the Sabbath

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dlj57

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Deuteronomy 5:2 - The Lord our God made a covenant with us in Horeb. 3 The Lord did not make this covenant with our fathers, but with us, those who are here today, all of us who are alive.

Nehemiah 9:13 - "Then You came down on Mount Sinai and spoke with them from heaven; You gave them just ordinances and true laws, Good statutes and commandments. 14 So You made known to them Your holy sabbath, and laid down for them commandments, statutes and law, Through Your servant Moses."

Can't be much clearer than that.
I agree 100%
I like it a lot.
Amen, Blessings Danny
 

dlj57

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Jan 11, 2024
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Deuteronomy 5:2 - The Lord our God made a covenant with us in Horeb. 3 The Lord did not make this covenant with our fathers, but with us, those who are here today, all of us who are alive.

Nehemiah 9:13 - "Then You came down on Mount Sinai and spoke with them from heaven; You gave them just ordinances and true laws, Good statutes and commandments. 14 So You made known to them Your holy sabbath, and laid down for them commandments, statutes and law, Through Your servant Moses."

Can't be much clearer than that.
So what charge and which commandments, statutes and laws were God talking about in Genesis 26:5? It doesn't say the 10 commandments which were given through Moses.

If every man from Adam to Moses kept the Sabbath, why is the Hebrew word for the weekly Sabbath found in the Ten Commandments not found in the book of Genesis? Why is no one before Moses ever commanded to keep the Sabbath? Why are there no examples of anyone keeping the Sabbath before Moses? Why were the Patriarchs never instructed about the Sabbath but were instructed regarding: Offerings: Genesis 4:3-4, Altars Genesis 8:20, Priests: Genesis 14:18, Tithes: Genesis 14:20, Circumcision: Genesis 17:10, Marriage: Genesis 2:24 and Genesis 34:9. Why would God leave out the Sabbath command in Genesis if it was for everyone to keep before Moses?

The sabbath was not given to all the nations. It was given to the nation of Israel. Look at Deuteronomy 5:1-15, which gives the commandments to Israel. 2 The Lord our God made a covenant with us in Horeb. 3 The Lord did not make this covenant with our fathers, but with us, those who are here today, all of us who are alive. Did you see that?

Nehemiah 9:13 - "Then You came down on Mount Sinai and spoke with them from heaven; You gave them just ordinances and true laws, Good statutes and commandments. 14 So You made known to them Your holy sabbath, and laid down for them commandments, statutes and law, Through Your servant Moses."
Are you saying that there are two sets of Commandments?
Genesis 26:5 is talking about the Ten Commandments and Gods Law.
They are the same Commandments given to Moses later on Mount Si

