone else who tries to live a sinless life.

God is the One who draws those He saves to Himself, and nobody knows the moment of regeneration. God is the one who brings us to repentance and He continues to work on our hearts, but this work takes time. We don't just wake up as mature Christians, the day after we are regenerated. We still have to deal with the old man, the Devil and the world every single day so we won't win every battle.

I wasn't saying that we give ourselves over to sin, because we know we have forgiveness for all future sins. It's actually the opposite, I was merely pointing out the fact that we won't win every battle against our old nature, the Devil and the world. These three enemies will get the better of us, at times. So we won't win every battle, because we might forget to put on the whole armor of God or we could be seduced by while our guard is down.

I know these things first hand, since I'm the chief of sinners just as everyone one else is in their own experience.

 

[ScottyPchristian]

Is that anything besides salvation in your relationship with the Lord?

I'm not sure if I understand the question correctly, but I'd venture to say that we can't add anything period. Because, everything we have was given to us by God so in that sense we can't add anything but we can give Him back some of the love He pours out on us.

 

[ScottyPchristian]

That's the question. What does the word specifically say about the means God uses to regenerate man.

Jesus words in John 3:3-5 about the need for all to be born of water and Spirit are seen in Peter's instructions given on the day the NT church was born. Peter said everyone was to comply with water baptism and receiving the gift of the Holy Ghost. (Acts 2:38)
Notice the scripture below from Titus speaks directly to God saving us through washing AND renewing of the Holy Ghost. Again the connection between water baptism and receiving the gift of the Holy Ghost is seen.

Titus 3:4-5
But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared,
Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

That's all well and good, but Peter's instructions were given to saved people. The ordinance wasn't given as a legal requirement for salvation.
The washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Ghost are life long processes. It's not like we just take a dip in water and come our holy.

 

[DorothyMae]

I'm not sure if I understand the question correctly, but I'd venture to say that we can't add anything period. Because, everything we have was given to us by God so in that sense we can't add anything but we can give Him back some of the love He pours out on us.

Nice answer Scotty. It isn’t often taught but there is a lot more same as there is more to a marriage than a wedding. One doesn’t add to the wedding by coming deeper into relationship. Doesn’t make one “more“ married” either. But there is more than what we get out of salvation or what we get out of what comes after the wedding.

 

[ScottyPchristian]

We cannot be lacks and accept what someone else says the bible means. Ignorance will not be an excuse. All will be accountable to the truth found only in the word, Jesus said so Himself. (John 12:48)

Notice what Jude 3 states. It says in order to find the common salvation (meaning there is ONLY one truth) go back and see what was first delivered to the saints (apostles/disciples). Jesus said the NT message/instructions would begin in Jerusalem. (Luke 24:45-47) And, that is exactly where Peter gave the initial instructions, that included repentance and remission of sin, after the Holy Ghost was sent to dwell in people. It is found in Acts 2:38, and confirmed in others.


Jude 3
Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.

Luke 24:45-47
Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,
And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:
And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

I don't see how Luke 24:45-47 is relevant to us, Christ miraculously opened the understanding of His Disciples but they were chosen by Him for a specific purpose. He never gave that gift to anyone else.

Someone interpreted the scriptures to you and it sounded right so you went along with their view, just as everyone else does in their own experience. So we form our view according to what we have been taught by more learned men than ourselves. I've never heard of anyone who took a Bible and formed their own view, without being led or convinced by others.

If you gave the Bible to 20 people who had never heard the Gospel or read any Scriptures before, you can bet they'll all come back and give you 20 different interpretations.

The Bible is described as a book for self deluded, insecure fools by the smartest people in the world. You would be hard pressed to find a believer with an IQ score of more than 140, so understanding and believing scripture has absolutely nothing to do with how smart we think we are. And God won't judge anyone for a lack of understanding or misinterpreting scripture, He's not impressed with how smart we think we are.

