The Sad Lives Of Legalists And Sinless Perfectionists

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Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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Sometimes it is difficult to see/abide the conflict but the other side of that is I admire how valiantly you all stand for what you believe and how well you know the Scriptures that inform your beliefs. The end result of me being witness to all this is I learn a little more. Thank you all :)
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
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wow, I should unblock jason. Nothing like watching the two most legalistic people in Christian Chat go at each other. it is like watching two kids fighting over something that they both have.. and both totally blind to the fact they both preach the same thing.

will have to watch it later, I have to take of for a bit But I need to make sure I have some popcorn when I get back!
yes, pretty funny stuff. one perfect person telling the other that they ain't perfect enough. wish folks would consider what perfect really means. one out of 100,000 wrong?? not perfect!!
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
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Well, for one, you have sinned just today because you falsely accused me and you did not even apologize about it. Nowhere did I say that a believer can be a child molester and still be saved or even struggle in being one and be saved and yet that is what you accused me of believing when I said no such thing. You merely made an assumption and ran off with something else I said and you did not ask to clarify if that is what I believed or not. You just falsely accused me with no apologies. I said there are greater sins that a believer will put away behind them. It is a very serious sin. However, what I would like to know is that if you think that a believer cannot be forgiven of sin if they are struggling with sin, then what do you make of the Tax Collector in Luke 18:9-14? Was he saved? If so, then how?

As for your statement of saying you do not commit sins unto death: So you are saying that you have not lied, not hated, not had a wrong thought, and you have helped the poor this week? When people talk to you, do they think your words are full of grace seasoned with salt?
hey Jason, stings a bit when someone takes everything you say and twists it around huh?? now you see how you treat others!!
 

JGIG

Senior Member
Aug 2, 2013
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Sheesh, Jason, what kind of 'Christians' do you hang out with?!

That list of 'acceptable' or 'unacceptable' sins folks can do while being saved? Where is that list???

-JGIG
1 John 5:16-18 says there are sins unto death and sins not unto death. Sins unto death would be the sins that Paul lists several times in the New Testament whereby he says that they which do such things will not inherit the Kingdom of God (Such as lying, murder, hate, adultery, theft, etc.). John also lists these sins and actually connects these types of sin as being in connection with DEATH (like Paul does at the end of Romans chapter 1). For John says that those who such sins (that he lists) in Revelation 21:8, will face the Second DEATH (i.e. the Lake of Fire). Sins that do not lead unto death are those sins that are confessed and forsaken (Proverbs 28:13). Sins that do not lead unto death would be hidden or secret faults (Psalm 19:12).
Again, Jason, your mixing eternal judgement/death with physical, earthly death.

16 If you see any brother or sister commit a sin that does not lead to death, you should pray and God will give them life. I refer to those whose sin does not lead to death.

There is a sin that leads to death. I am not saying that you should pray about that. 17 All wrongdoing is sin, and there is sin that does not lead to death. (from 1 Jn. 5)

The Greek for death in 1 John 5:16 is primarily death of the body - physical death. We know that that is the correct meaning because we know that sin - any sin - even just eating from the wrong tree - resulted in spiritual death/separation from God.

There are not some sins that result in spiritual death and some that don't.

1 John 5:17 and Romans 6:23 cannot both be true if 1 John 5:17 is talking about spiritual/eternal death:


17 All wrongdoing is sin, and there is sin that does not lead to death. (from 1 Jn. 5)

23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. (from Rom. 6)


Examples of sin not unto death [of the body] would be backbiting or slander; lying, cheating on one's taxes, etc. We're told to pray for them - let the Holy Spirit work His work in them.

Examples of sin unto death [of the body] for the believer would be drunk or impaired driving. The beating or abuse of a spouse and/or children. They might kill themselves or someone else. In those cases, just praying for them won't cut it - "I am not saying that you should pray about that" - we must step in to avoid the physical death of someone.

The 1 Jn. 5:16 passage is a pastoral passage to help keep the local Body safe in THIS life.

Again, you are not understanding the difference between earthly consequences and eternal judgement.

-JGIG
 

JGIG

Senior Member
Aug 2, 2013
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Proverbs 28:13 does not say that confession and turning from sin garners salvation.

1 John 1:9 - If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us ALL our unrighteousness except what happens in the future.

Oh wait, that last part after unrighteousness is not actually in that Scripture.

1 John 1:7 - But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin except for sins that we commit after we are cleansed, so it's not really ALL sin, but just SOME sin.

Oh wait, that last part after 'all sin' is not actually in that Scripture, either.

