The relationship between the Remission of Sins, the Blood of Jesus, and receiving the Holy Ghost

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keiw

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Jan 6, 2022
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Great job, Kelby.

One thing that "Christians" ought think about is how Abraham, David, Joshua, Caleb, Moses, and all mentioned in the Great Hall of Faith, Hebrews chapter 11, could be considered Holy, Righteous and Pure . . . even though Christ hadn't died yet. How is it possible to be Pure if Christ hadn't lived or died in his physical body so as to be that final Sacrifice for all sin?

Understanding Salvation in the Old Testament explodes wide open Salvation as it is found in the New Testament.

Jesus sacrafice does not cover practiced sin. Only repented sin.( Acts 3:19) Hebrews 10:26) So it was not for all sin.
Those men lived righteous lives. They did not practice sins that God say are unacceptable.
 

Everlasting-Grace

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Jesus sacrafice does not cover practiced sin. Only repented sin.( Acts 3:19) Hebrews 10:26) So it was not for all sin.
Those men lived righteous lives. They did not practice sins that God say are unacceptable.
if I may...

Matthew 12:31
“Therefore I say to you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven men.

John 1:29 - The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him, and said, “Behold! The Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world!

can you please tell where is says only certain sins here? Because your post confuses me
 

keiw

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Jan 6, 2022
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if I may...

Matthew 12:31
“Therefore I say to you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven men.

John 1:29 - The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him, and said, “Behold! The Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world!

can you please tell where is says only certain sins here? Because your post confuses me

Yes the ones who have repented and turned around( stopped doing those sins) Acts 3:19)--There is a whole bible-a 2 edged sword. Good news for the righteous, ( those who have repented), not good news for the wicked.(those who do not repent).
Did you read Hebrews10:26= No sacrafice left for any who practice a sin.
1Corinthians6:9-11, Galations 5:19-21- 2 lists of sins that are unacceptable if one practices one. Both spots teach--Will not enter Gods kingdom. 1 Cor has a phrase--That is what some of you were= Past tense, they stopped doing those sins. As Acts3:19 shows-one must repent and turn around.
And here at Matt 7:22-23( judgement scenario) Jesus will say--Get away from me you who work iniquity( practice a sin) i must confess i never even knew you. Jaws will drop to the floor. because it shows those who thought they were his followers will hear those words if they practice a sin( work an iniquity) . Jesus sacrafice opened the door to all. But one must walk through that door by repenting and turning around.
The righteous still sin, but not the unacceptable ones found in those 2 lists.
Paul mentioned-spiritism at Galations-The greek word = Farmacia, thus drug addiction is apart of spiritism.
Looks to me like 99% on earth practice one of those sins. No wonder Jesus compared these last days to Noahs day. Matthew 24:36-39-- This world is in trouble.
 

Everlasting-Grace

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Yes the ones who have repented and turned around( stopped doing those sins) Acts 3:19)--There is a whole bible-a 2 edged sword. Good news for the righteous, ( those who have repented), not good news for the wicked.(those who do not repent).
Did you read Hebrews10:26= No sacrafice left for any who practice a sin.
1Corinthians6:9-11, Galations 5:19-21- 2 lists of sins that are unacceptable if one practices one. Both spots teach--Will not enter Gods kingdom. 1 Cor has a phrase--That is what some of you were= Past tense, they stopped doing those sins. As Acts3:19 shows-one must repent and turn around.
And here at Matt 7:22-23( judgement scenario) Jesus will say--Get away from me you who work iniquity( practice a sin) i must confess i never even knew you. Jaws will drop to the floor. because it shows those who thought they were his followers will hear those words if they practice a sin( work an iniquity) . Jesus sacrafice opened the door to all. But one must walk through that door by repenting and turning around.
The righteous still sin, but not the unacceptable ones found in those 2 lists.
Paul mentioned-spiritism at Galations-The greek word = Farmacia, thus drug addiction is apart of spiritism.
Looks to me like 99% on earth practice one of those sins. No wonder Jesus compared these last days to Noahs day. Matthew 24:36-39-- This world is in trouble.
1 John 3: talking about those who practice sin

4 Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness. 5 And you know that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin. 6 Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him.

7 Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous. 8 He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil. 9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.

so if those who prace sin have never met or known God. how were they ever saved?
 