God is the author and finisher or our salvation so nobody will be able boast about how smart they were, in cracking the correct code of scripture and winning the big prize. While others with a lower intellect go to hell.

 

[Wansvic]

This isn't a point of contention but I was taught that "the faith which was once delivered unto the saints" was the ability to face death (even torturous death) faithfully...as did Stephen...full of the Holy Ghost... which happens through [much] prayer in the spirit as Jude 17-21 suggests.

But, beloved, remember ye the words which were spoken before of the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ; [18] How that they told you there should be mockers in the last time, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts. [19] These be they who separate themselves, sensual, having not the Spirit. [20] But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost, [21] Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life. - Jude 1:17-21 KJV​

​

Love in Jesus,
Kelby

Interesting, I never heard that scripture explained that way. Yet another area for study.

I came to the conclusion I did because the verse speaks particularly of the common (#2839 = shared by all) salvation. (#4991 = rescue, saved) The first thing presented to, and expressed by, the saints (disciples) is obedience to God's plan of salvation. Afterward one's conduct as a born again believer would come into play.

Consider that the rebirth experience includes the need to receive the indwelt Holy Spirit from which one's prayer language flows. The scripture you mentioned references ones need to build themselves up by praying in the Holy Ghost.

 

[ScottyPchristian]

Nice answer Scotty. It isn’t often taught but there is a lot more same as there is more to a marriage than a wedding. One doesn’t add to the wedding by coming deeper into relationship. Doesn’t make one “more“ married” either. But there is more than what we get out of salvation or what we get out of what comes after the wedding.

I'm sure we all fall short and miss out on a lot of blessings, because we're too preoccupied with the things of this world. So we short change ourselves, due to a lack of faith.
God offers us so much, but we're to busy chasing all those things which are going to be burned up. I think I can safely include everyone in this indictment, because none of our faith amounts to a grain of mustard seed. I don't remember the last time I saw someone command a mountain to be moved out of it's place and cast into the sea.

 

[Dave-L]

It isn't your job. From what I have seen, it appears most people would enjoy you actually doing that very thing. However, that does not change the fact you just tried to make light of what I said. What I said regarding all denominations is absolutely true.

The whole thing reminds me of people doing what is right in their own eyes. Of course you wouldn't know anything about that, right?

You cannot judge motives without sinning.

 

[Dave-L]

Define the word "apostle" using scripture as a reference? Show a example of the apostles working out the meaning.

What were some of the reasons Jesus rebuked them over and over. What was he trying to teach them by repeating the matter?(Luke and Mark 9 ) He revealed to them when he rebuked them that they knew not what manner of spirit there were of.

What manner is that? The manner that makes apostles into gods in the likeness of dead corrupted mankind, as if God was served by their corrupted hands as a will ?

Scripture uses words in ways that define them. Bare definitions can be misleading.

 

[garee]

There is a difference between us coming to Him (which we are exhorted often to do) and Him coming to us (in rare visitations). I was referring to the former in faith (without sight or imaginations).

Hebrews 4:15-16 NKJV
[15] For we do not have a High Priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but was in all points tempted as we are, yet without sin. [16] Let us therefore come boldly to the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy and find grace to help in time of need.

Yes our high priest. prophet and apostle bears witness . When the father gave him words to speaks as prophecy they were easy to understand. He knew the tongue of God brought, the word of God prophecy. And there was no need to seek after the private interpretations of mankind to replace the work of the Holy Spirit ..

Others founded their wonderments on the oral traditions of men after the imaginations of their hearts. They mocked with stammering lips the tradition of God as it is written. They made a noise fell backward mocking the spirit of judgment over and over as sign of those who fall of their high horse feeling the effect of the poison of false doctrines.

God using the word Dan defines those who fall backward slain in the spirit.

Genesis 49:17 Dan shall be a serpent by the way, an adder in the path, that biteth the horse heels, so that his rider shall fall backward.

Fall backward, break neck also used as hanging all signs that point to the spirit of judgment .The letter of the law death

He assigned the spirit of judgment to Dan. . giving meaning to the word used in parables throughout . .

