"The rich man And Lazarus..."

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Saul-to-Paul

Junior Member
Jun 5, 2017
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The fact that God is able to means that it isn’t an idle threat. We’re supposed to fear God for that very reason. If God won’t do it then there’s nothing to fear.

God will destroy soul and body and hell because that’s simply the alternative to living forever. That’s why Jesus said anything about it at all. It’s also why it’s repeated again and again in the NT by the various writers.

Matthew 10:28
28Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Instead, fear the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell.
Every spiritual, symbolic language of hell has someone, something, or even a group of people ALIVE in it.
 

Runningman

Well-known member
Mar 4, 2020
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not always

Definition of destroy

transitive verb
1: to ruin the structure, organic existence, or condition ofdestroyed the filesalso : to ruin as if by tearing to shreds their reputation was destroyeda disease that destroys the body's ability to fight off illness … destroyed any hope of a return to past crackdowns … — George Brock
2a: to put out of existence : KILLdestroy an injured horse
b: NEUTRALIZEthe moon destroys the light of the stars
c: ANNIHILATE, VANQUISHarmies had been crippled but not destroyed— W. L. Shirer
intransitive verb
: to cause ruin or destructionit is proverbially easier to destroy than to construct— T. S. Eliot
Where do you see “not always” in the definitions you provided?
 

Runningman

Well-known member
Mar 4, 2020
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One word may has 3 or 4 meaning depend on the context

for example
lack of oil destroy the engine
is that mean the engine cease to exist?
If you run an engine without oil it’ll get damaged, but it can be repaired. Destroyed in such a case is an informal exaggeration. It isn’t actually destroyed. Do you think the Bible is exaggerating?
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
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If you run an engine without oil it’ll get damaged, but it can be repaired. Destroyed in such a case is an informal exaggeration. It isn’t actually destroyed. Do you think the Bible is exaggerating?
But destroy not always mean death

also biblical definition of death is not cease to exist

for example

jesus die on the cross

is that mean Jesus cease to exist?
 

Runningman

Well-known member
Mar 4, 2020
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But destroy not always mean death

also biblical definition of death is not cease to exist

for example

jesus die on the cross

is that mean Jesus cease to exist?
Destroy and death is in reference to the unsaved. Jesus doesn’t fit into the unsaved category.
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
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Destroy and death is in reference to the unsaved. Jesus doesn’t fit into the unsaved category.
bible use that terminology

1 cor 15
3 For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance[a]: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures,

that Christ die or death
 

Runningman

Well-known member
Mar 4, 2020
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bible use that terminology

1 cor 15
3 For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance[a]: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures,

that Christ die or death
Christ physically died and everyone will physically die. When the Bible says the unsaved will be destroyed or perish it means they’ll have something the saved don’t get. It means being destroyed body and soul.
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
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Christ physically died and everyone will physically die. When the Bible says the unsaved will be destroyed or perish it means they’ll have something the saved don’t get. It means being destroyed body and soul.
let me remind you

jesus death
and not mean Jesus soul death
so the word death not mean His soul death

and yes the saved have something unsaved don’t have it

saved have heaven but unsaved don’t

unsaved have eternal hell
 

Runningman

Well-known member
Mar 4, 2020
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let me remind you

jesus death
and not mean Jesus soul death
so the word death not mean His soul death
That’s great you’re understanding that much about saved folk. We agree.

and yes the saved have something unsaved don’t have it
Correct, it’s called eternal life.

saved have heaven but unsaved don’t

unsaved have eternal hell
partially correct, but your bit about “unsaved have eternal hell” isn’t said even a single time in the Bible. Again, the unsaved are destroyed; they die. 100% All Bible.
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
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That’s great you’re understanding that much about saved folk. We agree.



Correct, it’s called eternal life.


partially correct, but your bit about “unsaved have eternal hell” isn’t said even a single time in the Bible. Again, the unsaved are destroyed; they die. 100% All Bible.
It say in Matt 25:46
46 “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”

both have eternal, one eternal life other eternal punishment
 

Runningman

Well-known member
Mar 4, 2020
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It say in Matt 25:46
46 “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”

both have eternal, one eternal life other eternal punishment
And other places it says the wicked die. Can’t be in eternal punishment while you’re dead. Do you know about rightly-dividing the word of God? It’s necessary to avoid contradictions and produce sound doctrine.

The eternal punishment for the sin of the unsaved is being put to death.

Romans 6:23
23For the wages of sin isdeath; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Now read Matthew 25:46 again:

46And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
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And other places it says the wicked die. Can’t be in eternal punishment while you’re dead. Do you know about rightly-dividing the word of God? It’s necessary to avoid contradictions and produce sound doctrine.

The eternal punishment for the sin of the unsaved is being put to death.