Commandment #1 – Worship only YHWH:
Gen 22:5, 24:26, 48, 52 all describe worship of the true God of heaven, YHWH.
Gen 35:1-4 – Jacob instructs his whole household to eliminate all foreign gods
Commandment #2 – Idolatry prohibited
Gen 31:32-35 – Jacob clearly understood that idolatry was forbidden.
Gen 35:1-4 – Jacob instructs his whole household to eliminate all foreign gods
Commandment #3 –Cursing and taking the name of the LORD in vain prohibited
Job 1:5 – When these celebrations ended—sometimes after several days—Job would purify his children. He would get up early in the morning and offer a burnt offering for each of them. For Job said to himself, “Perhaps my children have sinned and have cursed God in their hearts.” This was Job’s regular practice.
Commandment #4 – Sabbath worship
Gen 2:1-3 – Thus the heavens and the earth were completed in all their vast array. And by the seventh day God had finished the work He had been doing; so on that day He rested from all His work. Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because on that day He rested from all the work of creation that He had accomplished.
Ex 5:5 - And Pharaoh said, “Behold, the people of the land are now many, and you make them rest [שָׁבַת sabbath] from their burdens!”
Ex 16 also records the incident with manna and that collecting manna on the seventh-day Sabbath was forbidden.
(In scripture rest means Sabbath Keeping) Look it up!
Commandment #5 – Respect for parents, elders and authority
Gen 28:6, 7 tells of the story of Jacob following his mother’s advice. Respect for parents is built into the very fabric of the patriarchal stories in Genesis.
Commandment #6 – Sanctity of Human life
Gen 4:8-12, 15 records Cain’s punishment for the sin of murder
Gen 4:23, 24 – Lamech realizes that he has murdered someone and will suffer consequences.
Gen 9:5, 6 records that murder was prohibited under the ancient Noahide covenant.
Commandment #7 – Adultery prohibited.
Gen 12:10-20, 20:1-17, 26:6-11 all record “adultery narratives” in which the patriarch is (correctly) chided for almost tricking a pagan king into committing adultery.
Gen 19 records the appalling events involving attempted pack-rape of the two angels
Gen 39:7-9 – Joseph calls Potiphar’s wife proposal “a great evil and sin against God”.
Gen 49:4 – Reuben is scalded for his sin of incest.
Gen 34 – the story of Dinah records a heinous incident involving her defilement (plus murder and lying)
Commandment #8 – Stealing prohibited and respect for property.
Gen 30:33 – Laban and Jacob discuss the problem of stealing of wages and property.
Gen 31:32-35 – Laban is angry about the sin of stealing the household gods.
Gen 44:9 – Joseph’s brother accused of stealing his divination cup.
Commandment #9 – Lying prohibited; insistence of honesty and integrity.
Gen 4 – the story of Cain being punished, among other things for not being honest with Abel and God in his statements.
Gen 12:10-20, 20:1-17, 26:6-11 all record “adultery narratives” in which the patriarch is (correctly) chided for lying to a pagan king about their marital status.
In the story of Jacob, he is pejoratively called Jacob = “deceiver”, Gen 27:36.
Gen 37:31-33 – Jacob rebuked for lying and deception.
Commandment #10 – Coveting prohibited.
Gen 3:6 – the woman is tricked by the serpent using the sin of covetousness.
Job 31:9, 10 – Job says he is innocent of coveting his neighbor's wife. Other Laws
Even the probation against eating blood is listed among the requirements in the Noahide covenant, Gen 9:4, 5.

Blessings, Danny
 

Dino246

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The old Mosaic law required a lot of observances and rituals and practices that no longer had to be observed once Crist died on the Cross because He was our sacrificial lamb. The 10 Commandments are mentioned and observed all throughout the NT. If they are part of the old Mosaic law, why are they referred to and we are told to obey in the NT? If they were done away with God would not have told us to obey the Law throughout the NT. Jesus himself said he did not come to abolish the Law but to fulfill it.

Look up the Sabbath at BibleTools.org

blessings, Danny
That’s an anachronistic argument. You would need to establish from Exodus that the Ten Commandments are not part of the Law. Good luck with that.
 

Soyeong

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The observance of the 7th day Sabbath was specifically given to Israel. After the New Covenant was established by Christ, the Sabbath days were deemed to be "shadows" of the reality of Christ, who is Lord of the Sabbath, and who said that the Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath.
The New Covenant as also specifically given to the house of Judah and the house of Israel and it involves God putting the Torah in our minds and writing it on our hearts (Jeremiah 31:31-33).

The foreshadows point to Christ and we should live in a way that point to him by continuing to observe rather than a way that points away from him. For example, in 1 Corinthian 5:6-8, Paul spoke in regard to how Passover foreshadowed Christ by drawing the connection of him being our Passover Lamb, however, instead of concluding that we no longer need to bother observing Passover, he concluded that we should therefore continue to observe it.

The Sabbath is a precious gift that God made for man, so we should delight in observing it rather than spurn it.

Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.
(Col 2:16,17)
In themselves those verses leave room for two possible scenarios:

1.) The Colossians were not keeping God's holy days, they were being judged by Jews because they were not keeping them, and Paul was encouraging them not to let any man judge for not keeping them.

2.) The Colossians were keeping God's holy days in obedience to His commands, they were being judged by pagans because they were keeping them, and Paul was encouraging them not to let any man judge them for keeping them.