Dan the tribe left out of the description of the bride of Christ in the book of Revelation. The letter of the law death will be cast into the judgment fire of God .It will not rise and condemn through corruption and entire creation ever again .

Falling backward in judgment using Judas the apostle missing from the same description of the same bride to show the power of the gospel I AM Jehovah powerful words that move. The power of the spirit of judgment, the power that those fall backward mock .

John 18:5-6 King James Version (KJV) They answered him, Jesus of Nazareth. Jesus saith unto them, I am he. And Judas also, which betrayed him, stood with them.As "soon" then as he had said unto them, I am he, they went backward, and fell to the ground.

 

[garee]

Scripture uses words in ways that define them. Bare definitions can be misleading.

Really which bare definition misleads? Sent one? or as it is written.

Which teaching master today the word of God prophecy or the illusion we can puff up the apostles as a authority above the words of God . Making them gods in the likeness of men (Acts 14) .. we walk by faith the unseen power that works within .The one who gives gifts freely with no human strings attached

1 Corinthians 4:6-7 King James Version (KJV) And these things, brethren, I have in a figure transferred to myself and to Apollos for your sakes; that ye might learn in us not to think of men above that which is written, that no one of you be puffed up for one against another. For who maketh thee to differ from another? and what hast thou that thou didst not receive? now if thou didst receive it, why dost thou glory, as if thou hadst not received it?

Apostle = sent one. Abel the first .Are you sent as those two by two as part of the great commission ?

Amos 3:3 Can two walk together, except they be agreed?

 

[Dave-L]

Really which bare definition misleads? Sent one? or as it is written.

Which teaching master today the word of God prophecy or the illusion we can puff up the apostles as a authority above the words of God . Making them gods in the likeness of men (Acts 14) .. we walk by faith the unseen power that works within .The one who gives gifts freely with no human strings attached

1 Corinthians 4:6-7 King James Version (KJV) And these things, brethren, I have in a figure transferred to myself and to Apollos for your sakes; that ye might learn in us not to think of men above that which is written, that no one of you be puffed up for one against another. For who maketh thee to differ from another? and what hast thou that thou didst not receive? now if thou didst receive it, why dost thou glory, as if thou hadst not received it?

Apostle = sent one. Abel the first .Are you sent as those two by two as part of the great commission ?

Amos 3:3 Can two walk together, except they be agreed?

We need to study the 12 Apostles and find out who God says they are. Often scripture defines itself where human media cannot.

 

[crossnote]

There is a difference between us coming to Him (which we are exhorted often to do) and Him coming to us (in rare visitations). I was referring to the former in faith (without sight or imaginations).

Hebrews 4:15-16 NKJV
[15] For we do not have a High Priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but was in all points tempted as we are, yet without sin. [16] Let us therefore come boldly to the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy and find grace to help in time of need.

Yes our high priest. prophet and apostle bears witness . When the father gave him words to speaks as prophecy they were easy to understand. He knew the tongue of God brought, the word of God prophecy. And there was no need to seek after the private interpretations of mankind to replace the work of the Holy Spirit ..

Others founded their wonderments on the oral traditions of men after the imaginations of their hearts. They mocked with stammering lips the tradition of God as it is written. They made a noise fell backward mocking the spirit of judgment over and over as sign of those who fall of their high horse feeling the effect of the poison of false doctrines.

God using the word Dan defines those who fall backward slain in the spirit.

Genesis 49:17 Dan shall be a serpent by the way, an adder in the path, that biteth the horse heels, so that his rider shall fall backward.

Fall backward, break neck also used as hanging all signs that point to the spirit of judgment .The letter of the law death

He assigned the spirit of judgment to Dan. . giving meaning to the word used in parables throughout . .

Dan the tribe left out of the description of the bride of Christ in the book of Revelation. The letter of the law death will be cast into the judgment fire of God .It will not rise and condemn through corruption and entire creation ever again .