Romans 6:23
23For the wages of sin isdeath; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Now read Matthew 25:46 again:

46And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
Like what we see before Jesus die on the cross, it do not mean His soul death

death can be mean stop being God’s child
not cease to exist

stop being God’s child and no longer permitted stay in God house, go to prison or hell forever
 

Runningman

Well-known member
Mar 4, 2020
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Like what we see before Jesus die on the cross, it do not mean His soul death

death can be mean stop being God’s child
not cease to exist

stop being God’s child and no longer permitted stay in God house, go to prison or hell forever
You are not reading or hearing anything I’m saying or what I’m showing you the Bible says. Go for it. I’ll stick with what the Bible says.
 

FreeGrace2

Well-known member
Jan 31, 2021
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My view of punishment is death because that’s what the Bible says from Genesis to Revelation.
I agree. The punishment is capital punishment. That deals with the body. Why won't you accept that?

You’re missing the forest for a single tree by focusing on a single verse that applies to three persons.
Hardly. 2 humans and ALL the fallen angels, which are unnumbered.

What is baffling is that immediately AFTER the account of what happens to the devil, which would include all his fellow fallen angels, the GWT is next and ALL those at the judgment will be likewise cast into the LOF.

And you claim it is assumption to think all of them will get the SAME FATE as the 2 humans plus all the fallen angels, when the reality is that it is pure presumption to conclude that NONE of them will get the same fate as the 2 humans and all the fallen angels.

The flow of the chapter easily concludes that all human beings will get the same fate.

And your deficient understanding of "death" has been easily answered.

God created human beings for companionship. That in itself would prove that He would create souls that will last forever

btw, there are NO verses that show that God gives immortality to souls. Yet we know that believers will live forever. Why? Because God will resurrect and glorify their BODIES. Nothing about their souls.

You are simply on the wrong track. There is something in your background that prevents you from facing the fact that unbelievers will be in the LOF forever and ever.
 

FreeGrace2

Well-known member
Jan 31, 2021
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Immortality is put on by grace through in the shed righteous blood of Jesus. <- Christianity 101.

You ECT deniers fail to realize that the immortality is about ONLY THE BODY.

1 Cor 15;53 - For the perishable must be clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality.


Oor physical bodies are what will perish. Thanks to Adam. There is nothing in the Bible about souls needing or getting immortality.

Check out ALL the resurrection passages and see for yourself if there is any mention of souls.
 

FreeGrace2

Well-known member
Jan 31, 2021
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FreeGrace2 said:
I don't care. It says "able to", not WILL.

You need to read more slowly.
So you believe dead bodies had the "possibility" of being thrown into Hades with their alive souls?
OK, so you just want to be difficult then.

I don't believe in "possibilities" in regard to the Bible. I believe what the Bible SAYS.

NO bodies in hell. Got it? I'm getting tired of your lame comments that have no resemblance to what I believe or post.

It is SOULS that go to Hades. The bodies stay on earth in graves, usually. Some are blown to very tiny pieces by explosives, or burned up by fire, etc. But NO bodies in Hades. This really isn't that difficult to grasp. What's taking YOU so long?

The resurrection of the unbelievers will be when God removes the unsaved souls from Hades, resurrected their mortal bodies and joins them together and brings them to the GWT.

Real simple. Quit making such ridiculous mistakes.
 

FreeGrace2

Well-known member
Jan 31, 2021
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The fact that God is able to means that it isn’t an idle threat.
Why bring up another red herring? No one ever said it is an "idle threat". You are just rrying to demonize. Knock it off already.

It is a real ability. No doubt about it. But you just cannot prove that God WILL cause souls to cease to exist. That's your opinion, fine.

But you have zero evidence that He either HAS done so, or WILL do so.

We’re supposed to fear God for that very reason.
The word "fear" includes 'awe, respect, etc". We are NOT to shake in our boots. We are to have total awe and respect for Him.

If God won’t do it then there’s nothing to fear.
I think you might want to check that fresh bullet hole in your other foot about now. There is everything to be afraid of, knowing that He will, rather than simply make your soul disappear and then experience NOTHING ever again, torment YOU day and night for ever and ever.

Atheists will be mighty disappointed when they realize they are going to be in the LOF day and night for ever and ever.

God will destroy soul and body and hell because that’s simply the alternative to living forever.
Your ignorance is unbecoming of you. God IS ABLE TO, but no verse says that God WILL. Face reality!!

To say "that is simply the alternative" is arrogant, as if you have all the answers when you don't even have 1 answer.

There are no bodies in hell, for starters. Only the conscious souls of unbelievers. At their resurrection, they will again be back in their resurrected but still mortal bodies for the GWT judgment. And when they will be cast into the LOF, their mortal resurrected physical bodies will be completely destroyed, and perish. But their conscious soul wil be "tormented day and night for ever and ever."

Matthew 10:28
28Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Instead, fear the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell.

See? "able to" does NOT mean "will". I will repeat this as often as necessary to help you understand.