In Colossians 2:20-23, Paul described the people who were judging the Colossians as promoting human traditions and precepts, self-made religion, asceticism, and severity to the body, which means that they were being judged by pagans and that the second scenario is the case.
 

Mem

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Deuteronomy 5:2 - The Lord our God made a covenant with us in Horeb. 3 The Lord did not make this covenant with our fathers, but with us, those who are here today, all of us who are alive.
I can't let go of the possibility that Deuteronomy 29-30 is speaking toward a commandment that was given to "our fathers", at Moab), apart from those given at Horeb. (Deuteronomy 29:1).

Deut 29:13 and so that He may establish you today as His people, and He may be your God as He promised you and as He swore to your fathers, to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.

The chapter continues elaborating on having no other gods, and Abraham was called out of idolatry (his father's business was making idols). And in the conversation with the rich young ruler, who "kept all these (Horeb commandments) since his youth" was told one thing you lack... paraphrasing, "leave all your idols and follow Me," which makes me think this is the only commandment given that will to life, all the blessing of the other, and ignoring it only leads to all the curses of the other, and this is the only one that actually "counts" as effective.

For example, Jesus tells us that if you do not hate your mother and your father... which seems to be at odds with the Ten's commandment, honor your mother and your father.
 

Soyeong

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The Ten Commandments are indeed for everyone, but the Sabbath commandment has not been ignored. The requirements of Sabbath observance have been transferred to the first day of the week (the Christian Sabbath). The Sabbath -- as observed by Christ -- was not only for rest but also for (1) worship (hence attendance at the synagogues) and good works (hence healings on Sabbath days). It is not the precise day pf the week, but the purpose of the Sabbath as far as God is concerned. Which is why Christ said that He is Lord of the Sabbath. He is the one who gets to decide.
In Deuteronomy 4:2, it is a sin to add to or subtract from God's law, we do not have the authority to make changes to it by saying that we are going to do something else instead of obeying what God commanded. In Mark 7:6-9, Jesus criticized the Pharisees as being hypocrites for setting aside the commands of God in order to establish their own traditions, so there is nothing wrong with someone following their own tradition of worshiping God on the 1st day in addition to obeying God's command to keep the 7th day holy, but they should not hypocritically set aside God's command to keep the 7th day holy in order to establish their own tradition. God could have commanded to keep a day holy once a week, but He commanded to keep the 7th day holy in memorial of when He rested after Creation.
 

Soyeong

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"What things soever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God." (Not just Israel)
So the whole world is under God's law and is ob ligated to obey it, which includes the command to keep the 7th day holy.

"Before faith we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith that afterward be revealed. Wherefor the law was our schoolmaster to bring us to Christ. But after faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster."
(Before we obtained faith in Jesus, we were kept under the law, but after being born again, we are no longer under the curse of the law as the Spirit now puts the Lord's commandments directly into our hearts and minds.)
Someone who disregarded everything that their schoolmaster taught them after they graduated would be missing the whole point of a schoolmaster. God's law brings us to Christ because it teaches us to know him, but does not bring us to Christ so that we can reject what he taught and go back to living in sin. In 1 John 3:4-10, those who do not practice righteousness in obedience to God's law are not born again, and in Romans 8:4-14, those who are born again of the Spirit are contrasted with those who have minds set on the flesh who are enemies of God who refuse to submit to His law.

"For this reason, Jesus is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance."
(Almost every sin of those who are under the new testament does not include the curse of death as they do under first testament, because the law of the Spirit of life is meant to impart life rather than death)

Abel's sacrifices pleased God, which were offered thousands of years before the law was revealed to Israel.

Now that we are indwelt by the Holy Spirit and are made into eternal living temples of God, something better than the sabbath is here in us and for us, every day is now holier than the sabbath and is a good day to worship the Lord in Spirit and truth and is a good day to do good!
In Ezekiel 36:26-27, it says that the Spirit has the role of leading us to obey God's law, not that the Spirit leads us to do something better than God's law. A day that is holy is a day that is set a apart and in order for a day to be set apart there needs to also be another day that it is set apart from, so to treat every day the same is to treat none of them as holy. If we did on every day what God wants His children to do on the Sabbath, then we would do no work, but God also wants us to work. In Psalms 119:142, God's law is truth, so obedience to it is the way to worship God in spirit and in truth.
 