2ndTimothyGroup

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Feb 20, 2021
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Jesus sacrafice does not cover practiced sin. Only repented sin.( Acts 3:19) Hebrews 10:26) So it was not for all sin.
Those men lived righteous lives. They did not practice sins that God say are unacceptable.
Whoa. This took me by surprise. This idea of yours . . . I don't relate to. I don't see how it fits with the narrative of the Bible. But, we all see different things.

Here is what I know about my relationship with Christ . . . for sure. My heart has been Circumcised by Christ and there is no greater chance of Christ handing my spiritual "flesh" back to me than my physical flesh (from physical circumcision) being handed back to me. In other words, my heart has been permanently relieved of the Curse of the Lord, which is the Purpose of Christ and it is the Work of Christ. It is the Holy Operation of God performed upon my Heart by Christ. It is the Spiritual Action by Jesus that made me whole and complete. It is this action that renders the Devil as defeated in my life. As though lightning falling from the sky (remember the seventy that returned from healing and casting out demons . . . and Jesus's referencing Satan falling like lightning?), Satan was defeated in my life and the victory belongs to Jesus. He received the credit for defeating the Spiritual Rulers and Authorities. I have essentially just quoted all of Colossians 2:9-15, relating it to my experience with the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

Until I began studying Colossians 2:9-15, I hadn't a clue as to the actual True of the Bible. I could quote lots of Scripture, had written a few papers on certain doctrines, and I was pretty close to understanding the Gospel. But being pretty close to understanding the Gospel is still being miles away. But once Colossians 2:9-15 sunk into my bones (and my head), the entire Bible opened up as though a parting of Biblical waters so that I could be free (to understand).

Read Colossians in as many different translations as you are able, but be sure to include the NLT. As soon as you read the NLT, it will open up all other translations and begin to change your entire scope of the Bible. That's what happened to me; I hope it happens to you too.

Tip: Verse 10 explains verse 9 and verses 11-15 explains verse 10 (why a Child of God is "complete" through Christ). Paul isn't easy to understand, but these Seven perfect verses will, as said, swing the doors of understanding wide open. When these passages below get into your heart and soul, the rest of his writings will become totally new to you. It is incredible.

Colossians 2:9-15 NLT - "For in Christ lives all the fullness of God in a human body. So you also are complete through your union with Christ, who is the head over every ruler and authority. When you came to Christ, you were "circumcised," but not by a physical procedure. Christ performed a spiritual circumcision--the cutting away of your sinful nature. For you were buried with Christ when you were baptized. And with him you were raised to new life because you trusted the mighty power of God, who raised Christ from the dead. You were dead because of your sins and because your sinful nature was not yet cut away. Then God made you alive with Christ, for he forgave all our sins. He canceled the record of the charges against us and took it away by nailing it to the cross. In this way, he disarmed the spiritual rulers and authorities. He shamed them publicly by his victory over them on the cross."

One of these days these someone will write to me and say, "Wow. The lights were just flipped on!" It hasn't happened yet . . . I keep hoping and waiting.
 

keiw

Member
Jan 6, 2022
56
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8
1 John 3: talking about those who practice sin

4 Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness. 5 And you know that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin. 6 Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him.

7 Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous. 8 He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil. 9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.

so if those who prace sin have never met or known God. how were they ever saved?

They werent saved. Jesus tells them he never knew them at Matt 7:22-23. Everyone sins even the righteous. They however do not practice sin. Thats the difference.
 

keiw

Member
Jan 6, 2022
56
7
8
Whoa. This took me by surprise. This idea of yours . . . I don't relate to. I don't see how it fits with the narrative of the Bible. But, we all see different things.