Falling backward in judgment using Judas the apostle missing from the same description of the same bride to show the power of the gospel I AM Jehovah powerful words that move. The power of the spirit of judgment, the power that those fall backward mock .

John 18:5-6 King James Version (KJV) They answered him, Jesus of Nazareth. Jesus saith unto them, I am he. And Judas also, which betrayed him, stood with them.As "soon" then as he had said unto them, I am he, they went backward, and fell to the ground.

I read your write up over and over, sorry for my denseness, but I haven't a clue how your response 'responds' to my post.

 

[Wansvic]

I don't see how Luke 24:45-47 is relevant to us, Christ miraculously opened the understanding of His Disciples but they were chosen by Him for a specific purpose. He never gave that gift to anyone else.

Someone interpreted the scriptures to you and it sounded right so you went along with their view, just as everyone else does in their own experience. So we form our view according to what we have been taught by more learned men than ourselves. I've never heard of anyone who took a Bible and formed their own view, without being led or convinced by others.

If you gave the Bible to 20 people who had never heard the Gospel or read any Scriptures before, you can bet they'll all come back and give you 20 different interpretations.

The Bible is described as a book for self deluded, insecure fools by the smartest people in the world. You would be hard pressed to find a believer with an IQ score of more than 140, so understanding and believing scripture has absolutely nothing to do with how smart we think we are. And God won't judge anyone for a lack of understanding or misinterpreting scripture, He's not impressed with how smart we think we are.

God is the author and finisher or our salvation so nobody will be able boast about how smart they were, in cracking the correct code of scripture and winning the big prize. While others with a lower intellect go to hell.

In order to understand what Jesus meant by His words in Luke 24:45-49 one must search out what new information concerning repentance and remission of sin was presented beginning in Jerusalem.

We know that John the Baptist introduced the concept of water baptism of repentance for the remission of sin. (Luke 3:3-4) However, one’s sins could not actually be remitted until after Jesus’ death, burial and resurrection.

Peter’s instruction pertaining to repentance and water baptism differed in only one way. Water baptism was to be done in the name of the Lord Jesus:
“Repent, and be baptized everyone of you in the name Jesus Christ FOR this remission of sin…”

This amendment to water baptism as introduced by John the Baptist was presented to mankind on the Day of Pentecost in Jerusalem. Jesus said repentance and remission of sin would be preached in His name AMONG ALL NATIONS beginning at Jerusalem.

Jesus’ words made it clear that without His death, burial and resurrection water baptism was just an empty ritual. However, obeying the command and submitting to it in the name of the one whose blood was shed for you brought about a spiritual reality where an individual’s sins were remitted/washing away.

Notice how Jesus concludes His statement. He tells them to wait in the city of Jerusalem where they will be endued with power. He would send the promise of the Holy Ghost. (the gift)

This entire scenario points directly to what Peter instructed those to do on the day the New Testament church was birthed, and makes it clear that it is still a requirement for everyone. Jesus said the message would be preached among all nations.


‘Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.
Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls. Acts 2:38-41

 

[Dino246]

You cannot judge motives without sinning.

Where is that in Scripture?

 

[DorothyMae]

There is a difference between us coming to Him (which we are exhorted often to do) and Him coming to us (in rare visitations). I was referring to the former in faith (without sight or imaginations).

Hebrews 4:15-16 NKJV
[15] For we do not have a High Priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but was in all points tempted as we are, yet without sin. [16] Let us therefore come boldly to the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy and find grace to help in time of need.

Coming to the throne as described above is not coming into his presence. And we are encouraged to go to obtain mercy and grace, not experience God.

 

[garee]

I read your write up over and over, sorry for my denseness, but I haven't a clue how your response 'responds' to my post.

Sorry no offence. I was trying to support what you wrote.

 

[Wansvic]

The following is an article, "Flying Flowers" depicting a true story that speaks to one of the unique ways God "speaks" to His children. It is worth the read:

Many people ask, is God really out there? Does He care about the trials we face each and every day? What about those seemingly unimportant tiny details?