Soyeong

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Jesus is our rest and we true Christians worship him every day . . .


Matthew 11:28
28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. ~KJV
Jesus set a perfect example for us to follow of how to walk in obedience to God's law and in Matthew 11:28-30, Jesus was inviting people to come to him for rest and to learn from him, not inviting people to rest from learning from him. Moreover, by Jesus saying that we would find rest for our souls, he was referencing Jeremiah 6:16-19, where God's law is described as the good way where we will find rest for our souls. This rest for our souls comes from having faith in God to rightly guid us, not from taking a break from following God's guidance. We should worship God on every day, which includes obeying God's command to keep the 7th day holy, and which does not include refusing to obey God's commands for how to worship Him.
 

mailmandan

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I'm not and Adventist, I'm just a Christian that believes in scripture, and believes that man has been greatly deceived.
"...and think to change times and laws..." (Daniel 7:25) Like changing the Sabbath.
Did you go to BibleTools.org and look up the Sabbath. It is a Christian site.
You might as well be an Adventist. Your obsession with the Sabbath and your same arguments are spot on with them.

How do you answer the question, "what must I do to be saved?"
 

Soyeong

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You're unable to do that. The Law makes one blind to the new covenant. You first have to renounce Sabbath keeping as a certain special day then you'll be able to see.
In Jeremiah 31:33, the New Covenant involves God putting His law in our minds and writing it on our hearts, so it is actually refusing to follow God's law that makes one blind to the New Covenant.

Sabbath used to be 1 day out of seven. Now Sabbath rest is 100% of the time.
All of God's righteous laws are eternal (Psalms 119:160), so they do not change. It is not the case that the Sabbath used to be one day out of seven or that it is 100% of the time, but that it is the command to keep the 7th day holy. In Hebrews 3:18-19, they did not enter into God's rest because of their disobedience/unbelief, in Ezekiel 20:13, it specifically mentions that they greatly profaned God's Sabbaths, and in Hebrews 4:9-11, there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God, we should rest from our work as God rested from His, and we should strive to enter into God's rest so that no one may fall away by the same sort of disobedience, so using entering into God's rest to justify the same sort of disobedience is the opposite of what was being sad.

Priests of God used to be from 1 tribe out of 12. Now priests are all God's children.
The Israelites were a kingdom of priests (Exodus 19:6).

In the old covenant, people were slaves to God because of failure. In the New covenant people are slaves to God by choice.
They chose to be part of the Mosaic Covenant.

In the old covenant Laws were written in stone and in books. It constrained the reader. In the new covenant the nature of man is changed in the presence of the Spirit of God. The standard for God and man is the same.
In Exodus 20:6, God wanted His people to love Him and obey His commandments so obedience to God has always been a matter of the heart.

You can't see that His commandments come now by the revelation of Spirit, moment by moment. That is what "being led by the Spirit" means. To be stuck in the book as another set of rules is to be stuck in neutral, or worse. Let the book confirm the Spirit.
In Ezekiel 36:26-27, the Spirit has the role of leading us to obey God's law. In Romans 8:4-7, those who walk in the Spirit are contrasted with those who have minds set on the flesh who are enemies of God who refuse to submit to His law. In Galatians 5:19-21, everything listed as works of the flesh that are against the Spirit are also against God's law while all of the fruits of the Spirit are in accordance with it. This straightforwardly makes sense because God's law was given by God and the Spirit is God.
 

Aaron56

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In Jeremiah 31:33, the New Covenant involves God putting His law in our minds and writing it on our hearts, so it is actually refusing to follow God's law that makes one blind to the New Covenant.


All of God's righteous laws are eternal (Psalms 119:160), so they do not change. It is not the case that the Sabbath used to be one day out of seven or that it is 100% of the time, but that it is the command to keep the 7th day holy. In Hebrews 3:18-19, they did not enter into God's rest because of their disobedience/unbelief, in Ezekiel 20:13, it specifically mentions that they greatly profaned God's Sabbaths, and in Hebrews 4:9-11, there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God, we should rest from our work as God rested from His, and we should strive to enter into God's rest so that no one may fall away by the same sort of disobedience, so using entering into God's rest to justify the same sort of disobedience is the opposite of what was being sad.