You're conforming Scripture to your belief system, Jason, not conforming your belief system to Scripture.

-JGIG
No, you are changing the Word of God to what you want it to say. Those words are indeed in Scripture.

"If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness." (1 John 1:9).

"But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin." (1 John 1:7).

"He that covereth his sins shall not prosper: but whoso confesseth and forsaketh them shall have mercy." (Proverbs 28:13).
Those parts that I added were to make them say what YOU say they say, not what they actually say.

Wow.

You just cannot see it, can you . . .

Jesus cleanses us from HOW MUCH unrighteousness?

The Blood of Christ cleanses us from HOW MUCH sin?

Confession and the turning away from sin gets you what? Mercy under the Old Covenant or salvation under the New Covenant?

Answer those questions . . . maybe it will help you see . . .

-JGIG
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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“If you are offering your gift at the altar and there remember that your brother has something against you, leave your gift there before the altar and go. First be reconciled to your brother, and then come and offer your gift”
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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Jesus cleanses us from HOW MUCH unrighteousness? The Blood of Christ cleanses us from HOW MUCH sin?
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.
 
K

KennethC

Guest
1 John 1:7-2:1 is about how to continue to walk in the faith to have the Lord's blood continue to cover our sins giving remission for them so that we can be presented spotless at judgment.

1 John 5:16-17 is not about physical death of the body, and we know this by applying the scriptures right before it speaking on asking/petitioning in prayer for those sins. It is confessed/repented of sins that do not lead to death (spiritual).

All sins that a person can commit can be forgiven if repented of, the one and only exception is blasphemy of the Holy Spirit.
We can not go and take and say if this person commits this sin at any time in life they can't be forgiven, and then say if another person commits another type of sin they can be forgiven. For the Lord clearly says all sins and blasphemy will be forgiven with the one exception.
 
Nov 26, 2011
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wish folks would consider what perfect really means. one out of 100,000 wrong?? not perfect!!

We find the term perfect attributed to the words of Jesus...

Mat 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

The original Greek word is...

teleios
From G5056; complete (in various applications of labor, growth, mental and moral character, etc.); neuter (as noun, with G3588) completeness: - of full age, man, perfect.

Clearly the context of this "complete" relates to an inward morality or an inward purity. Jesus stated...

Mat 5:20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Jesus then went on to say in regards to this exceptional righteousness that...

Mat 5:21 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:
Mat 5:22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

and...

Mat 5:27 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:
Mat 5:28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

Clearly Jesus is speaking of an inward righteousness and not merely and outward form like the Pharisees had.

Elsewhere Jesus, when addressing the religious authorities, states...

Mat 23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.
Mat 23:24 Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel.
Mat 23:25 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess.
Mat 23:26 Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also.
Mat 23:27 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness.
Mat 23:28 Even so ye also outwardly appear righteous unto men, but within ye are full of hypocrisy and iniquity.

Clearly the righteousness that Jesus was preaching was a righteousness which equates to heart purity. The admonishes the Pharisees to cleanse first that was within that the outside be clean also.

We find Paul teaching the same thing...

Rom 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

The righteousness of the law is established through faith.

Jesus said...

Mat_5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

Jesus also said...

Mar 12:30 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.
Mar 12:31 And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.

and...

Mat 22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
Mat 22:38 This is the first and great commandment.
Mat 22:39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Mat 22:40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

Thus...

Joh_15:12 This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you.


So when Paul wrote...
Rom 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

He understood that...

Gal 5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.
Gal 5:5 For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.
Gal 5:6 For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.
Faith works by love whereby faith establishes the law as opposed to voiding it.
Paul wrote...

Rom 13:8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
Rom 13:9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Rom 13:10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

Which is why...

Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
Rom 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
Rom 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

The righteousness of the law is fulfilled only in those whom walk after the Spirit by a faith that works by love.

This is why Jesus taught HEAR and DO. If one HEARS and DOES NOT then there is no possible way that they righteousness of the law will be fulfilled in them. They will simply not be purified by faith.

Act 15:9 And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.

Faith purifies the heart thus we are purified through our obedience to the truth.

1Pe 1:22 Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently:
1Pe 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

Which in essence is what "saved by grace through faith" actually means.

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

We are quickened to life inwardly when we abide in the Spirit of life in Jesus Christ.

Eph 2:5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)

Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

Grace teaches...

Tit 2:11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
Tit 2:12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;
Tit 2:13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;
Tit 2:14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

Those whom faithfully yield to that grace are redeemed from all iniquity and made pure. Hence faith purifies the heart and we are purified through obedience to the truth.