An experience my brother and his wife had years ago answered these very questions. Their world was virtually crumbling. Financial pressures had taken their toll. How would they provide for their four children? Soon they would be homeless, how could they possibly start all over?

As the two newly saved Christians walked along on that bright spring day, Tony’s mind was filled with questions that seemed to have no answers. The turmoil in his mind was slowly reaching its breaking point. As Tony recalled, he had been the one who vehemently professed his unfailing faith in God’s provision. Surely God would open the doors of opportunity.

But now, he was about to “blow a fuse”. His wife strolled along beside him as if she didn’t have a care in the world. As he tossed suggestion after suggestion at her she just shrugged her shoulders and smiled at him.

Cheryl’s response was “Don’t worry everything is going to be okay, God knows what we need.” Earlier, Tony’s continual expression of faith in God’s word had “rubbed off” on Cheryl. Her own faith in God had given her piece of mind, she wasn’t thinking about anything other than the beauty that surrounded her. A slight breeze touched her face as she listened to the birds chirping and from a distance heard the laughter of children. She squeezed her husband’s hand and smiled up at him, wishing she could smooth the frown that etched his face.

As she looked away she caught her breath. Splashes of color danced upon the field of beautiful wild flowers directly across the street. Petals of every shape and size fluttered to the rhythm of an unheard song. “Oh, Tony, look!” she squealed in her excitement. “Please go pick some for me.” Tony had come to the end of his rope, he started to yell. “Are you crazy? We have to figure out where we’re going to live and how we’ll feed the kids. And you want me to go pick you flowers? I don’t think so.”

“Cheryl! When are you going to help me resolve the problems we’re facing?” His wife replied “I still believe what you told me in the beginning. God is going to take care of us.” “Be realistic Cheryl, we are out of time. God isn’t going to help us unless we help ourselves”

Tony shoved his hands deep in his pockets and shook his head. The only sound coming from either of them, as they headed for home, was the scuff of their shoes on the pavement. The cozy feel of the area they had just left behind was replaced by the traffic of the highway that led home.

They paid little attention to the cars and trucks that whizzed by, until they heard a loud bang that sounded as a tractor trailer hit a seam in the road. They both stood motionless and stared as a bouquet of wildflowers came flying up out of the back of the tractor trailer and landed right next to them on the highway.

Tony looked back and forth from the flowers to his wife. As Tony reached for the bunch of flowers he began to sob. Confused, Cheryl just stood staring at her husband. Finally it dawned on Cheryl that God delivered the beautiful wildflowers she had wanted. Tears spilled over her cheeks as Tony placed the bouquet in her hands.

When Tony shared this touching story, I remember thinking what an awesome God we serve. But God revealed much more than the lovely ending that so clearly expresses our heavenly father’s compassion toward his children. God opened my brother’s eyes to the complexity involved in this ending becoming a reality.

God was, and is always in control. The Lord knew exactly what struggles the two would be facing. He knew when their walk would take place. He had someone plant the seeds which would produce the flowers at just the right time. Workers picked and loaded the flowers onto the tractor trailer that would travel the exact route at precisely the right time. The couple and the tractor trailer met at the seam in the road simultaneously.

And what did God deliver? Not roses, tulips or daisies but he presented Cheryl with exactly what she desired; wildflowers. Cheryl had received yet another gift for placing her faith in Him. Yes, God does care about every little detail of our lives.

The wildflowers were a bright reminder of God’s love for the three weeks it took to pack up and close that chapter of the couple’s life. The bouquet withered away the morning of their departure.

God continued bestowing blessings upon the couple. Tony and Cheryl’s family enjoyed a much better lifestyle. The new home was nicer and the monthly expense remained the same. Their credit was re-established. Tony acquired a higher paying job and their children were able to attend better schools.

We must always remember that God is in control. And, “Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.” Proverbs 3:5