'The rich young ruler ' confusion .
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S
Obviously. And analyzing the context of each one of those will result in a theme often repeated. If you find yourself trying to come up with an alternative meaning other than what is obvious to most readers that should make it obvious that you are trying to resist the natural reading of the verse in context.
12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.
16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? but we have the mind of Christ.
13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.
16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? but we have the mind of Christ.
S
Many think they are moral and good people. They have spent their entire lives doing what they think is decent and good. They have accumulated a good retirement and put all their kids through college. Surely they will go to heaven? Jesus says, Make Following Jesus your chief concern. This is eternal life that you may know Him and Jesus Christ whom He has sent.
The message Jesus gave him is not a different message than what we preach.
As to how the rich will hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven, it is as shocking to people today as it was to them.
You may not like this, I don't expect many to agree with these statements but I believe that many who accumulate wealth for themselves and their families, enough for decades and decades to come, enough for even their grandchildren to forgo working for generations and enjoy the rich life and go to church and claim to be believers, if they do not use that wealth for the Gospel and to contribute to the needs of the church and the Kingdom of God they are not true believers and will wake up in eternal hell. This is a hard message and many will reject it because it sounds like "salvation by works" but I don't think that way. It is evidence of real faith in what Jesus said and a heart transformed by the Holy Spirit to think differently than the one who thinks they have their "ticket to heaven" and are unconcerned with the things that God is concerned with.
I know that you are wanting to apply what Jesus said to only the man he was talking to, or the Jews of that present historical moment, but I think we all know that we are to go teach all nations whatsoever Jesus commanded and the lessons in all of his teachings including this one is about the heart faith that goes beyond a list of rules and gives him Everything, everyday.
The message Jesus gave him is not a different message than what we preach.
As to how the rich will hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven, it is as shocking to people today as it was to them.
You may not like this, I don't expect many to agree with these statements but I believe that many who accumulate wealth for themselves and their families, enough for decades and decades to come, enough for even their grandchildren to forgo working for generations and enjoy the rich life and go to church and claim to be believers, if they do not use that wealth for the Gospel and to contribute to the needs of the church and the Kingdom of God they are not true believers and will wake up in eternal hell. This is a hard message and many will reject it because it sounds like "salvation by works" but I don't think that way. It is evidence of real faith in what Jesus said and a heart transformed by the Holy Spirit to think differently than the one who thinks they have their "ticket to heaven" and are unconcerned with the things that God is concerned with.
I know that you are wanting to apply what Jesus said to only the man he was talking to, or the Jews of that present historical moment, but I think we all know that we are to go teach all nations whatsoever Jesus commanded and the lessons in all of his teachings including this one is about the heart faith that goes beyond a list of rules and gives him Everything, everyday.
sell all you have, give to the poor, and come follow me, says Jesus.
JUST DO IT!
wow if I had anything to sell, I would! So funny that Jesus asked me to follow Him at a time I was unemployed and didnt have anything, and already was poor so I guess it was easier, but if you actually have things to sell you wont regret it.
JUST DO IT!
wow if I had anything to sell, I would! So funny that Jesus asked me to follow Him at a time I was unemployed and didnt have anything, and already was poor so I guess it was easier, but if you actually have things to sell you wont regret it.
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if you sell your house you get the most for it, a lot of people actually have more than one home that they dont really need. You cant realistically live in more than one house anyway.
You will be financially free then and able to give to the poor. You could even give that house to someone who needs it.
I know many christians who have sold up and gone to preach the gospel.
You will be financially free then and able to give to the poor. You could even give that house to someone who needs it.
I know many christians who have sold up and gone to preach the gospel.
In Acts 15 we see contention over the matter over ' requirements ' for the gentiles. The response is :
19Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God:
20But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.
What is not said is " sell all your possessions "
Its not " keep the commandments "
19Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God:
20But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.
What is not said is " sell all your possessions "
Its not " keep the commandments "
L
Hi, throughfaith.
First of all, I didn't read all of the other responses here, so please forgive me if somebody else already mentioned what I'm about to say.
I'm guessing, based upon the few posts of yours that I've read since joining yesterday, that you're putting your emphasis on the keeping of the commandments in relation to inheriting eternal life.
If that is the case, then, although I do believe that we should keep certain commandments, I don't believe that this was the primary focus of what Jesus was saying here.
For example, Paul said:
"And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing. " (I Cor. 13:3)
Giving up all of one's goods, in and of itself, profits us nothing, so I don't believe that was the sole purpose of what Jesus was seeking to convey to the rich young ruler.
Instead, I believe that the primary focus of Jesus' interaction with this young man is found here:
"Now when Jesus heard these things, he said unto him, Yet lackest thou one thing: sell all that thou hast, and distribute unto the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: AND COME, FOLLOW ME." (Luke 18:22)
I capitalized the "AND COME, FOLLOW ME" part because, again, just selling all that one has and distributing it to the poor, in and of itself, profits us nothing or is not enough.
Jesus apparently saw money/wealth as an idol that was hindering this young man from following him, and that is why I believe that he addressed it as such.
The parallel account in Mark's gospel brings this out a bit stronger, I believe:
"Then Jesus beholding him loved him, and said unto him, One thing thou lackest: go thy way, sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: AND COME, TAKE UP THE CROSS, AND FOLLOW ME." (Mark 10:21)
It is by taking up the cross, a symbol of sacrifice or self-denial, and following Jesus that we inherit eternal life.
Just keeping any of the commandments, as important as they may be, in and of themselves, won't save us.
God requires us to lose our lives to find them or to die to this world in order to inherit the world which is to come.