Here is what I know about my relationship with Christ . . . for sure. My heart has been Circumcised by Christ and there is no greater chance of Christ handing my spiritual "flesh" back to me than my physical flesh (from physical circumcision) being handed back to me. In other words, my heart has been permanently relieved of the Curse of the Lord, which is the Purpose of Christ and it is the Work of Christ. It is the Holy Operation of God performed upon my Heart by Christ. It is the Spiritual Action by Jesus that made me whole and complete. It is this action that renders the Devil as defeated in my life. As though lightning falling from the sky (remember the seventy that returned from healing and casting out demons . . . and Jesus's referencing Satan falling like lightning?), Satan was defeated in my life and the victory belongs to Jesus. He received the credit for defeating the Spiritual Rulers and Authorities. I have essentially just quoted all of Colossians 2:9-15, relating it to my experience with the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

Until I began studying Colossians 2:9-15, I hadn't a clue as to the actual True of the Bible. I could quote lots of Scripture, had written a few papers on certain doctrines, and I was pretty close to understanding the Gospel. But being pretty close to understanding the Gospel is still being miles away. But once Colossians 2:9-15 sunk into my bones (and my head), the entire Bible opened up as though a parting of Biblical waters so that I could be free (to understand).

Read Colossians in as many different translations as you are able, but be sure to include the NLT. As soon as you read the NLT, it will open up all other translations and begin to change your entire scope of the Bible. That's what happened to me; I hope it happens to you too.

Tip: Verse 10 explains verse 9 and verses 11-15 explains verse 10 (why a Child of God is "complete" through Christ). Paul isn't easy to understand, but these Seven perfect verses will, as said, swing the doors of understanding wide open. When these passages below get into your heart and soul, the rest of his writings will become totally new to you. It is incredible.

Colossians 2:9-15 NLT - "For in Christ lives all the fullness of God in a human body. So you also are complete through your union with Christ, who is the head over every ruler and authority. When you came to Christ, you were "circumcised," but not by a physical procedure. Christ performed a spiritual circumcision--the cutting away of your sinful nature. For you were buried with Christ when you were baptized. And with him you were raised to new life because you trusted the mighty power of God, who raised Christ from the dead. You were dead because of your sins and because your sinful nature was not yet cut away. Then God made you alive with Christ, for he forgave all our sins. He canceled the record of the charges against us and took it away by nailing it to the cross. In this way, he disarmed the spiritual rulers and authorities. He shamed them publicly by his victory over them on the cross."

One of these days these someone will write to me and say, "Wow. The lights were just flipped on!" It hasn't happened yet . . . I keep hoping and waiting.

Here is Jesus at judgement scenario ( Matthew 7:22-23)telling any who practice a sin( work iniquity) and believe they are christian--He says to those--Get away from me you who work iniquity, i must confess i never even knew you. Jaws will drop to the floor. And their response is- lord, lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and expel demons in your name. and perform many powerful works in your name. And Jesus answer to them will be the above. He never even knew them because they practiced a sin.
So going through life thinking you have no sin is not a wise place to be standing. All who have Christ do not practice a sin. See even those above thought they had Christ be assures them they did not.
 

Everlasting-Grace

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Dec 18, 2021
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They werent saved. Jesus tells them he never knew them at Matt 7:22-23. Everyone sins even the righteous. They however do not practice sin. Thats the difference.
yes. so you just proved my point, they were never saved.

the ones who have repented and are born of God can not fall back into habitual sin.
 

keiw

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Jan 6, 2022
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yes. so you just proved my point, they were never saved.

the ones who have repented and are born of God can not fall back into habitual sin.

Again the words of Jesus teach the opposite--Matthew 10:22- He that endures until their end will be saved. Matthew 24:13-He that has endured until their end is the one that will be saved. See the words--will be saved. Any can fall. Those who do not endure until their end will not be saved.
There are plenty of examples in the bible-The biggest being-Solomon-God called him the wisest man who ever lived( at that point) yet he fell to false god worship and did not endure until his end. Solomon stood for God for many years. So any can fall. God called it--like a dog going back to ones own vomit. 2Peter 2:21,22-- Judas a hand picked apostle fell as well.
 

Wansvic

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Here is Jesus at judgement scenario ( Matthew 7:22-23)telling any who practice a sin( work iniquity) and believe they are christian--He says to those--Get away from me you who work iniquity, i must confess i never even knew you. Jaws will drop to the floor. And their response is- lord, lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and expel demons in your name. and perform many powerful works in your name. And Jesus answer to them will be the above. He never even knew them because they practiced a sin.
So going through life thinking you have no sin is not a wise place to be standing. All who have Christ do not practice a sin. See even those above thought they had Christ be assures them they did not.
Something to consider. The individuals in Matthew 7:23 definitely believed in Jesus, and did wonderful works in His name. Yet, Jesus did not know them. In fact Jesus said He NEVER knew them. What was missing? Or, should I say still present? It is very likely that the group had failed to have their sins washed away. Those who believe the entire gospel message and obey the command to be baptized in water in the name of Jesus have their sins remitted. (Acts 2:38, 22:16) Notice Romans 6:4-6 states clearly those who have been baptized have been buried WITH Christ into His death wherein sin is destroyed. Clearly Jesus would know those who have, through obedience, been buried WITH Him.