Satan has perverted the above message and replaced it with a fake religion many call Christianity. In the fake religion the death of Christ provides a provision which people are compelled to trust in. Thus instead of HEAR AND DO like Jesus taught, it is "confess and trust" like most of the churches teach.

HEAR AND DO is the dynamic which produces a total transformation through the power of God manifesting within our inner being.

CONFESS AND TRUST deceives people into thinking they have received a cloak for their wickedness. Thus transformation is replaced with a legal construct, a construct of a mere POSITION in Jesus as opposed to an ABIDING MANIFEST STATE.


When Jesus spoke of "be perfect" He was speaking in context of a total moral transformation of the heart whereby one becomes a slave of righteousness.

Today the general mantra is "nobody is perfect" and anyone who claims they are is a liar. "Sinless perfection" is often raised up as a strawman when the truth is that all God requires is an obedient heart.

If one's heart is pure having been cleansed of all iniquity then the faith of that one is reckoned as righteousness simply because faith works by love and love works no ill. The inner condition has been cleansed first exactly as Jesus taught.

Rom 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

A faith that has a walk.

Rom 4:12 And the father of circumcision to them who are not of the circumcision only, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham, which he had being yet uncircumcised.

A faith that obeys.

Heb 11:8 By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.

A faith that does the deeds of faith.

Joh 8:39 They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham.



Such a simple message. :)
 
Dec 12, 2013
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So what you are demonstrating here is that you have not understood that Jesus took the punishment for and the consequences of our sin, past present and future. It is NOT a license to sin in the future because when we are born again, that old man becames as dead as it can be eternally speaking. We cannot take that dead flesh into eternity with us and since it is dead eternally speaking it has no place in hell either. We are free from it. We are a new creation and we now are able to do things God's way. Because He first loved us we WANT to do things His way. Christ in us the hope of glory: THE hope; the ONLY hope.

As a new creation old things are passed away and all things have become new. New inheritance and a new eternal destiny. A new Father!!! Father in heaven. A new family, the children of God. How awesome is that?

Walk in the Spirit and ye shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. Cannot walk in the Spirit if you are not IN the Spirit, and you cannot be IN the Spirit unless you are born again.

Lay down those graveclothes of dead religion and let Jesus change you.
Amen to that and I agree......!
 
Dec 12, 2013
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Sheesh, Jason, what kind of 'Christians' do you hang out with?!

That list of 'acceptable' or 'unacceptable' sins folks can do while being saved? Where is that list???

-JGIG
All in his mind.......not realizing that to break the least of the commandments makes one guilty of the WHOLE LAW.......!
 
Dec 12, 2013
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You know Jason, I've noticed a pattern with you. You jump into every thread that promotes forgiveness of all sin through Christ, and the joy that results, and you bring the hammer down - hard. You seem to despise simple, saving faith. You bring with you your huge chest of works and law, and attempt to smother the flame of that simple joy.

Day after day, week after week, month after month you rip and tear into those who possess a quiet, confident faith in the salvation Christ offers. One that requires no works to receive or maintain. And when people start fighting back aggressively, using your own tactics against you, you act all "hurt" and "insulted" - demanding apologies all around.

And after you've destroyed a thread with your caustic legalism, you simply move on to the next, and the next, and the next. Leaving a proud trail of bitterness and frustration.

And yes - I truly believe you are proud of the chaos you cause. Thinking with your Pharisaical mind, that you're doing a wonderful service for Christ.

You rage against perceived slivers in the eyes of other, while completely ignoring the hypocritical forest of wood in your own.

You may now report me to a moderator for being "mean" to you.
Amen to that and I totally agree!
 
Jul 22, 2014
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Dear Skinski:

Well, I think we have been both a little abrupt with our words (for I cannot judge your standing with God in regards to your salvation in denying the Atonement because I need to still study if there are any consequences in denying it). So I do apologize for saying that. So while I still disagree with on the Atonement and while I disagree with you that a man who struggles with sin cannot be forgiven of their sin (because most types of sin and blasphemy can be forgiven) and because the Tax Collector was forgiven because he cried out to God to have mercy (Which is a contrast to the man who thought he was better than the Tax Collector righeously), I do want to offer you an olive branch of peace. I want you to understand that in no way do I condone or approve of any believer who intentionally sins with the thinking they can just repent of it later just so that they that they can go back to doing that sin again. However, what I want you to know is that David did repent of his sin of murder and he was forgiven, though.