Again, I'm honestly not seeking to diminish the importance of keeping certain commandments, but Jesus was clearly after more than that in my reading of the scripture that you cited in your OP.
First of all, I didn't read all of the other responses here, so please forgive me if somebody else already mentioned what I'm about to say.
I'm guessing, based upon the few posts of yours that I've read since joining yesterday, that you're putting your emphasis on the keeping of the commandments in relation to inheriting eternal life.
If that is the case, then, although I do believe that we should keep certain commandments, I don't believe that this was the primary focus of what Jesus was saying here.
For example, Paul said:
"And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing. " (I Cor. 13:3)
Giving up all of one's goods, in and of itself, profits us nothing, so I don't believe that was the sole purpose of what Jesus was seeking to convey to the rich young ruler.
Instead, I believe that the primary focus of Jesus' interaction with this young man is found here:
"Now when Jesus heard these things, he said unto him, Yet lackest thou one thing: sell all that thou hast, and distribute unto the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: AND COME, FOLLOW ME." (Luke 18:22)
I capitalized the "AND COME, FOLLOW ME" part because, again, just selling all that one has and distributing it to the poor, in and of itself, profits us nothing or is not enough.
Jesus apparently saw money/wealth as an idol that was hindering this young man from following him, and that is why I believe that he addressed it as such.
The parallel account in Mark's gospel brings this out a bit stronger, I believe:
"Then Jesus beholding him loved him, and said unto him, One thing thou lackest: go thy way, sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: AND COME, TAKE UP THE CROSS, AND FOLLOW ME." (Mark 10:21)
It is by taking up the cross, a symbol of sacrifice or self-denial, and following Jesus that we inherit eternal life.
Just keeping any of the commandments, as important as they may be, in and of themselves, won't save us.
God requires us to lose our lives to find them or to die to this world in order to inherit the world which is to come.
Again, I'm honestly not seeking to diminish the importance of keeping certain commandments, but Jesus was clearly after more than that in my reading of the scripture that you cited in your OP.
S
Well I am encouraged that you did say "DO" is beileve"
Believing is definitely an action.
I knew someone who left a $120 an hour IT consulting career to go into full time preaching ministry was not making any income at all for the first 4 years. They were full of the joy of the Lord and didn't regret selling all and Following Jesus. They considered the call of God to Follow Jesus and preach fulltime far greater riches than the $120 an hour they used to make. That is the same heart I see in this story.
Selling all and Following Jesus is LIFE ETERNAL. JUST DO IT!
Believing is definitely an action.
I knew someone who left a $120 an hour IT consulting career to go into full time preaching ministry was not making any income at all for the first 4 years. They were full of the joy of the Lord and didn't regret selling all and Following Jesus. They considered the call of God to Follow Jesus and preach fulltime far greater riches than the $120 an hour they used to make. That is the same heart I see in this story.
Selling all and Following Jesus is LIFE ETERNAL. JUST DO IT!
So today we tell lost people if they ask us , how to be saved, we tell them ,keep the commandments, sell everything , Deny yourself, pickup your cross, and follow Jesus ( Of course thats not possible to do as Jesus is not physically with us ,literally on his way to be crucified )
THEN they will receive the Holy spirit?
THEN they will receive the Holy spirit?
S
What you are really asking is if Jesus is telling this man to do something different than what Jesus would tell him later after the cross and resurrection and I believe that his message to this particular man would be the same.
The man might understand more about Jesus after the cross and resurrection but the message to him from Jesus would be the same.
You cannot make a case for the idea that Jesus was telling him something different because he was a Jew or because Jesus had not yet died on the cross. The way of salvation was to put faith in Jesus and in this man's case Jesus saw something that he "lacked" concerning real faith that You don't see because you don't see into the heart like Jesus does.
Jesus might tell any one of us to do something and we better do it. If we draw back we are in danger of drawing back unto perdition.
Some people are going to need to give some things up because those things will cause them to fall away from serving the Lord. Jesus knows who these people are and what they need to give up. You don't.
Never tell someone they don't need to give up something to be saved because you can't know that. You don't know what is in their heart that they need to give up. Jesus does.
38Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.
39But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.
The man might understand more about Jesus after the cross and resurrection but the message to him from Jesus would be the same.
You cannot make a case for the idea that Jesus was telling him something different because he was a Jew or because Jesus had not yet died on the cross. The way of salvation was to put faith in Jesus and in this man's case Jesus saw something that he "lacked" concerning real faith that You don't see because you don't see into the heart like Jesus does.
Jesus might tell any one of us to do something and we better do it. If we draw back we are in danger of drawing back unto perdition.
Some people are going to need to give some things up because those things will cause them to fall away from serving the Lord. Jesus knows who these people are and what they need to give up. You don't.
Never tell someone they don't need to give up something to be saved because you can't know that. You don't know what is in their heart that they need to give up. Jesus does.
38Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.
39But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.
You say there was a covenant of law? If you think that it is not an eternal truth that forgiveness of sin is not because, at any time, man has earned forgiveness because of the law.
Under the old covenant man was told there were blessings in obedience and curses for disobedience, but at no time has scripture stated that forgiveness of sin or salvation was ever included in those blessings.
Again, God is eternal and the same God for Jews and gentiles alike. If scripture tells of an eternal truth in Genesis, it is the same eternal truth in the book of Revelation and all between.
Under the old covenant man was told there were blessings in obedience and curses for disobedience, but at no time has scripture stated that forgiveness of sin or salvation was ever included in those blessings.
Again, God is eternal and the same God for Jews and gentiles alike. If scripture tells of an eternal truth in Genesis, it is the same eternal truth in the book of Revelation and all between.