Just prior to making the statement, "I never knew you," Jesus spoke of there being two different paths. One that many follow that leads to destruction. And one that few will find that leads unto life. (Matthew 7: 13-14) After stating I never knew you, Jesus called the individual's workers of iniquity. The Hebrew meaning of the word iniquity is interesting especially considering it ties right into what Jesus said about different paths. The word iniquity (awon) means to err, go astray. It expresses deviation from the right path rather than that of perversion. (International Standard Bible Encyclopaedia)

In the Old Testament of the 11 words translated "iniquity," by far the most common and important is `awon (about 215 times). Etymologically, it is customary to explain it as meaning literally "crookedness," "perverseness," i.e. evil regarded as that which is not straight or upright, moral distortion (from ` iwwah, "to bend," "make crooked," "pervert"). Driver, however (following Lagarde), maintains that two roots, distinct in Arabic, have been confused In Hebrew, one = "to bend," "pervert" (as above), and the other = "to err," "go astray"; that `awon is derived from the latter, and consequently expresses the idea of error, deviation from the right path, rather than that of perversion (International Standard Bible Encyclopaedia)
 

2ndTimothyGroup

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And Jesus answer to them will be the above. He never even knew them because they practiced a sin.
He didn't [know] them meaning that He didn't Circumcise their hearts. Remember what I said, which is that Colossians 2:9-15 will establish context and understanding. It is Circumcision that separates a person from the law. So when Jesus referenced them as Lawbreakers, it means [not] that they were sinless, but that He had not separated them from the Law. Huge difference.

Again, study those Seven verses. From those Seven verses, your entire scope and vision of the Word will change.

One of these days, someone will take heed and accept my challenge. To date . . . not one.
 

Everlasting-Grace

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Dec 18, 2021
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Again the words of Jesus teach the opposite--Matthew 10:22- He that endures until their end will be saved. Matthew 24:13-He that has endured until their end is the one that will be saved. See the words--will be saved. Any can fall. Those who do not endure until their end will not be saved.
You need to get context. The context of jesus words were great tribulation. Being saved was being saved out of tribulation (physical salvation)

eternal salvation was not in context here. we can not force it when it is not there
[quote[
There are plenty of examples in the bible-The biggest being-Solomon-God called him the wisest man who ever lived( at that point) yet he fell to false god worship and did not endure until his end. Solomon stood for God for many years. So any can fall. God called it--like a dog going back to ones own vomit. 2Peter 2:21,22-- Judas a hand picked apostle fell as well.[/QUOTE]
Um, Solomon will be in heaven

Judas was an unbeliever and the devil. God chose him because he needed Judas to do what Judas did.
 

keiw

Member
Jan 6, 2022
56
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8
Something to consider. The individuals in Matthew 7:23 definitely believed in Jesus, and did wonderful works in His name. Yet, Jesus did not know them. In fact Jesus said He NEVER knew them. What was missing? Or, should I say still present? It is very likely that the group had failed to have their sins washed away. Those who believe the entire gospel message and obey the command to be baptized in water in the name of Jesus have their sins remitted. (Acts 2:38, 22:16) Notice Romans 6:4-6 states clearly those who have been baptized have been buried WITH Christ into His death wherein sin is destroyed. Clearly Jesus would know those who have, through obedience, been buried WITH Him.