What I do want to thank you for is that you helped me to see something new (even though we disagree). I see that sin cannot all be painted as being just one kind of sin (As if all sin is the same). Granted, I already knew not all sin was the same, but you helped me to see it even more on another level. This may not have been your intention, but I want to thank you anyways for helping me to see it. For I do realize that one cannot be a practicing axe murderer and be saved; Nor can they be an axe murderer who stumbles in murdering others on occasion and be saved, either. Surely there are greater sins that God will put away from a person when they accept Him as their Savior whereby they are born again spiritually. For even among unbelievers, murder, and child abuse are considered to be the worse kinds of evils today. However, most do not see this as being as great of crime as say when one lies, or when one lusts with their eyes. For surely, you would not be as upset with someone if they lied to someone you love versus say if they killed someone you loved. Yes, we are called to forgive even if they were to do such evils. But what I am saying is that we recongize that there are different levels of evil (Even though lying, adultery, hate, murder, idolatry, theft, and drunkenness are all sins that lead unto the Second Death, i.e. the Lake of Fire). For even Jesus said that if we make one of these little ones (children) to stumble into sin, it is better if a noose were to be hung about our neck and they were thrown into the sea instead. This sounds exceptionally serious. Why? Because children are innocent by the fact that they have not chosen between right and wrong yet. Hurting them, would be defiling that which is innocent and pure and hence why is such a serious crime that needed to be mentioned by our Lord Jesus Christ.

I also want to say that I do not abide in unrepenant sin as a way of life and there are days I do not sin. But I am learning more and more about those passages and teachings in God's Word so as to stop sinning for good those types of sins that lead unto spiritual death. I am praying more and more for God to help me and I do want to please my LORD for every second of every hour for the rest of my life (Especially out of the sight of men). For it is the time between me and God alone that I cherish so much. Do evil? Perish the thought. There is no excuse for sin and I do not make any excuses for it. What I do is confess my sin as per what John says in 1 John 2:1, 1 John 1:9. I turn from sin and ask the LORD not to be led into temptation. I hide God's Word in my heart so as not to sin against Him as David says, too. I strive to practice righteousness every chance I get so as to be a slave to righteousness at any given moment. I also quote Scripture so as to defeat the devil's temptation, as well. I also do not believe I will forever be a slave to sin. I believe 1 Peter 4:1 and Galatians 5:24. I know my God is faithful and He will do the "good work" in me to do what is good and pleasing in His sight (as I set out more and more to hear Him). God knows my heart and knows me better than I know myself. For if I did not think I could please the LORD, and be great for His Kingdom (By allowing Him to do the "Good work" in me), then I would have turned back in following Him along time ago. But do not put me God is not finished with me yet. For I want to lay my life down more for Him in wanting to do more of His good. For I believe that I will cruciify the affections and lusts. For I know that with man this is impossible. But with God, all things are possible. So you may condemn me for being open and honest with you here, but I am a man of God putting my hands to the plow and not wanting to look back. For I want to be persecuted for Christ Jesus more and more (Because I love so very much for what He has done for me).

To me, it is an honor to suffer for Him.

But be as it may, I want you to know I love you in Christ Jesus even though we disagree strongly on certain points.

Anyways, please be well.
And may God bless you.

With loving kindness to you in Christ Jesus,

Sincerely,

~ Jason.


...
 

wattie

Senior Member
Feb 24, 2009
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Have to admit, I'm still smiling over this post. Goodness..........

1) The "faith" James is speaking of is found in John 3:16, as well as in Ephesians 2:8-10, and many other places in Scripture. The "works" James is speaking of are the "works" that are a "fruit of salvation." Don't know how anyone could not understand that, but - I suppose anything is possible.

2) I can not believe you actually posted this comment about Corinthians, for your comment suggests that the Epistle to the church at Corinth is ONLY FOR that particular congregation. The end result being that 1 Corinthians, 2 Corinthians, 1 Timothy, 2 Timothy, and all other Epistles addressed to a particular church/congregation ARE NOT to be understood as being relevant to the Church today. The end result of such a belief is that these Epistles can be removed from the Bible, for (other than Historic value) they have no meaning for the Church today.

3) As for "unfaithful saved," I can only smile. Until I researched to find out where such a concept would come from, I was puzzled why anyone would believe such a thing, for it is surely an "oxymoron" if ever there was one. However, when I found the Websites that taught such a concept.............They are so off the wall that I won't even post the links to them here. Any who want to view them can do a "search" of [will unfaithful saved be in heaven].

4) As for "context," the Scriptures provided are not a mystery that need be revealed. They speak for themselves, and context is contained within them. It's not like I just posted a "one liner" Scripture........rather a passage of Scriptures......