The Israelites were a kingdom of priests (Exodus 19:6).


They chose to be part of the Mosaic Covenant.


In Exodus 20:6, God wanted His people to love Him and obey His commandments so obedience to God has always been a matter of the heart.


In Ezekiel 36:26-27, the Spirit has the role of leading us to obey God's law. In Romans 8:4-7, those who walk in the Spirit are contrasted with those who have minds set on the flesh who are enemies of God who refuse to submit to His law. In Galatians 5:19-21, everything listed as works of the flesh that are against the Spirit are also against God's law while all of the fruits of the Spirit are in accordance with it. This straightforwardly makes sense because God's law was given by God and the Spirit is God.
You misspelled "I'm blind and I cannot understand things of the Spirit".
 

Cameron143

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You misspelled "I'm blind and I cannot understand things of the Spirit".
I like this answer for a number of reasons, but mostly because it fits the prerequisites for all good answers:
...be informed
...be brief
...be seated

Your answer had the added use of humor which was a bonus.
 

Soyeong

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You misspelled "I'm blind and I cannot understand things of the Spirit".
You are lacking self-awareness. In Acts 5:32, the Spirit has been given to those who obey God. In John 16:8, the Spirit has the role of leading us in truth, in Ezekiel 36:26-27, the Spirit has the role of leading us to obey God's law, and in Psalms 119:142, God law is truth. In John 16:8, the Spirit has the role of convicting us of sin, and in 1 John 3:4, sin is the transgression of God's law. In Romans 2:25-29, the way to recognize that that Gentiles have a circumcised heart is by observing their obedience to God's law and circumcision of the heart is a matter of the Spirit, which is in contrast with Acts 7:51-53, where those who have uncircumcised hearts resist the Spirit and do not obey God's law.
 

Aaron56

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You are lacking self-awareness. In Acts 5:32, the Spirit has been given to those who obey God. In John 16:8, the Spirit has the role of leading us in truth, in Ezekiel 36:26-27, the Spirit has the role of leading us to obey God's law, and in Psalms 119:142, God law is truth. In John 16:8, the Spirit has the role of convicting us of sin, and in 1 John 3:4, sin is the transgression of God's law. In Romans 2:25-29, the way to recognize that that Gentiles have a circumcised heart is by observing their obedience to God's law and circumcision of the heart is a matter of the Spirit, which is in contrast with Acts 7:51-53, where those who have uncircumcised hearts resist the Spirit and do not obey God's law.
Yeah, it’s still coming across as gibberish. Maybe try spellcheck?
 

Soyeong

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Yeah, it’s still coming across as gibberish. Maybe try spellcheck?
I didn't see any spelling errors. Is there a specific verse that I cited that you want me to clarify?
 

dlj57

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That’s an anachronistic argument. You would need to establish from Exodus that the Ten Commandments are not part of the Law. Good luck with that.
Good luck to you too, you haven't given any proof of the Commandments being done away with or changed, all I keep hearing is that God abolished one of the Commandments, but all the others are still in affect but at the same time calming that all are part of the old Mosaic Law. Can't have it both ways. God did not erase any part of the Commandments. That just makes no since that he just decided to get rid of one and keep the others. Are you saying that we are to work and whatever on the Sabbath and rest which means (Sabbath Keeping) on Sunday a day that God started his work. Or are you saying that the Sabbath has actually changed days which is not in the scriptures anywhere.
 

Soyeong

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So what charge and which commandments, statutes and laws were God talking about in Genesis 26:5? It doesn't say the 10 commandments which were given through Moses.