Just prior to making the statement, "I never knew you," Jesus spoke of there being two different paths. One that many follow that leads to destruction. And one that few will find that leads unto life. (Matthew 7: 13-14) After stating I never knew you, Jesus called the individual's workers of iniquity. The Hebrew meaning of the word iniquity is interesting especially considering it ties right into what Jesus said about different paths. The word iniquity (awon) means to err, go astray. It expresses deviation from the right path rather than that of perversion. (International Standard Bible Encyclopaedia)

In the Old Testament of the 11 words translated "iniquity," by far the most common and important is `awon (about 215 times). Etymologically, it is customary to explain it as meaning literally "crookedness," "perverseness," i.e. evil regarded as that which is not straight or upright, moral distortion (from ` iwwah, "to bend," "make crooked," "pervert"). Driver, however (following Lagarde), maintains that two roots, distinct in Arabic, have been confused In Hebrew, one = "to bend," "pervert" (as above), and the other = "to err," "go astray"; that `awon is derived from the latter, and consequently expresses the idea of error, deviation from the right path, rather than that of perversion (International Standard Bible Encyclopaedia)

. Yes the road is cramped means-there is no stepping off to the left or to the right. But one may do that along the way as Peter did when he denied Jesus after all he saw. The important thing stand back up as soon as possible. But the 2 lists i shared both teach will not enter Gods kingdom, so the righteous do not do those. Not only did those at Matt 7 think they were christian, they were told they were christian as well. I know one religion teaches-once saved always saved. That is not truth. Those at Matt 7 most assuredly found these teachers-2Corinthians 11:12-15. Even a baptized one can fall and when they do God says to remove them from amongst yourselves. 1Cor 5:9-13-- one called a brother is one who is baptized. God views them as wicked if they become unrepentent of their sin they turned back to.
Even some baptized ones remain sitting on the fence( neither hot or cold) as Jesus described it, He says he will vomit those out. Revelation 3:15,16
 

keiw

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Jan 6, 2022
56
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He didn't [know] them meaning that He didn't Circumcise their hearts. Remember what I said, which is that Colossians 2:9-15 will establish context and understanding. It is Circumcision that separates a person from the law. So when Jesus referenced them as Lawbreakers, it means [not] that they were sinless, but that He had not separated them from the Law. Huge difference.

Again, study those Seven verses. From those Seven verses, your entire scope and vision of the Word will change.

One of these days, someone will take heed and accept my challenge. To date . . . not one.

The whole bible must be applied.
 

keiw

Member
Jan 6, 2022
56
7
8
You need to get context. The context of jesus words were great tribulation. Being saved was being saved out of tribulation (physical salvation)

eternal salvation was not in context here. we can not force it when it is not there
[quote[
There are plenty of examples in the bible-The biggest being-Solomon-God called him the wisest man who ever lived( at that point) yet he fell to false god worship and did not endure until his end. Solomon stood for God for many years. So any can fall. God called it--like a dog going back to ones own vomit. 2Peter 2:21,22-- Judas a hand picked apostle fell as well.
Um, Solomon will be in heaven

Judas was an unbeliever and the devil. God chose him because he needed Judas to do what Judas did.[/QUOTE]


It does not say its the great tribulation in those 2 posts i shared. So how are you getting that idea?
 

Everlasting-Grace

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Dec 18, 2021
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It does not say its the great tribulation in those 2 posts i shared. So how are you getting that idea?
Matt 24 is about the end of days, right before Christ returns.

He who endures to the end is in this context.
 

keiw

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Jan 6, 2022
56
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Um, Solomon will be in heaven

Judas was an unbeliever and the devil. God chose him because he needed Judas to do what Judas did.

It does not say its the great tribulation in those 2 posts i shared. So how are you getting that idea?[/QUOTE]


Solomon will not be in heaven, he fell to false god worship. 1Cor 5: 9-13is clear--if one stands for God as Solomon did, then becomes unrepentent-it says remove them from amongst yourselves, God views them as wicked then it says. The wicked will be cut off the bible teaches. Psalm 37:9,10
 

Everlasting-Grace

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Dec 18, 2021
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It does not say its the great tribulation in those 2 posts i shared. So how are you getting that idea?

Solomon will not be in heaven, he fell to false god worship. 1Cor 5: 9-13is clear--if one stands for God as Solomon did, then becomes unrepentent-it says remove them from amongst yourselves, God views them as wicked then it says. The wicked will be cut off the bible teaches. Psalm 37:9,10[/QUOTE]
I am not sure what you are saying, please learn how to quote.

I am not God.

I do not think God allows unbelievers to write the word of God.

You have no right to judge people.