I do not know which is more disturbing: Your ideology, or the fact that three people actually "liked" your post.
Okay - in James- the examples shown are examples of believers doing something with their already given faith. Abraham.. Rahab etc...

So -- if they are not exercising their faith- after being converted earlier-- their faith is 'lifeless'. 'Dead' in the sense of unusued.. dormant. Not that they never had any faith to begin with.

All the examples are of daily service. Not someone receiving eternal life.

2) I wasn't meaning that what was written to the Corinthians doesn't apply today.. but that all the scripture addressed to them is about a whole local church.. a congregation of saved, baptised believers. So you have that congregation struggling with some types of sin. Nothing about them actually having lost eternal life by their behaviour.

3) Are you assuming every saved person is faithful to Jesus?

If you have only saved people who have been faithful their whole life to Jesus in heaven.. that's works based salvation.

Verses in Corinthians speak of believers who are saved.. but their works are wood, stubble and hay-- get burned. Not the burning of hell.. but God's judgment on the believer.. missing rewards. Still saved.

4) by context.. I was meaning that the verses you posted DO contain the context within them.. but you hadn't elaborated on it.. such as what kind of faith James was speaking of.

Peace
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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I feel so honored to see these hearts for God...
 
Jul 22, 2014
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Those parts that I added were to make them say what YOU say they say, not what they actually say.

Wow.

You just cannot see it, can you . . .

Jesus cleanses us from HOW MUCH unrighteousness?

The Blood of Christ cleanses us from HOW MUCH sin?

Confession and the turning away from sin gets you what? Mercy under the Old Covenant or salvation under the New Covenant?

Answer those questions . . . maybe it will help you see . . .

-JGIG
Uh, no. John says we are to sin not. Then he says if we do sin we have an advocate that we can go to named Jesus Christ. For if we confess our sins he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins. Confessing sin is not a one time event whereby you can then sin all you want afterwards. John says to .... "sin not." But if you do... there is an advocate. Why? To confess your sin so as to be forgiven of sin. For he that confesses and forsakes sin shall have mercy (Proverbs 28:13). This again, is not a one time event (if you sin again). One still has to confess and forsake sin if it arises again in one's life. Confess sin = Forgive us of our sin. That is what 1 John 1:9 says. The cleansing of all unrighteousness is past tense and it does not include any future sin that you might plan on doing. For how can you confess future sin? You can't. So 1 John 1:9 is in view to present or past sin that needs to be confessed only.
 
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I have been doing some studyig on the Substitionary Atonement, and I have come to the conclusion that is at the very heart of the gospel.

"1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also you have received, and in which you stand;2 By which also you are saved, if you keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless you have believed in vain.3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:" (1 Corinthians 15:1-4).

So I must say that if someone denies this, they are also denying the gospel of our salvation. While I may care and love a person despite their lack of seeing what is in the Scriptures, I cannot in good conscience approve of or be in favor or fellowship with someone who denies God's good news of salvation. Yes, I will bear with one in love if I feel they want to hear the Scriptures on the Substitionary Atonement (So as to be a good Berean). But if I feel one is not wanting to see the truth, then it does no good to force feed them Scripture that they will just reject out of hand anyways.
 
J

jonl

Guest
Uh, no. John says we are to sin not. Then he says if we do sin we have an advocate that we can go to named Jesus Christ. For if we confess our sins he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins. Confessing sin is not a one time event whereby you can then sin all you want afterwards. John says to .... "sin not." But if you do... there is an advocate. Why? To confess your sin so as to be forgiven of sin. For he that confesses and forsakes sin shall have mercy (Proverbs 28:13). This again, is not a one time event (if you sin again). One still has to confess and forsake sin if it arises again in one's life. Confess sin = Forgive us of our sin. That is what 1 John 1:9 says. The cleansing of all unrighteousness is past tense and it does not include any future sin that you might plan on doing. For how can you confess future sin? You can't. So 1 John 1:9 is in view to present or past sin that needs to be confessed only.
I'm new here and read just a few posts, but I tend to agree with I John 1:9 and this post -- "one still has to confess and forsake sin if it arises in one's life."
 
Feb 7, 2015
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I'm new here and read just a few posts, but I tend to agree with I John 1:9 and this post -- "one still has to confess and forsake sin if it arises in one's life."
Yes, "confess" it, as in recognizing it and owning up to God to our responsibility to knock it off. But is that running to a priest or standing up in front of the congregation after doing "the walk of shame", baring your soul to all and sundry?