If every man from Adam to Moses kept the Sabbath, why is the Hebrew word for the weekly Sabbath found in the Ten Commandments not found in the book of Genesis? Why is no one before Moses ever commanded to keep the Sabbath? Why are there no examples of anyone keeping the Sabbath before Moses? Why were the Patriarchs never instructed about the Sabbath but were instructed regarding: Offerings: Genesis 4:3-4, Altars Genesis 8:20, Priests: Genesis 14:18, Tithes: Genesis 14:20, Circumcision: Genesis 17:10, Marriage: Genesis 2:24 and Genesis 34:9. Why would God leave out the Sabbath command in Genesis if it was for everyone to keep before Moses?

The sabbath was not given to all the nations. It was given to the nation of Israel. Look at Deuteronomy 5:1-15, which gives the commandments to Israel. 2 The Lord our God made a covenant with us in Horeb. 3 The Lord did not make this covenant with our fathers, but with us, those who are here today, all of us who are alive. Did you see that?

Nehemiah 9:13 - "Then You came down on Mount Sinai and spoke with them from heaven; You gave them just ordinances and true laws, Good statutes and commandments. 14 So You made known to them Your holy sabbath, and laid down for them commandments, statutes and law, Through Your servant Moses."
God's way is the way to practice aspects of His eternal character, such as in Genesis 18:19, God knew Abraham that he would teach his children and those of his household to walk in His way by doing righteousness and justice that the Lord may bring to him all that He has promised. In Exodus 33:13, Moses wanted God to be gracious to him by teaching him how to walk in His way that he might know Him, and in Psalms 103:7, God made His way known to Moses, so both Abraham and Moses walked in God's way and taught others to do that in accordance with the promise and with spreading the Gospel of the Kingdom. In Genesis 26:4-5, God will multiply Abraham's children as the stars in the heaven, to his children He will give all of these lands, and through his children all of the nations of the earth will be blessed because Abraham heard God's voice and guarded His commandments, His statutes, and His laws, and in Deuteronomy 30:16, if the children of Abraham will love God with all of their heart by walking in His way in obedience to His commandments, statutes, and laws, then they will live and multiply and God will bless them in the land that they go to posses, so the promise was made to Abraham and brought about because he walked in God's way in obedience to His law, he taught his children and those of his household to do that, and because they did that in obedience to the Mosaic Law.

If God made the New Covenant with us that He didn't make with the ancient Israelites and if the the New Covenant contains at least some of the same commandments as the Mosaic Covenant, then the fact that God made the Mosaic Covenant with the ancient Israelites that he hadn't made with their fathers does not show that any of the laws of the Mosaic Covenant were not previously given, and in fact there are many examples of God's laws being given prior to when they were given at Sinai without being told when God first commanded them. For example, in Genesis 4:7, God told Cain that sin was crouching at the door and he must master it, which implies that he already knew what sin is and must have already been given laws in that regard. In Genesis 7:2, Noah was told what to do with clean and unclean animals without being told hold to tell the difference, and in 8:20, he knew to offer a clean animal, so he must have already been given laws in that regard. In Genesis 39:9, Joseph knew that it was a sin to commit adultery.

So it is not safe to assume that none of the laws given at Sinai were not given prior to then, though it is also not save to assume that any law was given in the same form prior to when it was given at Sinai. For instance, God could give one person a list of 100 examples of how to act in accordance with His righteousness in various situations and then give a second person a different set of 100 examples of how to do that, so while different examples are used, they are all teaching the same sort of actions because they all have the same principle of righteousness is common. God's character is eternal, so we can expect that any two sets of instructions for how to act in accordance with His character are going to be very similar any any instructions that God has given for how to do that are eternally valid.
 

Dino246

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Good luck to you too, you haven't given any proof of the Commandments being done away with or changed...
You made the assertion that the ten commandments are not part of the Law. You need to support that assertion with evidence. Passages from the NT will not cut it.
 

dlj57

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Jan 11, 2024
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Yeah, it’s still coming across as gibberish. Maybe try spellcheck?

2 Corinthians 4:4
"In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them."
What does spellcheck have to do with the message? If you have a point of view post it otherwise keep your commentary to yourself.
"He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his Commandments, is a liar and the truth is not in him" (1 John 2:4)
" And in vain they worship Me, teaching as doctrines the commandments of men." (Matt 15:9)